Image ImageImage Image

Advice Jerry Reinsdorf gave former Marlins president: "Finish 2nd place every year" (full quote in OP)

Moderators: HomoSapien, dougthonus, kulaz3000, GimmeDat, DASMACKDOWN, Tommy Udo 6 , RedBulls23, AshyLarrysDiaper, Payt10, Ice Man, fleet

User avatar
Chicago-Bull-E
RealGM
Posts: 10,249
And1: 2,853
Joined: Jun 27, 2008

Re: Advice Jerry Reinsdorf gave former Marlins president: "Finish 2nd place every year" (full quote in OP) 

Post#61 » by Chicago-Bull-E » Sun Oct 6, 2019 1:41 am

keloms wrote:
Chicago-Bull-E wrote:
keloms wrote:100% correct in the fact that the money is in the chase, not the payoff.

Cubs 2016 team is a great example of it. After winning the World Series, interests fell off significantly and instead of, "one day we'll win", it's now, "so what, we won in 2016"


Is that why the years before 2016 the attendance was lower than the years after 2016? Hmm...


Real chase didn't begin until they signed Lester and brought Maddon in for the 2015 season.


Looks to me like 2015 was lower than 2019.

No meaningful drop off after 2016 in attendance. Hmm... Facts differ from your story.
KC: Do you still think you're a championship-caliber team?
Gar: I never said that and correct me if I'm wrong
User avatar
Michael Jackson
RealGM
Posts: 14,491
And1: 1,466
Joined: Jun 15, 2001

Re: Advice Jerry Reinsdorf gave former Marlins president: "Finish 2nd place every year" (full quote in OP) 

Post#62 » by Michael Jackson » Sun Oct 6, 2019 2:09 am

COSBY wrote:Reinsdorf made one good decision. Hiring Jerry Krause



Then in turn poorly handled it when it was his job to step in. That was his biggest failure. He needed to meddle in that case and with Kenny/Ozzie. He absolutely failed as an owner letting Phil and Jerry break up that team. Terrible failure letting that team end that way. He needed to be on top of that two years prior and all he did was sit on his hands.
League Circles
RealGM
Posts: 29,742
And1: 7,416
Joined: Dec 04, 2001
       

Re: Advice Jerry Reinsdorf gave former Marlins president: "Finish 2nd place every year" (full quote in OP) 

Post#64 » by League Circles » Sun Oct 6, 2019 3:25 am

Michael Jackson wrote:
TheSuzerain wrote:
Michael Jackson wrote:

Cuban surely doesn’t portray himself as a bafoon like Reinsdorf does but that man is all about making money he is just way way way better at selling himself and I wish he owned the Bulls even with profits in mind. I don’t know that Gilbert and Dolan know what they are doing and there really is no good argument for what they do with their teams regardless. In fact I would assume yourself included that no one would chose Gilbert or Dolan as the owner you want of your team. Plus Dolan is known for milking as much money out of all his products as he can, ie concessions etc...

I do agree with the soccer teams because that is the international level of buying a trophy. In US sports it is approaching that level but really only Balmer has crossed that threshold right now. Prokohorov used that model and basically duped everybody and walked out with bags of cash.

Trust me I am not Pro-Jerry but there aren’t many owners of value that aren’t in it to turn a profit. Jerry is just so damn unlikable and too stupidly honest about his intentions that skin crawls listening to him.

Mavs are near the top in Lux tax spending. I believe Cuban paid a huge tax bill for their title team.

The best owners don’t use their team as a source of cash flow. Granted in recent years all NBA owners are “making” money as the valuations have skyrocketed. But owners I’ve mentioned have been willing to lose cash to attempt to win.


