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A bold idea to make the Bulls favorable with players: Self imposed no trade rule

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Re: A bold idea to make the Bulls favorable with players: Self imposed no trade rule 

Post#21 » by DuckIII » Mon Aug 5, 2019 4:05 pm

Hell no. There’s no reason to handcuff ourselves from playing by the same set of rules as everyone else.

While the Bulls aren’t one of the 4-5 premiere FA destinations, we are still solidly in the running. Further, even if you disagree with my premise on that point, it’s even more of a reason to reject this idea as, for example, it prevents us from pulling off trades like OPJ or Butler, which are critical options to building a team.

It’s creative, but ultimately nonsensical.
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Re: A bold idea to make the Bulls favorable with players: Self imposed no trade rule 

Post#22 » by Susan » Mon Aug 5, 2019 4:05 pm

I also think we should make our GM position open ended so we KNOW that they're never getting fired. Make this position a lifetime role so the GM feels zero pressure. This will lead to full loyalty and perfect GMing because he's never going to be held accountable.

If we have any issues with this, we'll just hire another GM and they'll work as a team and nobody will ever get confused by this.
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Re: A bold idea to make the Bulls favorable with players: Self imposed no trade rule 

Post#23 » by dice » Mon Aug 5, 2019 4:15 pm

a "self imposed" no trade clause makes no sense when you can just write it into the contract. and writing it into the contract gives additional bargaining power on salary

"can i have a no trade clause?"
"no need. we don't trade anybody!"
"yeah, i'm gonna need that in writing. thanks"
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Re: A bold idea to make the Bulls favorable with players: Self imposed no trade rule 

Post#24 » by League Circles » Mon Aug 5, 2019 4:26 pm

dice wrote:a "self imposed" no trade clause makes no sense when you can just write it into the contract. and writing it into the contract gives additional bargaining power on salary

"can i have a no trade clause?"
"no need. we don't trade anybody!"
"yeah, i'm gonna need that in writing. thanks"

Umm, you can't write it into the contracts for almost all players.
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Re: A bold idea to make the Bulls favorable with players: Self imposed no trade rule 

Post#25 » by League Circles » Mon Aug 5, 2019 4:40 pm

Lol to people acting like this is way out there merely weeks after the NBA abolished the term owner because it hints at our memories of slavery. This is along the same lines but it would be the Chicago Bulls organization taking the lead instead of being forced to by Adam Silver.
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Re: A bold idea to make the Bulls favorable with players: Self imposed no trade rule 

Post#26 » by Red Larrivee » Mon Aug 5, 2019 4:59 pm

I get this is a thread to create conversation during the slow part of the offseason, but this is an awful idea. Imagine Portland being unable to trade those awful deals they signed three years ago.

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Re: A bold idea to make the Bulls favorable with players: Self imposed no trade rule 

Post#27 » by johnnyvann840 » Mon Aug 5, 2019 5:00 pm

I think it would backfire in a big way. As stated, the best players just want to force their way to the best situation for them and their families. No player wants to be "stuck" in any situation. What if the Bulls hire a coach the player cannot stand or just doesn't get along with? What if the player just isn't happy for whatever reason. It also limits you in team building. Drafting the BPA would no longer be a viable strategy because need would always be a concern.
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Re: A bold idea to make the Bulls favorable with players: Self imposed no trade rule 

Post#28 » by League Circles » Mon Aug 5, 2019 5:03 pm

Red Larrivee wrote:I get this is a thread to create conversation during the slow part of the offseason, but this is an awful idea. Imagine Portland being unable to trade those awful deals they signed three years ago.

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I'm not suggesting it become a league rule, though I can imagine that happening with or without the Bulls taking the lead.

I'm also for the Bulls not giving out bad contracts that they then need to dump.

I advocate for fewer deals being given out. This idea would complement that.
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Re: A bold idea to make the Bulls favorable with players: Self imposed no trade rule 

Post#29 » by johnnyvann840 » Mon Aug 5, 2019 5:05 pm

League Circles wrote:
dice wrote:a "self imposed" no trade clause makes no sense when you can just write it into the contract. and writing it into the contract gives additional bargaining power on salary

"can i have a no trade clause?"
"no need. we don't trade anybody!"
"yeah, i'm gonna need that in writing. thanks"

Umm, you can't write it into the contracts for almost all players.


You can for the players who actually "want" it. Thing is that the vast majority of players DON'T want it unless they are exactly where they want to be and most players don't ask for "no trade" clauses unless they have already been in an organization for a minute and they are happy there.

Players would pray the Bulls didn't draft them in hopes they don't get stuck in an unhappy marriage that was "arranged" in the first place. Like dice said, if a player really wants it and the team is amicable with it, you can give them a no trade clause in writing, anyway.
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Re: A bold idea to make the Bulls favorable with players: Self imposed no trade rule 

Post#30 » by League Circles » Mon Aug 5, 2019 5:06 pm

johnnyvann840 wrote:I think it would backfire in a big way. As stated, the best players just want to force their way to the best situation for them and their families. No player wants to be "stuck" in any situation. What if the Bulls hire a coach the player cannot stand or just doesn't get along with? What if the player just isn't happy for whatever reason. It also limits you in team building. Drafting the BPA would no longer be a viable strategy because need would always be a concern.

