Image ImageImage Image

Bulls @ Pacers: Preseason Game #3

Moderators: HomoSapien, Tommy Udo 6 , RedBulls23, AshyLarrysDiaper, Payt10, Ice Man, fleet, dougthonus, kulaz3000, GimmeDat, DASMACKDOWN

User avatar
GhostOfChicago
General Manager
Posts: 9,323
And1: 8,147
Joined: Nov 02, 2013
 

Re: Bulls @ Pacers: Preseason Game #3 

Post#201 » by GhostOfChicago » Sat Oct 12, 2019 7:25 am

danzou wrote:He is basically collin sexton, which isn't a bad thing.


Just hope White keeps playing well defensively. Sexton was horrible on that side of the ball.
Image
The best there ever was. The best there ever will be.
Dez
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,017
And1: 4,393
Joined: Jul 23, 2011
Location: Melbourne, Australia
 

Re: Bulls @ Pacers: Preseason Game #3 

Post#202 » by Dez » Sat Oct 12, 2019 8:29 am

ZOMG wrote:
johnnyvann840 wrote:Kornet came back down to earth tonight after a great showing last night. I really hope all this talk about him being better than Lauri gets put to rest, because it's just nonsense. That said, I like Kornet and glad he's on the team. I thought some of the anti-Lauri posts last night and today were ridiculous. I actually thought he played well for the most part.


I hate how everyone is intentionally misunderstanding the Kornet vs. Lauri thing.

Kornet is not a guy who's gonna suddenly take over when playing with hopeless G-Leaguers and borderline NBA talent like in this game. He's 100% about intelligent team basketball, and that was in very short supply. It looked like Summer League - guards pounding the ball and jacking up shots with blinders on.

I just happen to think that Kornet, while not a great individual scorer or anything, just may be the ideal combo 4/5 for this season's starting lineup. His game doesn't "take up space". He knows what he can do. Of course he's just a cog in the machine - not like Lauri, who people are expecting to become an All Star. But this season's team needs people who are smart, active and able to take what defenses give them at a given moment.

Lauri's game isn't clicking right now. If you take away his pick and pop shooting, he's been very underwhelming. Of course he'll start and play his usual minutes - the NBA is about business, egos, and marketing as well as the pure game - but I just don't understand why it's sacrilege to say that Kornet could probably match Lauri's production if he got the same amount of touches and shots. That said, it's WCJ who's in more danger of losing minutes to the UniKornet.

Markkanen needs to be held accountable, and it starts by asking why he didn't work in the offseason to improve his game. I just think it's a red flag.

It's a red flag you've pulled out of your anus.

It's been 3 pre-season games of which he's played two and you're making this sweeping statement, premature doesn't even begin to describe this hot take.
User avatar
Axolotl
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,953
And1: 1,722
Joined: Feb 05, 2018
Location: The Vasty Deep
   

Re: Bulls @ Pacers: Preseason Game #3 

Post#203 » by Axolotl » Sat Oct 12, 2019 9:20 am

This game was about opportunity for the bench players to show they could be regular season contributors. Four did: Arcidiacono (as could be expected), White, Gafford and Kornet.

White was in a scoring guard mode, which is fine in itself, but I would have liked to see some playmaking from him too. So far he hasn't shown any. Is this what the Bulls want him to be?

Kornet had a not-so-hot game, looked out of sync with his teammates.

Dunn on the floor is like his beard: there, but why? On the guard depth he is #5, and that's without counting in Harrison.

I tried to look at Valentine like I look at a player whom I have never seen before. He didn't really stand out.

Mokoka with his balanced overall game has potential. He's nowhere near yet, but he might get there, and that's what two-way contracts are for.

Doyle and Simon looked like floor fillers, just meh and meh.
"Now we're going to start playing winning basketball" - Bulls coach Jim Boylen 15. Dec. 2018
"They are going to learn to play winning basketball" - Bulls coach Jim Boylen 5. Nov. 2019
JimmyJammer
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,436
And1: 1,635
Joined: Aug 31, 2005

Re: Bulls @ Pacers: Preseason Game #3 

Post#204 » by JimmyJammer » Sat Oct 12, 2019 10:00 am

logical_art wrote:
Clocian wrote:But but but he's not talented!

Agreed. Already ahead of dunn in the rotation. As he continues to learn, and develop he's gonna be a beast.
Chi town wrote:I think Coby is going to be really good. Looks like a great pick. Great fit too.