I hear you for sure. As I said I would 10 times out of 10 chose Cuban. Cuban did cut spending though as soon as championship wasn’t realistic... not to the level Jerry did but the dude is about business. Jerry actually would to pay a huge tax bill to win as he said and yes the only reason is because he still would net more profits if he won. The repeater tax though has indeed changed many owners way of operation, Jerry is not one of them though as he would never spend that money unless he knew he is going to get a return. It is also true that all of Jerry’s now rather considerable wealth is 98% due to the Bulls and their value going up (along with the whole NBA, also being boosted by Balmers huge overpay for the Clips, Shelly Sterling and Donald laughed all the way to the bank) and it is just beyond frustrating that Jerry is so blunt about his apathy. I don’t think he is unique in his thoughts but damn if he should never speak in front of a mic because he just doesn’t give a f.

Worth noting Jerry didn't make this comment publicly and rarely speaks publicly for years now. He made the comment in confidence to a young guy advancing in the business and despite liking Jerry, that guy threw him under the bus for no apparent reason.
https://august-shop.com/ streetwear & sneakers
League Circles
RealGM
Posts: 29,742
And1: 7,416
Joined: Dec 04, 2001
       

Re: Advice Jerry Reinsdorf gave former Marlins president: "Finish 2nd place every year" (full quote in OP) 

Post#65 » by League Circles » Sun Oct 6, 2019 3:54 am

coldfish wrote:
Hold That wrote:This is terrible logic. And people are making sense of it


It actually is but hear me out. In the short term, you will make the most money by keeping fan interest up while keeping costs down.

That said, and Jerry should know this, over the long term you franchise value is maximized by winning. Jerry made hundreds of millions of dollars over decades due to the MJ effect. GS will have a halo effect due to their current team for 10+ years.

Jerry's statements exactly match how the franchise is run though. They maximize profit in the short term at the expense of long term growth. That's how they won the NBA profit title for so many years but now are in danger of falling to 10th in franchise valuation next year.

Thing is, if you spend big IMO the most likely outcome is actually becoming worse. See the Knicks forever and ever. You can't spend your way to a title. It's not possible. Now, if you're already headed for titles because of successful management and luck, you can fail to achieve your destiny by being cheap. IMO the Bulls haven't done that. The kind of spending people want, whether they realize it or not, is IMO the kind that just makes a 4 seed into a 2 seed at the cost of tens of millions of dollars a year, and more importantly, the cost of being crappy in subsequent years cause your guys are all aging but making more and more, and you have no trade leverage. Think Dallas years before they actually figured it out and won. The years where they were paying perhaps league high salary so that Antawn Jamison could come off the bench and they could be a 5th seed and lose in round 1.

IMO people have the sequence wrong. They just want brute force spending but that leads to failure and being locked into bad rosters or mediocre ones where no one is a good trade asset.

The teams that actually win value flexibility like the Bulls do, and only spend significantly AFTER they have their core pretty well locked up and the spending is actually for MLE type role players (and the tax on them). This is EXACTLY what the Bulls did the only time they had elite talent. IMO had Rose not gotten hurt it would have escalated some more.
https://august-shop.com/ streetwear & sneakers
User avatar
chitowndish
Senior
Posts: 519
And1: 263
Joined: Apr 27, 2014
   

Re: Advice Jerry Reinsdorf gave former Marlins president: "Finish 2nd place every year" (full quote in OP) 

Post#66 » by chitowndish » Sun Oct 6, 2019 7:06 am

Seems like the Marlin's owner ratted Jerry out big time. Honestly I thought Jerry's quotes in the past were worse and Jerry and Michael are the reasons I don't care about this team nearly as much as I have in the past. I don't think they care about more than putting together a competent team that can be good enough to be exciting and pull in playoff revenue. I think Jerry will take a shot if it falls into his lap but I've never thought it was a real goal of his. I'm bracing myself for Michael being a bad photo copy version of Jerry.
User avatar
RedBulls23
Forum Mod - Bulls
Forum Mod - Bulls
Posts: 36,827
And1: 18,599
Joined: Jan 19, 2009
Location: Waiting in Grant Park
       

Re: Advice Jerry Reinsdorf gave former Marlins president: "Finish 2nd place every year" (full quote in OP) 

Post#67 » by RedBulls23 » Sun Oct 6, 2019 9:40 am

kodo wrote:I always thought this was how JR viewed basketball, not baseball. A lot of people said JR's main flaw was that he treated the Bulls as a money making machine while he had actual passion for baseball.

