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Pelicans @ Bulls - Preseason Game #2 Thread

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Re: Pelicans @ Bulls - Preseason Game #2 Thread 

Post#781 » by Eddy_JukeZ » Fri Oct 11, 2019 1:56 am

Pre-season guys.

Remember how good Rose looked in pre-season after his return? The regular season started and he was a mess.

Pre-season is worthless to judge a player's outlook going forward.
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Re: Pelicans @ Bulls - Preseason Game #2 Thread 

Post#782 » by PaKii94 » Fri Oct 11, 2019 2:01 am

kulaz3000 wrote:
PaKii94 wrote:Okay I finished watching the 3rd quarter Lauri minutes. He took 1 more dumb shot. He doesn't have the iso but outside of that he played a great game. We are really underrating/underrepresenting his playmaking performance this game. This is a guy who could barely get 2 assists a game last season and had 4 in 24 mins along with multiple hockey assists. Also, he should have had 4 ft shots in the 3rd and with 2 of them being one less 2 point shot miss but the bulls were up 20ish at that point and the refs didn't blow the whistle. That would have put him at 16 points and 5/11 shooting. 3/5 from the two (the two misses being the 2 dumb iso shots) 63TS%

That's 24p/6r/6a per 36 mins. That also includes (imo) improved defense. I'll take that from a preseason game.

In my initial viewing I was disappointed but there was a reason the team was running smoothly and up 20 and Lauri was a big reason why. You can see it in the +16 box score. My concerns are quelled.


But boxscores mean everything.


When I first watched the game I was disappointed but I've come to realize I'm expecting MVP caliber numbers from him now... And technically that's not realistic... But I mean we all agree he's been passive with his scoring these past two games and yet he's still at 20 ppg p36. If he does start scoring how everyone wants him to that's elite numbers.

His scoring has been passive but he's shown great improvement in playmaking and defense. That's what everyone wanted to see.
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Re: Pelicans @ Bulls - Preseason Game #2 Thread 

Post#783 » by bad knees » Fri Oct 11, 2019 2:16 am

Red Larrivee wrote:
bad knees wrote:If we are talking about who Luke might replace in the starting lineup, I'd focus more on WCJ than Lauri. Having five shooters and still having that rim protection/shot blocking - man, I'm salivating already. I think it's WCJ who needs to be making sure (a) that he's healthy and available; and (b) that he starts to show that 3 pt shooting that he showed in college.

According to KC, in a 5 minute stint in the second quarter last night, the Bulls scored 20 points with Sato, White, LaVine, Markkanen and Kornet on the floor. Five out, baby. Who's going to stop Zach from getting to the basket? No one. And all those kickouts. And Coby being able to drive as well. Could be fun.

https://www.nbcsports.com/chicago/bulls/bulls-ball-movement-stands-out-loss-zion-williamsons-pelicans


Luckily for us the Bulls aren't entertaining the idea of benching Markkanen or Carter for Kornet.


WCJ needs to get on the court, and improve his offense. If he can’t stay healthy and/or fails to get better on offense, then his status as a high draft pick will eventually wear off. And he will lose his starting position to someone who was not as highly regarded at draft time but who produces more. See, e.g., Kris Dunn. WCJ will be handed the starting position this year regardless of how he plays, but at some point he is going to have to produce.
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Re: Pelicans @ Bulls - Preseason Game #2 Thread 

Post#784 » by madvillian » Fri Oct 11, 2019 2:23 am

bad knees wrote:
Red Larrivee wrote:
bad knees wrote:If we are talking about who Luke might replace in the starting lineup, I'd focus more on WCJ than Lauri. Having five shooters and still having that rim protection/shot blocking - man, I'm salivating already. I think it's WCJ who needs to be making sure (a) that he's healthy and available; and (b) that he starts to show that 3 pt shooting that he showed in college.

According to KC, in a 5 minute stint in the second quarter last night, the Bulls scored 20 points with Sato, White, LaVine, Markkanen and Kornet on the floor. Five out, baby. Who's going to stop Zach from getting to the basket? No one. And all those kickouts. And Coby being able to drive as well. Could be fun.

https://www.nbcsports.com/chicago/bulls/bulls-ball-movement-stands-out-loss-zion-williamsons-pelicans


Luckily for us the Bulls aren't entertaining the idea of benching Markkanen or Carter for Kornet.