Sent from my SM-G973U using RealGM mobile app


Looks like a great pick based on? He hasn't score efficiently so far in his young career nor been a good distributor. We're all pulling for him and he does have some tools to work with but lets not go crazy because of a 24 pt game on 22 shots with zero assists.


I call 4-9 three-point shooting efficient because that's about 44% make of the most important shot in the game. He could have gone to the line more but otherwise I am happy with that and the 10-22 overall shooting as well. I want volume shooting from him from this point forward in order to get his confidence up. He reminds me of Sexton of the Cavs of last year, with way better defense.
Showtime23
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,597
And1: 579
Joined: Oct 12, 2018

Re: Bulls @ Pacers: Preseason Game #3 

Post#205 » by Showtime23 » Sat Oct 12, 2019 10:09 am

Axolotl wrote:
White was in a scoring guard mode, which is fine in itself, but I would have liked to see some playmaking from him too. So far he hasn't shown any. Is this what the Bulls want him to be?


It's not like Boylen is threatening White to be in Mamba mentality.
Since he is below average playmaker, coach probably will never play him in the pg spot and instead backup Lavine.
I dont think he has ever showed playmaking ability starting from summer league.
On a rather decent sample size, all he did was high volume scoring with horrible inefficiency.
I can safely assume rather than not showing his playmaking ability, he just simply doesnt have it.
Usually these types of players are busts. Players that cannot excel what their position requires to do. See Dunn.

The Bulls never thought he would be this bad.
'Yesmen' Gar, Pax didnt do homework and probably followed owner's favorite pick (shown in the video) and falsely advertised him as "pg of the future." The propaganda worked and many fans were hyped he would start for next decade.
Knowing wings are a premium in the NBA, not drafting Rui/ Reddish was a disaster. And Im not even fan of Reddish game.
User avatar
Red Larrivee
RealGM
Posts: 41,525
And1: 17,947
Joined: Feb 15, 2007
Location: Hogging Microphone Time From Tom Dore

Re: Bulls @ Pacers: Preseason Game #3 

Post#206 » by Red Larrivee » Sat Oct 12, 2019 10:35 am

Showtime23 wrote:
Axolotl wrote:
White was in a scoring guard mode, which is fine in itself, but I would have liked to see some playmaking from him too. So far he hasn't shown any. Is this what the Bulls want him to be?


It's not like Boylen is threatening White to be in Mamba mentality.
Since he is below average playmaker, coach probably will never play him in the pg spot and instead backup Lavine.
I dont think he has ever showed playmaking ability starting from summer league.
On a rather decent sample size, all he did was high volume scoring with horrible inefficiency.
I can safely assume rather than not showing his playmaking ability, he just simply doesnt have it.
Usually these types of players are busts. Players that cannot excel what their position requires to do. See Dunn.

The Bulls never thought he would be this bad.
'Yesmen' Gar, Pax didnt do homework and probably followed owner's favorite pick (shown in the video) and falsely advertised him as "pg of the future." The propaganda worked and many fans were hyped he would start for next decade.
Knowing wings are a premium in the NBA, not drafting Rui/ Reddish was a disaster. And Im not even fan of Reddish game.


3 preseason games in and we have someone declaring a rookie a bust.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
wonderboy2
Veteran
Posts: 2,684
And1: 1,691
Joined: Jul 05, 2013

Re: Bulls @ Pacers: Preseason Game #3 

Post#207 » by wonderboy2 » Sat Oct 12, 2019 11:23 am

Red Larrivee wrote:
Showtime23 wrote:
Axolotl wrote:
White was in a scoring guard mode, which is fine in itself, but I would have liked to see some playmaking from him too. So far he hasn't shown any. Is this what the Bulls want him to be?


It's not like Boylen is threatening White to be in Mamba mentality.
Since he is below average playmaker, coach probably will never play him in the pg spot and instead backup Lavine.
I dont think he has ever showed playmaking ability starting from summer league.
On a rather decent sample size, all he did was high volume scoring with horrible inefficiency.
I can safely assume rather than not showing his playmaking ability, he just simply doesnt have it.
Usually these types of players are busts. Players that cannot excel what their position requires to do. See Dunn.