Does he not care about baseball either?

When people said that they was talking out their rear ends. If someone follows both franchises they can clearly see that he operates both franchises the exact same way.
User avatar
coldfish
Forum Mod
Forum Mod
Posts: 47,553
And1: 16,124
Joined: Jun 11, 2004
Location: Right in the middle
 

Re: Advice Jerry Reinsdorf gave former Marlins president: "Finish 2nd place every year" (full quote in OP) 

Post#68 » by coldfish » Sun Oct 6, 2019 12:00 pm

logical_art wrote:Well now we have evidence for the obvious.


Its why everyone is just accepting it as true. This is how the organization acts. The constant rebuilds for flexibility for example. Whenever you go for capspace, you likely have multiple years in a row where you are way below the lux tax line. At the same time, you have a "carrot" to hold out for fans.

This quote is the equivalent of Jerry confirming that the Bulls play basketball. Its kind of like "yeah, that's pretty obvious".
User avatar
coldfish
Forum Mod
Forum Mod
Posts: 47,553
And1: 16,124
Joined: Jun 11, 2004
Location: Right in the middle
 

Re: Advice Jerry Reinsdorf gave former Marlins president: "Finish 2nd place every year" (full quote in OP) 

Post#69 » by coldfish » Sun Oct 6, 2019 12:13 pm

League Circles wrote:
coldfish wrote:
Hold That wrote:This is terrible logic. And people are making sense of it


It actually is but hear me out. In the short term, you will make the most money by keeping fan interest up while keeping costs down.

That said, and Jerry should know this, over the long term you franchise value is maximized by winning. Jerry made hundreds of millions of dollars over decades due to the MJ effect. GS will have a halo effect due to their current team for 10+ years.

Jerry's statements exactly match how the franchise is run though. They maximize profit in the short term at the expense of long term growth. That's how they won the NBA profit title for so many years but now are in danger of falling to 10th in franchise valuation next year.

Thing is, if you spend big IMO the most likely outcome is actually becoming worse. See the Knicks forever and ever. You can't spend your way to a title. It's not possible. Now, if you're already headed for titles because of successful management and luck, you can fail to achieve your destiny by being cheap. IMO the Bulls haven't done that. The kind of spending people want, whether they realize it or not, is IMO the kind that just makes a 4 seed into a 2 seed at the cost of tens of millions of dollars a year, and more importantly, the cost of being crappy in subsequent years cause your guys are all aging but making more and more, and you have no trade leverage. Think Dallas years before they actually figured it out and won. The years where they were paying perhaps league high salary so that Antawn Jamison could come off the bench and they could be a 5th seed and lose in round 1.

IMO people have the sequence wrong. They just want brute force spending but that leads to failure and being locked into bad rosters or mediocre ones where no one is a good trade asset.

The teams that actually win value flexibility like the Bulls do, and only spend significantly AFTER they have their core pretty well locked up and the spending is actually for MLE type role players (and the tax on them). This is EXACTLY what the Bulls did the only time they had elite talent. IMO had Rose not gotten hurt it would have escalated some more.


If not for Dolan, Jerry defenders would have nothing to hang their hat on. Its to the point where its a reflex move. Complaint about Jerry ----> "What about Dolan?"

I almost dare someone to defend Jerry without mentioning Dolan. Outside of him, there are multiple free spending owners who have won with it. GS, Miami, Cleveland, LA, etc. Toronto has had 6 years of 48 wins or more and never tanked for capspace. They made trades and kept improving their team and finally won.

