What does Lauri need to show for you to want to give him a MAX deal? - Merged

[sco]

I respect the Finnish folks' fandom. Lauri is their gateway to the NBA and have no other connection to the Bulls. I'd want my guy to win too. I think the point about winning is somewhat moot though. The Bulls are definitely on an upward trajectory, and wins should come and Lauri (and the Finns') should feel great about him resigning in Chicago.

That said, I admit to being unsure about the changing role of the PF in the NBA. The emergence of the "Point-PF" may be one of those sea-changes that relegates guys like Lauri to shift to a stretch 5 role, where, IMO, he loses his eliteness because he is neither quick enough to blow by bigs nor a good rim protector - which is why I love him next to WCJ.

[Jello Biafra]

I'd like to see Lauri learn how to move without the ball on offense. I'd like to see him cut to the basket without the ball instead of standing still at the 3 point line waiting for a pass all the time. I'd like to see him learn the screen roll play. He could be dynamic either rolling to the basket or picking and popping. Unfortunately, it takes two to tango and it appears that Dunn and to a lesser extent Sato (Arch?)are the only ball handlers who can initiate screen roll and really aren't a threat to finish. Lavine and White are a threat to finish but haven't really shown the ability or patience to set the matchup or schare the ball in screen roll. If they (and Lauri) could improve I believe that would elevate Markannen's game to the next level.

I'd pay him a Lavine contract. Lavine, though not perfect, is a better player. If he gets a max contract elsewhere so be it. We will see how this China thing impacts the Salary Cap. If the China money is less (Rockets reportedly to lose a minimum of 25 mil already in China contracts) or dries up completely it will obviously affect the cap and what teams are willing to spend on upper mid level players like Lauri or Porter.

[LateNight]

Unfortunately, it takes two to tango and it appears that Dunn and to a lesser extent Sato (Arch?)are the only ball handlers who can initiate screen roll and really aren't a threat to finish.

So, I know he's new to the bulls, but Sato is definitely a threat to finish. He's sneaky athletic, hits his jumpers and has a solid floater. He may not be the fastest player on the court, but he's definitely a threat in the PnR.

Also, I am somewhat dubious of this developing narrative that Lauri is being shut-out on offense. Yes, there are times when certain players get blinders on, but I've seen it from Lauri just as much as from other players.

I'm not sure we can judge any of this based on preseason, because we're experimenting with various lineups, etc. But since Boylen took over, there have been TONS of examples of plays being run for Lauri in the PnR (as screener and ballhandler) which have been met with mixed results. Some of these failures are because of the tanking roster, some are failed plays and some are because of Lauri. When Lauri drives into a double or triple team, ignores the open man then gets blocked hard or fails to finish, it's not because we didn't run good enough offense for him.

I like Lauri, but this season will mean a lot. He's a great spot-up shooter and has some really elite moments, but if he's supposed to be our first or second option on offense in the long term, he's going to need to show that he can do that consistently. Because the pieces are all there for him to succeed.

[mtron32]

I looked up Dirks numbers from his first three years and Lauri out performs him the first two in every category but assists the first two. By year three, Dirk had at least 20 ppg 9 rpg and a fg% 47 3p% 38.

Dirk
Year Team GP GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% RPG APG SPG BPG PPG
1998–99 Dallas 47 24 20.4 .405 .206 .773 3.4 1.0 .6 .6 8.2
1999–2000 Dallas 82 81 35.8 .461 .379 .830 6.5 2.5 .8 .8 17.5
2000–01 Dallas 82 82 38.1 .474 .387 .838 9.2 2.1 1.0 1.2 21.8

Lauri
Year Team GP GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% RPG APG SPG BPG PPG
2017–18 Chicago 68 68 29.7 .434 .362 .843 7.5 1.2 .6 .6 15.2
2018–19 Chicago 52 51 32.3 .430 .361 .872 9.0 1.4 .7 .6 18.7

For his 3rd year, I can see Lauri hitting those numbers especially if the Bulls start running more plays for him. I never watched Dirk very closely when he played but the stats don't lie, Lauri came in hot and now Bulls fans are expecting MVP year Dirk which didn't happen until his 12th year in the league. At this rate, Lauri is going to continue to impress though I have stated and continue to yell that I'd love for him to be more aggressive calling for the ball, hopefully we see that dawg come out this season.

[LateNight]

I looked up Dirks numbers from his first three years and Lauri out performs him the first two in every category but assists ...
Lauri came in hot and now Bulls fans are expecting MVP year Dirk which didn't happen until his 12th year in the league. ... I have stated and continue to yell that I'd love for him to be more aggressive calling for the ball, hopefully we see that dawg come out this season.