The Bulls never thought he would be this bad.
'Yesmen' Gar, Pax didnt do homework and probably followed owner's favorite pick (shown in the video) and falsely advertised him as "pg of the future." The propaganda worked and many fans were hyped he would start for next decade.
Knowing wings are a premium in the NBA, not drafting Rui/ Reddish was a disaster. And Im not even fan of Reddish game.


3 preseason games in and we have someone declaring a rookie a bust.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

It’s very odd given the fact that Coby has gone up against starters and Rotation players and has held his own. So the **** what if he has not been efficient. People who actually know basketball can tell when a player has skills and don’t have to look at the box score to determine if a player had a good game or not. The playmaking will come. But the talent is there. He’s only 3 games into his career and people think they have a player all figured out. It’s funny how National media are calling Coby a baller but it’s people on this board are the ones that bitch the most. But I’m not surprised because this board have been notorious for bad player evaluation and jumping to quick of conclusions. Let’s all remember White has played only 3 NBA games. The board can be hilarious sometimes.
Ice Man
Forum Mod - Bulls
Forum Mod - Bulls
Posts: 20,665
And1: 8,917
Joined: Apr 19, 2011

Re: Bulls @ Pacers: Preseason Game #3 

Post#208 » by Ice Man » Sat Oct 12, 2019 12:16 pm

wonderboy2 wrote:It’s funny how National media are calling Coby a baller but it’s people on this board are the ones that bitch the most.


One poster is down on Coby. One.
User avatar
JohnnyTapwater
Starter
Posts: 2,472
And1: 1,030
Joined: Nov 06, 2009
Location: Chicago
   

Re: Bulls @ Pacers: Preseason Game #3 

Post#209 » by JohnnyTapwater » Sat Oct 12, 2019 12:18 pm

Coby is a killer. I just need him to get to the line more.

He does not look like a PG. He just looks like a guard and a piece that'll make this the last season Dunn and Denzel where a Bulls uniform.
User avatar
FriedRise
Head Coach
Posts: 6,684
And1: 5,832
Joined: Jan 13, 2015
Location: Chicago
 

Re: Bulls @ Pacers: Preseason Game #3 

Post#210 » by FriedRise » Sat Oct 12, 2019 12:41 pm

If we can somehow convert Dunn, Valentine, and Felicio to a legit backup wing, man...

Arch / White / Legit Backup Wing / Young / Kornet
Chi town
RealGM
Posts: 16,516
And1: 3,194
Joined: Aug 10, 2004

Re: Bulls @ Pacers: Preseason Game #3 

Post#211 » by Chi town » Sat Oct 12, 2019 12:50 pm

JimmyJammer wrote:
logical_art wrote:
Clocian wrote:But but but he's not talented!

Agreed. Already ahead of dunn in the rotation. As he continues to learn, and develop he's gonna be a beast.

Sent from my SM-G973U using RealGM mobile app


Looks like a great pick based on? He hasn't score efficiently so far in his young career nor been a good distributor. We're all pulling for him and he does have some tools to work with but lets not go crazy because of a 24 pt game on 22 shots with zero assists.


I call 4-9 three-point shooting efficient because that's about 44% make of the most important shot in the game. He could have gone to the line more but otherwise I am happy with that and the 10-22 overall shooting as well. I want volume shooting from him from this point forward in order to get his confidence up. He reminds me of Sexton of the Cavs of last year, with way better defense.


Sexton turned it on and looked really good post ASG. Solid comp. I see Jamal Murray w much better defense too
sco
RealGM
Posts: 14,194
And1: 3,511
Joined: Sep 22, 2003
Location: Virtually Everywhere!

Re: Bulls @ Pacers: Preseason Game #3 

Post#212 » by sco » Sat Oct 12, 2019 1:10 pm

OK, watching the "game" and reading this thread brings back that aftertaste of a bad Mexican meal that I like to call the 2018-19 season. Whew, that was UGLY. Let's go:

Felicio is so fat...I mean bad, that calling him the Bogans is a huge insult to Bogans. He really just needs to go to the g-league all season. We are better off just playing Arci at center - seriously.

Dunn is bad. Sure he had 6 steals, but he had 7 TO's but he can't set guys up, he can't shoot, he can't finish at the rim. Playing this dude next to Coby is a bad idea on like 100 different levels. If we can't dump him for a second rounder, let him go keep Felicio company in the G-league.

Speaking of the G-league. Mokoka and Simon don't even belong there. Can we cancel their gigs and pick 2 random dudes from the playground and try again?

