Pelton: Bulls most underrated team in East

[NWIBullsFan]

Pelton: Chicago (32 wins, No. 11). Statistical projections are largely unanimous that the Bulls should be near .500 this season after adding a number of quality role players (including Otto Porter Jr. at the 2019 trade deadline) to go with the young core that struggled to win games last season.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/27428964/debating-nba-most-overrated-underrated-teams

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Take the 3 computer generated predictions, and the Bulls are expected to win 38.4 games. That's better than Detroit (36.8) and barely behind Brooklyn (39.0) for 8th in the East.

[Chi]

Agreed...

[RedBulls23]

If they can stay relatively healthy, they should be able to battle for the 8th seed.

That's the key though. Can they stay healthy...

[Proven_Winner]

I feel like the media has actually been fair with us lately. Most gave us making the playoffs. I think more so Bulls fans underrate the team more than anyone.

[ChettheJet]

Any prognosticator that mentions last year is not even trying to know what's going on. The Bulls had no team last year, at least not one that's going to be getting minutes this year. They do need to stay healthy because a good portion of their bench didn't play much last year and the rest is new so there's no real way to gauge their depth if someone gets hurt.

It might take 20 games to see how good they can become but I think they're a .500 team in the playoffs. Like the article says, a lot of teams added players, some big name players, but did they build a roster and rotation that's going to play together and win games? Teams got a bunch of new players but why were those players available, maybe their former teams didn't think they were worth having around.

[stepic]

ESPN and FiveThirtyEight both projecting the Clippers win 48?

the Clippers which won 48 last year.

and just added two MVP contenders.

riiiight.

[ATRAIN53]

Pacers at 6th in the East is the most underrated thing I see there.

I will not be shocked if DEN wins the West, but no one cares.
All we want is Clippers/Lakers

I really really want to see GSW just bottom out so bad this year

These guys know Khawi left TOR right?

[coldfish]

Pacers at 6th in the East is the most underrated thing I see there.

I will not be shocked if DEN wins the West, but no one cares.
All we want is Clippers/Lakers

I really really want to see GSW just bottom out so bad this year

These guys know Khawi left TOR right?

IMO, the Pacers are going to miss Thad and Bogdan. They also won't have Dipo for a while. They may turn it on in March but I suspect they are going to struggle with their win total.

Toronto is going to fall also. Its not just Kawhi. Green too.

[MGB8]

ESPN and FiveThirtyEight both projecting the Clippers win 48?

the Clippers which won 48 last year.

and just added two MVP contenders.

riiiight.

Yup. And I think that they are high for the Bulls. While the Bulls near-.500 run after the Porter trade was nice, the 2nd half of the season isn't like the first - some teams are throttling down for tank purposes, others doing more to try to maintain health for the playoffs (to include being more cautious with resting players).

True, the Raptors and Celtics got worse (and maybe the Bucks, with the loss of Brogdon and a small stretch of Mirotic offset by George Hill's flashing back to form in the playoffs, DJ Wilson's development, and adding depth pieces like Wes Matthews, Korver and Ro-Lo).

But pretty much everyone else got better. The Sixers got better (loss of Butler, JJ Reddick offset by opening more space for Harris to be more effective, adding Horford, Richardson, Thaybule, and development of young players). The Nets obviously got better. The Pacers got better with Brogdon, TJ Warren and Lamb offsetting the loss of Collison and Bogdanovic, young player development (A.Holiday, Turner, Sabonis). The Heat got better (Butler). The Pistons got better (Rose, Markieff Morris, even the addition of Snell could help them). The Magic got better (still no PG, but young player development plus Al Aminu).

And the other "young core who had a nice 2nd half run" team - the Hawks - got better, too.

[MGB8]

Pacers at 6th in the East is the most underrated thing I see there.

I will not be shocked if DEN wins the West, but no one cares.
All we want is Clippers/Lakers

I really really want to see GSW just bottom out so bad this year

These guys know Khawi left TOR right?

IMO, the Pacers are going to miss Thad and Bogdan. They also won't have Dipo for a while. They may turn it on in March but I suspect they are going to struggle with their win total.

Toronto is going to fall also. Its not just Kawhi. Green too.

Don't sleep on the Pacers. Yeah, Dipo will take a while to get back. But look at their depth chart (projected below) and the relevant ages of those players.

