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I am curious, who's going to guard the Drummond, Embid and Cousins of the world?

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I am curious, who's going to guard the Drummond, Embid and Cousins of the world? 

Post#1 » by JimmyJammer » Tue Aug 13, 2019 6:37 pm

The last two years, around this time, my main question was who on our team is going to guard the LeBron, Durant, Carmelo Anthony, Kawhi Leonard and Paul George of the world? The size wasn't there, and neither the skills. We had to rely on guys like Justin Holiday, David Nwaba and Denzel Valentine, which used to put us at a disadvantage size wise from the get-go. God bless Nwaba's heart because he did and tried his best. But now, with Porter and Thaddeus on the roster, we can say with confidence that this problem has been solved to some extent.

This year with Lopez being let go, however, the question in my mind is, who will guard the big skillful centers. On this list, there are Embid, Drummond, Vucevic, Jokic, Cousins, Adams, Nurkic and even DeAndre Jordan. Carter certainly has great upside but I am worried about his height and girth. It's not like he is super athletic or anything, so this begs the question, who? Kornet has definitely been ok around the rim, but can we trust him to put a body on those guys without fouling? Gafford is going to be the third guy on the list, but can we count on him to do that?
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Re: I am curious, who's going to guard the Drummond, Embid and Cousins of the world? 

Post#2 » by Markksman_24 » Tue Aug 13, 2019 6:40 pm

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Re: I am curious, who's going to guard the Drummond, Embid and Cousins of the world? 

Post#3 » by poolshark52 » Tue Aug 13, 2019 6:43 pm

Well, with Drummond we just throw bodies at him and foul him. The others will be problematic. Hopefully Kornet is hitting the weight room.
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Re: I am curious, who's going to guard the Drummond, Embid and Cousins of the world? 

Post#4 » by Chicago-Bull-E » Tue Aug 13, 2019 6:59 pm

WCJ will, and he’ll be more than adequate.
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Re: I am curious, who's going to guard the Drummond, Embid and Cousins of the world? 

Post#5 » by dougthonus » Tue Aug 13, 2019 7:22 pm

JimmyJammer wrote:The last two years, around this time, my main question was who on our team is going to guard the LeBron, Durant, Carmelo Anthony, Kawhi Leonard and Paul George of the world? The size wasn't there, and neither the skills. We had to rely on guys like Justin Holiday, David Nwaba and Denzel Valentine, which used to put us at a disadvantage size wise from the get-go. God bless Nwaba's heart because he did and tried his best. But now, with Porter and Thaddeus on the roster, we can say with confidence that this problem has been solved to some extent.

This year with Lopez being let go, however, the question in my mind is, who will guard the big skillful centers. On this list, there are Embid, Drummond, Vucevic, Jokic, Cousins, Adams, Nurkic and even DeAndre Jordan. Carter certainly has great upside but I am worried about his height and girth. It's not like he is super athletic or anything, so this begs the question, who? Kornet has definitely been ok around the rim, but can we trust him to put a body on those guys without fouling? Gafford is going to be the third guy on the list, but can we count on him to do that?


Out of those, Nurkic is in the west so it won't really be critical. Embiid and Vucevic will be guys you have to guard near the basket. The other guys are guys you just need to keep off the glass, you don't really need to worry about them putting up tons of points on you.

I think Carter is good enough to defend those guys on the perimeter and the main concern with him being overpowered in the low post, in that case, those are guys you can just double team in that position a good chunk of the time and game plan around (Vucevic / Embiid / Nurkic). The other guys you just need to pay a bit more attention to team rebounding and not worry about it at all.
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Re: I am curious, who's going to guard the Drummond, Embid and Cousins of the world? 