Obviously you have to be smart and competent to win in the NBA. That's a given. You also have to take risks financially. All of the Jerry defenses are effectively strawmen. There are a grand total of ZERO people advocating that the Bulls just give out a bunch of bad contracts and go from there.
NWIBullsFan
Sophomore
Posts: 147
And1: 100
Joined: May 29, 2019
 

Re: Advice Jerry Reinsdorf gave former Marlins president: "Finish 2nd place every year" (full quote in OP) 

Post#70 » by NWIBullsFan » Sun Oct 6, 2019 3:43 pm

there are multiple free spending owners who have won with it. GS, Miami, Cleveland, LA, etc.


GS - won their first 2 championships without paying Luxury Tax

Miami - won their first championship without paying the LT

Cleveland - never once paid the LT until LeBron's last 3 seasons before he left (2007-08, 2008-09, 2009-10). Didn't pay the LT the 4 years he was gone, started paying it again when he came back.

LA - Haven't paid the LT any of the last 5 seasons... once they missed the playoffs in 2013-14 but still paid the LT, they haven't paid the LT since... because they suck.

LeagueCircles wrote:The teams that actually win value flexibility like the Bulls do, and only spend significantly AFTER they have their core pretty well locked up and the spending is actually for MLE type role players (and the tax on them)


110% correct.
NWIBullsFan
Sophomore
Posts: 147
And1: 100
Joined: May 29, 2019
 

Re: Advice Jerry Reinsdorf gave former Marlins president: "Finish 2nd place every year" (full quote in OP) 

Post#71 » by NWIBullsFan » Sun Oct 6, 2019 4:47 pm

NBA Champions and the Luxury Tax:

(The 2004-05 season was the last one where they didn't set the LT threshold until AFTER the season ended, meaning teams had to guess whether or not they were in LT territory)

2001-02: LT not triggered, Lakers won the title with the 12th-highest payroll in the league

2002-03: Spurs $187,000 LT

2003-04: Pistons $756,627 LT

2004-05: LT not triggered, Spurs won the title with the 24th-highest payroll in the league

2005-06: Heat did not pay LT

2006-07: Spurs $196,082 LT

2007-08: Celtics $8,218,368 LT

2008-09: Lakers $7,185,631 LT

2009-10: Lakers $21,430,778 LT

2010-11: Mavericks $18,917,836 LT

2011-12: Heat $6,129,340 LT

2012-13: Heat $21,430,778 LT

2013-14: Spurs did not pay LT

2014-15: Warriors did not pay LT

2015-16: Cavs $54 million LT

2016-17: Warriors did not pay LT

2017-18: Warriors $32.3 million LT

2018-19: Raptors $21.4 million LT

The last 6 NBA championships have been won by 3 taxpaying teams and 3 non-taxpayers.

There have been 18 seasons with a Luxury Tax:

2 seasons, the LT did not trigger:
2001-02 Lakers were almost certainly NOT a LT team, not with the 12th highest payroll.
2005-06 Spurs were certainly NOT a LT team, not with the 24th highest payroll.

3 seasons, the Champs paid less than $800,000 in LT (and 2 of them were accidental, as the LT threshold wasn't set until after the season ended, and the Spurs and Pistons were a little off in their guesses as to what the Threshold would be)

4 seasons, the Champs did not pay any LT
NWIBullsFan
Sophomore
Posts: 147
And1: 100
Joined: May 29, 2019
 

Re: Advice Jerry Reinsdorf gave former Marlins president: "Finish 2nd place every year" (full quote in OP) 

Post#72 » by NWIBullsFan » Sun Oct 6, 2019 5:18 pm

Mark Cuban, that free spender:

Paid way more LT than any team outside of MSG from 2002-03 through 2010-11 ($147,791,590), and in the 2 non-LT seasons, they were 2nd and 5th in payroll.

When they finally won a title in 2010-11, Cuban refused to pay Tyson Chandler* that off-season, and got down to a LT bill of $2,738,843 for 2011-12. He hasn't paid the LT in any of the last 7 seasons.

