Pippen trade many may not be aware of (Clippers)

[kulaz3000]

Perhaps others have heard about this one but besides the Sonics trade deal which didn't go through, I didn't know that the Clippers also put in an offer.

This rumor was relayed by Jack Silverstein on the Bulls Gold podcast (a must listen!), where the Clippers deal involved, the Clippers first round pick on 95 & 96, and draft pick swap in 97 and 98.

Now I was never a fan of the Sonics deal, however, this Clippers deal is compelling, because of the talent involved in those drafts. Of course, with Pippen on the team, it would have probably secured the Clippers a few more wins which would have lowered their draft position, but here are some of the players which came out of those respective draft classes;

95 - McDyess, Rasheed Wallace and of course, KG.

96 - Iverson, Camby, Shareef, Marbury, Ray Allen, Kobe, Nash, Stojakovic and JO.

97 - Tim Duncan, Billups, and McGrady.

98 - Bibby, Jamison, Carter, Dirk, and Paul Pierce.

Again, not saying that with Pippen that Clippers would have continued to have been that bad, and to be clear, of course, I still prefer the instance where Jordan returned, rejoined Pippen and won another 3 chips, however, if this deal went through, the Bulls would of been part of some fascinating drafts with some game-changing talent.

I can't stress enough, listen to this podcast below:

Bulls Gold - episode 52: "Inside the Dynasty"

Jack Silverstein (Sports Historian and Author of "How the GOAT was Built") joined us to for an in-depth look at the Chicago Bulls dynasties. Jack discusses Michael Jordan's first retirement, the Bulls' numerous attempts to trade Scottie Pippen, Phil Jackson's relationship with Jordan and Pippen, the biggest differences between the 91-93 and 96-98 Bulls dynasties, and much more. 

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[AKfanatic]

I remember hearing that Krause was extremely high on Garnett and desperately wanted him for the next chapter of the Bulls.

I think much of that desire for Garnett led to his trading for/drafting of Chandler.

Would’ve been an interesting “what if” had Jerry managed to trade Pip and bring back Garnett. That move would’ve had quite the butterfly effect.

[Dominator83]

Perhaps others have heard about this one but besides the Sonics trade deal which didn't go through, I didn't know that the Clippers also put in an offer.

This rumor was relayed by Jack Silverstein on the Bulls Gold podcast (a must listen!), where the Clippers deal involved, the Clippers first round pick on 95 & 96, and draft pick swap in 97 and 98.

Now I was never a fan of the Sonics deal, however, this Clippers deal is compelling, because of the talent involved in those drafts. Of course, with Pippen on the team, it would have probably secured the Clippers a few more wins which would have lowered their draft position, but here are some of the players which came out of those respective draft classes;

95 - McDyess, Rasheed Wallace and of course, KG.

96 - Iverson, Camby, Shareef, Marbury, Ray Allen, Kobe, Nash, Stojakovic and JO.

97 - Tim Duncan, Billups, and McGrady.

98 - Bibby, Jamison, Carter, Dirk, and Paul Pierce.

Again, not saying that with Pippen that Clippers would have continued to have been that bad, and to be clear, of course, I still prefer the instance where Jordan returned, rejoined Pippen and won another 3 chips, however, if this deal went through, the Bulls would of been part of some fascinating drafts with some game-changing talent.

I can't stress enough, listen to this podcast below:

Bulls Gold - episode 52: "Inside the Dynasty"

Jack Silverstein (Sports Historian and Author of "How the GOAT was Built") joined us to for an in-depth look at the Chicago Bulls dynasties. Jack discusses Michael Jordan's first retirement, the Bulls' numerous attempts to trade Scottie Pippen, Phil Jackson's relationship with Jordan and Pippen, the biggest differences between the 91-93 and 96-98 Bulls dynasties, and much more. 

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itunes

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I thought the rule of not being allowed to trade consecutive 1st rounders has been in place for longer than that

[kulaz3000]

I thought the rule of not being allowed to trade consecutive 1st rounders has been in place for longer than that

Good catch.