Post#6 » by FriedRise » Tue Aug 13, 2019 7:23 pm

Drummond/Jordan/Embiid/Cousins - WCJ primarily, but pack the paint and make them shoot
LeBron - Otto or Thad, but just as always... let him get his and stay with everyone else, don't double. Attack him on the other end.
Durant - not a problem this year
Melo - not in the league anymore, but if he's playing again, defend the perimeter and make him take those long 2s. Attack him on the other end.
Kawhi - Otto or Thad and pray for the best
PG13 - Lauri or Thad

We don't have a bruiser at the 5 anymore like Lopez, so I hope WCJ has bulked up / gotten stronger a little.
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Re: I am curious, who's going to guard the Drummond, Embid and Cousins of the world? 

Post#7 » by RedBulls23 » Tue Aug 13, 2019 7:49 pm

WCJ will. He's going to get stronger, so I don't see him having an issue defending those guys. I also don't get the concerns for his length.
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Re: I am curious, who's going to guard the Drummond, Embid and Cousins of the world? 

Post#8 » by PaKii94 » Tue Aug 13, 2019 8:15 pm

RedBulls23 wrote:WCJ will. He's going to get stronger, so I don't see him having an issue defending those guys. I also don't get the concerns for his length.


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Re: I am curious, who's going to guard the Drummond, Embid and Cousins of the world? 

Post#9 » by ChettheJet » Tue Aug 13, 2019 8:16 pm

Carter jr will the best he can. But realize if those other teams decide to keep putting the ball in the hands of those big centers, the other 4 guys they have on the court are going to be less effective so they won't be able to beat you.
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Re: I am curious, who's going to guard the Drummond, Embid and Cousins of the world? 

Post#10 » by drosestruts » Tue Aug 13, 2019 8:49 pm

This is a fair point and I think defensively we will occasionally be at a disadvantage against the league's larger centers (Drummond, Gasol, Lopez, Embiid, Horford, Vucevic, etc.)

But this also works the other way. If Carter extends his range (we know Kornet can shoot) it will effectively pull some of these greant defenders out of the paint opening up the floor for our players. If Embiid (just as an example) cheats too far off Carter/Kornet or leaves them to go block chasing it should be easy points for us. If someone else scrambles to cover in their place, Carter is a good passer and whomever he's passing to (Satorasnky, LaVine, Porter, Markkannen) will be open and can score from anywhere on the court.

For the first time in....... I'm not sure how long, we'll have 5-man lineups where everyone on the court is a threat to score.
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Re: I am curious, who's going to guard the Drummond, Embid and Cousins of the world? 

Post#11 » by bearadonisdna » Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:10 pm

The saving grace is that most team's aren't built to dump it into your center. It takes time to do that and is perceived slow pace.

Having an elite defender at the position bodes well for the bulls. Gafford and kornet are the other 5's imo, Lauri might get spot minutes there too.

With post defense, sometimes it's just good enough to just make the guy work and be there to contest the shot.
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Re: I am curious, who's going to guard the Drummond, Embid and Cousins of the world? 

Post#12 » by Mark K » Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:27 pm

Wendell had 25 and 8 against Jolie in only his eighth game while also having 28 and 7 against Drummond in game no. 25.

We good.
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Re: I am curious, who's going to guard the Drummond, Embid and Cousins of the world? 

Post#13 » by drosestruts » Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:43 pm

Mark K wrote:Wendell had 25 and 8 against Jolie in only his eighth game while also having 28 and 7 against Drummond in game no. 25.

We good.


It took me a long time you meant Jokic - I was looking at Carter vs the 76ers thinking you meant Joel Embiid and was so confused.


That Denver game is interesting because the Nuggets won by one and both Carter and Jokic were +4 on the court for the game. Jokic had 22, 12 and 9.

In the Detroit game, While Wendells stats were good he was -24 and Drummond had 19 points and 20 rebounds.

I think the concern over defending some of these bigger centers is valid, as is those centers having the stick with what I'm hoping is a quicker, more active, rangier Wendell Carter Jr.
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Re: I am curious, who's going to guard the Drummond, Embid and Cousins of the world? 

Post#14 » by madvillian » Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:48 pm

I think the buffet table is going to be guarding Boogie the rest of his career. He's finished unless he slims down to 5% body fat and I doubt he is that committed.

As for the rest of those guys, it's a half dozen games a year give or take. WCJR is as able to guard those guys as well as anybody not named Embiid or Davis or Gobert really.

