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Expectations for Hutchison and Val: Hutch injured p3

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Re: Expectations for Hutchison and Valentine 

Post#21 » by TheFinishSniper » Sat Aug 24, 2019 2:43 am

Red Larrivee wrote:
TheFinishSniper wrote:
Red Larrivee wrote:If Valentine is healthy, then I have no concerns about his ability to be a solid NBA reserve.

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thing with guys like val is you dont want them to spend time and years for him to develop. its waste of capspace and you hurting your wins record. you want to sign him for bench minimum in FA when he develops as useful to a team and your capspace. everythin else is waste of time with guys like Val specially taking them in draft at what end of lottery. so i couldnt care less about his ability or not "to be".


Valentine is making a whopping $1M more than the minimum.

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thats not whole point. it's eventually someone else benefiting from us developing him when in grand scheme of things guys like him you can get any summer any time for minimum. hence why I dislike spending lottery picks on guy like him, even if they are late ones.
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Re: Expectations for Hutchison and Valentine 

Post#22 » by erlim » Sat Aug 24, 2019 3:11 am

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Re: Expectations for Hutchison and Valentine 

Post#23 » by othawhitemeat » Sat Aug 24, 2019 4:02 am

I am expecting MVP type seasons.
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Re: Expectations for Hutchison and Valentine 

Post#24 » by nomorezorro » Sat Aug 24, 2019 5:07 am

honestly if valentine is about as good as he was the last time he was healthy and hutchison modestly improves from how he finished last season, they're both...acceptable bench wings who provide solid shooting + defense, respectively

the problem is that neither of them are guaranteed to perform that well
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Re: Expectations for Hutchison and Valentine 

Post#25 » by donaldtrump_00 » Sat Aug 24, 2019 6:55 am

madvillian wrote:I have zero expectations for Val. Not much more for Hutch. Hutch I think can be a decent 8th man but I don't see him exceeding that role this year or in his career frankly. I think he's got major issues to overcome including lack of offensive skill and motor. Defensively he can be an asset off the bench but he's a liability on offense until he either gets a shot or a better handle and is able to finish around the rim more efficiently.

I think the Bulls are going to use Dunn off ball quite a bit so he can be another wing in essence. They will need it because as I said I don't expect Val to play at all.



Wait... Be patient. Hutchinson was actually good after holiday was traded. He was picking up his intensity. And you said he needs better handles? His handles are very good for a SF. Did we already forget why we Drafted him in the first place? Because of his Pippen like style. It's all there. He looked mighty aggressive in summer league to. He played half a rookie season and being wrote off. I think bulls fans are in for a pleasant surprise. I see potential all over him. Let him make his mistakes and realize his potential. It's kinda high if you ask me.
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Re: Expectations for Hutchison and Valentine 

Post#26 » by rtblues » Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:19 am

TeamMan wrote:
transplant wrote:It's pretty clear that Paxson hoped to trade Dunn for a veteran wing and it's becoming increasingly clear that he's not going to be able to pull this off. This means Chandler Hutchison and Denzell Valentine are going to be expected to be legit NBA wings, logging 15+mpg. I know that Valentine's physical situation is still iffy, but for this purpose, I want to assume he'll be ready to go. What will each be able to contribute per 36?

I watched a decent amount of Hutchison's college tape and was impressed. He's athletic, can defend, run the court and finish. The question then and now is shooting accuracy, particularly from distance.

Valentine is kind of Hutchison's inverse...not particularly athletic, but smart and can shoot the 3.

The presence of Young should help both of these players since they won't have to force their offense as much as they have in the past. I'll take 11-6-3 per 36 for Hutchison and 13-5-4 for Valentine.

Thoughts?

Some thoughts on the bold parts...

- It's my understanding that the Bulls have 16 players under contract. I suspect that some type of deal will be made before the end on training camp, and most likely Dunn will be involved.

- Hutch is 1000% better in the open court. During Summer League I got the feeling that he'd been working on his 3P shooting, and it was coming along.

- Valentine probably won't see much PT until his physical status can be confirmed. If he is still with the team late in the season, he could be a factor with his 3P shooting and BB-IQ.

- More than Young, I think that Coby White will have a big effect on these two players. Most likely one them will be playing with Coby off the bench. Both are good passers and will be happy to have a player that can hit open shots and get them some Asts. This was already happening with Hutch and Coby during Summer League. Coby is also the perfect player to get out and run with them on the break, so we could see a lot of scoring off the bench.

Um, Sato?
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Re: Expectations for Hutchison and Valentine 

Post#27 » by rtblues » Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:20 am

My hope for Hutchison is that his name stop being used in the same sentence as Scottie Pippen's name.
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Re: Expectations for Hutchison and Valentine 

Post#28 » by Red Larrivee » Sat Aug 24, 2019 2:32 pm

TheFinishSniper wrote:thats not whole point. it's eventually someone else benefiting from us developing him when in grand scheme of things guys like him you can get any summer any time for minimum. hence why I dislike spending lottery picks on guy like him, even if they are late ones.