You're right, I think the NBA disallowed trading consequtive picks in 81, so you're right, this trade rumor likely wasn't exactly how it was relayed. But a cavet that I didn't relay was that this trade package (or somomething along these lines) was in the works before the 95 trade deadline, so I'm guessing Jerrys goal was to pick KG, and was happy with draft swaps with the remainder of the picks regardless of what the complete deal was.

[RedBulls23]

Perhaps others have heard about this one but besides the Sonics trade deal which didn't go through, I didn't know that the Clippers also put in an offer.

This rumor was relayed by Jack Silverstein on the Bulls Gold podcast (a must listen!), where the Clippers deal involved, the Clippers first round pick on 95 & 96, and draft pick swap in 97 and 98.

Now I was never a fan of the Sonics deal, however, this Clippers deal is compelling, because of the talent involved in those drafts. Of course, with Pippen on the team, it would have probably secured the Clippers a few more wins which would have lowered their draft position, but here are some of the players which came out of those respective draft classes;

95 - McDyess, Rasheed Wallace and of course, KG.

96 - Iverson, Camby, Shareef, Marbury, Ray Allen, Kobe, Nash, Stojakovic and JO.

97 - Tim Duncan, Billups, and McGrady.

98 - Bibby, Jamison, Carter, Dirk, and Paul Pierce.

Again, not saying that with Pippen that Clippers would have continued to have been that bad, and to be clear, of course, I still prefer the instance where Jordan returned, rejoined Pippen and won another 3 chips, however, if this deal went through, the Bulls would of been part of some fascinating drafts with some game-changing talent.

I can't stress enough, listen to this podcast below:

Bulls Gold - episode 52: "Inside the Dynasty"

Jack Silverstein (Sports Historian and Author of "How the GOAT was Built") joined us to for an in-depth look at the Chicago Bulls dynasties. Jack discusses Michael Jordan's first retirement, the Bulls' numerous attempts to trade Scottie Pippen, Phil Jackson's relationship with Jordan and Pippen, the biggest differences between the 91-93 and 96-98 Bulls dynasties, and much more. 

Podbean

itunes

Spotify

I thought the rule of not being allowed to trade consecutive 1st rounders has been in place for longer than that

I think the rule is a little more nuanced than that. I believe it only applies to drafts That occur after the trade, and the team stays in compliance if they also acquire another draft pick from another team.

Here is the rule explained in more detail:

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2012/06/ted-stepien-rule.html

[HomoSapien]

Very interesting. I had never heard of this rumor before. I understand why the Bulls passed in the end. Aside from likely angering Jordan, it would have immediately taken us out of real contention and the Clippers would have likely been competing for a playoff spot. The tougher trade was the one with the Celtics when we knew how good those picks were (we were targeting Mercer & TMac I believe).

As for the Kemp trade --- Pippen is one of my favorite players of All-Time, but there is a small part of me that would have loved to have seen Kemp dunking on fools in a Bulls jersey. I think we would've still won rings easily with him, and in many ways we would've been a more balanced team with Kemp bringing a big man game and Kukoc getting a chance as a full-time starter. Still, I think keeping Pippen was ultimately the smart move even if it is fun to think about other superstars on this franchise.

[RedBulls23]

Very interesting. I had never heard of this rumor before. I understand why the Bulls passed in the end. Aside from likely angering Jordan, it would have immediately taken us out of real contention and the Clippers would have likely been competing for a playoff spot. The tougher trade was the one with the Celtics when we knew how good those picks were (we were targeting Mercer & TMac I believe).

As for the Kemp trade --- Pippen is one of my favorite players of All-Time, but there is a small part of me that would have loved to have seen Kemp dunking on fools in a Bulls jersey. I think we would've still won rings easily with him, and in many ways we would've been a more balanced team with Kemp bringing a big man game and Kukoc getting a chance as a full-time starter. Still, I think keeping Pippen was ultimately the smart move even if it is fun to think about other superstars on this franchise.

According to Jack, the reason the trade didn't go down was because Scottie nixed it due to Ron Harper telling him the Clippers organization sucked.

