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Stepien article on Wendell Carter

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Re: Stepien article on Wendell Carter 

Post#21 » by MrSparkle » Wed Aug 7, 2019 5:42 pm

Truth is his scoring needs a LOT of work. Always nice when a kid comes in and can defend at a high level, but his percentages outside the rim are bad.

However, it is half-promising that (a) He took a very low volume of shots away from the rim (especially along the baseline), and (b) He already demonstrated in college that he has the talent to score from the perimeter. But Taj did too (in college), and that never really made him a shooting threat in this league. That said WCJ demonstrates better hands and O fundamentals.

For a start, he needs to work on that baseline jumper. 11/49 for the year, from the (combined) left and right baselines is a horrible stat. We're talking about a 10 ft. jumpshot. IMO at his height and skill level, he needs to make that automatic. The front-of-rim/painted-area numbers look fine. But that is way too easy to scout if he has nothing outside of there.

He shot a really strong FT% so I have faith with work and higher volume he can become a strong mid-range shooter. If that happens, he can be a top-10 big man/all-star. There's an opening for the next-gen big man to claim those tier 2-3 spots, after Jokic/Davis/Embiid. Gonna be a battle between some young blood and guys coming off injuries or mediocre seasons.

KAT
Ayton
Bagley
Jackson Jr

Porzingis
Cousins
Vucevic
Bam
Gobert
Drummond

The top 4 obviously have more talent and potential; it's more on them to "fall short" with defensive effort and 3P marksmanship (3 of the 4 have poor defensive reputations). If WCJ and Lauri put in the work on that 3P shooting (which could be their winning asset, over the rest of the lot), they're in the same conversation, because they've shown at least a better team defensive IQ.

Getting old: Horford, Aldridge, Griffin. Don't think they're going anywhere, but they have 2 years of (consistent all-star) play left, at best.
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Re: Stepien article on Wendell Carter 

Post#22 » by Peelboy » Wed Aug 7, 2019 8:27 pm

Just my $.02 mainly from watching him play, but consistent with a lot of what's in that article - Wendell was in the right position and making the right play virtually all the time. He rotated on D and moved on O into the right spot more often than not. Problem was he didn't have an NBA body and so would get bumped off just enough to miss some of the shots or get bodied out for rebounds. But to my eye, the frame was there - just needed an NBA offseason to bulk up a bit so he could power through a bit more. But the instincts were all there and were right on.

Hope is that the injury hasn't limited his ability to work on getting stronger and improving the shot enough to maintain confidence if it doesn't fall at times. If that happens, I think he's going to be along the lines of Tim Duncan - an amazingly fundamentally solid player who might not be a 28-15 guy, but could easily be a 20-12-3 blocks kind of guy who is a terror on D.
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Re: Stepien article on Wendell Carter 

Post#23 » by PaKii94 » Wed Aug 7, 2019 8:37 pm

Peelboy wrote:Just my $.02 mainly from watching him play, but consistent with a lot of what's in that article - Wendell was in the right position and making the right play virtually all the time. He rotated on D and moved on O into the right spot more often than not. Problem was he didn't have an NBA body and so would get bumped off just enough to miss some of the shots or get bodied out for rebounds. But to my eye, the frame was there - just needed an NBA offseason to bulk up a bit so he could power through a bit more. But the instincts were all there and were right on.

Hope is that the injury hasn't limited his ability to work on getting stronger and improving the shot enough to maintain confidence if it doesn't fall at times. If that happens, I think he's going to be along the lines of Tim Duncan - an amazingly fundamentally solid player who might not be a 28-15 guy, but could easily be a 20-12-3 blocks kind of guy who is a terror on D.



Before you posted this, I was going to mention for some reason his demeanor/playstyle on the court continues to remind me of Timmy D. It's not flash but cerebral and effective.
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Re: Stepien article on Wendell Carter 

Post#24 » by kulaz3000 » Wed Aug 7, 2019 10:54 pm

Proven_Winner wrote:He didn’t say anything new. I’m more disappointed some of you trying to make this a competition between him and Lauri when we have both. There’s zero reason to believe Bulls won’t try to keep both big men when they’re full of potential. Both fit together fine they’re both smart and they haven’t even played together for long.

