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Re: Denzel Valentine injury update thread

Posted: Wed Oct 9, 2019 1:10 am
by Showtime23
sco wrote:Back to Valentine.

I know he looked a bit slow and a little out of shape last night, but it was great to see him on the floor. I will also say that many are painting him as "Jabari out-of-shape", I think he looked better than a guy who has been limited for so long. He looked a little thick and a little slow, but much better than I feared.

Also, his shooting and passing didn't look rusty at all.

I am optimistic that he will be back to where he was pre-injury by January and could become a real contributor for 10-15 mpg. You could put him out with Coby, Hutch, Thad and Luke and he could be a great floor spacer and 2nd play maker.


Pretty much what I expected.
He always had the skillset which was why he was a lottery prospect.
But his issue is his athleticism is limited to the point it makes his overall game much less effective.
I dont think its just out of shape. The guy is pretty much limping and lost all the quickness.
Pretty sure there are better garbagemen they can pick up since he wont guard a chair.

Re: Denzel Valentine injury update thread

Posted: Wed Oct 9, 2019 3:12 am
by WindyCityBorn
Showtime23 wrote:
sco wrote:Back to Valentine.

I know he looked a bit slow and a little out of shape last night, but it was great to see him on the floor. I will also say that many are painting him as "Jabari out-of-shape", I think he looked better than a guy who has been limited for so long. He looked a little thick and a little slow, but much better than I feared.

Also, his shooting and passing didn't look rusty at all.

I am optimistic that he will be back to where he was pre-injury by January and could become a real contributor for 10-15 mpg. You could put him out with Coby, Hutch, Thad and Luke and he could be a great floor spacer and 2nd play maker.


Pretty much what I expected.
He always had the skillset which was why he was a lottery prospect.
But his issue is his athleticism is limited to the point it makes his overall game much less effective.
I dont think its just out of shape. The guy is pretty much limping and lost all the quickness.
Pretty sure there are better garbagemen they can pick up since he wont guard a chair.


bull. James Jones could barely walk and was able to contribute. Valentine will have a long career if he avoids any further complications. Tall wings that can shoot and pass will always be in demand.

Re: Denzel Valentine injury update thread

Posted: Wed Oct 9, 2019 1:22 pm
by ZOMG
WindyCityBorn wrote:
Showtime23 wrote:
sco wrote:Back to Valentine.

I know he looked a bit slow and a little out of shape last night, but it was great to see him on the floor. I will also say that many are painting him as "Jabari out-of-shape", I think he looked better than a guy who has been limited for so long. He looked a little thick and a little slow, but much better than I feared.

Also, his shooting and passing didn't look rusty at all.

I am optimistic that he will be back to where he was pre-injury by January and could become a real contributor for 10-15 mpg. You could put him out with Coby, Hutch, Thad and Luke and he could be a great floor spacer and 2nd play maker.


Pretty much what I expected.
He always had the skillset which was why he was a lottery prospect.
But his issue is his athleticism is limited to the point it makes his overall game much less effective.
I dont think its just out of shape. The guy is pretty much limping and lost all the quickness.
Pretty sure there are better garbagemen they can pick up since he wont guard a chair.


bull. James Jones could barely walk and was able to contribute. Valentine will have a long career if he avoids any further complications. Tall wings that can shoot and pass will always be in demand.


Not if they can't move. Case in point: Chandler Parsons. 6'10'', career 37% 3pt shooter, wing skills... but he can't stay on the court because his knees are shot.

It's so weird how people are desperately trying to talk themselves into liking dudes such as Valentine. I guess it's just the Bulls DNA. We adore our misfits and are super critical of the most talented players.

Re: Denzel Valentine injury update thread

Posted: Wed Oct 9, 2019 11:55 pm
by WindyCityBorn
ZOMG wrote:
WindyCityBorn wrote:
Showtime23 wrote:
Pretty much what I expected.
He always had the skillset which was why he was a lottery prospect.
But his issue is his athleticism is limited to the point it makes his overall game much less effective.
I dont think its just out of shape. The guy is pretty much limping and lost all the quickness.
Pretty sure there are better garbagemen they can pick up since he wont guard a chair.


bull. James Jones could barely walk and was able to contribute. Valentine will have a long career if he avoids any further complications. Tall wings that can shoot and pass will always be in demand.


Not if they can't move. Case in point: Chandler Parsons. 6'10'', career 37% 3pt shooter, wing skills... but he can't stay on the court because his knees are shot.

It's so weird how people are desperately trying to talk themselves into liking dudes such as Valentine. I guess it's just the Bulls DNA. We adore our misfits and are super critical of the most talented players.


Did you miss the part where I said if he avoids any further injuries. I'm neutral on Valentine as he is just a decent reserve at best, but people talking like he is a bum that shouldn't be in the NBA are flat out wrong.

Re: Denzel Valentine injury update thread

Posted: Wed Oct 9, 2019 11:58 pm
by logical_art
Things Denzel can do well: shoot, handle, pass, see the floor.
Things Denzel cannot do well: blow past anyone, finish at the rim, draw fouls.
Things Denzel can do ok: defense.

That sounds like a pretty decent bench piece, health provided.

Re: Denzel Valentine injury update thread

Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 4:42 am
by League Circles
WindyCityBorn wrote:Tall wings that can shoot and pass will always be in demand.

Too bad he's not tall. And other than open threes he hasn't been a good shooter I don't think.

Re: Denzel Valentine injury update thread

Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 6:51 am
by WindyCityBorn
League Circles wrote:
WindyCityBorn wrote:Tall wings that can shoot and pass will always be in demand.

Too bad he's not tall. And other than open threes he hasn't been a good shooter I don't think.


He is tall. I'm done with this topic. Season has barely started and the crybaby crew are in full force to make this board miserable.

