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Indomitable wrote:

transplant wrote:Getting back to the OP, I don’t know that LaVine needed a wake up call...or should I say another wake up call. When you read anything nationally about LaVine, something like “terrible defense” is bound to be included. Not surprisingly, few choose to note that he’s gradually getting less terrible.

Reputations are hard to shake, particularly when the stats continue to support that rep. While I’d love to see some defensive lightbulb go on for him, I’ll accept the gradual improvement.

Scoring is important and the kid can do it on that end.


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He needs to improve his playmaking. Westbrook, Harden, and a host of all stars are crap defenders. He needs to become a 2 to 1 assist TO and he will become another up in coming star in the media.

Defense is important to win big.

Harden really is not a crap defender. He's actually a very solid team defender and one of the better guards defending in the paint. A player with a bad defensive reputation due to some memes and youtube low lights and a lot of "know nothing" commentary which perpetuates the misnomer. He spends so much energy on the offensive end that he does take an occasional play off on the other end and those wind up as memes. What he does well is anticipate, position himself and his hands are very good. His high IQ and anticipation is something that you can't teach. Truly a case of a bad rep following a player around for far too long.

Also...

Although I'm not huge on def rating as a stat, I would certainly not call Westbrook a "crap defender" either. When he wants to lock it down, he can be very good and quite often is.



https://okcthunderwire.usatoday.com/2018/12/30/oklahoma-city-thunder-russell-westbrook-nba-leader-defensive-rating/

johnnyvann840 wrote:

Proven_Winner wrote:

transplant wrote:Getting back to the OP, I don’t know that LaVine needed a wake up call...or should I say another wake up call. When you read anything nationally about LaVine, something like “terrible defense” is bound to be included. Not surprisingly, few choose to note that he’s gradually getting less terrible.

Reputations are hard to shake, particularly when the stats continue to support that rep. While I’d love to see some defensive lightbulb go on for him, I’ll accept the gradual improvement.

Scoring is important and the kid can do it on that end.


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Funny enough next to bad defense should be hardest worker in all caps. I’m always surprised the negative stuff stick so much to a nice guy like Zach but rarely do they mention how almost everything you see of him in the media is just him and a basketball no extra stuff no just flashing off endless dunks or thrashing amateurs.

Hopefully we see more on ball defense from Zach and he can shake that negative.

His problem has never been his on ball defense. It's always been his team defense, help defense and positioning. It's all IQ related, between the ears stuff. It's getting lost, missing rotations, even being on the wrong side of the floor at times. You can be the fastest player on the floor, you can out jump everybody on the floor but if you don't have the IQ to anticipate... to see the floor... to see things happening before they happen. The only way to get better at these things when you have a low IQ is repetition, drills. Seeing a play over and over and reacting to it until it becomes second nature. It's like playing an instrument... you have to really want to learn it. I mean really want to learn it.. badly. Enough to want to work at it but to want to do the things you don't like to do over and over. Nobody wants to sit and play scales up and down all day, or play things at 1/4th tempo with a metronome for hours, but that is what it takes to be decent if you aren't a natural and what it takes to be great even if you are.

Even still I think he will improve. Like you said if IQ on that end is the problem then repetition can correct it and that’s Zach’s thing he just works. Off ball defense may be a bit harder to practice without live bodies but he takes training serious so hopefully he spent the summer training on the right things.

Indomitable wrote:

Dez wrote:

Showtime23 wrote:
This is the common fallacy people fall into after seeing Harden's no defense Youtube videos.
However, the difference between these guys and Lavine are night and day.
When Harden tries playing D, he is above average and I think WB taking off the load helps him spend more energy esp in playoffs.
Westbrook is on another level when you witness him graabing the Def rbd and pushing the ball asap. His size is also intimidating for a pg he can guard 1-4.

Meanwhile, Lavine completely gave up on defense. Found his quote where he will only focus the stuff hes good at.
I will agree with his standpoint if his offense reaches Harden's level.

What the actual f***?

Harden is no where near above average defensively in any way.

Westbrook stat-padding for rebounds does not add anything to his team and it's actually absurd that you think he can guard 1-4.

Also LaVine has been quoted saying that he knows he needs to improve defensively and acknowledged that he will.

Literally everything you said in that post is false, completely false.

Harden is terrible and has learn to play the post by shoving. He is lazy out of shape a$$. He lose because he is only good at trick.