Back to Wendell I think the article just reminds everyone what he did before going down which some fans have been saying all season. Every chance I get I remind everyone Wendell had a case for a defensive team when he played. Way ahead of his time and he’s still 20/21. One of the biggest and best decisions the FO has hit on since rebuilding.


The point of my post wasn't to pit them against each other, but more so that it's inevitable that when two young prospects share the same space, which is the case for Lauri and Wendall, more often than not these players are going to want an opportunity with a different team to be featured more. It's incredibly rare where two young players in the same timeline with seamingly the same potential to play their careers out on the same team.

In terms of fit, Lauri and WCJ should be a match made in heaven in the front court because they should compliment each other perfectly, but will they ever reach a point where they feel they can expand on their potential on another team, where there isn't an equally talented player sharing the same front court, or team for that matter? It's different with the likes of Zach because he is more established as those two, and he is considered a veteran.

Just look at Shaq and Penny, Shaq and Kobe, KD and Westbrook, McGrady and Carter, Larry Johnson and Zo, now, Lauri and WCJ are nowhere near the prospects those players are, but sometimes as a young adult, you don't truly understand the importance of sacrafise and the need to have equal talent on the same team until later in your career, whereas, when they are younger, they feel they could do more, be featured more, have more of the spotlight elsewhere.

I don't wish that with Lauri and WCJ, and my hope is that they both become All-Stars and they become so dominate together, that it changes the direction of the league and puts an importance of having two versatile big men as a requirement for all teams, but I also do worry that at some point one or these players are going to want to go elsewhere where they can be more of the focal point.

This season is going to be interesting to see how well they play together, and how much Boylen features those two on the offensive end, and how the ball is distributed between them, because if one of them gets slighted and feels they aren't getting enough touches, then there will likely begin the whispers that they want to be on a team where they can get what they want. Or maybe we have two players at a young age, who are mature enough to consider the team game as much more importance than individual performance and my concerns are all moot.

This is a general concern I usually have when you have too many young prospects on the same team all on similar timelines, because when you're talented, and have an ego, eventually you want to be the man, even if in reality, you probably aren't capable of being in that position, but there are always teams looking to give a player that opportunity.
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Re: Stepien article on Wendell Carter 

Post#25 » by Mark K » Thu Aug 8, 2019 12:21 am

DuckIII wrote:A lot of good stuff in the article, but one thing popped out at me:

Carter shooting 3s and being an adept overall floor spacer with at least some gravity is not a matter of if but when.


I strongly agree with this. I believe our team has the ability to, in time, field a starting lineup in which all 5 players are meaningful deep threats.


Not to come on too strong with my Wendell takes but it could come as soon as this season.

Satoranksy, LaVine, Porter and Markkanen are already there. If Carter can get to 35% this season (he's a better shooter than his percentages suggest), something I think is certainly possible if the volume is controlled, then it can happen this season.
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Re: Stepien article on Wendell Carter 

Post#26 » by coldfish » Thu Aug 8, 2019 1:37 pm

As far as Wendell's shooting, I'll go back. MJ had a flat shot. He never really got good at hitting the current NBA 3 because his arc was poor. Inside of there, he was a pretty good shooter. Luol Deng had a similar issue but not exactly. His arc was better than MJ's but his shooting motion seemed to make it that the NBA 3 was forced for him. As soon as he took a step or two in, it became a comfortable shot. Steph Curry has such ridiculous range because his neutral point is so low. He easily gets enough energy into the ball to flick it to the hoop from way outside the arc. MJ and Deng were fundamentally limited by their shot mechanics. Curry isn't.

