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Preferred rotation

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Preferred rotation 

Post#1 » by logical_art » Thu Oct 10, 2019 4:17 pm

After two preseason games, this is how I want to see it (bold denotes starters).*

Bigs (96): Wendell 32, Lauri 32, Thad 28, Luke/Gafford 4, Felicio -∞

SF (48): OPJ 34, Denzel/Hutch 14

Guards (96): Zach 34, Sato 32, White 22, Shaq/Archi 8, Dunn 0

* Subject to change after each game.
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Re: Preferred rotation 

Post#2 » by Kurt Heimlich » Thu Oct 10, 2019 4:45 pm

The offense runs so much more effectively with Sato in there over Dunn it's not even close. I'll be legit mad if Dunn starts. Getting off to good starts in games is important tone setting.

Coby is our 2nd most talented guard and should be the 3rd guard in minutes by a wide margin. If he can get his shot to fall as well as play well within the offense (i.e. not kill ball movement/turn the ball over) he's a threat to have the 2nd most guard minutes.

WCJ until otherwise proven is an injury risk - 28-30 minutes with games missed is my expectation until he can show some durability. Kornet looked quite a bit better than Gafford to me in very small sample. So he's my 12-14mpg back up big. If WCJ misses time I'd run the Lauri/Thad front court.

OPJ will compete with Zach for most minutes played (when healthy). Denzel and Sato/Zach playing back up in 3 guard sets.

Sato 28 | Dunn 12 | Coby 8
Zach 34 | Coby 14
OPJ 34 | Denzel 14
Lauri 28 | Thad 20
WCJ 29 | Kornet 14 | Lauri 5
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Re: Preferred rotation 

Post#3 » by IamSam » Thu Oct 10, 2019 4:52 pm

Kurt Heimlich wrote:The offense runs so much more effectively with Sato in there over Dunn it's not even close. I'll be legit mad if Dunn starts. Getting off to good starts in games is important tone setting.

Coby is our 2nd most talented guard and should be the 3rd guard in minutes by a wide margin. If he can get his shot to fall as well as play well within the offense (i.e. not kill ball movement/turn the ball over) he's a threat to have the 2nd most guard minutes.

WCJ until otherwise proven is an injury risk - 28-30 minutes with games missed is my expectation until he can show some durability. Kornet looked quite a bit better than Gafford to me in very small sample. So he's my 12-14mpg back up big. If WCJ misses time I'd run the Lauri/Thad front court.

OPJ will compete with Zach for most minutes played (when healthy). Denzel and Sato/Zach playing back up in 3 guard sets.

Sato 28 | Dunn 12 | Coby 8
Zach 34 | Coby 14
OPJ 34 | Denzel 14
Lauri 28 | Thad 20
WCJ 29 | Kornet 14 | Lauri 5


I agree with your observation on how much more effective the team's offense seems to be with Sato starting; the ball movement was very good at times, and you can tell that Sato is still (and I think he even said something to this effect) learning his teammates tendencies/favorite spots.

Dunn still has very little confidence in his shot (perhaps rightfully); I think he is a better fit with the 2nd unit.
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Re: Preferred rotation 

Post#4 » by MrSparkle » Thu Oct 10, 2019 4:53 pm

Coby 27 Sato 20 Arci 1
Zach 34 Sato 10 Dunn 4
Otto 36 Hutch 12
Lauri 23 Thad 25
WCJ 30 Kornet 10 Lauri 8
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Re: Preferred rotation 

Post#5 » by coldfish » Thu Oct 10, 2019 5:03 pm

I have liked the small guard lineups that the Bulls have used.