Valentine sucked, but I'm not gonna beat him up because when Dougie Mc3 looks like a much better defender than you do, that's hurtful enough, AND, I think he'll be useful once he's in better shape. By January, I'm thinking he could give 8-10 useful minutes a game.

I think Coby's biggest problem is that he is forced to be the SG, because we don't have a back-up SG who can actually score. Playing him alongside Dunn was like a 1-on-1 game of keep-away. It was like Zach last year, you wanted him to pass more, but seriously, who else on the floor could hit the broad side of the barn last year. I wasn't happy about his lack of passing (he missed a lot of open guys), but 4-9 from 3 IS HUGE! And no TO's is nice too.

Luke didn't do much on the scoring end, but he actually did a nice job on Turner defensively. He could have made more offensive plays, but per Dunn/Coby comments above, nobody was passing. I like the option of playing him alongside Gafford, especially against taller PF's.

Gafford looked good too. He just needs to work on his FT's. His form isn't too bad, and that's gonna be key for him to stay on the floor. He moves so well on defense, I thought "oh Dunn made a good steal there" and then realized it was Gafford.

Let me end with Arci. Can anybody make a real argument that he isn't the 2nd best PG on the team? He is a 25 year-old crafty veteran. There are some guys in the NBA who weren't high picks, who aren't huge athletic freaks, but you look back after they've been in the league 10 years and say, "darn, why didn't we just play this guy more?". Arci is one of those guys. If we want to win, Arci needs to be our back-up PG. He can ball handle, pass, not turn the ball over, shoot 3's, shot in the paint, defend. IMO, he keeps getting better, and is now better than vintage Kirk.
:clap:
Indomitable
RealGM
Posts: 21,216
And1: 4,358
Joined: Jul 11, 2001
Location: Yelzenbah!
     

Re: Bulls @ Pacers: Preseason Game #3 

Post#213 » by Indomitable » Sat Oct 12, 2019 1:19 pm

sco wrote:OK, watching the "game" and reading this thread brings back that aftertaste of a bad Mexican meal that I like to call the 2018-19 season. Whew, that was UGLY. Let's go:

Felicio is so fat...I mean bad, that calling him the Bogans is a huge insult to Bogans. He really just needs to go to the g-league all season. We are better off just playing Arci at center - seriously.

Dunn is bad. Sure he had 6 steals, but he had 7 TO's but he can't set guys up, he can't shoot, he can't finish at the rim. Playing this dude next to Coby is a bad idea on like 100 different levels. If we can't dump him for a second rounder, let him go keep Felicio company in the G-league.

Speaking of the G-league. Mokoka and Simon don't even belong there. Can we cancel their gigs and pick 2 random dudes from the playground and try again?

Valentine sucked, but I'm not gonna beat him up because when Dougie Mc3 looks like a much better defender than you do, that's hurtful enough, AND, I think he'll be useful once he's in better shape. By January, I'm thinking he could give 8-10 useful minutes a game.

I think Coby's biggest problem is that he is forced to be the SG, because we don't have a back-up SG who can actually score. Playing him alongside Dunn was like a 1-on-1 game of keep-away. It was like Zach last year, you wanted him to pass more, but seriously, who else on the floor could hit the broad side of the barn last year. I wasn't happy about his lack of passing (he missed a lot of open guys), but 4-9 from 3 IS HUGE! And no TO's is nice too.

Luke didn't do much on the scoring end, but he actually did a nice job on Turner defensively. He could have made more offensive plays, but per Dunn/Coby comments above, nobody was passing. I like the option of playing him alongside Gafford, especially against taller PF's.

Gafford looked good too. He just needs to work on his FT's. His form isn't too bad, and that's gonna be key for him to stay on the floor. He moves so well on defense, I thought "oh Dunn made a good steal there" and then realized it was Gafford.

Let me end with Arci. Can anybody make a real argument that he isn't the 2nd best PG on the team? He is a 25 year-old crafty veteran. There are some guys in the NBA who weren't high picks, who aren't huge athletic freaks, but you look back after they've been in the league 10 years and say, "darn, why didn't we just play this guy more?". Arci is one of those guys. If we want to win, Arci needs to be our back-up PG. He can ball handle, pass, not turn the ball over, shoot 3's, shot in the paint, defend. IMO, he keeps getting better, and is now better than vintage Kirk.

