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Do Gar Forman & John Paxson deserve to keep their jobs?

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Do Gar Forman & John Paxson deserve to keep their jobs?

1). No they both should be fired.
59
58%
2). Yes they both should keep their jobs.
11
11%
3). Only Gar should keep his job.
3
3%
4). Only Paxson should keep his job.
28
28%
 
Total votes: 101

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Re: Do Gar Forman & John Paxson deserve to keep their jobs? 

Post#61 » by Am2626 » Mon Aug 5, 2019 3:35 am

Michael Jackson wrote:
transplant wrote:
League Circles wrote:I truly do not understand how anyone could hate or blame Gar particularly.

The closest thing there is to a real blemish on his record is the scandal at New Mexico and Jimmy Butler's trainers vague, non specific criticism.

I've never thought Gar was in charge and allowed to make important decisions alone. I've never felt that Paxson essentially became nothing more than a consultant while Gar made draft picks and trades.

Thus, I choose to give all credit and blame to Paxson since 2003.

EDIT: it has also been clear that he was a big Hoiberg advocate, certainly at least until he was hired, which is definitely bad, and that it was his idea to let Ron Adams go, which is good IMO.

Other than Adams and Fred, I'm not really sure we have any evidence who Gar liked or didn't like and what deals he wanted to do.

IIRC, one of our insiders basically painted the personality types as Paxson getting high on his own picks, whereas Gar just wanted to "win" trades, and that these different, but concurrent reasons were why we didn't do many trades.

I'm not really trying to defend Gar because I truly don't think we know much about him.

Pax, on the other hand, IMO, pretty much for sure wanted to draft every player we have drafted since 2003 IMO.

When Forman was more of the public face of the Bulls, the general reaction was that he was BSing you. I’ve seldom seen a less believable public spokesperson. He then was removed from the public contact and we were told that he was handling agent relations. This is when we began hearing reports that agents didn’t trust the Bulls’ FO. Hmm.

Since I don’t know what he does now, it’s hard to criticize, but I can’t help but believe that the Bulls could better spend the money.


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Gar more or less lost his job. Michael likes him so he has a position but he lost his real job and does something where he collects a pay check. Every last move he made was a bad one.


Not a bad situation at all for him. He basically gets paid to do nothing. How many people get to mess up their jobs and then still continue to get paid and have less work to do? Please sign me up for that gig!

I will give it to GarPax that by building so much loyalty with the Reinsdorf’s they get the privilege of continuing to keep their jobs. That has to be their biggest accomplishments in their jobs.
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Re: Do Gar Forman & John Paxson deserve to keep their jobs? 

Post#62 » by Onibuh » Mon Aug 5, 2019 9:32 am

16 years, no final apperance and they have had their Chance but never got the Team over to take it all.

Both should have been fired, the lack of star additons over all that time is just a reason too much to overlook. I'd have fired them before the rebuild, now makes no sense. You have to wait this year and possible next to see how good their rebuild worked out.
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Re: Do Gar Forman & John Paxson deserve to keep their jobs? 

Post#63 » by dougthonus » Mon Aug 5, 2019 11:48 am

transplant wrote:Sorry, I wasn't specific enough. I was asking how you thought Forman performed as the management spokesperson.


I think fans hate him as a PR guy. Paxson comes off as very honest and open whereas Gar comes off as the guy who just gives you the cliche company line.
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Re: Do Gar Forman & John Paxson deserve to keep their jobs? 

Post#64 » by League Circles » Mon Aug 5, 2019 12:14 pm

I think ultimately the value of Gar's poker face became outweighed by how much fans (and thus) media disliked him.
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Re: Do Gar Forman & John Paxson deserve to keep their jobs? 

Post#65 » by League Circles » Mon Aug 5, 2019 12:16 pm

Am2626 wrote:
Michael Jackson wrote:
transplant wrote:When Forman was more of the public face of the Bulls, the general reaction was that he was BSing you. I’ve seldom seen a less believable public spokesperson. He then was removed from the public contact and we were told that he was handling agent relations. This is when we began hearing reports that agents didn’t trust the Bulls’ FO. Hmm.

Since I don’t know what he does now, it’s hard to criticize, but I can’t help but believe that the Bulls could better spend the money.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app


Gar more or less lost his job. Michael likes him so he has a position but he lost his real job and does something where he collects a pay check. Every last move he made was a bad one.


Not a bad situation at all for him. He basically gets paid to do nothing. How many people get to mess up their jobs and then still continue to get paid and have less work to do? Please sign me up for that gig!