PG Sato 16 / Coby 20 / Arci 12
SG Lavine 32 / Coby 8 / Sato 8
SF Otto 32 / Sato 8 / Thad 8
PF Lauri 28 / Thad 20
C Wendell 28 / Kornett 12 / Gafford 8

Total
Sato 32
Lavine 32
Otto 32
Lauri 28
Wendell 28
Coby 28
Thad 28
Arci 12
Kornett 12
Gafford 8
Dunn, Valentine, Hutch, Shaq, Felicio = 0
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Re: Preferred rotation 

Post#6 » by Peelboy » Thu Oct 10, 2019 5:11 pm

PG: Sato (24), White (15), Zach (4), Shaq/Dunn (3), Val (2)
SG: Zach (24), White (10), Val (5), Shaq/Dunn (5), Arci (4)
SF: Otto (24), Young (10), Zach (7), Val (7) - Wildcard is Hutch, if he can play, that cuts Young/Zach/Val minutes at the 3
PF: Lauri (26), Young (10), Kornet (8), Otto (4)
C: Wendell (22), Lauri (8), Kornet (8), Gafford (10)

Totals:
Sato - 24
Zach - 35
Otto - 28
Lauri - 34
Wendell - 22
White - 25
Young - 20
Kornet - 16
Gafford - 10
Val - 14
Shaq/Dunn/Arci - 12
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Re: Preferred rotation 

Post#7 » by League Circles » Thu Oct 10, 2019 5:18 pm

Apologies if this is publicly available but could anyone please tell me who the starting units have been the first two games?
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Re: Preferred rotation 

Post#8 » by IamSam » Thu Oct 10, 2019 5:25 pm

League Circles wrote:Apologies if this is publicly available but could anyone please tell me who the starting units have been the first two games?



Game 1 - Kris Dunn, Zach Lavine, Otto Porter, Lauri Markannen. OH, and Felicio
Game 2 - Sato, Zach Lavine, Otto Porter, Lauri Markannenm. Oh, yep still Felicio.
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Re: Preferred rotation 

Post#9 » by League Circles » Thu Oct 10, 2019 5:34 pm

IamSam wrote:
League Circles wrote:Apologies if this is publicly available but could anyone please tell me who the starting units have been the first two games?



Game 1 - Kris Dunn, Zach Lavine, Otto Porter, Lauri Markannen. OH, and Felicio
Game 2 - Sato, Zach Lavine, Otto Porter, Lauri Markannenm. Oh, yep still Felicio.

Haha at Felicio.

Sounds roughly like I predicted regarding Dunn. Started preseason as the nominal starter to give him one last chance to prove himself, which he predictably didn't, amd perhaps now he'll never get another startinh shot with this team. If so, both the initial starting and the predictable, quick benching are exactly what I wanted to see and expected from Boylen.
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Re: Preferred rotation 

Post#10 » by LateNight » Thu Oct 10, 2019 5:41 pm

coldfish wrote:I have liked the small guard lineups that the Bulls have used.

PG Sato 16 / Coby 20 / Arci 12
SG Lavine 32 / Coby 8 / Sato 8
SF Otto 32 / Sato 8 / Thad 8
PF Lauri 28 / Thad 20
C Wendell 28 / Kornett 12 / Gafford 8


Yeah - maybe give Kornet some time at the 4 and use Gafford a bit more, ideally less reliant on Sato at the 2/3, but this is basically what I want to see. Seems like we’d be competitive
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Re: Preferred rotation 

Post#11 » by bad knees » Thu Oct 10, 2019 5:54 pm

coldfish wrote:I have liked the small guard lineups that the Bulls have used.

PG Sato 16 / Coby 20 / Arci 12
SG Lavine 32 / Coby 8 / Sato 8
SF Otto 32 / Sato 8 / Thad 8
PF Lauri 28 / Thad 20
C Wendell 28 / Kornett 12 / Gafford 8

Total
Sato 32
Lavine 32
Otto 32
Lauri 28
Wendell 28
Coby 28
Thad 28
Arci 12
Kornett 12
Gafford 8
Dunn, Valentine, Hutch, Shaq, Felicio = 0


Perfect.