*- Tyson was 2nd on the Mavs in PER, Win Shares, Offensive Win Shares, and Net +/- (behind Dirk). 2nd in Defensive Win Shares (behind Kidd). 3rd in Value Over Replacement Player (behind Dirk and Kidd).

He led the league in Offensive Rating and True Shooting Pct. He was 6th in the NBA in Total Rebound Pct. 10th in Rebounds/game. 17th in Defensive Rating.

Obviously, Tyson was a huuuuuuuuuuge part of that Championship, and obviously had all kinds of gas left in the tank (as shown by winning Defensive Player of the Year and being named All-NBA for the only time in his career in the 2011-12 season).

And Cuban just let him walk in Free Agency**, instead of bringing him back for another title run... just to save money, obviously.

**- Technically a sign-and-trade, Tyson and a 2nd-round pick for Andy Rautins, who never played a single NBA game after the trade.

Just the facts, ma'am.
League Circles
RealGM
Posts: 29,742
And1: 7,416
Joined: Dec 04, 2001
       

Re: Advice Jerry Reinsdorf gave former Marlins president: "Finish 2nd place every year" (full quote in OP) 

Post#73 » by League Circles » Sun Oct 6, 2019 8:39 pm

coldfish wrote:If not for Dolan, Jerry defenders would have nothing to hang their hat on. Its to the point where its a reflex move. Complaint about Jerry ----> "What about Dolan?"

I almost dare someone to defend Jerry without mentioning Dolan.

Easy. He's had well above average results on the court. 6 rings. 2 different executives of the year. A bunch of financial championships, so to speak.

Outside of him, there are multiple free spending owners who have won with it. GS, Miami, Cleveland, LA, etc.

If these teams are "free spending", how did they have the money to sign all the high level free agents that won them their titles? It's because they weren't free spending, UNTIL after they had their cores and it made sense. Criticizing Bulls management for not putting together the right cores to then justify spending big on the supporting casts is perfectly reasonable. I'm not sure I've ever thought the Bulls had an elite FO team (though it's clearly not an outright bad FO team IMO).

Toronto has had 6 years of 48 wins or more and never tanked for capspace. They made trades and kept improving their team and finally won.

I don't quite have time to look up their whole history, but it's worth noting that NBA players don't perceive Toronto to be a desirable place to play historically, so of course they didn't tank for cap space. They did what about 20+ teams should be doing. The Bulls are in the other 6-10 teams who should be, and typically (and increasingly) do strive for, which is to lean more on free agency. The teams that should be doing this are roughly GS, both LA teams, Dallas, Houston, Miami, Chicago, and NY. They have inherent advantages vs the other 20+ teams.

What moves did GS or Miami make that were inherently risky, big spending moves? I'd argue all they did was spend incrementally to ENSURE they would win the titles AFTER it was already pretty clear they had a great shot.

Cleveland might have done that (paying guys like Tristan Thompson, JR Smith and Iman Shumpert big money). Now, perhaps those guys were needed to get the one ring. Perhaps they weren't. But it's equally plausible that those bloated deals and the fixed position that they put the franchise in actually prevented more titles because they contributed to Lebron being unhappy and leaving cause there was no hope for improvement. Roster bloating has real on the court risks to the team product IMO.

Obviously you have to be smart and competent to win in the NBA. That's a given. You also have to take risks financially. All of the Jerry defenses are effectively strawmen. There are a grand total of ZERO people advocating that the Bulls just give out a bunch of bad contracts and go from there.