PG: Brogdon (26), Holiday (22), TJ McConnell
SG: [Oladipo (27)], Lamb (27), J.Holiday (30)
SF: Warren (25), McDermott (27)
PF: Sabonis (23), TJ Leaf (22), JaKarr Sampson (26)
CC: Turner (23), Goga (20)

[weneeda2guard]

i dont know what they mean by underrated. if you mean underrated , as in they should be a team to make the playoffs, then from the outside looking in, with i think only 1 national tv game, then no "expert" would predict a 22 win team would double their win total, to get to a record that could make the east playoffs. not when you have only added thaddeus young, satoransky and a rookie coby white. lavine and lauri will need to make a huge leap to all star level players to carry this team, im optimistic it can happen but not shocked if it doesnt. also the east has flat out just gotten a lot better. sure a lot of things could go in our favor, but im already expecting the injury to come early in training camp that sidelines someone for 2 months. it just how it goes around here.

from a bulls fan perspective we know tanking was a major part of our poor record, so if the bulls win 40 games its not such a high jump to us because we know if it wasnt for tanking, we might have won 35 games last year. coaching change is a factor as well.

overall, i think we are better, our bench, depth is def better, boylen might not be the next greg pop but he is better than hoiberg, and lavine and lauri are poised to take that next step. personally if we dont at least make the 8th seed and lauri and lavine is not the 1, 2 punch that can carry us there, i would immediately look to break them up and work on getting another core.

[johnnyvann840]

Pacers at 6th in the East is the most underrated thing I see there.

I will not be shocked if DEN wins the West, but no one cares.
All we want is Clippers/Lakers

I really really want to see GSW just bottom out so bad this year

These guys know Khawi left TOR right?

IMO, the Pacers are going to miss Thad and Bogdan. They also won't have Dipo for a while. They may turn it on in March but I suspect they are going to struggle with their win total.

Toronto is going to fall also. Its not just Kawhi. Green too.

Don't sleep on the Pacers. Yeah, Dipo will take a while to get back. But look at their depth chart (projected below) and the relevant ages of those players.

PG: Brogdon (26), Holiday (22), TJ McConnell
SG: [Oladipo (27)], Lamb (27), J.Holiday (30)
SF: Warren (25), McDermott (27)
PF: Sabonis (23), TJ Leaf (22), JaKarr Sampson (26)
CC: Turner (23), Goga (20)

I agree. I really like that Indiana team. Their collection of guards/wings is outstanding with the addition of Brogdon, Warren and Lamb and McConnell. Their front court is really solid too. Sabonis moving into the starting lineup and getting big minutes is going to be huge for them too. He's ready. Per 36 last season he put up 20.1 pts, 13.5 rebs and 4.2 assists. I see a huge breakout season from him and Turner is a solid 5 who can do everything too. I like their rookie Goga as well. They have a good blend of young and veteran two way players. Great recipe for winning and winning in the playoffs too. I could see them coming out of the EC when it's all said and done. They gained MUCH more than they lost.

I like Nate Mac as a coach too.

[Indomitable]

IMO, the Pacers are going to miss Thad and Bogdan. They also won't have Dipo for a while. They may turn it on in March but I suspect they are going to struggle with their win total.

Toronto is going to fall also. Its not just Kawhi. Green too.

Don't sleep on the Pacers. Yeah, Dipo will take a while to get back. But look at their depth chart (projected below) and the relevant ages of those players.

PG: Brogdon (26), Holiday (22), TJ McConnell
SG: [Oladipo (27)], Lamb (27), J.Holiday (30)
SF: Warren (25), McDermott (27)
PF: Sabonis (23), TJ Leaf (22), JaKarr Sampson (26)
CC: Turner (23), Goga (20)

I agree. I really like that Indiana team. Their collection of guards/wings is outstanding with the addition of Brogdon and Lamb and McConnell. Their front court is really solid too. Sabonis moving into the starting lineup and getting big minutes is going to be huge for them too. He's ready. Per 36 last season he put up 20.1 pts, 13.5 rebs and 4.2 assists. I see a huge breakout season from him and Turner is a solid 5 who can do everything too. I like their rookie Goga as well. They have a good blend of young and veteran two way players. Great recipe for winning and winning in the playoffs too. I could see them coming out of the EC when it's all said and done.