I will give it to GarPax that by building so much loyalty with the Reinsdorf’s they get the privilege of continuing to keep their jobs. That has to be their biggest accomplishments in their jobs.

How many people who get voted on by their peers as the best multiple times, objectively compete at an above average product level, and make their employer a ton of money are said to mess up their job?

Gar is scouting I believe now. That's doing nothing?
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Re: Do Gar Forman & John Paxson deserve to keep their jobs? 

Post#66 » by ATRAIN53 » Mon Aug 5, 2019 1:49 pm

Yes because technically their primary function is to turn a profit with the team.

We're nowhere near the cap + were top 2 in attendance and a top grossing NBA team.

They don't have to win.
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Re: Do Gar Forman & John Paxson deserve to keep their jobs? 

Post#67 » by ChiCitySPORTS#1 » Mon Aug 5, 2019 2:12 pm

You can make a solid argument, that objectively, they actually have done a good job. But their reputation has become toxic and that has gone beyond our fan base -- it's a well known thing within NBA circles/fans. That in itself could be and probably is detrimental to the team and probably worth getting rid of them. Optics are important in a relationship driven league.
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Re: Do Gar Forman & John Paxson deserve to keep their jobs? 

Post#68 » by Wingy » Tue Aug 6, 2019 2:09 am

Surprised by how much love Pax still gets. Hitting that 3 means the world to my youthful memories...but, damn.

Dude lost the spirit to do the full job years ago, and that half-ass desire got us Gar.

Just clean house. Please sell the team to someone whose passion is basketball, and start over w/ownership / FO management.
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Re: Do Gar Forman & John Paxson deserve to keep their jobs? 

Post#69 » by HomoSapien » Tue Aug 6, 2019 2:39 pm

Yikes, can’t believe only 59% think they should be fired.
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Re: Do Gar Forman & John Paxson deserve to keep their jobs? 

Post#70 » by Peelboy » Tue Aug 6, 2019 2:40 pm

FWLIW, I always thought Gar's bread and butter was scouting, and his Achilles heel was interpersonal relations. So absent any insider knowledge, I have assumed that the past couple years with Pax stepping back to the forefront, Gar was back focused on scouting, and I think the generally excellent drafting has continued which would support that in that area, things haven't really changed (unless you think that was Pax which I can't dispute or confirm).

Overall though, I would agree with those who say their record is more hit than miss. I'd put them in the top 3d of GMs, they draft better than most, they attract FA better than most (yes they have missed on many of the top FAs - but so have all but say 5 teams - LA, NJ, GS, MIA, HOU, even successful teams like Boston have settled for 2d tier options like Horford/Hayward and lost Kyrie). They have run through coaches, but generally at or above the average lifespan (and for every terrible coach, they had Skiles or Thibs who were solid to very good). Obviously the relations with coaches has been an issue, but it hasn't prevented them from poaching some pretty well-regarded ACs.

Now if you think being top third but never achieving the success of a finals or CF is worthy of firing, I can see it (I tend to disagree). But it's pretty clearly not the case that they are bottom of the barrel among FOs.
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Re: Do Gar Forman & John Paxson deserve to keep their jobs? 

Post#71 » by The Box Office » Wed Aug 7, 2019 2:03 am

The only thing I like about John Paxson is that he didn't draft Spencer Hawes, Harry Giles, Michael Porter Jr., and Darius Garland when the RealGM Bulls fans overwhelmingly wanted them like sheep without doing much research and scrutiny.

GarPax still has to go though. No doubts about that.
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Re: Do Gar Forman & John Paxson deserve to keep their jobs? 

Post#72 » by Leslie Forman » Wed Aug 7, 2019 3:22 am

The Box Office wrote:The only thing I like about John Paxson is that he didn't draft Spencer Hawes, Harry Giles, Michael Porter Jr., and Darius Garland when the RealGM Bulls fans overwhelmingly wanted them like sheep without doing much research and scrutiny.

GarPax still has to go though. No doubts about that.

TBF, if I'm not mistaken, the board would have picked Andre Iguodala and LaMarcus Aldridge. That alone would have basically guaranteed 50+ wins a year for almost a decade straight in the East.
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Re: Do Gar Forman & John Paxson deserve to keep their jobs? 

Post#73 » by The Senator » Wed Aug 7, 2019 6:30 am

I can say for sure that there wasn't an overwhelming consensus that wanted Porter or Garland. Porter's injury issues were a disqualifying factor, with the Bulls needing to fill so many spots on the starting lineup, while Garland was criticized roundly for having potential injury issues with his knee, not wanting another Rose, and for lacking defensive qualities. I know I preferred Culver, Hunter or Hachimura within realistic projected possibilities.
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Re: Do Gar Forman & John Paxson deserve to keep their jobs? 