Pretty much evertime a Scottie trade fell apart, it wasn't because Krause didn't want to pull the trigger.

[kulaz3000]

Very interesting. I had never heard of this rumor before. I understand why the Bulls passed in the end. Aside from likely angering Jordan, it would have immediately taken us out of real contention and the Clippers would have likely been competing for a playoff spot. The tougher trade was the one with the Celtics when we knew how good those picks were (we were targeting Mercer & TMac I believe).

As for the Kemp trade --- Pippen is one of my favorite players of All-Time, but there is a small part of me that would have loved to have seen Kemp dunking on fools in a Bulls jersey. I think we would've still won rings easily with him, and in many ways we would've been a more balanced team with Kemp bringing a big man game and Kukoc getting a chance as a full-time starter. Still, I think keeping Pippen was ultimately the smart move even if it is fun to think about other superstars on this franchise.

It sure would have been interesting with Kemp, and maybe you're right, we do win another Championship with him, Jordan and the rest of the gang, however, I don't think we 3peat again, that I'm almost certain of.

With the way the triangle was run, Pippen was intergral to it with his ability to be a ball handler and faciliator. Kemp was not going to help in that regard, and he wasn't exactly the greatest defender either. But boy would it have been interesting to see Kemp and Jordan on the same team, but more interesting for me is if the Clippers deal went through, and KG was on the team.

[WICKED17]

We’ll never know but honestly, I believe we’d still of 3 peated with Kemp. As someone else mentioned Toni would then most likely have slotted in to Pips starting spot. Question then becomes do Bulls pull trigger on scrub Perdue for Rodman, I think Krause absolutely still would have, thus slotting Rodman off the bench instead of Toni. In this scenario Harper would of been asked to score a bit more in the starting unit, instead off completely sacrificing his offensive game to the level that he did.
Harper
MJ
Toni
Kemp
Longley, with Rodman off the bench at say the 6 minute mark.
Obviously none off us would change a thing, but interesting hypothetical

[troza]

I like these topics to learn more about the dynasty. It is the first time I'm learning about this rumor but it is fun to see how Jerry Krause was ready to move on to the next phase... Garnett, McGrady... all very nice players to keep the Bulls on top and still with Jordan. The "what if" scenarios is a very nice discussion... I would say no to a second 3-peat (obviously), but what if the Bulls and Jackson stayed for longer? Jordan without injuries in 2000 with McGrady or Garnett... we would be on finals for some years. Not in 96 (Magic with Shaq and Penny would still beat us, I think) but from there we don't know.

Pippen was very important on defense but he actually played a lot better in the first 3-peat than on the second but I don't know.

The funny thing is... 3-peat and years without being relevant or actually the chance to be relevant for lots of years but with how many titles?


About Kemp for Pippen... I doubt we would win a 3-peat cause Kemp wasn't the same after 96... but that first one with might have a chance.


As for now... as this was before 96, I would hope that the Bulls were more active getting resources... Meaning that I hope that the Bulls don't fall in love with players that are good but not championship material.

[NDave79]

Considering we were able to trade Perdue for Rodman, I’d easily take Pippen over Kemp.

IMO, Jordan, Pippen, and Rodman were basically a perfect trio with respect to their skills and personality’s.

[dougthonus]

This rumor was relayed by Jack Silverstein on the Bulls Gold podcast (a must listen!), where the Clippers deal involved, the Clippers first round pick on 95 & 96, and draft pick swap in 97 and 98.

If this was taking place in summer of 94 with the time of the Kemp rumor than this trade doesn't make sense. You couldn't trade back to back picks so 95/96 wouldn't be possible and the Clippers didn't have multiple picks in either draft, so if the rumors were around the time of the Kemp rumor (summer of 94) then it wouldn't have been possible to offer this up.

Also, I don't think any team had ever done a pick swap in the 90s. I think the Eddy Curry trade was the first pick swap which was many years later. It's hard for me to imagine in the summer of 94 someone had this idea, but then we didn't see it executed by any franchise until more than a decade later (could possibly be wrong on this though).