Wendell's 3's are effortless and he has great arc. His misses are kind of all over the place though. Short, long, left or right. There is nothing fundamentally wrong with his form. If its just a matter of repetition, he can be an outright good 3p shooter. If its a coordination issue that may be a problem and I have seen guys like that. They look good and try hard but they just can never get it down repeatedly.
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Re: Stepien article on Wendell Carter 

Post#27 » by ATRAIN53 » Thu Aug 8, 2019 1:42 pm

wow, what a great site and NO Paywall :o

lotta good reading I see there. bookmarked and THANKS!
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Re: Stepien article on Wendell Carter 

Post#28 » by Dieselbound&Down » Thu Aug 8, 2019 3:29 pm

coldfish wrote:As far as Wendell's shooting, I'll go back. MJ had a flat shot. He never really got good at hitting the current NBA 3 because his arc was poor. Inside of there, he was a pretty good shooter. Luol Deng had a similar issue but not exactly. His arc was better than MJ's but his shooting motion seemed to make it that the NBA 3 was forced for him. As soon as he took a step or two in, it became a comfortable shot. Steph Curry has such ridiculous range because his neutral point is so low. He easily gets enough energy into the ball to flick it to the hoop from way outside the arc. MJ and Deng were fundamentally limited by their shot mechanics. Curry isn't.

Wendell's 3's are effortless and he has great arc. His misses are kind of all over the place though. Short, long, left or right. There is nothing fundamentally wrong with his form. If its just a matter of repetition, he can be an outright good 3p shooter. If its a coordination issue that may be a problem and I have seen guys like that. They look good and try hard but they just can never get it down repeatedly.


Not that anyone cares but. . .

I've decided that my shot mechanics also limit my range. It's been an interesting learning experience. Part of me fears this is my excuse for being inconsistent from deep, or an excuse for not practicing enough or simply being not good enough naturally, but I'm pretty certain this is right.

I grew up when 3s were new, even good shooters rarely shot them and I was big with an old school coach who wanted me to play closer to the post. I have a high release and am very comfortable up to about 17 feet but outside that it feels forced. I just can't effortlessly generate the power to get the ball up or get enough arc.

In the last year I've started playing a lot more, after basically taking ten years off, and I tinkered with my shot to make it more like Curry. I don't have a pause on the way up (or try not to), start the motion lower and altered how I use my legs which allows me to make up for my lack of lift (I'm old) by giving me a quicker release. It's also allowed me to extend my "comfort" shooting out to about 22 feet.

I'm still inconsistent as I revert back at times and my knees are mercurial which means the amount of push I get from my legs varies a great deal. But this has given me a first hand insight into shot mechanics and release points. I love coaching kids on shooting and it's made me a much better coach and changed what I try to teach.

If you bothered to read all of this, thanks for listening. Say a short prayer for my efforts to reinvent myself as the grizzled sharpshooter trying to keep up with kids 30 years younger.
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Re: Stepien article on Wendell Carter 

Post#29 » by coldfish » Thu Aug 8, 2019 3:47 pm

Dieselbound&Down wrote:
coldfish wrote:As far as Wendell's shooting, I'll go back. MJ had a flat shot. He never really got good at hitting the current NBA 3 because his arc was poor. Inside of there, he was a pretty good shooter. Luol Deng had a similar issue but not exactly. His arc was better than MJ's but his shooting motion seemed to make it that the NBA 3 was forced for him. As soon as he took a step or two in, it became a comfortable shot. Steph Curry has such ridiculous range because his neutral point is so low. He easily gets enough energy into the ball to flick it to the hoop from way outside the arc. MJ and Deng were fundamentally limited by their shot mechanics. Curry isn't.

Wendell's 3's are effortless and he has great arc. His misses are kind of all over the place though. Short, long, left or right. There is nothing fundamentally wrong with his form. If its just a matter of repetition, he can be an outright good 3p shooter. If its a coordination issue that may be a problem and I have seen guys like that. They look good and try hard but they just can never get it down repeatedly.


Not that anyone cares but. . .

