Who is on your Chicago Bulls Mount Rushmore?

[dice]

combined reg and playoff VORP, first 3-peat:

35.0 MJ
23.1 pip
19.1 horace
1.8 scott williams (the fact that I need to put his first name on there for people to remember him shows how little help the "big 3" got in that first 3-peat)
1.7 armstrong
1.3 perdue
0.9 pax
0 cartwright

second 3-peat:

26.5 MJ
21.6 pip
11.1 kukoc
10.8 rodman
9.4 harper
5.7 kerr
3.6 longley

much deeper supporting cast in second 3-peat. which is why horace grant was EASILY more valuable to the bulls even in just a 3 year championship window than rodman was. not even accounting for the rest of his time here, both being a part of maturing into a championship team and being the only reliable supporting cast member that pippen had the year after MJ retired

It's amazing how so few Bulls fans understand just how great Horace was during the first 3peat. Michael, Scottie and Horace (and Phil) WERE the first half of the dynasty. They climbed the mountain together, they took the beatings, lost to the Knicks and Pistons all those years, then they grew into a dynasty. A lot of Bulls fans remained sour over the way Horace left and then watching him get carried off the floor by his Magic teammates after taking out the Bulls was tough for many to get over. But, yeah, I agree... as great as Rodman was, Horace was a Bull for much longer and was here for the entire climb to greatness and was more impactful in the first 3 peat than Rodman was in the 2nd. That is why my Mt Rushmore is MJ, Scottie, Horace and Phil... They were the four guys I associate the first three Championships with.

In my opinion there were several other power forwards that could have filled the roles that both Grant and Rodman played on those championship teams and the Bulls still would have won those championships. One could even argue that Pippen could have been replaced with another star player and the Bulls still win all those championships. That shows the greatness of Jordan. There are only a handful of players like this. Tim Duncan, Shaq, Kobe, LeBron and probably a few more.

I also think Phil Jackson walked into a perfect situation and he can be looked at as a little over rated.

scottie pippen was about as good as kobe due to vastly superior defense, so saying that pip was replaceable and then turning around and putting the most overrated player in league history (kobe) in MJ's league is completely absurd

-the "replaceable" pippen and grant carried a crap supporting cast to 55 wins and within a questionable call of the eastern conference finals in the wake of MJ's retirement

-prime kobe and prime odom carried a crap supporting cast to 34, 45 and 42 wins in the tougher west before gasol arrived and made them contenders

[Am2626]

It's amazing how so few Bulls fans understand just how great Horace was during the first 3peat. Michael, Scottie and Horace (and Phil) WERE the first half of the dynasty. They climbed the mountain together, they took the beatings, lost to the Knicks and Pistons all those years, then they grew into a dynasty. A lot of Bulls fans remained sour over the way Horace left and then watching him get carried off the floor by his Magic teammates after taking out the Bulls was tough for many to get over. But, yeah, I agree... as great as Rodman was, Horace was a Bull for much longer and was here for the entire climb to greatness and was more impactful in the first 3 peat than Rodman was in the 2nd. That is why my Mt Rushmore is MJ, Scottie, Horace and Phil... They were the four guys I associate the first three Championships with.

In my opinion there were several other power forwards that could have filled the roles that both Grant and Rodman played on those championship teams and the Bulls still would have won those championships. One could even argue that Pippen could have been replaced with another star player and the Bulls still win all those championships. That shows the greatness of Jordan. There are only a handful of players like this. Tim Duncan, Shaq, Kobe, LeBron and probably a few more.

I also think Phil Jackson walked into a perfect situation and he can be looked at as a little over rated.

scottie pippen was about as good as kobe due to vastly superior defense, so saying that pip was replaceable and then turning around and putting the most overrated player in league history (kobe) in MJ's league is completely absurd

-the "replaceable" pippen and grant carried a crap supporting cast to 55 wins and within a questionable call of the eastern conference finals in the wake of MJ's retirement

-prime kobe and prime odom carried a crap supporting cast to 34, 45 and 42 wins in the tougher west before gasol arrived and made them contenders

Ok Kobe probably doesn’t belong in that category and is in a similar level with Pippen. In actuality I think Jordan is in his own class and then the next level are the Duncan’s, LeBron’s and Shaq. Pippen is in the next star category after that. Replace Pippen with any of Barkley, David Robinson, Karl Malone, etc and the Bulls are still a dynasty. Replace Grant with an above average Power Forward and that team doesn’t miss a beat.