Westbrook has not guard in 4 years. He gambles and prays. His defense is a complete fiction.

you're both wrong to the point of absurdity. not only does the eye test fail you, but the numbers back up the fact that harden's defense is much improved as well. opponent shooting percentages on him when he is the post defender are very low. that doesn't happen by luck or praying or cheating. clown arguments

beyond post defense, he also gets a lot of steals, deflections and loose balls

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/22669488/attacks-james-harden-defense-mostly-unfair
https://www.houstonchronicle.com/sports/rockets/article/Critics-of-James-Harden-s-defense-remain-but-12531121.php

team defense is better when he is on the court for years now as well

johnnyvann840 wrote:

Indomitable wrote:

transplant wrote:Getting back to the OP, I don’t know that LaVine needed a wake up call...or should I say another wake up call. When you read anything nationally about LaVine, something like “terrible defense” is bound to be included. Not surprisingly, few choose to note that he’s gradually getting less terrible.

Reputations are hard to shake, particularly when the stats continue to support that rep. While I’d love to see some defensive lightbulb go on for him, I’ll accept the gradual improvement.

Scoring is important and the kid can do it on that end.


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He needs to improve his playmaking. Westbrook, Harden, and a host of all stars are crap defenders. He needs to become a 2 to 1 assist TO and he will become another up in coming star in the media.

Defense is important to win big.

Harden really is not a crap defender. He's actually a very solid team defender and one of the better guards defending in the paint. A player with a bad defensive reputation due to some memes and youtube low lights and a lot of "know nothing" commentary which perpetuates the misnomer. He spends so much energy on the offensive end that he does take an occasional play off on the other end and those wind up as memes. What he does well is anticipate, position himself and his hands are very good. His high IQ and anticipation is something that you can't teach. Truly a case of a bad rep following a player around for far too long.

Also...

Although I'm not huge on def rating as a stat, I would certainly not call Westbrook a "crap defender" either. When he wants to lock it down, he can be very good and quite often is.



https://okcthunderwire.usatoday.com/2018/12/30/oklahoma-city-thunder-russell-westbrook-nba-leader-defensive-rating/

Westbrook is hidden just like Harden but believe what you may. Harden is schemes are. He always had 4 good defenders on the floor with him.

Okc has solid team defense concepts.

Westbrook and Harden defense is bad. The team help them. Curry defense is nothing special. Team defense is what this league is about.

Zach is not good on defense . His problem was he had Lopez who could not move. Lauri who is below avg on defense.

Jabari who is terrible.
Portis who is a middling defender.

Last year Bulls team had 4 solid to good defenders.

Wendell, Hutch, Shaq, Otto

Dunn defense was bad.
Wendell and Hutch were struggled on offense but they always rotated to the right position. Otto is a pro. Shaq brought great passion and brought the intensity. He did not do all that reaching Dunn did last year.

Tomas in FIBA never missed a switch or a close out. He is not a stopper but he understands his job.

Young is a pro in the mold of Taj on defense.
Arch is nothing special but he does his job.

Defense is more about being aware since advent of the zone defense. The Bulls can switch a lot on defense with their backcourt size.

My point being is The Bulls have made a roster to protect their two best offensive players on defense. The defense will be better because you have reduce the number of clowns on the team.

Harden and Westbrook were helped by their team on defense. Zach on the ball defense in a drive situation is not bad. His awareness is his weak point.

Both Harden and Westbrook have shown better awareness. Zach Lowe agrees with me about the defensive play of Harden and Westbrook.

Westbrook has not truly tried on defense in about 4 years. He still probably has the ability. His biggest issue last year in his play was having the knee surgery just before the season.

Harden on defense stinks in space. He is aware and plays solid post defense. He a bad individual defender but is scheme protected. Plus his awareness off the ball is better then3 yea 're ago.

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Zach is a player who I’ve seen beat 2 teams by himself.

The opposing team, and the bulls who were working against him in a tank.
USA finished 7th IIRC. That is unacceptable and no doubt Zach could have helped. Especially if they were playing small , Zach would have been a good option 1-3.

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StunnerKO wrote:

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As the OP, I am happy to hear this. All optimism now. Let's Go Bulls!

I am really starting to love this kid. Health first (Bulls first)!

I think something needs to be done with FIBA and Olympics to minimize risk to stars. Not sure how, but that much basketball (combined with NBA) is a bad thing.