WCJ needs to get on the court, and improve his offense. If he can’t stay healthy and/or fails to get better on offense, then his status as a high draft pick will eventually wear off. And he will lose his starting position to someone who was not as highly regarded at draft time but who produces more. See, e.g., Kris Dunn. WCJ will be handed the starting position this year regardless of how he plays, but at some point he is going to have to produce.


He produced massively last year other than fouling too often before he got hurt. He needs to stay healthy but he's 20. His prime is still 3-4 years away. He's got time and he's looked good in limited action, really good relative to age. I think the Bulls aced that pick.
dumbell78 wrote:Random comment....Mikal Bridges stroke is dripping right now in summer league. Carry on.


I'll go ahead and make a sig bet that Mikal is better by RPM this year than Zach.
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Re: Pelicans @ Bulls - Preseason Game #2 Thread 

Post#785 » by mtron32 » Fri Oct 11, 2019 2:27 am

PaKii94 wrote:
kulaz3000 wrote:
PaKii94 wrote:Okay I finished watching the 3rd quarter Lauri minutes. He took 1 more dumb shot. He doesn't have the iso but outside of that he played a great game. We are really underrating/underrepresenting his playmaking performance this game. This is a guy who could barely get 2 assists a game last season and had 4 in 24 mins along with multiple hockey assists. Also, he should have had 4 ft shots in the 3rd and with 2 of them being one less 2 point shot miss but the bulls were up 20ish at that point and the refs didn't blow the whistle. That would have put him at 16 points and 5/11 shooting. 3/5 from the two (the two misses being the 2 dumb iso shots) 63TS%

That's 24p/6r/6a per 36 mins. That also includes (imo) improved defense. I'll take that from a preseason game.

In my initial viewing I was disappointed but there was a reason the team was running smoothly and up 20 and Lauri was a big reason why. You can see it in the +16 box score. My concerns are quelled.


But boxscores mean everything.


When I first watched the game I was disappointed but I've come to realize I'm expecting MVP caliber numbers from him now... And technically that's not realistic... But I mean we all agree he's been passive with his scoring these past two games and yet he's still at 20 ppg p36. If he does start scoring how everyone wants him to that's elite numbers.

His scoring has been passive but he's shown great improvement in playmaking and defense. That's what everyone wanted to see.


his perceived passivity is what irks me, he needs some Bobby Portis in him.
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Re: Pelicans @ Bulls - Preseason Game #2 Thread 

Post#786 » by kulaz3000 » Fri Oct 11, 2019 2:30 am

mtron32 wrote:his perceived passivity is what irks me, he needs some Bobby Portis in him.


You mean, he should be a blackhole?
Why so serious?
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Re: Pelicans @ Bulls - Preseason Game #2 Thread 

Post#787 » by Chi town » Fri Oct 11, 2019 2:39 am

DASMACKDOWN wrote:We may honestly have one of the most versatile type lineups in the whole league. Front court and back.

BUT, I also feel we will have alot of games where we are absolutely killed on the boards.

Our team is big overall height wise. But we dont have many tall beefy guys. We have good and capable team rebounders in Lauri and Otto. But you still need a space eater that can grab things on his own.

Im hoping Wendell eventually is like a young Dwight down there being a big space eater on his own. The team needs him to be that guy for sure.


He will be. We rebound well 1-3
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Re: Pelicans @ Bulls - Preseason Game #2 Thread 

Post#788 » by madvillian » Fri Oct 11, 2019 2:41 am

kulaz3000 wrote:
mtron32 wrote:his perceived passivity is what irks me, he needs some Bobby Portis in him.


You mean, he should be a blackhole?


I get what he's saying but there's a fine line (or not so fine) between Bobby "thumps his chest after making a layup down 20 in the 4th on a bad team" portis and Wendell's level of passivity.

You want guys to be greedy. The best, like Zion last night, are instinctual about it the Bulls are still a bit of a work in progress. Overpassing at times last night. Especially Zach and Porter. Those guys are elite shooters are at least very good. Shoot when open. Trust it.
dumbell78 wrote:Random comment....Mikal Bridges stroke is dripping right now in summer league. Carry on.