True, they don't call them bad contracts because they don't identify them, but typically what are available to ramp up spending do in fact amount to bad contracts. NBA teams haven't been giving away good contracts in trade for financial reasons for well over a decade. What are typically available means to ramp up spending are basically:

A. bad contracts for once good players who will now play on your bench in exchange for expiring deals and mediocre young players

B. spending as much as you can on cap exceptions, which isn't much under the rules and is limited annually pretty substantially

Let's pretend, for example, that the Bulls could and should "spend freely" THIS SEASON to improve their team considerably. That is effectively the narrative people are pushing even if they don't realize it. What EXACTLY could/should they have done differently? I'd argue that the Bulls have put together a roster, that, IF it works out over the next couple years (it probably won't as plans don't work out in the competitive NBA landscape), will require high spending to keep together. If that happens and they let it deteriorate due to not spending freely, I'll agree with the Jerry critics. IMO that hasn't ever happened. Since the dynasty, which was paid for heavily, and successfully, there have been a grand total of three offseasons where the Bulls were good enough to justify high spending to improve their legit contention chances. They were, and I'm being generous here:

1. 2007 offseason following 2nd round apperance. Team was capped out. Signed Joe Smith to full MLE deal and re-signed quality backup Nocioni to long term extension DESPITE having 2nd team all defense Ben Wallace, second year #2 overall draft pick Tyrus Thomas, young up and coming star Luol Deng and rookie yet seasoned (ready) lottery pick Joakim Noah all ready for plenty of front court minutes. They could easily have not signed Smith. IF you have a specific trade in mind that could and should have been done to ramp up spending EVEN MORE instead, I'm all ears.

2. 2011 offseason following ECF loss with a young core of Rose, Deng and Noah. Bulls spend full MLE and go into luxury tax for a percevied marginal upgrade at SG in RIP over Brewer and Korver, who remained with the team. They also, like with Nocioni, re-signed high quality backup Taj Gibson to a substantial long term deal despite having Noah and Boozer and Deng locked up long term and ASik under contract. Again, if there was a specific trade they could and should have done to ramp up spending EVEN MORE, I'm all ears.

3. 2015 offseason following 2nd round competitive loss to Miami. Signed Jimmy Butler to max contract extension. Re-signed Mike Dunleavy to multi year deal (I believe using the full MLE, or maybe splitting it with Aaron Brooks who was also re-signed to a higher salary - neither would have had bird rights to keep without the MLE being used). Again, perhaps there were trades available to ramp up even more, but worth noting that this team didn't even make the playoffs the following year (due to the terrible YET VERY EXPENSIVE coaching "upgrade" that they did this offseason).

It's well worth noting, and this is a primary issue thing here despite me mentioning it last, that the Bulls very clearly and very publicly value both flexibility and continuity. Which is very tricky, because these things usually work as opposite forces. So the Bulls almost never make mid-season trade (which screws with continuity/chemistry) unless things are going very badly. BUT, the type of trades people theoretically want, where you trade roughly equal expiring salaries of low quality players for a higher quality similar salary that lasts much longer, ARE NOT AVAILABLE in offseasons typically. Those are generally trades teams make once they realize they miscalcuated, and the Bulls tend to not get into them, with the notable exception of when continuity/chemistry was no concern, otherwise known as the recent Otto Porter trade.
https://august-shop.com/ streetwear & sneakers
League Circles
RealGM
Posts: 29,742
And1: 7,416
Joined: Dec 04, 2001
       

Re: Advice Jerry Reinsdorf gave former Marlins president: "Finish 2nd place every year" (full quote in OP) 

Post#74 » by League Circles » Sun Oct 6, 2019 8:44 pm

NWIBullsFan wrote:Mark Cuban, that free spender:

Paid way more LT than any team outside of MSG from 2002-03 through 2010-11 ($147,791,590), and in the 2 non-LT seasons, they were 2nd and 5th in payroll.

When they finally won a title in 2010-11, Cuban refused to pay Tyson Chandler* that off-season, and got down to a LT bill of $2,738,843 for 2011-12. He hasn't paid the LT in any of the last 7 seasons.

*- Tyson was 2nd on the Mavs in PER, Win Shares, Offensive Win Shares, and Net +/- (behind Dirk). 2nd in Defensive Win Shares (behind Kidd). 3rd in Value Over Replacement Player (behind Dirk and Kidd).