Fair enough! We are putting a lot of pressure on him for this point in his career.

I’d love to see him become a superstar - he definitely shows flashes.

[kodo]

I have to ask a couple questions.

Is Lauri better or just as good as Luka?

Is Lauri better or just as good as KP?

Is Lauri better or just as good as the Joker?

If all the answers are no, then he shouldn’t be getting a max.

Then we should prepare to use that same money on more signings like Jabari Parker, because he's a factual example of the kind of free agent Chicago can sign for $20M+ per year.

[PaKii94]

Maybe Lauri should start chucking jumpers like KP. I'm sure Lauri would make more of them

[mtron32]

I have to ask a couple questions.

Is Lauri better or just as good as Luka?

Is Lauri better or just as good as KP?

Is Lauri better or just as good as the Joker?

If all the answers are no, then he shouldn’t be getting a max.

You cant compare him with Luka they're entirely different positions. As for the other two (going off first two seasons):

Lauri
Year Team GP GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% RPG APG SPG BPG PPG
2017–18 Chicago 68 68 29.7 .434 .362 .843 7.5 1.2 .6 .6 15.2
2018–19 Chicago 52 51 32.3 .430 .361 .872 9.0 1.4 .7 .6 18.7

Kristaps
Year Team GP GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% RPG APG SPG BPG PPG
2015–16 New York 72 72 28.4 .421 .333 .838 7.3 1.3 .7 1.9 14.3
2016–17 New York 66 65 32.8 .450 .357 .786 7.2 1.5 .7 2.0 18.1

Joker
Year Team GP GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% RPG APG SPG BPG PPG
2015–16 Denver 80 55 21.7 .512 .333 .811 7.0 2.4 1.0 .6 10.0
2016–17 Denver 73 59 27.9 .577 .324 .825 9.8 4.9 .8 .8 16.7

Neither KP or Joker had stats leaps and bounds beyond Lauri going into year three. We just need to wait and see what Lauri brings but he's by no means a finnished book, it may take some time before he starts to be that dude.

[sco]

I looked up Dirks numbers from his first three years and Lauri out performs him the first two in every category but assists the first two. By year three, Dirk had at least 20 ppg 9 rpg and a fg% 47 3p% 38.

Dirk
Year Team GP GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% RPG APG SPG BPG PPG
1998–99 Dallas 47 24 20.4 .405 .206 .773 3.4 1.0 .6 .6 8.2
1999–2000 Dallas 82 81 35.8 .461 .379 .830 6.5 2.5 .8 .8 17.5
2000–01 Dallas 82 82 38.1 .474 .387 .838 9.2 2.1 1.0 1.2 21.8

Lauri
Year Team GP GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% RPG APG SPG BPG PPG
2017–18 Chicago 68 68 29.7 .434 .362 .843 7.5 1.2 .6 .6 15.2
2018–19 Chicago 52 51 32.3 .430 .361 .872 9.0 1.4 .7 .6 18.7

For his 3rd year, I can see Lauri hitting those numbers especially if the Bulls start running more plays for him. I never watched Dirk very closely when he played but the stats don't lie, Lauri came in hot and now Bulls fans are expecting MVP year Dirk which didn't happen until his 12th year in the league. At this rate, Lauri is going to continue to impress though I have stated and continue to yell that I'd love for him to be more aggressive calling for the ball, hopefully we see that dawg come out this season.

I have to ask a couple questions.

Is Lauri better or just as good as Luka?

Is Lauri better or just as good as KP?

Is Lauri better or just as good as the Joker?

If all the answers are no, then he shouldn’t be getting a max.

You cant compare him with Luka they're entirely different positions. As for the other two (going off first two seasons):

Lauri
Year Team GP GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% RPG APG SPG BPG PPG
2017–18 Chicago 68 68 29.7 .434 .362 .843 7.5 1.2 .6 .6 15.2
2018–19 Chicago 52 51 32.3 .430 .361 .872 9.0 1.4 .7 .6 18.7

Kristaps
Year Team GP GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% RPG APG SPG BPG PPG
2015–16 New York 72 72 28.4 .421 .333 .838 7.3 1.3 .7 1.9 14.3
2016–17 New York 66 65 32.8 .450 .357 .786 7.2 1.5 .7 2.0 18.1

Joker
Year Team GP GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% RPG APG SPG BPG PPG
2015–16 Denver 80 55 21.7 .512 .333 .811 7.0 2.4 1.0 .6 10.0
2016–17 Denver 73 59 27.9 .577 .324 .825 9.8 4.9 .8 .8 16.7

Neither KP or Joker had stats leaps and bounds beyond Lauri going into year three. We just need to wait and see what Lauri brings but he's by no means a finnished book, it may take some time before he starts to be that dude.