Post#74 » by Ferulci » Wed Aug 7, 2019 10:44 pm

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Glad to see that most on the board is in agreement with this.
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Re: Do Gar Forman & John Paxson deserve to keep their jobs? 

Post#75 » by The Box Office » Sat Aug 10, 2019 3:52 am

Leslie Forman wrote:
The Box Office wrote:The only thing I like about John Paxson is that he didn't draft Spencer Hawes, Harry Giles, Michael Porter Jr., and Darius Garland when the RealGM Bulls fans overwhelmingly wanted them like sheep without doing much research and scrutiny.

GarPax still has to go though. No doubts about that.

TBF, if I'm not mistaken, the board would have picked Andre Iguodala and LaMarcus Aldridge. That alone would have basically guaranteed 50+ wins a year for almost a decade straight in the East.


I wanted Andre Iguodala and Aldridge, too. That's fine because we wouldn't have gotten D.Rose, Thibs, and Noah if we picked Iggy and Aldridge. We definitely wouldn't sniff the Eastern Conference Finals with Iggy and Aldridge. I'm good.
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Re: Do Gar Forman & John Paxson deserve to keep their jobs? 

Post#76 » by Am2626 » Sat Aug 10, 2019 8:31 pm

The Box Office wrote:
Leslie Forman wrote:
The Box Office wrote:The only thing I like about John Paxson is that he didn't draft Spencer Hawes, Harry Giles, Michael Porter Jr., and Darius Garland when the RealGM Bulls fans overwhelmingly wanted them like sheep without doing much research and scrutiny.

GarPax still has to go though. No doubts about that.

TBF, if I'm not mistaken, the board would have picked Andre Iguodala and LaMarcus Aldridge. That alone would have basically guaranteed 50+ wins a year for almost a decade straight in the East.


I wanted Andre Iguodala and Aldridge, too. That's fine because we wouldn't have gotten D.Rose, Thibs, and Noah if we picked Iggy and Aldridge. We definitely wouldn't sniff the Eastern Conference Finals with Iggy and Aldridge. I'm good.


Draft luck and GarPax incompetence got you what you wanted which ended up being 1 ECF appearance.
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Re: Do Gar Forman & John Paxson deserve to keep their jobs? 

Post#77 » by Chi » Sat Aug 10, 2019 8:52 pm

Maybe Pax... Definitely not Gar...
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Re: Do Gar Forman & John Paxson deserve to keep their jobs? 

Post#78 » by Jimako10 » Sun Aug 11, 2019 6:19 pm

HomoSapien wrote:Yikes, can’t believe only 59% think they should be fired.


Fans have a soft spot for Paxson. The blame, whether warranted or not, is mostly falling on Gar. If you combine the 2 categories, that's 86% that think Gar should go.
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Re: Do Gar Forman & John Paxson deserve to keep their jobs? 

Post#79 » by TheFinishSniper » Sun Aug 11, 2019 8:04 pm

Jimako10 wrote:
HomoSapien wrote:Yikes, can’t believe only 59% think they should be fired.


Fans have a soft spot for Paxson. The blame, whether warranted or not, is mostly falling on Gar. If you combine the 2 categories, that's 86% that think Gar should go.

Still doesnt explain 14% of approval. Do Bulls fans hate this franchise?
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Re: Do Gar Forman & John Paxson deserve to keep their jobs? 

Post#80 » by The Box Office » Mon Aug 12, 2019 2:20 am

Am2626 wrote:
The Box Office wrote:
Leslie Forman wrote:TBF, if I'm not mistaken, the board would have picked Andre Iguodala and LaMarcus Aldridge. That alone would have basically guaranteed 50+ wins a year for almost a decade straight in the East.


I wanted Andre Iguodala and Aldridge, too. That's fine because we wouldn't have gotten D.Rose, Thibs, and Noah if we picked Iggy and Aldridge. We definitely wouldn't sniff the Eastern Conference Finals with Iggy and Aldridge. I'm good.


Draft luck and GarPax incompetence got you what you wanted which ended up being 1 ECF appearance.


Uhhh you're telling me what I already knew over 7 years ago with GarPax. Iggy and Aldridge wouldn't get us to the ECF. Look how those dudes turned out. They're definitely not superstars. Iggy finally shined when he wasn't one of the key guys in Golden State. That took way too long and under the right circumstances.

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