He led the league in Offensive Rating and True Shooting Pct. He was 6th in the NBA in Total Rebound Pct. 10th in Rebounds/game. 17th in Defensive Rating.

Obviously, Tyson was a huuuuuuuuuuge part of that Championship, and obviously had all kinds of gas left in the tank (as shown by winning Defensive Player of the Year and being named All-NBA for the only time in his career in the 2011-12 season).

And Cuban just let him walk in Free Agency**, instead of bringing him back for another title run... just to save money, obviously.

**- Technically a sign-and-trade, Tyson and a 2nd-round pick for Andy Rautins, who never played a single NBA game after the trade.

Just the facts, ma'am.


EXACTLY. And in Cuban's defense, IMO, it wasn't explicitly to save money in and of the salary itself, but because they miscalculated and didn't think he'd be worth it, hampering their potential, making them lose more in years to come (which then hurts finances).
https://august-shop.com/ streetwear & sneakers
fleet
Senior Mod - Bulls
Senior Mod - Bulls
Posts: 48,790
And1: 15,733
Joined: Dec 23, 2002
     

Re: Advice Jerry Reinsdorf gave former Marlins president: "Finish 2nd place every year" (full quote in OP) 

Post#75 » by fleet » Sun Oct 6, 2019 10:39 pm

Jcool0 wrote:
Read on Twitter

Not quite the full-throated denials of the innocent. I will say this about JR, based on this equivocated attempt of damage control, apparently he has a conscience.
JackFinn wrote:I see you're back from a trip at the smarty pants store.
fleet
Senior Mod - Bulls
Senior Mod - Bulls
Posts: 48,790
And1: 15,733
Joined: Dec 23, 2002
     

Re: Advice Jerry Reinsdorf gave former Marlins president: "Finish 2nd place every year" (full quote in OP) 

Post#76 » by fleet » Sun Oct 6, 2019 10:43 pm

League Circles wrote:
coldfish wrote:If not for Dolan, Jerry defenders would have nothing to hang their hat on. Its to the point where its a reflex move. Complaint about Jerry ----> "What about Dolan?"

I almost dare someone to defend Jerry without mentioning Dolan.

Easy. He's had well above average results on the court. 6 rings. 2 different executives of the year. A bunch of financial championships, so to speak.

Otherwise known as, the Michael Jordan dividend. Like a President taking credit for a booming stock market. He shouldn't take credit really. But it's his evident right to as the main guy. The ethical take is, sure, mention JR if that's what you want to do with regard to the titles. If we were being honest here, inheriting the GOAT, which JR had zero to do with, should perhaps be noted, idk.
JackFinn wrote:I see you're back from a trip at the smarty pants store.
bledredwine
RealGM
Posts: 10,867
And1: 2,951
Joined: Sep 17, 2010
   

Re: Advice Jerry Reinsdorf gave former Marlins president: "Finish 2nd place every year" (full quote in OP) 

Post#77 » by bledredwine » Sun Oct 6, 2019 10:47 pm

Chicago-Bull-E wrote:No surprise, I’ve been saying this is how the Bulls are run and have been for decades. Always avoiding luxury tax, never taking that next step. The funny part is the stans that seem to buy into some logic that JRs first priority is winning. It of course is not.


It’s nice to see someone else that gets it.
NWIBullsFan
Sophomore
Posts: 147
And1: 100
Joined: May 29, 2019
 

Re: Advice Jerry Reinsdorf gave former Marlins president: "Finish 2nd place every year" (full quote in OP) 

Post#78 » by NWIBullsFan » Mon Oct 7, 2019 12:54 am

fleet wrote:
League Circles wrote:
coldfish wrote:If not for Dolan, Jerry defenders would have nothing to hang their hat on. Its to the point where its a reflex move. Complaint about Jerry ----> "What about Dolan?"

I almost dare someone to defend Jerry without mentioning Dolan.

Easy. He's had well above average results on the court. 6 rings. 2 different executives of the year. A bunch of financial championships, so to speak.