This is just a bunch of nonsense.
Chicago Strong and rehab sucks
User avatar
beeshma
Pro Prospect
Posts: 831
And1: 324
Joined: Mar 24, 2011

Re: Bulls @ Pacers: Preseason Game #3 

Post#214 » by beeshma » Sat Oct 12, 2019 2:03 pm

sco wrote:OK, watching the "game" and reading this thread brings back that aftertaste of a bad Mexican meal that I like to call the 2018-19 season. Whew, that was UGLY. Let's go:

Felicio is so fat...I mean bad, that calling him the Bogans is a huge insult to Bogans. He really just needs to go to the g-league all season. We are better off just playing Arci at center - seriously.

Dunn is bad. Sure he had 6 steals, but he had 7 TO's but he can't set guys up, he can't shoot, he can't finish at the rim. Playing this dude next to Coby is a bad idea on like 100 different levels. If we can't dump him for a second rounder, let him go keep Felicio company in the G-league.

Speaking of the G-league. Mokoka and Simon don't even belong there. Can we cancel their gigs and pick 2 random dudes from the playground and try again?

Valentine sucked, but I'm not gonna beat him up because when Dougie Mc3 looks like a much better defender than you do, that's hurtful enough, AND, I think he'll be useful once he's in better shape. By January, I'm thinking he could give 8-10 useful minutes a game.

I think Coby's biggest problem is that he is forced to be the SG, because we don't have a back-up SG who can actually score. Playing him alongside Dunn was like a 1-on-1 game of keep-away. It was like Zach last year, you wanted him to pass more, but seriously, who else on the floor could hit the broad side of the barn last year. I wasn't happy about his lack of passing (he missed a lot of open guys), but 4-9 from 3 IS HUGE! And no TO's is nice too.

Luke didn't do much on the scoring end, but he actually did a nice job on Turner defensively. He could have made more offensive plays, but per Dunn/Coby comments above, nobody was passing. I like the option of playing him alongside Gafford, especially against taller PF's.

Gafford looked good too. He just needs to work on his FT's. His form isn't too bad, and that's gonna be key for him to stay on the floor. He moves so well on defense, I thought "oh Dunn made a good steal there" and then realized it was Gafford.

Let me end with Arci. Can anybody make a real argument that he isn't the 2nd best PG on the team? He is a 25 year-old crafty veteran. There are some guys in the NBA who weren't high picks, who aren't huge athletic freaks, but you look back after they've been in the league 10 years and say, "darn, why didn't we just play this guy more?". Arci is one of those guys. If we want to win, Arci needs to be our back-up PG. He can ball handle, pass, not turn the ball over, shoot 3's, shot in the paint, defend. IMO, he keeps getting better, and is now better than vintage Kirk.


I think you are correct about Felicio, Valentine, and to a lesser degree about Dunn. They are players being given too many entitlement/rotation minutes by upper management decree. Hutchinson may fall into this category also.

Three points:
1) During the regular season these are going to be end of bench guys. as has been pointed out, Archi and White seem ahead of Dunn already. We have multiple bigs ahead of Felicio. No one is promising Valentine anything. He is a walking injury risk, but if healthy he sucks so bad he will play himself out of the rotation. Therefore, not as big a deal as you make it out to be.
2) Be happy with this year’s scrubs compared to last years! Portis, Blakeney, and Jabari Parker were starters or rotation players during the regular season.
3) Mokoka and Simon are new. Give them a year before you lump them in with proven losers!
MeloRoseNoah
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,822
And1: 1,202
Joined: Jul 12, 2014
 

Re: Bulls @ Pacers: Preseason Game #3 

Post#215 » by MeloRoseNoah » Sat Oct 12, 2019 2:07 pm

COby White has elite scoring potential at pg like 25+ ppg. It seems that he also has better feel for passing and playing off the ball than Lavine. He’s going to be a good one. By December, he will either be a starter or make our bench unit a top 3 in the NBA. A+++ pick that fell in their laps.
sco
RealGM
Posts: 14,194
And1: 3,511
Joined: Sep 22, 2003
Location: Virtually Everywhere!

Re: Bulls @ Pacers: Preseason Game #3 

Post#216 » by sco » Sat Oct 12, 2019 2:22 pm

Indomitable wrote:
sco wrote:OK, watching the "game" and reading this thread brings back that aftertaste of a bad Mexican meal that I like to call the 2018-19 season. Whew, that was UGLY. Let's go:

Felicio is so fat...I mean bad, that calling him the Bogans is a huge insult to Bogans. He really just needs to go to the g-league all season. We are better off just playing Arci at center - seriously.