That's how the NBA works; teams constantly find, develop, and let go of players for a variety of reasons. Valentine has been making peanuts for the last 3 years. He's never made more than $2.3 million until this season. Ideally, you'd love to draft players better than him, but it wasn't a strong draft in his range. Given Valentine's production before the injury, the Bulls could've done a lot worse.

Here are the 10 players drafted after Valentine:

Juan Hernangomez
Guerschon Yabusele
Wade Baldwin
Henry Ellenson
Malik Beasley
Caris LeVert
DeAndre Bembry
Malachi Richardson
Ante Zizic
Timothe Luwawu-Caborot

It's much to do about nothing. Like I said, if Valentine is legitimately over his injury, then I have zero concern about him to be a respectable NBA reserve. In fact, I think Valentine's skillset becomes desireable for his ability to play multiple positions, shoot, rebound, and pass.

The issue is purely injury with Valentine. There's not much information about his recovery.
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Re: Expectations for Hutchison and Valentine 

Post#29 » by TheFinishSniper » Sat Aug 24, 2019 2:35 pm

Valentine didnt play NBA game for now year and half and it will be 2 years when season starts. His career as NBA player is done. There is no "recovery" timeline for him.
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Re: Expectations for Hutchison and Valentine 

Post#30 » by Red Larrivee » Sat Aug 24, 2019 2:41 pm

TheFinishSniper wrote:Valentine didnt play NBA game for now year and half and it will be 2 years when season starts. His career as NBA player is done. There is no "recovery" timeline for him.


Valentine's last game was April 2018. Take out the offseason and he'll have missed a year of actual NBA time.

What's your source for declaring the end of his NBA career?
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Re: Expectations for Hutchison and Valentine 

Post#31 » by TheFinishSniper » Sat Aug 24, 2019 2:57 pm

Red Larrivee wrote:
TheFinishSniper wrote:Valentine didnt play NBA game for now year and half and it will be 2 years when season starts. His career as NBA player is done. There is no "recovery" timeline for him.


Valentine's last game was April 2018. Take out the offseason and he'll have missed a year of actual NBA time.

What's your source for declaring the end of his NBA career?

You forget Valentine is still not cleared healthy. He is technically still in rehab. It's "expected" he will be ready for training camp. But he actually really will miss 2 years of full basketball activities, given he will miss at that point two offseason + full NBA season
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Re: Expectations for Hutchison and Valentine 

Post#32 » by Red Larrivee » Sat Aug 24, 2019 3:02 pm

TheFinishSniper wrote:
Red Larrivee wrote:
TheFinishSniper wrote:Valentine didnt play NBA game for now year and half and it will be 2 years when season starts. His career as NBA player is done. There is no "recovery" timeline for him.


Valentine's last game was April 2018. Take out the offseason and he'll have missed a year of actual NBA time.

What's your source for declaring the end of his NBA career?


You forget Valentine is still not cleared healthy. He is technically still in rehab. It's "expected" he will be ready for training camp. But he actually really will miss 2 years of full basketball activities, given he will miss at that point two offseason + full NBA season


That's not how it works. Also, Valentine didn't miss last offseason. He injured his ankle on the first day of training camp last year. It's not two years off.


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Re: Expectations for Hutchison and Valentine 

Post#33 » by R3AL1TY » Sat Aug 24, 2019 6:08 pm

If they stay healthy, I expect them to show more of the same. Valentine giving you a little of everything with solid 3 pt shooting, and Hutch giving you defense and good transition offense.
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Re: Expectations for Hutchison and Valentine 

Post#34 » by MrFortune3 » Sat Aug 24, 2019 6:27 pm

Valentine was a terrible pick to begin with so I never expected him to be more than what he is now.
Hutch, I think people got way too hyped about him last season. I expect him to continue to develop and be a key role player for us.
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Re: Expectations for Hutchison and Valentine 

Post#35 » by transplant » Sat Aug 24, 2019 9:22 pm

I've read here that all kinds of Bulls non-wings can effectively defend NBA wings. I find this interesting.

Personally, I greatly admire Arcidiacano...kid's got all kinds of grit. The only NBA wings I want to see him try to defend are PGs playing out of position. Otherwise, you're doing the opponent a favor. Dunn can defend smaller wings, but he's a "dead man walking" as far as the Bulls are concerned and hurts you on offense at the wing. Theoretically, Young can defend bigger/slower wings...he just hasn't done it in a much (according to basketball ref) and I can't help but wonder why.