I like Nate Mac as a coach too.

Michael Porter had a better chance of playing last year.

Oladipo will not be back until at least February. People make light of that injury but it is a terrible one to have. Especially for a player depends on the ability to run and jump.
https://okcthunderwire.usatoday.com/2018/08/16/nba-players-patellar-tendon-rupture-injury-recovery-time-andre-roberson/

Roberson still has not returned. Tony Parker was a ghost of himself. With this injury they have to open you up to repair. Oladipo being who he was remains a big question marker.
Antonio McDyess went from a 20pt high flyer to a bench player. He never regain his explosiveness.
Caron Butler averaged 19 points per game before the injury, and 9.2 points per game after the injury.
Jeremy Lin went from being a solid NBA before the injury to a guy who over maybe playing over seas.

I have not found one player who ever came back to be who he was prior to the injury.

Roberson has yet to play and no one has comeback the same.

From my personal experience you never regain the strength in the leg you once had.

Indy will win at most 40 games.

[sco]

I think our expected games at around 32 makes sense as a mid-point of possible outcomes. That said, we probably have the widest dispersion of possible outcomes given how much of our improvement will be tied to new guys, young guys and returning from injury guys.

[Indomitable]

I think our expected games at around 32 makes sense as a mid-point of possible outcomes. That said, we probably have the widest dispersion of possible outcomes given how much of our improvement will be tied to new guys, young guys and returning from injury guys.

I believe your wrong.

[johnnyvann840]

Don't sleep on the Pacers. Yeah, Dipo will take a while to get back. But look at their depth chart (projected below) and the relevant ages of those players.

PG: Brogdon (26), Holiday (22), TJ McConnell
SG: [Oladipo (27)], Lamb (27), J.Holiday (30)
SF: Warren (25), McDermott (27)
PF: Sabonis (23), TJ Leaf (22), JaKarr Sampson (26)
CC: Turner (23), Goga (20)

I agree. I really like that Indiana team. Their collection of guards/wings is outstanding with the addition of Brogdon and Lamb and McConnell. Their front court is really solid too. Sabonis moving into the starting lineup and getting big minutes is going to be huge for them too. He's ready. Per 36 last season he put up 20.1 pts, 13.5 rebs and 4.2 assists. I see a huge breakout season from him and Turner is a solid 5 who can do everything too. I like their rookie Goga as well. They have a good blend of young and veteran two way players. Great recipe for winning and winning in the playoffs too. I could see them coming out of the EC when it's all said and done.

I like Nate Mac as a coach too.

Michael Porter had a better chance of playing last year.

Oladipo will not be back until at least February. People make light of that injury but it is a terrible one to have. Especially for a player depends on the ability to run and jump.
https://okcthunderwire.usatoday.com/2018/08/16/nba-players-patellar-tendon-rupture-injury-recovery-time-andre-roberson/

Roberson still has not returned. Tony Parker was a ghost of himself. With this injury they have to open you up to repair. Oladipo being who he was remains a big question marker.
Antonio McDyess went from a 20pt high flyer to a bench player. He never regain his explosiveness.
Caron Butler averaged 19 points per game before the injury, and 9.2 points per game after the injury.
Jeremy Lin went from being a solid NBA before the injury to a guy who over maybe playing over seas.

I have not found one player who ever came back to be who he was prior to the injury.

Roberson has yet to play and no one has comeback the same.

From my personal experience you never regain the strength in the leg you once had.

Indy will win at most 40 games.

I may be wrong but I think Roberson's injury is a little different.. he ruptured his patellar tendon.. it's different than Dipo's injury. Dipo's might by worse. The doctor in the below article says he thinks his injury is a little worse than an ACL, but he thinks Dipo can make a full recovery. Dipo's injury is very rare for an NBA player, especially a young one. Most of the players who this took out were much older guys like Parker and Barkley when it happened to him. It's the same injury Cousins had. Here is an interesting article on it with his doctor talking about the injury...

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/why-one-knee-doctor-says-victor-oladipos-ruptured-quadriceps-tendon-is-worse-than-an-acl-tear/

CBS SPORTS: Bottom line, do you expect Oladipo to make a full recovery?