Except the UniKornet has only one T in his last name. :D
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Re: Preferred rotation 

Post#12 » by wolffy » Thu Oct 10, 2019 6:02 pm

Just trying to figure these mins out, one thing is clear, they have a deep and versatile team. Maybe it lacks that top end talent but it has a ton of pieces.
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Re: Preferred rotation 

Post#13 » by chefo » Thu Oct 10, 2019 6:04 pm

I'm with coldfish here: So long as Dunn and Val don't see the floor for more than 5 min combined and Shrek never sees the floor, I'm fine. Arci should only play if the guys ahead of him are stinking up the joint. If the Bulls can flip any combination of Dunn, Val and Felicio for somebody with a pulse with an average PER/D, I'd be ecstatic.

Right now, the Bulls have just enough players:

PG Sato: 24, Coby: 20: Zach: 4
SG: Zach: 30, Coby: 8: Sato: 10
SF: Otto: 34, Lauri: 4, Thad: 10
PF: Lauri: 32, Thad: 10, WCJ: 6
C: WCJ: 20, Luke: 18, Thad: 4; Gafford 6

That's a 8/9 man rotation that is very versatile without having to go to the scrubs on the team, health permitting

You can go with the gargantuan 5-out lineup:

Sato
Zach
Otto
Lauri
Luke

OR the I'll make your life miserable trying to score on us lineup:

Zach/Sato
Otto
Thad/Lauri
WCJ
Gafford

OR We'll spread you out with small-ball:

Sato
Zach
Coby
Otto
Lauri

Lots of ways to tinker--the Bulls FO has done a good job of getting ballers that can play multiple positions. I also realized last night that the Bulls are a very tall team, when they choose to be...

I really liked how they played last night the first 3 quarters.
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Re: Preferred rotation 

Post#14 » by wolffy » Thu Oct 10, 2019 6:05 pm

I also don't see Arci getting mins over Val. He's too good a shooter and the line up is deep enough to where the fact they play different positions barely matters.
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Re: Preferred rotation 

Post#15 » by JimmyJammer » Thu Oct 10, 2019 6:34 pm

The length of this Bulls team puts on the floor could be ridiculous. Imagine this:
PG- Sato 6ft7
SG- Lavine 6ft6 (though listed at 6ft5)
C- Kornet 7ft1
SF- Porter 6ft9
PF- Lauri 7ft

Gafford 6ft11
Dunn 6ft4
White 6ft5
Carter 6ft10
Thaddeus 6ft8
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Re: Preferred rotation 

Post#16 » by coldfish » Thu Oct 10, 2019 6:42 pm

LateNight wrote:
coldfish wrote:I have liked the small guard lineups that the Bulls have used.

PG Sato 16 / Coby 20 / Arci 12
SG Lavine 32 / Coby 8 / Sato 8
SF Otto 32 / Sato 8 / Thad 8
PF Lauri 28 / Thad 20
C Wendell 28 / Kornett 12 / Gafford 8


Yeah - maybe give Kornet some time at the 4 and use Gafford a bit more, ideally less reliant on Sato at the 2/3, but this is basically what I want to see. Seems like we’d be competitive


Let's be honest, either Val or Hutch is going to play a little. I might not like it but the time with Sato at the 3 is going to be limited.

I will say this though. Coby White is big and he actually tries on defense. I don't have an issue with using him as a backup 2.
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Re: Preferred rotation 

Post#17 » by coldfish » Thu Oct 10, 2019 6:46 pm

chefo wrote:I'm with coldfish here: So long as Dunn and Val don't see the floor for more than 5 min combined and Shrek never sees the floor, I'm fine. Arci should only play if the guys ahead of him are stinking up the joint. If the Bulls can flip any combination of Dunn, Val and Felicio for somebody with a pulse with an average PER/D, I'd be ecstatic.

