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mj234eva wrote:[You're confused. 3-10 feet is NOT mid-range.

I think it is, for the analytics guys. At the rim or 3s. Everything in between is, broadly speaking, mid-range and to be mostly avoided.

dice wrote:

CjayC wrote:I never thought this was as much of a problem with Zach, as say for instance Luol Deng who was a long 2 god while here. Zach picks his spots pretty good to me.

that's the problem. you have to be a god in that area to make the shot worthwhile on a regular basis. and the reality is that luol WASN'T a god in that area except for his solid efficiency season at age 21 or whatever. he then regressed as he attempted to add the 3 ball to his game. mid-range by season:

36.6
37.0
43.3
41.5
38.5
40.0
38.8
33.9
35.3
38.9
40.3
34.4
24.0 (first year w/ lakers)

Sorry should have greentexted or gave a hyperbole note. I meant that he shot a lot of them not necessarily that he made them

Ice Man wrote:

mj234eva wrote:[You're confused. 3-10 feet is NOT mid-range.

I think it is, for the analytics guys. At the rim or 3s. Everything in between is, broadly speaking, mid-range and to be mostly avoided.

It's not. Getting in the paint, for example would not be something to "avoid."

mj234eva wrote:]It's not. Getting in the paint, for example would not be something to "avoid."

The league last year shot 66% at the rim, 40% from 3 to 10 feet, 41% from 10 to 16, 40% from 16 to the 3 point line, and 36% on 3s. There's nothing special about getting in the paint. On average, an 8 footer isn't a very good shot, just as with (say) a 20 footer.

Ice Man wrote:

mj234eva wrote:]It's not. Getting in the paint, for example would not be something to "avoid."

The league last year shot 66% at the rim, 40% from 3 to 10 feet, 41% from 10 to 16, 40% from 16 to the 3 point line, and 36% on 3s. There's nothing special about getting in the paint. On average, an 8 footer isn't a very good shot, just as with (say) a 20 footer.

Actually there is something special about it; fouls drawn. Which isn't calculated in those percentages.

Maybe Markkanen should sometimes opt for a midrange jumper instead of that dragging floater? I admit a part of me wanting him to take those jumpers is aesthetics - that delayed floater is fugly.

mj234eva wrote:Actually there is something special about it; fouls drawn. Which isn't calculated in those percentages.

That's true, although it's also true that getting the ball into the paint increases the chance that the offensive team will commit a turnover. See Lavine, Zach: interior passes.

Axolotl wrote:Maybe Markkanen should sometimes opt for a midrange jumper instead of that dragging floater? I admit a part of me wanting him to take those jumpers is aesthetics - that delayed floater is fugly.

I'm really surprised he hasn't tried to develop a counter off that move because teams have clearly scouted it and are playing him in anticipation. I've been thinking he needs a spin move or euro step counter (coming back to his right when driving left) since late last season. Lebron has both those in his arsenal and obviously it helps to be a complete tank of a guy that guys bounce off but Lauri should watch some clips of how Lebron uses those off his dribble drive.

madvillian wrote: Lebron has both those in his arsenal and obviously it helps to be a complete tank of a guy that guys bounce off but Lauri should watch some clips of how Lebron uses those off his dribble drive.

Lauri is pretty big. He's not going to push around a true center or an old-style #4, but in this day of small lineups Lauri will sometimes be the tank. For example, he can push around anybody in Toronto except Gasol and Ibaka.

madvillian wrote:

Axolotl wrote:Maybe Markkanen should sometimes opt for a midrange jumper instead of that dragging floater? I admit a part of me wanting him to take those jumpers is aesthetics - that delayed floater is fugly.

I'm really surprised he hasn't tried to develop a counter off that move because teams have clearly scouted it and are playing him in anticipation. I've been thinking he needs a spin move or euro step counter (coming back to his right when driving left) since late last season. Lebron has both those in his arsenal and obviously it helps to be a complete tank of a guy that guys bounce off but Lauri should watch some clips of how Lebron uses those off his dribble drive.

Thing is Lebron didn't develop those counters until much later into his career. Even during the Miami years, I remember reading during Lebron was weak on one side and Jimmy should push him towards that way.

rtblues wrote:

dice wrote:

rtblues wrote:Quaint? mmmkay

as in interesting but of minimal importance, yes

quaint
adjective
adjective: quaint; comparative adjective: quainter; superlative adjective: quaintest
attractively unusual or old-fashioned.
"quaint country cottages"
Similar:
picturesque
charming
sweet
attractive
pleasantly old-fashioned
https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=Quaint

dictionary.com

2. strange, peculiar, or unusual in an interesting, pleasing, or amusing way

3 skillfully or cleverly made

both fit how I view the quaint link that you posted. mmmkay?

FecesOfDeath wrote:

dice wrote:

rules changes took out post play

such as?

The five second back to the basket violation rule, informally known as the Charles Barkley Rule.

i think of andre miller/mark jackson backing down small point guards

madvillian wrote:

Axolotl wrote:Maybe Markkanen should sometimes opt for a midrange jumper instead of that dragging floater? I admit a part of me wanting him to take those jumpers is aesthetics - that delayed floater is fugly.

I'm really surprised he hasn't tried to develop a counter off that move because teams have clearly scouted it and are playing him in anticipation. I've been thinking he needs a spin move or euro step counter (coming back to his right when driving left) since late last season. Lebron has both those in his arsenal and obviously it helps to be a complete tank of a guy that guys bounce off but Lauri should watch some clips of how Lebron uses those off his dribble drive.

As I said earlier in this thread, that drag/hesitation floater is already a crutch for him and I don't like the move that much anyway. It's predictable and inflexible. Once he commits to it by gathering the ball, he's out of options.

one thing that i think is worthwhile as it pertains to zach specifically is that he's got the potential to be a really, really good pull-up 3pt guy. he shot 37% on pull-up threes last year (compared to 35% on pull-up twos!), and just anecdotally it seems like he doesn't need a ton of space to rise and fire. he's got a good stroke, and the off-the-bounce three is one of the most valuable skills a lead guard can have in today's nba. he should definitely be trying to make that a central component of his game

in addition to the added value of a three pointer vs. a two, making those shots forces defenders to pick their poison. either they guard you tight and leave themselves open to a blow-by, or they're giving you a little cushion which invites the pull-up.

so yeah i think the analytics people are giving him good advice

jim boylen is good?

nomorezorro wrote:

Read on Twitter

jim boylen is good?

I'm telling you guys he's solid. He's an analytical mind in a meathead's body and voice that has passion for his players and their improvement on and off the floor. If he sounded more like Pops when he talked a lot more people would listen but people see him as just another Bulls stooge coach. Not true.

This whole thing is so stupid. We're talking about someone that took 2.5 shots from 15-23 feet (non-3s) per game. You're not talking about a player that shot from that range 10 times per game. Reduce that number by 1 shot per game, and things should be more in line with what the "team" wants.

Reporter "So you would have let Jordan shoot"?
Jim Boylen "I probably would have".




Jim. Jimbo. Big Guy. Probably? Just stop...

i assume that was joking that doesn't get conveyed well over text