Otherwise known as, the Michael Jordan dividend. Like a President taking credit for a booming stock market. He shouldn't take credit really. But it's his evident right to as the main guy. The ethical take is, sure, mention JR if that's what you want to do with regard to the titles. If we were being honest here, inheriting the GOAT, which JR had zero to do with, should perhaps be noted, idk.


If Reinsdorf would have bought the Bulls in Jan '84 instead of Jan '85, do you honestly think he would have told GM Rod Thorn to not draft MJ?

''We started these negotiations in August, before Michael Jordan started playing,'' Reinsdorf said.
NWIBullsFan
Sophomore
Posts: 147
And1: 100
Joined: May 29, 2019
 

Re: Advice Jerry Reinsdorf gave former Marlins president: "Finish 2nd place every year" (full quote in OP) 

Post#79 » by NWIBullsFan » Mon Oct 7, 2019 2:03 am

bledredwine wrote:
Chicago-Bull-E wrote:No surprise, I’ve been saying this is how the Bulls are run and have been for decades. Always avoiding luxury tax, never taking that next step. The funny part is the stans that seem to buy into some logic that JRs first priority is winning. It of course is not.


It’s nice to see someone else that gets it.


Gets what, the fact that you can make up anything negative you want about Reinsdorf, and lots and lots of Bulls fans will believe it?

"Always avoiding LT"? No, they've paid it twice, and would have paid it a third time if Deng would have signed the above-market extension the Bulls offered. Even though Rose was out for the year and there was zero chance of winning anything, they were more than willing to pay the LT.

This is a guy who approved a $58,270,000 payroll in 96-97, when the Salary Cap was $24.3 million. That's 239.8% of the cap.
This is a guy who approved a $61,330,670 payroll in 97-98, when the Salary Cap was $26.9 million. That's 228.0% of the cap.

With today's cap, that equals payrolls of $261,717,120 and $248,839,200.

So Reinsdorf only pays big $$$ when his team has a superstar and a chance to win a title? AWESOME!!! That's exactly what I want from an owner/GM/front office, when you spend big with no chance of winning, they call you "the Knicks".

Just the facts, ma'am.
League Circles
RealGM
Posts: 29,742
And1: 7,416
Joined: Dec 04, 2001
       

Re: Advice Jerry Reinsdorf gave former Marlins president: "Finish 2nd place every year" (full quote in OP) 

Post#80 » by League Circles » Mon Oct 7, 2019 12:20 pm

NWIBullsFan wrote:
bledredwine wrote:
Chicago-Bull-E wrote:No surprise, I’ve been saying this is how the Bulls are run and have been for decades. Always avoiding luxury tax, never taking that next step. The funny part is the stans that seem to buy into some logic that JRs first priority is winning. It of course is not.


It’s nice to see someone else that gets it.


Gets what, the fact that you can make up anything negative you want about Reinsdorf, and lots and lots of Bulls fans will believe it?

"Always avoiding LT"? No, they've paid it twice, and would have paid it a third time if Deng would have signed the above-market extension the Bulls offered. Even though Rose was out for the year and there was zero chance of winning anything, they were more than willing to pay the LT.

This is a guy who approved a $58,270,000 payroll in 96-97, when the Salary Cap was $24.3 million. That's 239.8% of the cap.
This is a guy who approved a $61,330,670 payroll in 97-98, when the Salary Cap was $26.9 million. That's 228.0% of the cap.

With today's cap, that equals payrolls of $261,717,120 and $248,839,200.

So Reinsdorf only pays big $$$ when his team has a superstar and a chance to win a title? AWESOME!!! That's exactly what I want from an owner/GM/front office, when you spend big with no chance of winning, they call you "the Knicks".

Just the facts, ma'am.


+1000000

Hahah careful man, facts are dangerous. There are lots of axes to grind here.
https://august-shop.com/ streetwear & sneakers

Return to Chicago Bulls