Right now, the Bulls have just enough players:

PG Sato: 24, Coby: 20: Zach: 4
SG: Zach: 30, Coby: 8: Sato: 10
SF: Otto: 34, Lauri: 4, Thad: 10
PF: Lauri: 32, Thad: 10, WCJ: 6
C: WCJ: 20, Luke: 18, Thad: 4; Gafford 6

That's a 8/9 man rotation that is very versatile without having to go to the scrubs on the team, health permitting

You can go with the gargantuan 5-out lineup:

Sato
Zach
Otto
Lauri
Luke

OR the I'll make your life miserable trying to score on us lineup:

Zach/Sato
Otto
Thad/Lauri
WCJ
Gafford

OR We'll spread you out with small-ball:

Sato
Zach
Coby
Otto
Lauri

Lots of ways to tinker--the Bulls FO has done a good job of getting ballers that can play multiple positions. I also realized last night that the Bulls are a very tall team, when they choose to be...

I really liked how they played last night the first 3 quarters.


GarPax have done a very good job putting together a flexible roster. They have added two guys who can play up to 3 positions and not kill you which really, really helps your flexibility. Beyond that Coby seems big enough to be a 2. The only guys who are absolutely locked into one position would be Arci (PG), Dunn (PG), Val (SF) and Felicio (C).

Boylen was noticeably playing with it last night and when you saw the primary guys out there without Felicio, it looked really good in almost any combination.
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Re: Preferred rotation 

Post#18 » by logical_art » Thu Oct 10, 2019 6:56 pm

coldfish wrote:I have liked the small guard lineups that the Bulls have used.

PG Sato 16 / Coby 20 / Arci 12
SG Lavine 32 / Coby 8 / Sato 8
SF Otto 32 / Sato 8 / Thad 8
PF Lauri 28 / Thad 20
C Wendell 28 / Kornett 12 / Gafford 8

Total
Sato 32
Lavine 32
Otto 32
Lauri 28
Wendell 28
Coby 28
Thad 28
Arci 12
Kornett 12
Gafford 8
Dunn, Valentine, Hutch, Shaq, Felicio = 0


Is there much of a precedent for two of teams best players, in their early 20s, only playing 28 minutes per game? That seems really low, as do the figures for Lavine and Otto, arguably the teams first and second best players and both in their mid 20s.

This is not like a championship team with minute monitoring to save them for the playoffs. This is a team and franchise desperate to even make the playoffs. I have to imagine they will ride their best players in an attempt to get there.
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Re: Preferred rotation 

Post#19 » by coldfish » Thu Oct 10, 2019 7:20 pm

logical_art wrote:
Is there much of a precedent for two of teams best players, in their early 20s, only playing 28 minutes per game? That seems really low, as do the figures for Lavine and Otto, arguably the teams first and second best players and both in their mid 20s.

This is not like a championship team with minute monitoring to save them for the playoffs. This is a team and franchise desperate to even make the playoffs. I have to imagine they will ride their best players in an attempt to get there.


That's a good point.

Personally, I get the impression that Wendell is a high foul player and Lauri is not a high minutes guy. I don't see them really getting into the mid 30's but you are right that them getting 30-32 would probably be more reasonable. I also think Lavine is going to bust out and play more.

PG Sato 22 / Coby 16 / Arci 10
SG Lavine 34 / Coby 10 / Sato 4
SF Otto 32 / Sato 4 / Thad 4 / Hutch or Val 8
PF Lauri 30 / Thad 20
C Wendell 30 / Kornett 12 / Gafford 6

Lavine 34
Otto 32
Lauri, Satoransky and Wendell 30
Coby 26
Thad 24
Kornet 12
Arci 10
Hutch OR Val 8
Gafford 6
Dunn, Felicio, Shaq and Hutch or Val = 0

Is probably more reasonable.

I also think that this will vary wildly depending on who is playing well and match ups.
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Re: Preferred rotation 

Post#20 » by League Circles » Thu Oct 10, 2019 7:40 pm

Lavine, Porter and Lauri were all above 32 mpg last year despite injuries and us somewhat tanking. I'm sure of healthy they'll be at least that high again.
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