Add to this that just about every poster here understandably has expressed concern about key players' health. Even if they stay reasonably healthy, they won't be perfectly healthy and players like Hutchison and Valentine are going to be important. Not surprisingly, from this thread expectations for these two range from "Zilch" to solid contributors. All I'm saying is that, for those who hope that the Bulls will exceed expectations, it's unreasonable to hold these expectations if you think both Hutchison and Valentine will "suck and blow."
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Re: Expectations for Hutchison and Valentine 

Post#36 » by donaldtrump_00 » Sun Aug 25, 2019 4:36 am

transplant wrote:I've read here that all kinds of Bulls non-wings can effectively defend NBA wings. I find this interesting.

Personally, I greatly admire Arcidiacano...kid's got all kinds of grit. The only NBA wings I want to see him try to defend are PGs playing out of position. Otherwise, you're doing the opponent a favor. Dunn can defend smaller wings, but he's a "dead man walking" as far as the Bulls are concerned and hurts you on offense at the wing. Theoretically, Young can defend bigger/slower wings...he just hasn't done it in a much (according to basketball ref) and I can't help but wonder why.

Add to this that just about every poster here understandably has expressed concern about key players' health. Even if they stay reasonably healthy, they won't be perfectly healthy and players like Hutchison and Valentine are going to be important. Not surprisingly, from this thread expectations for these two range from "Zilch" to solid contributors. All I'm saying is that, for those who hope that the Bulls will exceed expectations, it's unreasonable to hold these expectations if you think both Hutchison and Valentine will "suck and blow."



Yall are way to funny. It's no pressure on any of them to fail. Hutchinson or valentine are getting a chance to fulfill a role. Actually val has proven what he can do. He wanted to start telling you he's confident in his game. He just got injured. I bet he wouldve made a big difference had he played last season,especially after Jabari was demoted. It was Hutchinson who was out the rotation. Holiday also contributed to the open mins at SF. My guess this season is Hutchinson will outplay every sf outside of Porter. Val can slide to the 2. Sato can play pg, sg,sf. Dunn will be starting but get 20 mins. As the year wears on we will see who deserves more time. And then the e demotion starts. Injuries happen and someone will take advantage big time. If val is ready to go I see no reason he want be a big contributor.
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Re: Expectations for Hutchison and Valentine 

Post#37 » by Showtime23 » Sun Aug 25, 2019 11:18 am

R3AL1TY wrote:If they stay healthy, I expect them to show more of the same. Valentine giving you a little of everything with solid 3 pt shooting, and Hutch giving you defense and good transition offense.


Are they really worth giving up playing time? The sad truth is they might be out of the league if there is no significant improvement.
Knowing they are role players at best, I would get rid of them for late 1st/bunch of 2nds and get veterans at the min.
Notably, Noah, Simmons, Faried, Holiday and even Melo comes to mind. All of them will contribute much more esp in playoffs.
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Re: Expectations for Hutchison and Valentine 

Post#38 » by Indomitable » Sun Aug 25, 2019 11:26 am

Red Larrivee wrote:
TheFinishSniper wrote:
Red Larrivee wrote:If Valentine is healthy, then I have no concerns about his ability to be a solid NBA reserve.

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thing with guys like val is you dont want them to spend time and years for him to develop. its waste of capspace and you hurting your wins record. you want to sign him for bench minimum in FA when he develops as useful to a team and your capspace. everythin else is waste of time with guys like Val specially taking them in draft at what end of lottery. so i couldnt care less about his ability or not "to be".


Valentine is making a whopping $1M more than the minimum.

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This is true and I wanted LeVert in that draft. Valentine is a shooter with some offensive skills.
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Re: Expectations for Hutchison and Valentine 

Post#39 » by R3AL1TY » Mon Aug 26, 2019 1:53 am

Showtime23 wrote:
R3AL1TY wrote:If they stay healthy, I expect them to show more of the same. Valentine giving you a little of everything with solid 3 pt shooting, and Hutch giving you defense and good transition offense.


Are they really worth giving up playing time? The sad truth is they might be out of the league if there is no significant improvement.
Knowing they are role players at best, I would get rid of them for late 1st/bunch of 2nds and get veterans at the min.
Notably, Noah, Simmons, Faried, Holiday and even Melo comes to mind. All of them will contribute much more esp in playoffs.
Valentine to me is a keeper if he stays healthy. He was showing more value than even McDermott before he went down for a long time yet teams are still giving McD some burn to this day. Hutch will have to show more in the half-court to be even a consideration.

I wouldn't mind Noah coming back. Simmons is another guy I wouldn't mind if Hutch doesn't pan out. I think Melo may join the Nets.
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Re: Expectations for Hutchison and Valentine 

Post#40 » by bearadonisdna » Mon Aug 26, 2019 4:26 am

The bar is pretty low to become a 12 mil per year wing.
Both these guys are so close but yet so far.

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