I'll go ahead and make a sig bet that Mikal is better by RPM this year than Zach.
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Re: Pelicans @ Bulls - Preseason Game #2 Thread 

Post#789 » by Chi town » Fri Oct 11, 2019 2:45 am

DuckIII wrote:
Ice Man wrote:538 rates Lauri as a better player than Zach. That isits 2019-2020 projection. Not saying that 538 is right, but all these confident statements about how anybody who watches basketball can see that Zach is better is demonstrably false. The people at 538 watch basketball and they believe otherwise.


I have not read that article, but my guess is it’s based on a mathematical formula rather than basketball knowledge and the eye test.


If both play D like they did last night they will be all stars and the Bulls will be a 4-6 seed.

Both will benefit a lot from space, movement, pace, and high iQ passers.
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Re: Pelicans @ Bulls - Preseason Game #2 Thread 

Post#790 » by FriedRise » Fri Oct 11, 2019 2:46 am

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Re: Pelicans @ Bulls - Preseason Game #2 Thread 

Post#791 » by bad knees » Fri Oct 11, 2019 2:47 am

madvillian wrote:
bad knees wrote:
Red Larrivee wrote:
Luckily for us the Bulls aren't entertaining the idea of benching Markkanen or Carter for Kornet.


WCJ needs to get on the court, and improve his offense. If he can’t stay healthy and/or fails to get better on offense, then his status as a high draft pick will eventually wear off. And he will lose his starting position to someone who was not as highly regarded at draft time but who produces more. See, e.g., Kris Dunn. WCJ will be handed the starting position this year regardless of how he plays, but at some point he is going to have to produce.


He produced massively last year other than fouling too often before he got hurt. He needs to stay healthy but he's 20. His prime is still 3-4 years away. He's got time and he's looked good in limited action, really good relative to age. I think the Bulls aced that pick.


He was great on defense, but miserable on offense. And he missed half the season. I know his age, and I have great faith in his abilities, and am confident that he will be better and that this rash of injuries will not continue. The good news is that, if I (and you) are wrong, then we may well have an inexpensive replacement in Kornet who actually might be quite good. That is all.
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Re: Pelicans @ Bulls - Preseason Game #2 Thread 

Post#792 » by Benedict Miller » Fri Oct 11, 2019 2:58 am

Coby White has elite speed in the open court. Showed fearlessness and defended well. His jumper will come. Happy to have him on this Bulls team.
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Re: Pelicans @ Bulls - Preseason Game #2 Thread 

Post#793 » by mtron32 » Fri Oct 11, 2019 3:00 am

madvillian wrote:
kulaz3000 wrote:
mtron32 wrote:his perceived passivity is what irks me, he needs some Bobby Portis in him.


You mean, he should be a blackhole?


I get what he's saying but there's a fine line (or not so fine) between Bobby "thumps his chest after making a layup down 20 in the 4th on a bad team" portis and Wendell's level of passivity.

You want guys to be greedy. The best, like Zion last night, are instinctual about it the Bulls are still a bit of a work in progress. Overpassing at times last night. Especially Zach and Porter. Those guys are elite shooters are at least very good. Shoot when open. Trust it.


I don't see WCJ as at all passive, the passion bleeds out of that dudes pores, he just needs his grown man body to devlop so he can bang around
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Re: Pelicans @ Bulls - Preseason Game #2 Thread 

Post#794 » by MGB8 » Fri Oct 11, 2019 3:03 am

Lauri's biggest issue will be health, IMO.

Offensively, he appears to be a higher level talent than Niko, and Niko was/is quite solid. Athletic profile wise, he is quicker, not to mention bigger, than Niko.

The big issues in terms of his development are assertiveness on offense and just general skill and awareness on defense (something which, btw, Niko became very good at, ending his time in the NBA as an above average defender at the 4).

Lauri looks like he is developing on defense. In terms of whether he is assertive enough to truly become a star - sure, that's an open question - he could actually use a little more selfishness in the mold of a Niko or Bobby Portis - but not too much, and being able to share the ball is key to helping everyone maximize their play.