[transplant]

FWIW, if I were to put 3 players from the dynasty on the Mount, Grant would definitely be my choice. As has been pointed out, he scored, rebounded and passed very well, but what I remember most vividly was how great he was on the point of their full-court pressure D that turned so many key games in the Bulls favor.


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[troza]

My point on Rodman and Grant is just that they were good players but not the stars of a team. We all loved to see them play at that time but it is still Jordan's, Pippen's and Phil's team. Those were the ones that were on the 6 titles.

I feel that for a franchise like the Bulls there aren't that many players above Grant and Rodman but there are still ones that deserve more than them. That is just my opinion.

And yes, the full court pressure D of the first 3-peat was something special.

[AKfanatic]

In my opinion there were several other power forwards that could have filled the roles that both Grant and Rodman played on those championship teams and the Bulls still would have won those championships. One could even argue that Pippen could have been replaced with another star player and the Bulls still win all those championships. That shows the greatness of Jordan. There are only a handful of players like this. Tim Duncan, Shaq, Kobe, LeBron and probably a few more.

I also think Phil Jackson walked into a perfect situation and he can be looked at as a little over rated.

scottie pippen was about as good as kobe due to vastly superior defense, so saying that pip was replaceable and then turning around and putting the most overrated player in league history (kobe) in MJ's league is completely absurd

-the "replaceable" pippen and grant carried a crap supporting cast to 55 wins and within a questionable call of the eastern conference finals in the wake of MJ's retirement

-prime kobe and prime odom carried a crap supporting cast to 34, 45 and 42 wins in the tougher west before gasol arrived and made them contenders

Ok Kobe probably doesn’t belong in that category and is in a similar level with Pippen. In actuality I think Jordan is in his own class and then the next level are the Duncan’s, LeBron’s and Shaq. Pippen is in the next star category after that. Replace Pippen with any of Barkley, David Robinson, Karl Malone, etc and the Bulls are still a dynasty. Replace Grant with an above average Power Forward and that team doesn’t miss a beat.

Replace Pippen with a Barkley or Malone, and the Bulls may win championships...but I don’t think they are the clear dynasty they were with Pippen. While both Malone and Barkley were incredible players, I think the dynamic changes to where teams may actually have an easier time vs the Bulls. Without Pip, Jordan has to expend much more energy on D, which goes from being arguably the best perimeter D (it was) of all time, to a really good one. While Sir Charles and the Mailman are both great, top PF’s of all time, I’d bet teams like Indy (Davis boys, Detlef, Smits) or New York (Mason, X man, Ewing, Oakley) are better constructed to compete with the Bulls minus Pip plus one of those two PF’s.

Robinson would’ve been interesting with Jordan. His defensive prowess in the middle, offensive ability inside and outside of the paint, as well as a personality that would likely play 2nd fiddle to Jordan without a problem, could’ve been really fun to watch. But with him, the opposition may be better suited to match up vs the Bulls.

The guard/wing play of Jordan and Pippen was an advantage vs most of their rivals that were built with tough bigs. When Horace was a Bull, his ability to move his feet and use his length in tandem with Pip and Jordan, made the Bulls D(oberman) game changing.

[johnnyvann840]

You can't just replace Scottie with anybody really. What made those teams so unstoppable was having two guys 6'6" and 6'8".. Both great ballhandlers, passers, rebounders. Both relentless all NBA defenders. Both long strong and fast as hell. Having these two "do everything" all around greats were just too much for any team to handle. Both great under pressure in the clutch. Both with basketball IQs off the charts.

People forget it was just those two with two completely different casts. Not one player carried over to the 2nd 3peat. Only Michael and Scottie with two completely different rosters.

[troza]

You can't just replace Scottie with anybody really. What made those teams so unstoppable was having two guys 6'6" and 6'8".. Both great ballhandlers, passers, rebounders. Both relentless all NBA defenders. Both long strong and fast as hell. Having these two "do everything" all around greats were just too much for any team to handle. Both great under pressure in the clutch. Both with basketball IQs off the charts.

People forget it was just those two with two completely different casts. Not one player carried over to the 2nd 3peat. Only Michael and Scottie with two completely different rosters.

Indeed! But I think that this is true mainly in the first 3-peat. But, on the other way, not only wasn't Pippen that good on the second 3-peat, Barkley wasn't either at that time.

And the what if we traded Pippen for Malone, that wouldn't be good... Horance Grant or Rodman weren't good enough to play small forward. It would depend a lot on who we got to play at SF. And although I believe that Malone would do great on the triangle offense, we never know his numbers in reality as he played a lot with Stockton or post-ups... and on the second 3-peat Jordan was the guy doing those post ups.