Dunn is bad. Sure he had 6 steals, but he had 7 TO's but he can't set guys up, he can't shoot, he can't finish at the rim. Playing this dude next to Coby is a bad idea on like 100 different levels. If we can't dump him for a second rounder, let him go keep Felicio company in the G-league.

Speaking of the G-league. Mokoka and Simon don't even belong there. Can we cancel their gigs and pick 2 random dudes from the playground and try again?

Valentine sucked, but I'm not gonna beat him up because when Dougie Mc3 looks like a much better defender than you do, that's hurtful enough, AND, I think he'll be useful once he's in better shape. By January, I'm thinking he could give 8-10 useful minutes a game.

I think Coby's biggest problem is that he is forced to be the SG, because we don't have a back-up SG who can actually score. Playing him alongside Dunn was like a 1-on-1 game of keep-away. It was like Zach last year, you wanted him to pass more, but seriously, who else on the floor could hit the broad side of the barn last year. I wasn't happy about his lack of passing (he missed a lot of open guys), but 4-9 from 3 IS HUGE! And no TO's is nice too.

Luke didn't do much on the scoring end, but he actually did a nice job on Turner defensively. He could have made more offensive plays, but per Dunn/Coby comments above, nobody was passing. I like the option of playing him alongside Gafford, especially against taller PF's.

Gafford looked good too. He just needs to work on his FT's. His form isn't too bad, and that's gonna be key for him to stay on the floor. He moves so well on defense, I thought "oh Dunn made a good steal there" and then realized it was Gafford.

Let me end with Arci. Can anybody make a real argument that he isn't the 2nd best PG on the team? He is a 25 year-old crafty veteran. There are some guys in the NBA who weren't high picks, who aren't huge athletic freaks, but you look back after they've been in the league 10 years and say, "darn, why didn't we just play this guy more?". Arci is one of those guys. If we want to win, Arci needs to be our back-up PG. He can ball handle, pass, not turn the ball over, shoot 3's, shot in the paint, defend. IMO, he keeps getting better, and is now better than vintage Kirk.

This is just a bunch of nonsense.

OK - so what?
:clap:
MrSparkle
RealGM
Posts: 14,497
And1: 4,258
Joined: Jul 31, 2003
Location: chicago

Re: Bulls @ Pacers: Preseason Game #3 

Post#217 » by MrSparkle » Sat Oct 12, 2019 2:30 pm

beeshma wrote:
sco wrote:OK, watching the "game" and reading this thread brings back that aftertaste of a bad Mexican meal that I like to call the 2018-19 season. Whew, that was UGLY. Let's go:

Felicio is so fat...I mean bad, that calling him the Bogans is a huge insult to Bogans. He really just needs to go to the g-league all season. We are better off just playing Arci at center - seriously.

Dunn is bad. Sure he had 6 steals, but he had 7 TO's but he can't set guys up, he can't shoot, he can't finish at the rim. Playing this dude next to Coby is a bad idea on like 100 different levels. If we can't dump him for a second rounder, let him go keep Felicio company in the G-league.

Speaking of the G-league. Mokoka and Simon don't even belong there. Can we cancel their gigs and pick 2 random dudes from the playground and try again?

Valentine sucked, but I'm not gonna beat him up because when Dougie Mc3 looks like a much better defender than you do, that's hurtful enough, AND, I think he'll be useful once he's in better shape. By January, I'm thinking he could give 8-10 useful minutes a game.

I think Coby's biggest problem is that he is forced to be the SG, because we don't have a back-up SG who can actually score. Playing him alongside Dunn was like a 1-on-1 game of keep-away. It was like Zach last year, you wanted him to pass more, but seriously, who else on the floor could hit the broad side of the barn last year. I wasn't happy about his lack of passing (he missed a lot of open guys), but 4-9 from 3 IS HUGE! And no TO's is nice too.

Luke didn't do much on the scoring end, but he actually did a nice job on Turner defensively. He could have made more offensive plays, but per Dunn/Coby comments above, nobody was passing. I like the option of playing him alongside Gafford, especially against taller PF's.

Gafford looked good too. He just needs to work on his FT's. His form isn't too bad, and that's gonna be key for him to stay on the floor. He moves so well on defense, I thought "oh Dunn made a good steal there" and then realized it was Gafford.

