Do people want the Reinsdorf’s to sell the Bulls?

[League Circles]

I don't know why one would do mental gymnastics to paint the Bulls as not an incredible financial model. They're third in operating income at a level that is about twice league average. Trying to frame it in dollars/household is of very questionable relevance IMO..

That's completely silly. If Apple was making twice as much profit as the hair salon down the street, would you trumpet Apple's excellent management staff or would you say "You know, a multinational corporation with billions of customers should be making a whole lot more than twice as much as a hair salon."?

Number of customers and multinational status and dollars/household don't put food on the table, err, I mean gold in the vaults.

Money (investment) competes against money (investment), not against more limited intra-industry investments.

But if you must limit it to NBA team owners, the Bulls are raking in at least the third highest profits (maybe more if you could figure out how to factor in CSN stakes by JR, etc), on perhaps the smallest capital investment. That's unambiguously, unequivocally phenomenal. You're ignoring factors such as market saturation, competing entertainment options, arbitrary TV market numbers, etc.

[TyrusRose2425]

Joe Mansueto please

[Red Larrivee]

Yes

ASAP

for as much $$ as possible so whoever buys it pays top price and has to re-invest in the team and stops living of MJ's legacy

think Ballmer
He's not living off the Elton Brand legacy in LA

The Clippers have no legacy. Ballmer replaced an arrogant racist, which obviously isn't difficult to do.

Whoever owns the Bulls will always be living off Jordan's legacy. The Bulls are an established big market and international brand. Reinsdorf has reinvested in the team; he's just been picky about paying luxury tax for a team just to pay it. As Doug noted, this philosophy is becoming normal for owners given the harsher penalties.

Ultimately, Reinsdorf is not one of the best owners in the NBA and he's not one of the worst. I would love to have a better owner, but I could just as easily see a situation where I would prefer Reinsdorf over someone else. I do not think he's standing in the way of the Bulls winning another title, though there are obviously things that can be better.

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[Am2626]

1. Maybe what worked for the Blackhawks will work for the Bulls - but wishing death to someone is not what we should do and that's clearly not an Option.
2. unknown new owner > Reinsdorf. With Reindorf you know exactly what you get and that's not what a market like Chicago Needs.

That won’t work because Michael Reinsdorf is a poor mans version of his father. I can actually see things getting worse under him.

He is no Rocky Wirtz. Maybe Michael Reinsdorf’s son will change things. To bad we won’t know that for another 30 years.

[Am2626]

Yes

ASAP

for as much $$ as possible so whoever buys it pays top price and has to re-invest in the team and stops living of MJ's legacy

think Ballmer
He's not living off the Elton Brand legacy in LA

The Clippers have no legacy. Ballmer replaced an arrogant racist, which obviously isn't difficult to do.

Whoever owns the Bulls will always be living off Jordan's legacy. The Bulls are an established big market and international brand. Reinsdorf has reinvested in the team; he's just been picky about paying luxury tax for a team just to pay it. As Doug noted, this philosophy is becoming normal for owners given the harsher penalties.

Ultimately, Reinsdorf is not one of the best owners in the NBA and he's not one of the worst. I would love to have a better owner, but I could just as easily see a situation where I would prefer Reinsdorf over someone else. I do not think he's standing in the way of the Bulls winning another title, though there are obviously things that can be better.

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In the sense of his insistence of standing by and supporting GarPax no matter what they do I would argue that he is definitely standing in the way another Bulls championship. It’s his job to put the right people in place but he is too loyal to the wrong people.

[Red Larrivee]

Yes

ASAP

for as much $$ as possible so whoever buys it pays top price and has to re-invest in the team and stops living of MJ's legacy

think Ballmer
He's not living off the Elton Brand legacy in LA

The Clippers have no legacy. Ballmer replaced an arrogant racist, which obviously isn't difficult to do.

Whoever owns the Bulls will always be living off Jordan's legacy. The Bulls are an established big market and international brand. Reinsdorf has reinvested in the team; he's just been picky about paying luxury tax for a team just to pay it. As Doug noted, this philosophy is becoming normal for owners given the harsher penalties.

Ultimately, Reinsdorf is not one of the best owners in the NBA and he's not one of the worst. I would love to have a better owner, but I could just as easily see a situation where I would prefer Reinsdorf over someone else. I do not think he's standing in the way of the Bulls winning another title, though there are obviously things that can be better.

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In the sense of his insistence of standing by and supporting GarPax no matter what they do I would argue that he is definitely standing in the way another Bulls championship. It’s his job to put the right people in place but he is too loyal to the wrong people.

There's nothing to suggest a new owner would put better people in place. I wouldn't object to it, but I disagree with the logic that everything automatically is fixed because Reinsdorf sells the team. If I considered him a James Dolan type of owner, then I could see it. To me, Reinsdorf is a typical team owner.