Now, it's unlikely that Lauri is going to be a Dirk like level multi-time all-star. He doesn't seem to be a potential "generational" player like Zion or Doncic, etc., or even a true top-10 type top-tier NBA star in the lines of AD, young Pau, etc. But, injuries aside, he's a guy who is pretty likely to be a top 50 NBA player with an outside shot of being top 20 in a league that is absolutely loaded with talent. That's a solid player on a team.

If folks were thinking sure fire top 20 player with outside shot of being top 10... yeah, that was a product of over-hyping. Bulls lack a true franchise player, with Zach (amazingly) having an outside chance of becoming one, and Lauri an even smaller chance. But you can build a "puncher's chance" contender by putting together a balanced group of near all-star to all-star (but no full blown superstar) type players. Sure, more likely than not that you get bounced by the team featuring the generational player backed by all-stars... but there are only so many generational or near-generational type players to go around.
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Re: Pelicans @ Bulls - Preseason Game #2 Thread 

Post#795 » by mtron32 » Fri Oct 11, 2019 3:03 am

kulaz3000 wrote:
mtron32 wrote:his perceived passivity is what irks me, he needs some Bobby Portis in him.


You mean, he should be a blackhole?


I'm referring to the attitude which Bobby had a ton of but sadly his ability would never match.
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Re: Pelicans @ Bulls - Preseason Game #2 Thread 

Post#796 » by MGB8 » Fri Oct 11, 2019 3:07 am

Kris Dunn, on the other hand, really is done with the Bulls. Not sure that the Bulls shouldn't just buy him out for a tiny discount and move on, let him get another shot somewhere else. Still no off-ball game, and just not good enough on-ball.

Might as well keep him for the pre-season, though, as a hedge against injury both with the Bulls or on some other team (that might send a couple of second rounders back for him out of desperation).
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Re: Pelicans @ Bulls - Preseason Game #2 Thread 

Post#797 » by HomoSapien » Fri Oct 11, 2019 3:54 am

Red Larrivee wrote:
HomoSapien wrote:
Red Larrivee wrote:
Fam, I'm trying to get these takes off.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


I don't think Lauri is some horrible disappointment or anything, but I have thought for some time that his trade value is the most valuable thing about him. I think he's such a great trade asset that he could be a centerpiece in a trade for the next franchise-level player that becomes available, which depending on age, is something I'd hope we'd consider.


I would trade anyone on this team for a proven star in his prime, so that's not really a view that's specific to just Markkanen. However, those talking about trading him for a draft pick because of two preseason games are ridiculous.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


But I do think it is specific to Lauri. He's the only one who has that kind of trade value, so that's why most people are discussing the idea of trading him and not doing it with Carter, LaVine, etc.
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Re: Pelicans @ Bulls - Preseason Game #2 Thread 

Post#798 » by Chi town » Fri Oct 11, 2019 4:22 am

Benedict Miller wrote:Coby White has elite speed in the open court. Showed fearlessness and defended well. His jumper will come. Happy to have him on this Bulls team.


He will get lots of open 3s. If he can make them 35% or up he will be outright dangerous.
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Re: Pelicans @ Bulls - Preseason Game #2 Thread 

Post#799 » by vvgotgame19 » Fri Oct 11, 2019 5:05 am

Eddy_JukeZ wrote:Pre-season guys.

Remember how good Rose looked in pre-season after his return? The regular season started and he was a mess.

Pre-season is worthless to judge a player's outlook going forward.


Every year fully I expect the fan base to finally start remembering things like this....nope every year around this time it's the same exact thing lol
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Re: Pelicans @ Bulls - Preseason Game #2 Thread 

Post#800 » by madvillian » Fri Oct 11, 2019 5:34 am

vvgotgame19 wrote:
Eddy_JukeZ wrote:Pre-season guys.

Remember how good Rose looked in pre-season after his return? The regular season started and he was a mess.

Pre-season is worthless to judge a player's outlook going forward.


Every year fully I expect the fan base to finally start remembering things like this....nope every year around this time it's the same exact thing lol


rose in preseason was a very special case. sure, take it ALL with a grain of salt, but 99% of players are not coming back off an 18 month injury.
dumbell78 wrote:Random comment....Mikal Bridges stroke is dripping right now in summer league. Carry on.


I'll go ahead and make a sig bet that Mikal is better by RPM this year than Zach.

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