Let me end with Arci. Can anybody make a real argument that he isn't the 2nd best PG on the team? He is a 25 year-old crafty veteran. There are some guys in the NBA who weren't high picks, who aren't huge athletic freaks, but you look back after they've been in the league 10 years and say, "darn, why didn't we just play this guy more?". Arci is one of those guys. If we want to win, Arci needs to be our back-up PG. He can ball handle, pass, not turn the ball over, shoot 3's, shot in the paint, defend. IMO, he keeps getting better, and is now better than vintage Kirk.


I think you are correct about Felicio, Valentine, and to a lesser degree about Dunn. They are players being given too many entitlement/rotation minutes by upper management decree. Hutchinson may fall into this category also.

Three points:
1) During the regular season these are going to be end of bench guys. as has been pointed out, Archi and White seem ahead of Dunn already. We have multiple bigs ahead of Felicio. No one is promising Valentine anything. He is a walking injury risk, but if healthy he sucks so bad he will play himself out of the rotation. Therefore, not as big a deal as you make it out to be.
2) Be happy with this year’s scrubs compared to last years! Portis, Blakeney, and Jabari Parker were starters or rotation players during the regular season.
3) Mokoka and Simon are new. Give them a year before you lump them in with proven losers!


There’s not much difference at all between Portis/Jabari/Blakeney and the current fluff. Felicio, Valentine and Dunn are overpaid busts; the latter two should’ve been drafted in the 2nd rd. I’m annoyed that 3 guaranteed roster spots are still wasted on them.

Arci is offensively more mobile and skilled than Kirk, but he is a step too slow and an inch too small. He looks the part but I don’t think he can win NBA match-ups. Hopefully he makes a high percentage of 3Ps to help his cause.

I personally find it alarming if Boylen decides to not let Coby play PG at all. 24 pts on 22 shots is very good for a guard; that was the story of Rose’s life, if not on 30 shots.

Curry didn’t develop as a SG. He was a SG who was put at PG and forced to learn. Bulls should take the short-term hit, but I think Boylen and Paxson want to squeeze a 7-8 seed out of this roster. Another mistake IMO.
User avatar
Hangtime84
RealGM
Posts: 18,578
And1: 3,447
Joined: Aug 18, 2006
Location: Rogers Park
     

Re: Bulls @ Pacers: Preseason Game #3 

Post#218 » by Hangtime84 » Sat Oct 12, 2019 2:37 pm

Bulls might have a taller Dame and CJ thing later down the road if Coby White pick works out.

Only issue for is both won't be in their primes at the same time. But that might be okay. Coby feels like a gym rat.
Jcool0 wrote:
aguifs wrote:Do we have a friggin plan?


If the Bulls do, you would be complaining to much to ever hear it.


NBA fan logic we need to trade one of two best players because (Player X) one needs to shine more.
ZOMG
Analyst
Posts: 3,253
And1: 1,769
Joined: Dec 31, 2013

Re: Bulls @ Pacers: Preseason Game #3 

Post#219 » by ZOMG » Sat Oct 12, 2019 3:12 pm

Indomitable wrote:
sco wrote:OK, watching the "game" and reading this thread brings back that aftertaste of a bad Mexican meal that I like to call the 2018-19 season. Whew, that was UGLY. Let's go:

Felicio is so fat...I mean bad, that calling him the Bogans is a huge insult to Bogans. He really just needs to go to the g-league all season. We are better off just playing Arci at center - seriously.

Dunn is bad. Sure he had 6 steals, but he had 7 TO's but he can't set guys up, he can't shoot, he can't finish at the rim. Playing this dude next to Coby is a bad idea on like 100 different levels. If we can't dump him for a second rounder, let him go keep Felicio company in the G-league.

Speaking of the G-league. Mokoka and Simon don't even belong there. Can we cancel their gigs and pick 2 random dudes from the playground and try again?

Valentine sucked, but I'm not gonna beat him up because when Dougie Mc3 looks like a much better defender than you do, that's hurtful enough, AND, I think he'll be useful once he's in better shape. By January, I'm thinking he could give 8-10 useful minutes a game.

I think Coby's biggest problem is that he is forced to be the SG, because we don't have a back-up SG who can actually score. Playing him alongside Dunn was like a 1-on-1 game of keep-away. It was like Zach last year, you wanted him to pass more, but seriously, who else on the floor could hit the broad side of the barn last year. I wasn't happy about his lack of passing (he missed a lot of open guys), but 4-9 from 3 IS HUGE! And no TO's is nice too.