DR. BENNER: The hard part is even if you get full range of motion back, even if you get all the strength back, there is that unknown part of the equation. Professional athletes have to put incredible stress on that muscle and tendon, whereas a normal person who sustains this injury, they're just looking to restore continuity of the muscle and get as much of the motion and function back as they can. They want to walk normal. Things like that. Victor Oladipo is an incredibly explosive and dynamic athlete. That's one of the things that makes him so special. So he has loftier expectations, or a higher bar if you will, for his recovery.

From a medical standpoint, the tendon is going to heal. If he is able to get his full motion and all the strength in his muscle back, he will be able to return to the explosive athlete he's been. But the thing is: it's hard to recover all that. There is no question that there are some aspects of an injury that might be insurmountable. Results differ from person to person, surgeon to surgeon, athletic trainer to athletic trainer. You just don't know until you get into the rehab and see how the athlete responds, and really, once he's back out there competing and being explosive and athletic.

Also, for the athlete, getting back the same level of strength and range of motion and all those things isn't the only hurdle with an injury like this. It's the mental part, the confidence to jump and land and explode the way an athlete like Oladipo is used to doing. Now, Victor Oladipo seems to be hard working and a really mentally strong guy, so I would say all indications would point to him being able to make a full recovery. But there is an unknown factor with an injury like this.

CBS SPORTS: OK, if you think a full recovery is likely, what about a timetable for his return to the court?

DR. BENNER: I think the goal would be to have him ready for the beginning of the [2019-20] regular season. I think that's a reasonable goal to try to hit. As doctors, we're always trying to set expectations for athletes that are lofty, that will keep the athlete motivated to do better and keep the recovery aggressive, but that are also realistic. You can't just expect that the recovery is going to go all according to plan, so you find that middle ground. October, to me, is a good middle ground. If I was Oladipo's doctor, I would tell him let's shoot for game one to start next season. If we get there, great, and if we don't, it shouldn't be long after.

I've heard that Dipo is going hard at his rehab and could be back sometime in December. A couple weeks ago there was footage of him running sprints. He seems to think he is going to come back stronger than he was. Maybe he doesn't make it back to where he was but I tend to agree with this guy...

https://clutchpoints.com/victor-oladipo-3-bold-predictions-for-the-pacers-star-in-2019-20/

Even without Oladipo, Indy has a really strong roster (better than ours, IMO). They have some of the best shooters in the league in Brogdon and Warren and they have Dougie on the bench. Even if Dipo never came back, that team is still winning more than 40 games, IMO. They need Oladipo back near full strength to compete for the ECF's but if he comes back full strength than watch out for the Pacers.

[madvillian]

I feel like the media has actually been fair with us lately. Most gave us making the playoffs. I think more so Bulls fans underrate the team more than anyone.

It's not rocket science they actually made smart moves for once. Instead of signing bums like Jabari that are all sizzle and no steak they signed guys like Thad and Satoransky. So like most of us fans the media will praise good moves.

[Indomitable]

I agree. I really like that Indiana team. Their collection of guards/wings is outstanding with the addition of Brogdon and Lamb and McConnell. Their front court is really solid too. Sabonis moving into the starting lineup and getting big minutes is going to be huge for them too. He's ready. Per 36 last season he put up 20.1 pts, 13.5 rebs and 4.2 assists. I see a huge breakout season from him and Turner is a solid 5 who can do everything too. I like their rookie Goga as well. They have a good blend of young and veteran two way players. Great recipe for winning and winning in the playoffs too. I could see them coming out of the EC when it's all said and done.

I like Nate Mac as a coach too.

Michael Porter had a better chance of playing last year.

Oladipo will not be back until at least February. People make light of that injury but it is a terrible one to have. Especially for a player depends on the ability to run and jump.
https://okcthunderwire.usatoday.com/2018/08/16/nba-players-patellar-tendon-rupture-injury-recovery-time-andre-roberson/

Roberson still has not returned. Tony Parker was a ghost of himself. With this injury they have to open you up to repair. Oladipo being who he was remains a big question marker.
Antonio McDyess went from a 20pt high flyer to a bench player. He never regain his explosiveness.
Caron Butler averaged 19 points per game before the injury, and 9.2 points per game after the injury.
Jeremy Lin went from being a solid NBA before the injury to a guy who over maybe playing over seas.

I have not found one player who ever came back to be who he was prior to the injury.