It certainly could backfire. I just think the risk is worth it. I would never really feel pressured to trade a player cause they were unhappy anyways. Besides, it's almost unheard of for a player to request a trade out of Chicago, and IMO it's cause despite fan sentiment, players mostly actually really like playing here.
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Re: A bold idea to make the Bulls favorable with players: Self imposed no trade rule 

Post#31 » by League Circles » Mon Aug 5, 2019 5:08 pm

johnnyvann840 wrote:
League Circles wrote:
dice wrote:a "self imposed" no trade clause makes no sense when you can just write it into the contract. and writing it into the contract gives additional bargaining power on salary

"can i have a no trade clause?"
"no need. we don't trade anybody!"
"yeah, i'm gonna need that in writing. thanks"

Umm, you can't write it into the contracts for almost all players.


You can for the players who actually "want" it. Thing is that the vast majority of players DON'T want it unless they are exactly where they want to be and most players don't ask for "no trade" clauses unless they have already been in an organization for a minute and they are happy there.

Players would pray the Bulls didn't draft them in hopes they don't get stuck in an unhappy marriage that was "arranged" in the first place. Like dice said, if a player really wants it and the team is amicable with it, you can give them a no trade clause in writing, anyway.

It's actually not permitted under the CBA to have contractual no trade clauses other than for players with at least 8 years of experience plus at least 4 years with the team in question. That is very few nba players. Maybe we don't hear much about players wanting it because their agents know that the teams are not willing to give it to them generally speaking. My idea is to change that for one of the 30 teams and set us apart using that as a differentiator.
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Re: A bold idea to make the Bulls favorable with players: Self imposed no trade rule 

Post#32 » by johnnyvann840 » Mon Aug 5, 2019 5:18 pm

League Circles wrote:
johnnyvann840 wrote:
League Circles wrote:Umm, you can't write it into the contracts for almost all players.


You can for the players who actually "want" it. Thing is that the vast majority of players DON'T want it unless they are exactly where they want to be and most players don't ask for "no trade" clauses unless they have already been in an organization for a minute and they are happy there.

Players would pray the Bulls didn't draft them in hopes they don't get stuck in an unhappy marriage that was "arranged" in the first place. Like dice said, if a player really wants it and the team is amicable with it, you can give them a no trade clause in writing, anyway.

It's actually not permitted under the CBA to have contractual no trade clauses other than for players with at least 8 years of experience plus at least 4 years with the team in question. That is very few nba players. Maybe we don't hear much about players wanting it because their agents know that the teams are not willing to give it to them generally speaking. My idea is to change that for one of the 30 teams and set us apart using that as a differentiator.


I didn't realize it was restricted to 8 year vets with 4 years with the same franchise. I still don't think it's a good idea for several other reasons. Things are just too fluid in the NBA and I think it's important for a franchise to remain "nimble" and have all options available at all times to build a winning team. Chemistry is something that cannot be forced upon a team, it's something that is built and sometimes moves need to be made to achieve it.
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Re: A bold idea to make the Bulls favorable with players: Self imposed no trade rule 

Post#33 » by DanTown8587 » Mon Aug 5, 2019 5:25 pm

This is a terrible idea because the Bulls aren't losing out on players because they're some overly active trade partners. Additionally, players like trades in some cases because they want to get a better opportunity for playing time. Also, what if the team has a rash of injuries; are they not allowed to trade for anyone?

This is not an idea that helps the team in any sort of way.
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Re: A bold idea to make the Bulls favorable with players: Self imposed no trade rule 

Post#34 » by DuckIII » Mon Aug 5, 2019 5:27 pm

League Circles wrote:Lol to people acting like this is way out there merely weeks after the NBA abolished the term owner because it hints at our memories of slavery. This is along the same lines but it would be the Chicago Bulls organization taking the lead instead of being forced to by Adam Silver.


I’m not suggesting it’s “way out there.” I’m saying it’s a bad idea.
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Re: A bold idea to make the Bulls favorable with players: Self imposed no trade rule 

Post#35 » by League Circles » Mon Aug 5, 2019 5:33 pm

DuckIII wrote:
League Circles wrote:Lol to people acting like this is way out there merely weeks after the NBA abolished the term owner because it hints at our memories of slavery. This is along the same lines but it would be the Chicago Bulls organization taking the lead instead of being forced to by Adam Silver.


I’m not suggesting it’s “way out there.” I’m saying it’s a bad idea.

I know, thanks. Some others are implying otherwise though.