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[nomorezorro]

reinsdorf isn't sarver-level bad but he's probably just one rung above the bottom tier, right? i think you're lucky if you find an owner who isn't luxury tax-avoidant in this day and age, but what are the odds you tick ALL these boxes again (or somehow end up with something worse)?

-cheap on players
-cheap on other basketball personnel
-generally disinterested in basketball as a sport
-loyal to top-level employees to a degree beyond what they've earned

i guess the question is whether you would have a bumbling but seemingly well-intentioned owner (leonisis, honestly maybe even dolan at this point) or an owner who knows basic competence is good for business but shows no motivation to move beyond that point

[Red Larrivee]

reinsdorf isn't sarver-level bad but he's probably just one rung above the bottom tier, right? i think you're lucky if you find an owner who isn't luxury tax-avoidant in this day and age, but what are the odds you tick ALL these boxes again (or somehow end up with something worse)?

-cheap on players
-cheap on other basketball personnel
-generally disinterested in basketball as a sport
-loyal to top-level employees to a degree beyond what they've earned

i guess the question is whether you would have a bumbling but seemingly well-intentioned owner (leonisis, honestly maybe even dolan at this point) or an owner who knows basic competence is good for business but shows no motivation to move beyond that point

I mean, if we consider James Dolan an upgrade over Reinsdorf, then I don't even know what the criteria is. It sounds like some people mainly just want an owner who will spend a ton of money even if it doesn't result in a great product. Dolan will write whatever amount you want on a check, but he's an awful owner.

Owners I consider worse:

Dolan
Jordan
Vivek
Taylor
Gilbert
Sarver

After that, I think you have a fairly large middle class of "meh" owners and Reinsdorf certainly wouldn't be the worst of them. I just don't see Reinsdorf's flaws as things that a typical owner would do much differently. It'd be nice to have an amazing owner though.


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[AshyLarrysDiaper]

The best thing you can say for Reinsdorf is he doesn't meddle. He doesn't barge into the draft war room with his short list of prospects. He doesn't insist on he Bulls offering a contract to a player he once had a beer with.

Beyond not getting in the way, I don't see what value the Reinsdorfs bring. I'd easily roll the dice on a replacement. The upside is much higher than the downside is low.

[Am2626]

reinsdorf isn't sarver-level bad but he's probably just one rung above the bottom tier, right? i think you're lucky if you find an owner who isn't luxury tax-avoidant in this day and age, but what are the odds you tick ALL these boxes again (or somehow end up with something worse)?

-cheap on players
-cheap on other basketball personnel
-generally disinterested in basketball as a sport
-loyal to top-level employees to a degree beyond what they've earned

i guess the question is whether you would have a bumbling but seemingly well-intentioned owner (leonisis, honestly maybe even dolan at this point) or an owner who knows basic competence is good for business but shows no motivation to move beyond that point

I mean, if we consider James Dolan an upgrade over Reinsdorf, then I don't even know what the criteria is. It sounds like some people mainly just want an owner who will spend a ton of money even if it doesn't result in a great product. Dolan will write whatever amount you want on a check, but he's an awful owner.

Owners I consider worse:

Dolan
Jordan
Vivek
Taylor
Gilbert
Sarver

After that, I think you have a fairly large middle class of "meh" owners and Reinsdorf certainly wouldn't be the worst of them. I just don't see Reinsdorf's flaws as things that a typical owner would do much differently. It'd be nice to have an amazing owner though.


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Isn’t it the FO job to use the money ownership gives to make the right coaching and player personnel decisions? Having an owner not afraid to spend money is a luxury provided that he has a good FO to put that money to good use.

[League Circles]

reinsdorf isn't sarver-level bad but he's probably just one rung above the bottom tier, right? i think you're lucky if you find an owner who isn't luxury tax-avoidant in this day and age, but what are the odds you tick ALL these boxes again (or somehow end up with something worse)?

-cheap on players
-cheap on other basketball personnel
-generally disinterested in basketball as a sport
-loyal to top-level employees to a degree beyond what they've earned

i guess the question is whether you would have a bumbling but seemingly well-intentioned owner (leonisis, honestly maybe even dolan at this point) or an owner who knows basic competence is good for business but shows no motivation to move beyond that point

I really don't think there is any evidence to suggest that JR has been cheap on players, or on other basketball personnel, and certainly nothing to suggest he's disinterested in basketball as a sport.

[Michael Jackson]

The best thing you can say for Reinsdorf is he doesn't meddle. He doesn't barge into the draft war room with his short list of prospects. He doesn't insist on he Bulls offering a contract to a player he once had a beer with.