Great and useful comparison guys!

I will repeat my comments from earlier to say that I wonder if some of Dirk's fam was that he was the first 7 foot PF to be a 3 point shooter? Not that is wasn't deserved. Also, one of Dirk's best abilities was his availability...he had 14 seasons playing 75+ games.

KP, IMO is similarly benefitting from being similarly skilled and 7'3. That said, I just don't think he'll be nearly as durable as Dirk.

Joker is a different breed as a play-making C (vs. stretch 4).

The key for me regarding Lauri (and these guys) is defense.

[mj234eva]

Mid-range shots, oh no!

Read on Twitter

[mtron32]

Mid-range shots, oh no!

Read on Twitter

23rd cant come fast enough

(fixed)

[PaKii94]

Mid-range shots, oh no!

Read on Twitter

28th cant come fast enough

23rd*

[Axolotl]

Mid-range shots, oh no!

Read on Twitter

Well that was quick, it's just a couple of hours since I wrote in the LaVine midrange thread about more midrange jumpers for Markkanen.

[mtron32]

Mid-range shots, oh no!

Read on Twitter

28th cant come fast enough

23rd*

sweet! even better

[Michael Jackson]

I'd like to see Lauri learn how to move without the ball on offense. I'd like to see him cut to the basket without the ball instead of standing still at the 3 point line waiting for a pass all the time. I'd like to see him learn the screen roll play. He could be dynamic either rolling to the basket or picking and popping. Unfortunately, it takes two to tango and it appears that Dunn and to a lesser extent Sato (Arch?)are the only ball handlers who can initiate screen roll and really aren't a threat to finish. Lavine and White are a threat to finish but haven't really shown the ability or patience to set the matchup or schare the ball in screen roll. If they (and Lauri) could improve I believe that would elevate Markannen's game to the next level.

I'd pay him a Lavine contract. Lavine, though not perfect, is a better player. If he gets a max contract elsewhere so be it. We will see how this China thing impacts the Salary Cap. If the China money is less (Rockets reportedly to lose a minimum of 25 mil already in China contracts) or dries up completely it will obviously affect the cap and what teams are willing to spend on upper mid level players like Lauri or Porter.

I would like to see East Bay Fat Jerry posting again so the you guys can get the DK’s back together.

[Jello Biafra]

I'd like to see Lauri learn how to move without the ball on offense. I'd like to see him cut to the basket without the ball instead of standing still at the 3 point line waiting for a pass all the time. I'd like to see him learn the screen roll play. He could be dynamic either rolling to the basket or picking and popping. Unfortunately, it takes two to tango and it appears that Dunn and to a lesser extent Sato (Arch?)are the only ball handlers who can initiate screen roll and really aren't a threat to finish. Lavine and White are a threat to finish but haven't really shown the ability or patience to set the matchup or schare the ball in screen roll. If they (and Lauri) could improve I believe that would elevate Markannen's game to the next level.

I'd pay him a Lavine contract. Lavine, though not perfect, is a better player. If he gets a max contract elsewhere so be it. We will see how this China thing impacts the Salary Cap. If the China money is less (Rockets reportedly to lose a minimum of 25 mil already in China contracts) or dries up completely it will obviously affect the cap and what teams are willing to spend on upper mid level players like Lauri or Porter.

I would like to see East Bay Fat Jerry posting again so the you guys can get the DK’s back together.

The older, fatter, not aged so gracefully but still rock on occasion before bedtime version.

[AshyLarrysDiaper]

I don't see a fluid creator in Lauri, so my offensive expectations are streamlined: become a 40% 3P shooter on high volume, and let the chips fall where they may elsewhere (handling, diving, passing).

[ZOMG]

I don't see a fluid creator in Lauri, so my offensive expectations are streamlined: become a 40% 3P shooter on high volume, and let the chips fall where they may elsewhere (handling, diving, passing).

I don't think he'll ever become a "fluid creator", but he's a good enough passer to deserve movement around him in a half court offense. Lauri can and will find cutters, we've seen that.

Since Markkanen is not a shotmaker (i.e. someone who can improvise surprising ways of putting the ball in the basket), he should work hard to build 1-2 straightforward go-to moves. So far he hasn't done that, which disappoints me.

Lauri is a guy who too easily falls back on what he's most comfortable with, and right now that only means 3pt shots.

[PaKii94]

Watch on YouTube

[logical_art]

The ability to more consistently create his own shot and shots for other players.

Right now most of his points come on catch and shoot or show and gos.