Re: Denzel Valentine injury update thread

Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 1:28 pm
by IamSam
It's nice to see Denzel playing again. I also have to say that I love this board; we'll argue over whether or not a dude is tall. :lol:

Re: Denzel Valentine injury update thread

Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 2:47 pm
by chefo
logical_art wrote:Things Denzel can do well: shoot, handle, pass, see the floor.
Things Denzel cannot do well: blow past anyone, finish at the rim, draw fouls.
Things Denzel can do ok: defense.

That sounds like a pretty decent bench piece, health provided.


Denzel has a handle, can board a bit, and can shoot an open 3. That's about it. He can't really pass that well or see the floor that well in any meaningful way because of the things he is really bad at: getting penetration and finishing. For his passing to be useful, the D has to be scrambled, at least a bit, or respect him to score.

Also, Denzel was never anything even remotely resembling a good defender even before his ankles got shot. Him and Holiday got targeted a couple of years ago--a couple of opposing (assistant) coaches even went on record saying that whomever the Bulls wings were guarding, even scrubs, were to go at them possession after possession. And it worked. It was so blatant that we discussed it on the forum here because several no-name scrubs went for season highs against the Bulls. For different reasons, mind you--Holiday because he could get screened by a broom, and Denzel because he couldn't stay in front of the old folk at the local Y. He has always had very slow feet.

Last night was a case in point on D. He was already in the corner just a step or two away from the shooter. He was so slow to close out that his guy had open shots, even though Denzel was almost right next to him and wasn't helping/hedging the strong side action in any useful way. His agility (however little he had of it to begin with) is completely shot currently. He looks like somebody Vince Carter's age, not a guy in his mid 20s.

Maybe he gets back to being at least useful for a bit role like 10 min off the bench. In his current stage, he should be China bound because he is a 'uuuge liability on D, and doesn't do anything particularly well on O. Actually with his athletic limitations even China may be too high of a bar.

Re: Denzel Valentine injury update thread

Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:17 pm
by transplant
When I last visited this thread, Valentine hadn’t been officially cleared for 5-on-5. Appears he’s gotten over that hump.

Looks healthy enough to me. That’s good. A competent sub.


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Re: Denzel Valentine injury update thread

Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:29 pm
by madvillian
transplant wrote:When I last visited this thread, Valentine hadn’t been officially cleared for 5-on-5. Appears he’s gotten over that hump.

Looks healthy enough to me. That’s good. A competent sub.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums


It's great he's playing but you could tell he had absolutely nothing in the tank trying to play 2 games in three nights yesterday. He's going to need to stay healthy and play for 2-3 months before he finds his feet. Much like Rose it's going to be a struggle. If he strains a hammy or turns that ankle again forget it.

Bulls need him as a sniper so hopefully he can ramp it up and contribute. Between him and Hutch Bulls have to have one viable guy for 15-20 minutes a night.

Re: Denzel Valentine injury update thread

Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:58 pm
by transplant
madvillian wrote:
transplant wrote:When I last visited this thread, Valentine hadn’t been officially cleared for 5-on-5. Appears he’s gotten over that hump.

Looks healthy enough to me. That’s good. A competent sub.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums


It's great he's playing but you could tell he had absolutely nothing in the tank trying to play 2 games in three nights yesterday. He's going to need to stay healthy and play for 2-3 months before he finds his feet. Much like Rose it's going to be a struggle. If he strains a hammy or turns that ankle again forget it.

Bulls need him as a sniper so hopefully he can ramp it up and contribute. Between him and Hutch Bulls have to have one viable guy for 15-20 minutes a night.

I understand and share the concern...he's been a fragile little buttercup. Right now he's healthy but needs to build stamina. The good news there is that, barring an injury to Lavine, he shouldn't be needed for big minutes. If he can't play hard for 15 minutes/game, he needs career counseling.

Re: Denzel Valentine injury update thread

Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:11 pm
by Brothaman33
He's not anywhere near game shape.

We're talking about a guy who missed an entire NBA season, had reconstructive ankle surgery and was only let play with contact a little while ago.

Give. Him. TIME.

Re: Denzel Valentine injury update thread

Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:36 pm
by mack2354
transplant wrote:
madvillian wrote:
transplant wrote:When I last visited this thread, Valentine hadn’t been officially cleared for 5-on-5. Appears he’s gotten over that hump.

Looks healthy enough to me. That’s good. A competent sub.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums


It's great he's playing but you could tell he had absolutely nothing in the tank trying to play 2 games in three nights yesterday. He's going to need to stay healthy and play for 2-3 months before he finds his feet. Much like Rose it's going to be a struggle. If he strains a hammy or turns that ankle again forget it.

Bulls need him as a sniper so hopefully he can ramp it up and contribute. Between him and Hutch Bulls have to have one viable guy for 15-20 minutes a night.

I understand and share the concern...he's been a fragile little buttercup. Right now he's healthy but needs to build stamina. The good news there is that, barring an injury to Lavine, he shouldn't be needed for big minutes. If he can't play hard for 15 minutes/game, he needs career counseling.


His conditioning will get better as the preseason/season go on. With the glut of point guards we have on the roster I wouldn't be surprised to see a lot of Tomas and Lavine playing the 3 with a 2 PG line up. Valentine really only needs to be able to play a strong, efficient 10 minutes. The 2nd unit NEEDS his 3 point shooting. Especially if they decide to go with Gafford instead of Kornet.

I also think it wouldn't be the worst idea to have Young guard 3's and have Valentine guard the slower 4's. There aren't a lot 2nd string Power Forwards who are specialist in post play. Val is also a sneaky good rebounder. Currently I trust a healthy Valentine for 10 minutes over Hutch or the G League wings behind them.