Beyond not getting in the way, I don't see what value the Reinsdorfs bring. I'd easily roll the dice on a replacement. The upside is much higher than the downside is low.

Mostly this. He doesn’t get in the way. Problem is the spots where he should have gotten in the way (Jerry and Phil or Kenny and Ozzie) he doesn’t either. It’s a net negative. He isn’t bad. He really isn’t as cheap as people make him out to be he just is also not very good. Many other owners would do better I think but I honestly don’t think an owner needs to do much but higher a good front office.

[The Explorer]

reinsdorf isn't sarver-level bad but he's probably just one rung above the bottom tier, right? i think you're lucky if you find an owner who isn't luxury tax-avoidant in this day and age, but what are the odds you tick ALL these boxes again (or somehow end up with something worse)?

-cheap on players
-cheap on other basketball personnel
-generally disinterested in basketball as a sport
-loyal to top-level employees to a degree beyond what they've earned

i guess the question is whether you would have a bumbling but seemingly well-intentioned owner (leonisis, honestly maybe even dolan at this point) or an owner who knows basic competence is good for business but shows no motivation to move beyond that point

I really don't think there is any evidence to suggest that JR has been cheap on players, or on other basketball personnel, and certainly nothing to suggest he's disinterested in basketball as a sport.

Ben Gordon

Also these quotes don't show he's outright disinterested, but it does show he's not fully invested in Chicago Bulls basketball.

"Jerry Reinsdorf has always said that he'd trade all his Bulls championship rings for one World Series ring. I don't know if he really would, but everyone who works here knows this: that what he wants most in his professional life is to win the World Series."

Asked before the game to compare the Bulls titles to a potential Sox championship, Reinsdorf didn't hesitate. "It's different. This is bigger. Basketball and Jordan were as big as basketball could get. I don't think the NBA Finals are huge normally, but with Jordan they were. But this is bigger. This gets more attention, more excitement. This is baseball."

"In my mind, there's baseball, and then there are all the other sports," the Sox chairman said Tuesday from his winter home in Arizona. "That doesn't mean I didn't enjoy the NBA titles, but . . . ."

"Basketball is a game. Baseball is a religion. Baseball is American"

Reinsdorf choked up, hugged Konerko, then turned away. Later, Reinsdorf told the audience that after 25 years of team ownership, the celebration made everything worthwhile.

"I never imagined it could be so good," he said. "But this is absolutely the most fantastic day of my life."

Receiving the ball, he said, was "the most emotional moment of my life."

[League Circles]

I think people are REALLY missing the appeal in 2019 of buying an NBA team. The entire appeal practically is that you get to be the ultimate decision maker. And if you are a billionaire you tend to get what you want so if you want to make decisions regarding an NBA franchise and it's roster you get that. The problem is is a someone who made billions of dollars likely doing something completely unrelated the basketball you probably actually don't know basketball even as well as any assistant coach in the league.

I just find it difficult to believe that anyone with real money would buy an NBA franchise in 2019 and then be nearly as hands off as JR has been historically. They are driving up these franchise values not based on any Financial metrics whatsoever and not because they like sports but because they want to call the shots on an NBA franchise and the only way to do it as a basketball outsider is to buy a team.

Can a single one of you actually claimed that if you had billions of dollars and bought the Chicago Bulls that you would just hire a front office and let them do whatever they want? Hell no. You would make the final call on all trades and draft and contracts. You know you would.

[League Circles]

reinsdorf isn't sarver-level bad but he's probably just one rung above the bottom tier, right? i think you're lucky if you find an owner who isn't luxury tax-avoidant in this day and age, but what are the odds you tick ALL these boxes again (or somehow end up with something worse)?

-cheap on players
-cheap on other basketball personnel
-generally disinterested in basketball as a sport
-loyal to top-level employees to a degree beyond what they've earned

i guess the question is whether you would have a bumbling but seemingly well-intentioned owner (leonisis, honestly maybe even dolan at this point) or an owner who knows basic competence is good for business but shows no motivation to move beyond that point

I really don't think there is any evidence to suggest that JR has been cheap on players, or on other basketball personnel, and certainly nothing to suggest he's disinterested in basketball as a sport.

Ben Gordon

Also these quotes don't show he's outright disinterested, but it does show he's not fully invested in Chicago Bulls basketball.

"Jerry Reinsdorf has always said that he'd trade all his Bulls championship rings for one World Series ring. I don't know if he really would, but everyone who works here knows this: that what he wants most in his professional life is to win the World Series."

Asked before the game to compare the Bulls titles to a potential Sox championship, Reinsdorf didn't hesitate. "It's different. This is bigger. Basketball and Jordan were as big as basketball could get. I don't think the NBA Finals are huge normally, but with Jordan they were. But this is bigger. This gets more attention, more excitement. This is baseball."