Also makes little sense to do 2 up front picks and 2 pick swaps later. Just doesn't reflect how FOs worked back then (or now).

[ATRAIN53]

Nice, I don't know Jack (remember that game?)

but sounds like a local guy who is preserving the past. Will have to check out the podcast and his twitter.
I'm a big fan of Bulls history stuff so this is right up my alley.

I remember the Pip for Kemp trade defacto-

but Pip to the Clip?

Don't remember that, but of you look at that Clippers roster you would have been putting Pippen with an aging Mark Aguirre and Nique!
That would have been pretty cool to see Scottie and Nique together.

Scottie would have been ripe for hollywood types telling him he was better than MJ and Mj was retired and it was HIS NBA now.
He wanted his payday badly back then too.

[RedBulls23]

This rumor was relayed by Jack Silverstein on the Bulls Gold podcast (a must listen!), where the Clippers deal involved, the Clippers first round pick on 95 & 96, and draft pick swap in 97 and 98.

If this was taking place in summer of 94 with the time of the Kemp rumor than this trade doesn't make sense. You couldn't trade back to back picks so 95/96 wouldn't be possible and the Clippers didn't have multiple picks in either draft, so if the rumors were around the time of the Kemp rumor (summer of 94) then it wouldn't have been possible to offer this up.

Also, I don't think any team had ever done a pick swap in the 90s. I think the Eddy Curry trade was the first pick swap which was many years later. It's hard for me to imagine in the summer of 94 someone had this idea, but then we didn't see it executed by any franchise until more than a decade later (could possibly be wrong on this though).

Also makes little sense to do 2 up front picks and 2 pick swaps later. Just doesn't reflect how FOs worked back then (or now).

The Clippers trade wasn't talked about in 94. It was right before Jordan came back in 95.

The consecutive pick trade is more nuanced.
https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2012/06/ted-stepien-rule.html

Draft day deals of pick swaps happened a few times. Just not future pick swaps. That doesn't mean the trade wasn't talked about though. Also, trying to make risky moves is exactly what Jerry Krause was about.

[johnnyvann840]

Very interesting. I had never heard of this rumor before. I understand why the Bulls passed in the end. Aside from likely angering Jordan, it would have immediately taken us out of real contention and the Clippers would have likely been competing for a playoff spot. The tougher trade was the one with the Celtics when we knew how good those picks were (we were targeting Mercer & TMac I believe).

As for the Kemp trade --- Pippen is one of my favorite players of All-Time, but there is a small part of me that would have loved to have seen Kemp dunking on fools in a Bulls jersey. I think we would've still won rings easily with him, and in many ways we would've been a more balanced team with Kemp bringing a big man game and Kukoc getting a chance as a full-time starter. Still, I think keeping Pippen was ultimately the smart move even if it is fun to think about other superstars on this franchise.

According to Jack, the reason the trade didn't go down was because Scottie nixed it due to Ron Harper telling him the Clippers organization sucked.

Pretty much evertime a Scottie trade fell apart, it wasn't because Krause didn't want to pull the trigger.

The reason the Sonics trade didn't happen was their owner vetoed it at the last minute, but that was a done deal. The Clippers deal I'm not sure if it was ever even that close to happening. Scottie didn't have the power to "nix" anything. He never had a no trade clause. Jordan tried to force a no trade clause for Scottie put into Jordan's own deal, but Reinsdorf never gave it to him.

Reinsdorf did, however, tell the Tribune he had no intention of guaranteeing Jordan that Scottie Pippen would not be traded. Jordan sought to have a no-trade provision for Pippen included in his contract after the Bulls entertained offers for Pippen before the June NBA draft. Pippen is in the final year of an eight-year deal with the Bulls. - August 28, 1997

[RedBulls23]

Very interesting. I had never heard of this rumor before. I understand why the Bulls passed in the end. Aside from likely angering Jordan, it would have immediately taken us out of real contention and the Clippers would have likely been competing for a playoff spot. The tougher trade was the one with the Celtics when we knew how good those picks were (we were targeting Mercer & TMac I believe).