I've decided that my shot mechanics also limit my range. It's been an interesting learning experience. Part of me fears this is my excuse for being inconsistent from deep, or an excuse for not practicing enough or simply being not good enough naturally, but I'm pretty certain this is right.

I grew up when 3s were new, even good shooters rarely shot them and I was big with an old school coach who wanted me to play closer to the post. I have a high release and am very comfortable up to about 17 feet but outside that it feels forced. I just can't effortlessly generate the power to get the ball up or get enough arc.

In the last year I've started playing a lot more, after basically taking ten years off, and I tinkered with my shot to make it more like Curry. I don't have a pause on the way up (or try not to), start the motion lower and altered how I use my legs which allows me to make up for my lack of lift (I'm old) by giving me a quicker release. It's also allowed me to extend my "comfort" shooting out to about 22 feet.

I'm still inconsistent as I revert back at times and my knees are mercurial which means the amount of push I get from my legs varies a great deal. But this has given me a first hand insight into shot mechanics and release points. I love coaching kids on shooting and it's made me a much better coach and changed what I try to teach.

If you bothered to read all of this, thanks for listening. Say a short prayer for my efforts to reinvent myself as the grizzled sharpshooter trying to keep up with kids 30 years younger.


Hahaha.

My post wasn't something from an NBA follower strictly. It came from a dad trying to teach his son to shoot 3's and trying to do it himself. I have a similar shot as you where I set it around my forehead and then push up. It makes a 3p hard. I have to jump and do so slightly forward to make my 3p shot comfortable. If I have to do it with all arms, I have to push really hard and that throws things all over. To me, the key is to have a shot where your arm motion feels comfortable and smooth.

I have tried to get my kid to emulate Curry. Its too late for me but for him, he can spend a lifetime with a good shot or a bad one. Its harder than it looks because you have to cock your hand back with the ball down low, which is an unnatural position. I have found that if you don't, you end up cocking your hand back up higher and that removes the energy you get from starting low.

I have given up years ago trying to teach other kids how to shoot. With the limited practice time I have, I end up doing more damage than good. All I generally suggest is getting more arc to kids with really flat shots and outside of that, just letting them get reps to make their current form more comfortable and repeatable.
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Re: Stepien article on Wendell Carter 

Post#30 » by khufure » Thu Aug 8, 2019 4:02 pm

I want to agree that his biggest strength and weakness is his head. But I'm worried his body won't hold up. You can tell he's got a good shot so as long as he can stay on the floor his offensive development will happen. How much depends on his health and his brain's ability to not get in the way.
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Re: Stepien article on Wendell Carter 

Post#31 » by Dieselbound&Down » Thu Aug 8, 2019 4:45 pm

coldfish wrote:
Dieselbound&Down wrote:
coldfish wrote:As far as Wendell's shooting, I'll go back. MJ had a flat shot. He never really got good at hitting the current NBA 3 because his arc was poor. Inside of there, he was a pretty good shooter. Luol Deng had a similar issue but not exactly. His arc was better than MJ's but his shooting motion seemed to make it that the NBA 3 was forced for him. As soon as he took a step or two in, it became a comfortable shot. Steph Curry has such ridiculous range because his neutral point is so low. He easily gets enough energy into the ball to flick it to the hoop from way outside the arc. MJ and Deng were fundamentally limited by their shot mechanics. Curry isn't.

Wendell's 3's are effortless and he has great arc. His misses are kind of all over the place though. Short, long, left or right. There is nothing fundamentally wrong with his form. If its just a matter of repetition, he can be an outright good 3p shooter. If its a coordination issue that may be a problem and I have seen guys like that. They look good and try hard but they just can never get it down repeatedly.


Not that anyone cares but. . .

I've decided that my shot mechanics also limit my range. It's been an interesting learning experience. Part of me fears this is my excuse for being inconsistent from deep, or an excuse for not practicing enough or simply being not good enough naturally, but I'm pretty certain this is right.

I grew up when 3s were new, even good shooters rarely shot them and I was big with an old school coach who wanted me to play closer to the post. I have a high release and am very comfortable up to about 17 feet but outside that it feels forced. I just can't effortlessly generate the power to get the ball up or get enough arc.