"In my mind, there's baseball, and then there are all the other sports," the Sox chairman said Tuesday from his winter home in Arizona. "That doesn't mean I didn't enjoy the NBA titles, but . . . ."

"Basketball is a game. Baseball is a religion. Baseball is American"

Reinsdorf choked up, hugged Konerko, then turned away. Later, Reinsdorf told the audience that after 25 years of team ownership, the celebration made everything worthwhile.

"I never imagined it could be so good," he said. "But this is absolutely the most fantastic day of my life."

Receiving the ball, he said, was "the most emotional moment of my life."

Yes, liking baseball more than basketball is not "disinterest" in basketball.

[Michael Jackson]

I think people are REALLY missing the appeal in 2019 of buying an NBA team. The entire appeal practically is that you get to be the ultimate decision maker. And if you are a billionaire you tend to get what you want so if you want to make decisions regarding an NBA franchise and it's roster you get that. The problem is is a someone who made billions of dollars likely doing something completely unrelated the basketball you probably actually don't know basketball even as well as any assistant coach in the league.

I just find it difficult to believe that anyone with real money would buy an NBA franchise in 2019 and then be nearly as hands off as JR has been historically. They are driving up these franchise values not based on any Financial metrics whatsoever and not because they like sports but because they want to call the shots on an NBA franchise and the only way to do it as a basketball outsider is to buy a team.

Can a single one of you actually claimed that if you had billions of dollars and bought the Chicago Bulls that you would just hire a front office and let them do whatever they want? Hell no. You would make the final call on all trades and draft and contracts. You know you would.

Sure I would call the shots (and likely poorly) but I would have a public image that RealGM would love. The actual facts of how I ran it would be unimportant as long as I said I’m rich and I like to spend money to make the fans happy. I mean win... no agent or player would see through me either. I would hire people who saw through me on message boards to retort back to the posters that they are “Jerry Lovers”. I would have KD Russ and Klay on this squad and early next year when they all suit up sell at a profit before the crash came. I woukd make sure my paid influencers would post about how I spent so much more than Jerry and was the greatest owner but I had to sell because I loved the team so much I went broke.

[The Explorer]

Yes, liking baseball more than basketball is not "disinterest" in basketball.

Its a problem that as the chairman he's not fully invested in making the organization the best it can be.

[League Circles]

Yes, liking baseball more than basketball is not "disinterest" in basketball.

Its a problem that as the chairman he's not fully invested in making the organization the best it can be.

The best what that it can be? Winner? In my opinion no owner is focused on winning Above All Else. If anyone disagrees give me a team and I will construe a way to describe moves or lack of moves in recent years as demonstrating that they are not fully invested in winning Above All Else.

Fortunately winning is highly profitable and difficult to predict to such an extent that being over committed to one idea of how to win (one roster) is likely going to make you lose more than win. Profiting and winning are simply not inversely related in the way that so many fans project.

[Michael Jackson]

Yes, liking baseball more than basketball is not "disinterest" in basketball.

Its a problem that as the chairman he's not fully invested in making the organization the best it can be.

I’m not supporting Jerry but those quotes do not say that. You can infer that for sure but he simply has higher regard for baseball as an iconic American tradition. That’s cool and all, I get it although I much prefer basketball. The White Sox don’t interfere with the Bulls though imho.

For instance if I owned both teams I would have been saying the converse, hi the NBA title meant more than the MLB one did to me. Doesn’t mean the WORLD series wasn’t important. Cuban May personally love Shark Tank more... I don’t know don’t care.

[Leslie Forman]

After that, I think you have a fairly large middle class of "meh" owners and Reinsdorf certainly wouldn't be the worst of them. I just don't see Reinsdorf's flaws as things that a typical owner would do much differently. It'd be nice to have an amazing owner though.

Those "meh" owners by and large do not give their FOs such an incredibly long leash, and typically try to find people actually somewhat qualified for those positions when the time comes. Reinsdorf's hiring/retention practices with both the Bulls and White Sox are laughably success-unoriented. Other owners might fail but they at least go down swinging. Leonsis went hard after Connelly and Ujiri. Meanwhile MyHusbandPax wasn't working for Jerry so he decided to make the revolutionary move of turning it into…PaxMyHusband. Oh, sorry, he also hired the forward thinking, incredibly successful advisor…Doug Collins.

He just plain doesn't give a sh*t compared to any other owner out there. Everyone else out there is at least failing or succeeding through trying new things. Jerry is failing or succeeding by doing nothing. Absolutely nothing. He's out there looking as far as his Rolodex from 2003 for all his hires.