As for the Kemp trade --- Pippen is one of my favorite players of All-Time, but there is a small part of me that would have loved to have seen Kemp dunking on fools in a Bulls jersey. I think we would've still won rings easily with him, and in many ways we would've been a more balanced team with Kemp bringing a big man game and Kukoc getting a chance as a full-time starter. Still, I think keeping Pippen was ultimately the smart move even if it is fun to think about other superstars on this franchise.

According to Jack, the reason the trade didn't go down was because Scottie nixed it due to Ron Harper telling him the Clippers organization sucked.

Pretty much evertime a Scottie trade fell apart, it wasn't because Krause didn't want to pull the trigger.

The reason the Sonics trade didn't happen was their owner vetoed it at the last minute, but that was a done deal. The Clippers deal I'm not sure if it was ever even that close to happening. Scottie didn't have the power to "nix" anything. He never had a no trade clause. Jordan tried to force a no trade clause for Scottie put into Jordan's own deal, but Reinsdorf never gave it to him.

Reinsdorf did, however, tell the Tribune he had no intention of guaranteeing Jordan that Scottie Pippen would not be traded. Jordan sought to have a no-trade provision for Pippen included in his contract after the Bulls entertained offers for Pippen before the June NBA draft. Pippen is in the final year of an eight-year deal with the Bulls. - August 28, 1997

Sorry to be clear, Pippen didn't want to sign an extension with the Clippers that is why the trade didn't happen.

[dougthonus]

The Clippers trade wasn't talked about in 94. It was right before Jordan came back in 95.

The consecutive pick trade is more nuanced.
https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2012/06/ted-stepien-rule.html

Draft day deals of pick swaps happened a few times. Just not future pick swaps. That doesn't mean the trade wasn't talked about though. Also, trying to make risky moves is exactly what Jerry Krause was about.

Ahh, haven't listened to the show yet. In 95 you could do it because you make the pick and trade after the draft.

Seems really odd that you would do 2 future pick swaps rather than outright picks though. Also seems like something that would have been a real stretch when Jordan was already back. Still interesting of course, but hard to believe.

[Jeffster81]

As for the Kemp trade --- Pippen is one of my favorite players of All-Time, but there is a small part of me that would have loved to have seen Kemp dunking on fools in a Bulls jersey. I think we would've still won rings easily with him, and in many ways we would've been a more balanced team with Kemp bringing a big man game and Kukoc getting a chance as a full-time starter. Still, I think keeping Pippen was ultimately the smart move even if it is fun to think about other superstars on this franchise.

Same here. The thought of Jordan and Kemp on the same team is dream worthy. But considering how Kemp's career went post-Seattle, I'm glad that trade never happen.

[TheFinishSniper]

I only care about what happened. Not if scenarios. Usually it's bad road down that way. But seems in Bulls case even those what happened seems bad so. Continue.

[Michael Jackson]

Very interesting. I had never heard of this rumor before. I understand why the Bulls passed in the end. Aside from likely angering Jordan, it would have immediately taken us out of real contention and the Clippers would have likely been competing for a playoff spot. The tougher trade was the one with the Celtics when we knew how good those picks were (we were targeting Mercer & TMac I believe).

As for the Kemp trade --- Pippen is one of my favorite players of All-Time, but there is a small part of me that would have loved to have seen Kemp dunking on fools in a Bulls jersey. I think we would've still won rings easily with him, and in many ways we would've been a more balanced team with Kemp bringing a big man game and Kukoc getting a chance as a full-time starter. Still, I think keeping Pippen was ultimately the smart move even if it is fun to think about other superstars on this franchise.

According to Jack, the reason the trade didn't go down was because Scottie nixed it due to Ron Harper telling him the Clippers organization sucked.

Pretty much evertime a Scottie trade fell apart, it wasn't because Krause didn't want to pull the trigger.

How could Harper have anything bad to say about Donald Sterling? That just doesn’t make sense. A wonderful owner, landlord and husband not to mention a great overall human being.