In the last year I've started playing a lot more, after basically taking ten years off, and I tinkered with my shot to make it more like Curry. I don't have a pause on the way up (or try not to), start the motion lower and altered how I use my legs which allows me to make up for my lack of lift (I'm old) by giving me a quicker release. It's also allowed me to extend my "comfort" shooting out to about 22 feet.

I'm still inconsistent as I revert back at times and my knees are mercurial which means the amount of push I get from my legs varies a great deal. But this has given me a first hand insight into shot mechanics and release points. I love coaching kids on shooting and it's made me a much better coach and changed what I try to teach.

If you bothered to read all of this, thanks for listening. Say a short prayer for my efforts to reinvent myself as the grizzled sharpshooter trying to keep up with kids 30 years younger.


Hahaha.

My post wasn't something from an NBA follower strictly. It came from a dad trying to teach his son to shoot 3's and trying to do it himself. I have a similar shot as you where I set it around my forehead and then push up. It makes a 3p hard. I have to jump and do so slightly forward to make my 3p shot comfortable. If I have to do it with all arms, I have to push really hard and that throws things all over. To me, the key is to have a shot where your arm motion feels comfortable and smooth.

I have tried to get my kid to emulate Curry. Its too late for me but for him, he can spend a lifetime with a good shot or a bad one. Its harder than it looks because you have to cock your hand back with the ball down low, which is an unnatural position. I have found that if you don't, you end up cocking your hand back up higher and that removes the energy you get from starting low.

I have given up years ago trying to teach other kids how to shoot. With the limited practice time I have, I end up doing more damage than good. All I generally suggest is getting more arc to kids with really flat shots and outside of that, just letting them get reps to make their current form more comfortable and repeatable.


I agree the wrist cock is something you can change if you use Curry's form. He doesn't square up until he is up into his shot, he has a twist, which imo naturally allows the wrist to cock lower as you are going up into the shot and allows it all to flow up to the release point providing more momentum and power. To me, that has been key to extending my range.

I think we are fighting the same battles my friend.
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Re: Stepien article on Wendell Carter 

Post#32 » by sco » Thu Aug 8, 2019 6:54 pm

ATRAIN53 wrote:wow, what a great site and NO Paywall :o

lotta good reading I see there. bookmarked and THANKS!

what site?
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Re: Stepien article on Wendell Carter 

Post#33 » by Jvaughn » Fri Aug 9, 2019 12:41 am

Mark K wrote:Wendell > every other prospect on this roster.


Who are you considering a prospect on this team? You seem to be one of those that's very high on Wendell. I think he'll be solid, but definitely not the best prospect.
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Re: Stepien article on Wendell Carter 

Post#34 » by kulaz3000 » Fri Aug 9, 2019 1:03 am

khufure wrote:I want to agree that his biggest strength and weakness is his head. But I'm worried his body won't hold up. You can tell he's got a good shot so as long as he can stay on the floor his offensive development will happen. How much depends on his health and his brain's ability to not get in the way.


He is young, lots of young players defer to a degree, but there were times he would defer too much last season.

That said, it also is the fault of the head coach and not using him in sets more often because as big men, they need the ball provided to them to have opportunities and there were lots of times when Lauri and WCJ wouldn't get touches because they were simply not receiving the ball, which is why many would advocate during games to get Archi in the game, because he would actually run plays for those two.
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Re: Stepien article on Wendell Carter 

Post#35 » by Mark K » Fri Aug 9, 2019 4:24 am

Jvaughn wrote:Who are you considering a prospect on this team? You seem to be one of those that's very high on Wendell. I think he'll be solid, but definitely not the best prospect.


Markkanen, White. Any other young guy. Include LaVine here too if you like. I think he's going to be better than all of them.

He has the intangibles those players will never have, and people sleep on how skilled he is with ball in hand.