Roberson has yet to play and no one has comeback the same.

From my personal experience you never regain the strength in the leg you once had.

Indy will win at most 40 games.

I may be wrong but I think Roberson's injury is a little different.. he ruptured his patellar tendon.. it's different than Dipo's injury. Dipo's might by worse. The doctor in the below article says he thinks his injury is a little worse than an ACL, but he thinks Dipo can make a full recovery. Dipo's injury is very rare for an NBA player, especially a young one. Most of the players who this took our were much older guys like Parker and Barkley when it happened to him. Here is an interesting article on it with his doctor talking about the injury...

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/why-one-knee-doctor-says-victor-oladipos-ruptured-quadriceps-tendon-is-worse-than-an-acl-tear/

CBS SPORTS: Bottom line, do you expect Oladipo to make a full recovery?

DR. BENNER: The hard part is even if you get full range of motion back, even if you get all the strength back, there is that unknown part of the equation. Professional athletes have to put incredible stress on that muscle and tendon, whereas a normal person who sustains this injury, they're just looking to restore continuity of the muscle and get as much of the motion and function back as they can. They want to walk normal. Things like that. Victor Oladipo is an incredibly explosive and dynamic athlete. That's one of the things that makes him so special. So he has loftier expectations, or a higher bar if you will, for his recovery.

From a medical standpoint, the tendon is going to heal. If he is able to get his full motion and all the strength in his muscle back, he will be able to return to the explosive athlete he's been. But the thing is: it's hard to recover all that. There is no question that there are some aspects of an injury that might be insurmountable. Results differ from person to person, surgeon to surgeon, athletic trainer to athletic trainer. You just don't know until you get into the rehab and see how the athlete responds, and really, once he's back out there competing and being explosive and athletic.

Also, for the athlete, getting back the same level of strength and range of motion and all those things isn't the only hurdle with an injury like this. It's the mental part, the confidence to jump and land and explode the way an athlete like Oladipo is used to doing. Now, Victor Oladipo seems to be hard working and a really mentally strong guy, so I would say all indications would point to him being able to make a full recovery. But there is an unknown factor with an injury like this.

CBS SPORTS: OK, if you think a full recovery is likely, what about a timetable for his return to the court?

DR. BENNER: I think the goal would be to have him ready for the beginning of the [2019-20] regular season. I think that's a reasonable goal to try to hit. As doctors, we're always trying to set expectations for athletes that are lofty, that will keep the athlete motivated to do better and keep the recovery aggressive, but that are also realistic. You can't just expect that the recovery is going to go all according to plan, so you find that middle ground. October, to me, is a good middle ground. If I was Oladipo's doctor, I would tell him let's shoot for game one to start next season. If we get there, great, and if we don't, it shouldn't be long after.

I've heard that Dipo is going hard at his rehab and could be back sometime in December. A couple weeks ago there was footage of him running sprints. He seems to think he is going to come back stronger than he was. Maybe he doesn't make it back to where he was but I tend to agree with this guy...

https://clutchpoints.com/victor-oladipo-3-bold-predictions-for-the-pacers-star-in-2019-20/

Even without Oladipo, Indy has a really strong roster (better than ours, IMO). They have some of the best shooters in the league in Brogdon and Warren and they have Dougie on the bench. Even if Dipo never came back, that team is still winning more than 40 games, IMO. They need Oladipo back near full strength to compete for the ECF's but if he comes back full strength than watch out for the Pacers.

I am willing bet you on that. Without Oladipo they are worst or at best even.

Turner vs Wendell
Sabonis vs Lauri
Warren vs Otto
Lamb vs Lavine
Brogdon vs Tomas
Benches
McDermott vs Valentine
Tj Leaf vs Young
Holiday vs Dunn

There is nothing special about this squad.

[Indomitable]

Olapido will not be himself this season. Name the last time a player came off this type of injury where he was. Actually any leg injury. He might make it back but he most likely will not be what he was this season. He probably will struggle with injuries all season.

[madvillian]

Olapido will not be himself this season. Name the last time a player came off this type of injury where he was. Actually any leg injury. He might make it back but he most likely will not be what he was this season. He probably will struggle with injuries all season.

Very nasty injury. Much worse than an ACL. I'd be surprised if he can play for 5 years at 80% of his prior self.