To me, the Bulls instantly frame 29 other teams as, you know, slave traders. In a certain very 2019 marketing sense of course.
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Re: A bold idea to make the Bulls favorable with players: Self imposed no trade rule 

Post#36 » by IamSam » Mon Aug 5, 2019 5:49 pm

So essentially, it sounds like the OP is saying that since the Bulls do not typically execute major, franchise altering traded (with the noted Butler trade being an obvious exception), they may as well "cash in" and flip this as a benefit of sorts.

Given that most of the top tier guys seem to have had no problems with moving for various reasons, it's kinda tough for me to envision this as anything more than a somewhat interesting thought provoking off-season discussion. I could definitely see where some players might view this as limiting options for team improvement.
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Re: A bold idea to make the Bulls favorable with players: Self imposed no trade rule 

Post#37 » by dice » Mon Aug 5, 2019 9:22 pm

League Circles wrote:
dice wrote:a "self imposed" no trade clause makes no sense when you can just write it into the contract. and writing it into the contract gives additional bargaining power on salary

"can i have a no trade clause?"
"no need. we don't trade anybody!"
"yeah, i'm gonna need that in writing. thanks"

Umm, you can't write it into the contracts for almost all players.

"umm"...as if that was common knowledge?

but if the league prohibits no trade clauses in the vast majority of cases, you should know that they're not going to take kindly to a team sending out the "bat signal" that they're offering *wink wink* no trade clauses for incoming free agents
harden '17-18: 30p 62%ts
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me: "JH almost the scorer MJ is"
notorious MJ water carrier/sack shaver: "dur, MJ have much more bigger career playoff PPG"

wasn't a career comparison, clown. you dishonor MJ's legacy
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Re: A bold idea to make the Bulls favorable with players: Self imposed no trade rule 

Post#38 » by dice » Mon Aug 5, 2019 9:33 pm

DanTown8587 wrote:This is a terrible idea because the Bulls aren't losing out on players because they're some overly active trade partners. Additionally, players like trades in some cases because they want to get a better opportunity for playing time. Also, what if the team has a rash of injuries; are they not allowed to trade for anyone?

This is not an idea that helps the team in any sort of way.

I don't think he's suggesting that a team wouldn't trade a player who WANTS to be traded. that would just require him waiving his imaginary no trade clause

it could be beneficial to a team's image to avoid trades except in blatantly necessary situations. by asking itself "will there be any hard feelings and to what degree will that harm us going forward?" but teams ask themselves these kinds of questions already. for example, danny ainge surely factored in that it would look callous to trade IT for kyrie irving
harden '17-18: 30p 62%ts
MJ chi: 32p 58%ts

me: "JH almost the scorer MJ is"
notorious MJ water carrier/sack shaver: "dur, MJ have much more bigger career playoff PPG"

wasn't a career comparison, clown. you dishonor MJ's legacy
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Re: A bold idea to make the Bulls favorable with players: Self imposed no trade rule 

Post#39 » by League Circles » Mon Aug 5, 2019 9:53 pm

dice wrote:
DanTown8587 wrote:This is a terrible idea because the Bulls aren't losing out on players because they're some overly active trade partners. Additionally, players like trades in some cases because they want to get a better opportunity for playing time. Also, what if the team has a rash of injuries; are they not allowed to trade for anyone?

This is not an idea that helps the team in any sort of way.

I don't think he's suggesting that a team wouldn't trade a player who WANTS to be traded. that would just require him waiving his imaginary no trade clause

it could be beneficial to a team's image to avoid trades except in blatantly necessary situations. by asking itself "will there be any hard feelings and to what degree will that harm us going forward?" but teams ask themselves these kinds of questions already. for example, danny ainge surely factored in that it would look callous to trade IT for kyrie irving

I actually am suggesting that they don't trade players that want to be traded, though I feel that way with or without this idea of mine. If you announce this policy idea of mine and then trade a player who wants out for players on another team, you are treating those new players with the same "slavetrader" mentality that your entire policy intending to protest.

The whole idea is that we'd be taking the lead in treating all players with an elevated level of respect and ensuring their family and personal lives aren't upset by team controlled actions.
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Re: A bold idea to make the Bulls favorable with players: Self imposed no trade rule 

Post#40 » by League Circles » Mon Aug 5, 2019 9:56 pm

dice wrote:
League Circles wrote:
dice wrote:a "self imposed" no trade clause makes no sense when you can just write it into the contract. and writing it into the contract gives additional bargaining power on salary

"can i have a no trade clause?"
"no need. we don't trade anybody!"
"yeah, i'm gonna need that in writing. thanks"

Umm, you can't write it into the contracts for almost all players.

"umm"...as if that was common knowledge?

but if the league prohibits no trade clauses in the vast majority of cases, you should know that they're not going to take kindly to a team sending out the "bat signal" that they're offering *wink wink* no trade clauses for incoming free agents

Sorry, I actually would have thought it was common knowledge amongst hard core posters like you. It actually was 10 and 5 years rather than 8 and 4 until recently.

The obvious reason that this rule exists is because every player would want one and fans clamor for roster changes.

I've been suggesting that the Bulls use this tool to get guys like Derrick Rose (this summer) to sign for aomewh
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