Luke didn't do much on the scoring end, but he actually did a nice job on Turner defensively. He could have made more offensive plays, but per Dunn/Coby comments above, nobody was passing. I like the option of playing him alongside Gafford, especially against taller PF's.

Gafford looked good too. He just needs to work on his FT's. His form isn't too bad, and that's gonna be key for him to stay on the floor. He moves so well on defense, I thought "oh Dunn made a good steal there" and then realized it was Gafford.

Let me end with Arci. Can anybody make a real argument that he isn't the 2nd best PG on the team? He is a 25 year-old crafty veteran. There are some guys in the NBA who weren't high picks, who aren't huge athletic freaks, but you look back after they've been in the league 10 years and say, "darn, why didn't we just play this guy more?". Arci is one of those guys. If we want to win, Arci needs to be our back-up PG. He can ball handle, pass, not turn the ball over, shoot 3's, shot in the paint, defend. IMO, he keeps getting better, and is now better than vintage Kirk.

This is just a bunch of nonsense.


No, his post was a well thought out analysis. Nobody has to agree with it, but your reply is just a lazy drive by shooting.

Why even bother?
---------
Red Larrivee wrote:Zion Williamson can be a lot more than an all-star. He has the potential to be the best player in the world.
sco
RealGM
Posts: 14,194
And1: 3,511
Joined: Sep 22, 2003
Location: Virtually Everywhere!

Re: Bulls @ Pacers: Preseason Game #3 

Post#220 » by sco » Sat Oct 12, 2019 3:18 pm

ZOMG wrote:
Indomitable wrote:
sco wrote:OK, watching the "game" and reading this thread brings back that aftertaste of a bad Mexican meal that I like to call the 2018-19 season. Whew, that was UGLY. Let's go:

Felicio is so fat...I mean bad, that calling him the Bogans is a huge insult to Bogans. He really just needs to go to the g-league all season. We are better off just playing Arci at center - seriously.

Dunn is bad. Sure he had 6 steals, but he had 7 TO's but he can't set guys up, he can't shoot, he can't finish at the rim. Playing this dude next to Coby is a bad idea on like 100 different levels. If we can't dump him for a second rounder, let him go keep Felicio company in the G-league.

Speaking of the G-league. Mokoka and Simon don't even belong there. Can we cancel their gigs and pick 2 random dudes from the playground and try again?

Valentine sucked, but I'm not gonna beat him up because when Dougie Mc3 looks like a much better defender than you do, that's hurtful enough, AND, I think he'll be useful once he's in better shape. By January, I'm thinking he could give 8-10 useful minutes a game.

I think Coby's biggest problem is that he is forced to be the SG, because we don't have a back-up SG who can actually score. Playing him alongside Dunn was like a 1-on-1 game of keep-away. It was like Zach last year, you wanted him to pass more, but seriously, who else on the floor could hit the broad side of the barn last year. I wasn't happy about his lack of passing (he missed a lot of open guys), but 4-9 from 3 IS HUGE! And no TO's is nice too.

Luke didn't do much on the scoring end, but he actually did a nice job on Turner defensively. He could have made more offensive plays, but per Dunn/Coby comments above, nobody was passing. I like the option of playing him alongside Gafford, especially against taller PF's.

Gafford looked good too. He just needs to work on his FT's. His form isn't too bad, and that's gonna be key for him to stay on the floor. He moves so well on defense, I thought "oh Dunn made a good steal there" and then realized it was Gafford.

Let me end with Arci. Can anybody make a real argument that he isn't the 2nd best PG on the team? He is a 25 year-old crafty veteran. There are some guys in the NBA who weren't high picks, who aren't huge athletic freaks, but you look back after they've been in the league 10 years and say, "darn, why didn't we just play this guy more?". Arci is one of those guys. If we want to win, Arci needs to be our back-up PG. He can ball handle, pass, not turn the ball over, shoot 3's, shot in the paint, defend. IMO, he keeps getting better, and is now better than vintage Kirk.

This is just a bunch of nonsense.


No, his post was a well thought out analysis. Nobody has to agree with it, but your reply is just a lazy drive by shooting.

Why even bother?

Don't forget the well crafted humor ;)
:clap:

Return to Chicago Bulls