I got crushed (to some degree) for a pro-Wendell post I wrote a couple months back, and I admit I'm heavily biased when it comes to Wendell, but I see so much more in him than I do any other young talent on this roster.
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Re: Stepien article on Wendell Carter 

Post#36 » by AKfanatic » Fri Aug 9, 2019 6:53 am

Mark K wrote:
Jvaughn wrote:Who are you considering a prospect on this team? You seem to be one of those that's very high on Wendell. I think he'll be solid, but definitely not the best prospect.


Markkanen, White. Any other young guy. Include LaVine here too if you like. I think he's going to be better than all of them.

He has the intangibles those players will never have, and people sleep on how skilled he is with ball in hand.

I got crushed (to some degree) for a pro-Wendell post I wrote a couple months back, and I admit I'm heavily biased when it comes to Wendell, but I see so much more in him than I do any other young talent on this roster.


A lot of fans still view him as strictly a defensive player. Many of those fans still, for whatever reason, view him as a “lumbering big”.

His skill set is so much higher than many give him credit for, which is somewhat understandable given how he was used (or not used) by the coaching staff. He can put it on the floor, has a good touch on his shot and floater, and has good explosion in his game when he beats his guy or rolls/cuts to the hoop. To go with that, the kid is smart... if he’s being used properly this season I think he’s going to really surprise fans on the offensive end this upcoming season.

Defensively, he’s a game changer. Literally, he changes the way opposing players play. There were numerous games where the opposition attempted to attack the rim early only to be challenged consistently by Carter to the point that those players started hesitating or staying in the midrange...where Carter also showed to be a very good defender, moving his feet and challenging. He got some serious rookie treatment from the officials last season that visibly started to effect him, I’d expect many of those calls to disappear this season.

Carter’s growth this season could move the Bulls higher than projected this season, and I wouldn’t be at all surprised to see it happening.
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Re: Stepien article on Wendell Carter 

Post#37 » by waffle » Fri Aug 9, 2019 7:11 am

I also have been VERY pro Wendell. I think he has a very high ceiling. I think his 2 challenges are 1) age, he's still a pup and 2) coaching. I am not saying Boylan is a bad coach, but I think Wendell needs some extra attention to become as good of a 2 way player as he can be. As I said I think his ceiling is very very high so just hope it can be maximized effectively
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Re: Stepien article on Wendell Carter 

Post#38 » by qianlong » Fri Aug 9, 2019 7:26 am

I think Young signing in the end may provide more benefits for WCJ than Lauri.
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Re: Stepien article on Wendell Carter 

Post#39 » by sco » Fri Aug 9, 2019 12:39 pm

Mark K wrote:
Jvaughn wrote:Who are you considering a prospect on this team? You seem to be one of those that's very high on Wendell. I think he'll be solid, but definitely not the best prospect.


Markkanen, White. Any other young guy. Include LaVine here too if you like. I think he's going to be better than all of them.

He has the intangibles those players will never have, and people sleep on how skilled he is with ball in hand.

I got crushed (to some degree) for a pro-Wendell post I wrote a couple months back, and I admit I'm heavily biased when it comes to Wendell, but I see so much more in him than I do any other young talent on this roster.

I get scared every time I start liking him too much. I see what you see, but I worry about a few things:

1) His lack of confidence at times...likely just a 19 year old rookie thing, but that's what I saw.
2) His lack of size against the best bigs.
3) His shot, despite good form, never materializing

Those are jumpable hurdles, but I gotta see him make jumps on those this season.
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Re: Stepien article on Wendell Carter 

Post#40 » by madvillian » Fri Aug 9, 2019 7:57 pm

Not much to add to the already great thread but I always thought the Horford comp was selling him a bit short (at least after watching him defensively the first part of the year). Wendell has the potential to be an elite rim protector and guy that can switch on the perimeter while also being an efficient if not volume heavy scorer. He might not ever come into his own offensively but his defensive floor, given good health, seems All Defense 3rd team and that's his floor. Ceiling would be DPOY.
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