Bulls have much bigger concerns.
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Re: I am curious, who's going to guard the Drummond, Embid and Cousins of the world? 

Post#15 » by AKfanatic » Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:09 pm

Mark K wrote:Wendell had 25 and 8 against Jolie in only his eighth game while also having 28 and 7 against Drummond in game no. 25.

We good.


He actually played pretty solid D on Drummond also. In that game, both Drummond and Griffin started out by trying to attack the rim, Wendell challenged, and the two of them became much less aggressive in the paint.

Carter had most of his trouble vs Adams due to the size, strength, and non stop energy Adams plays with. Beyond that, Embiid is the toughest match-up, but Embiid has a way of falling in love with the perimeter and if he does that vs Carter, Wendell will do well challenging.
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Re: I am curious, who's going to guard the Drummond, Embid and Cousins of the world? 

Post#16 » by AKfanatic » Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:16 pm

drosestruts wrote:
Mark K wrote:Wendell had 25 and 8 against Jolie in only his eighth game while also having 28 and 7 against Drummond in game no. 25.

We good.


It took me a long time you meant Jokic - I was looking at Carter vs the 76ers thinking you meant Joel Embiid and was so confused.


That Denver game is interesting because the Nuggets won by one and both Carter and Jokic were +4 on the court for the game. Jokic had 22, 12 and 9.

In the Detroit game, While Wendells stats were good he was -24 and Drummond had 19 points and 20 rebounds.

I think the concern over defending some of these bigger centers is valid, as is those centers having the stick with what I'm hoping is a quicker, more active, rangier Wendell Carter Jr.


Drummond played well... but the numbers are really misleading. Carter was playing really well on D, then sat for extended minutes and Rolo came in and got worked allowing Andre to really get going. Early on Carter spent a lot of time of Griffin, challenged him at the rim, and then Griffin started shooting long 2’s that Carter also challenged really well but Blake still managed to hit a lot of them.
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Re: I am curious, who's going to guard the Drummond, Embid and Cousins of the world? 

Post#17 » by transplant » Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:33 pm

I'm with the consensus...Carter will be the Bulls' defensive center and will be reasonably effective against all opposing bigs. Is there some hopefullness in this response...damn right there is.

The Bulls are clearly betting that Carter can be a legit big. Defense is what he does best. It's OK to have doubts, but he is unquestionably the answer to the OP question.
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Re: I am curious, who's going to guard the Drummond, Embid and Cousins of the world? 

Post#18 » by Mark K » Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:36 pm

We forget what Wendell was doing because it was so long ago.

I can't be assed (because I've forgotten how to do it) posting an image of his game log, but under Hoiberg, Wendell had a stretch of games that were damn impressive. Have a look at the game log. Under Boylen, who totally misused Carter, he didn't have a massive game like he did on several occasions under Hoiberg.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/cartewe01/gamelog/2019/

Game 6-16, he was putting up double figure scoring numbers, grabbing rebounds, doing everything on the floor. And he was doing that while playing in some pretty horrible lineups with no support defensively as a 19-year-old.

I know I keep harping on about it and it's probably nauseating at this point but I'm not sure I've believed in a Bulls prospect this much since Rose. Even before Rose, going back to the Baby Bulls days, more so than Kirk, Lu and BG, I'm higher on Carter than I was those guys.

I hope I'm not wrong here, but I think the Bulls have themselves a special talent. Maybe not one who's good enough to be a focal point of a franchise, but certainly one who should spend the next 10+ years of his career being one of the smartest and complete players in the league.
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Re: I am curious, who's going to guard the Drummond, Embid and Cousins of the world? 

Post#19 » by HomoSapien » Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:57 pm

Carter kind of just looked on the smallish size to me. Eventually I’d like to add a traditional center on the roster for those matchups. I think it’ll be an weakness for us.
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Re: I am curious, who's going to guard the Drummond, Embid and Cousins of the world? 

Post#20 » by logical_art » Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:59 pm

When you say "of the world" you mean exactly those three players?

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