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Backup minute battle between Luke, Hutch, Val, Shaq

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Backup minute battle between Luke, Hutch, Val, Shaq 

Post#1 » by sco » Sun Oct 13, 2019 2:58 pm

The back-up SF minutes create an interesting opportunity to shift guys around. Was wondering what this board thinks about:

1) Val is essentially limited to being a 3 point specialist and a defensive liability.
2) Hutch, in addition to being injured, has shown limited offensive ability, but is defensively capable
3) Shaq is a defensive specialist and would be giving up size to defend SF's

The flexibility of other guys is the real key here:
1) Luke, who, IMO is very capable to play PF, alongside Gafford.
2) Sato, is capable of playing some SF
3) Coby, is capable of backing up PG and SG
4) Thad is capable of playing some SF

IMO, I am leaning toward finding line-ups and getting more minutes for our best bench guys, who to me are Thad, Luke, Coby, Gafford and Arci, and not playing Val or Hutch. So I like line-ups like:

Arci, Coby, Thad, Luke, Gafford
Sato, Coby, Thad, Luke, Gafford
Arci, Coby, Sato, Thad, Luke
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Re: Backup minute battle between Luke, Hutch, Val, Shaq 

Post#2 » by League Circles » Sun Oct 13, 2019 3:13 pm

It's really tough. IMO there are only 7 guys on this team who are locks right now to be rotation players:

Carter
Lauri
Otto
Lavine
Tomas
Coby
Young

We should /will be using a 9-11 man rotation. I basically think everyone else is roughly equal in the running. I think you have to assume that one and only one of Luke or Gafford, or much less likely Felicio, will be in it. So that's 8 guys.

The other 1-3 guys IMO are really going to be a tight competition IMO between basically everyone else:

Hutchison
Valentine
Shaq
Dunn
Arci

My gut thought is that which guys make it will actually be more dependent on how well guys like Coby do than who's exactly the best outright from among this bench group.

I think Valentine is the biggest liability of that group, followed by Dunn. Those are the two guys that can really "lose" the game for you, despite me liking Dunn.

I think we'll see a lot of platoon arrangements with these 5 guys at first, with only 2 of them usually playing on a given night. We could really use a veteran perimeter bench player.
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Re: Backup minute battle between Luke, Hutch, Val, Shaq 

Post#3 » by Pax for Prez » Sun Oct 13, 2019 4:53 pm

League Circles wrote:It's really tough. IMO there are only 7 guys on this team who are locks right now to be rotation players:

Carter
Lauri
Otto
Lavine
Tomas
Coby
Young

We should /will be using a 9-11 man rotation. I basically think everyone else is roughly equal in the running. I think you have to assume that one and only one of Luke or Gafford, or much less likely Felicio, will be in it. So that's 8 guys.

The other 1-3 guys IMO are really going to be a tight competition IMO between basically everyone else:

Hutchison
Valentine
Shaq
Dunn
Arci

My gut thought is that which guys make it will actually be more dependent on how well guys like Coby do than who's exactly the best outright from among this bench group.

I think Valentine is the biggest liability of that group, followed by Dunn. Those are the two guys that can really "lose" the game for you, despite me liking Dunn.

I think we'll see a lot of platoon arrangements with these 5 guys at first, with only 2 of them usually playing on a given night. We could really use a veteran perimeter bench player.


Agreed with this, the TOP 7 guys will get their minutes

The rest will be based on game by game matchups.

SF Hutchison and C Gafford will be for defense and SF Valentine and C Kornet will be offense.

Dunn could provide a spark if needed during a game and Arch will provide safe/stability play in closer games.

Harrison and Felicio will barely leave the bench.

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Re: Backup minute battle between Luke, Hutch, Val, Shaq 

Post#4 » by LateNight » Sun Oct 13, 2019 5:09 pm

Outside of the main 7 : Luke, Gaff, Arci and Zel are the other guys I’m interested in seeing.

Bench could probably be:
G: Arci
G: Coby
SF: Zel/Young
PF: Young/Luke
C: Luke/Gaff
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Re: Backup minute battle between Luke, Hutch, Val, Shaq 

Post#5 » by SfBull » Sun Oct 13, 2019 5:20 pm

Pax for Prez wrote:
League Circles wrote:It's really tough. IMO there are only 7 guys on this team who are locks right now to be rotation players:

Carter
Lauri
Otto
Lavine
Tomas
Coby
Young

We should /will be using a 9-11 man rotation. I basically think everyone else is roughly equal in the running. I think you have to assume that one and only one of Luke or Gafford, or much less likely Felicio, will be in it. So that's 8 guys.

The other 1-3 guys IMO are really going to be a tight competition IMO between basically everyone else:

Hutchison
Valentine
Shaq
Dunn
Arci

My gut thought is that which guys make it will actually be more dependent on how well guys like Coby do than who's exactly the best outright from among this bench group.

I think Valentine is the biggest liability of that group, followed by Dunn. Those are the two guys that can really "lose" the game for you, despite me liking Dunn.

I think we'll see a lot of platoon arrangements with these 5 guys at first, with only 2 of them usually playing on a given night. We could really use a veteran perimeter bench player.


Agreed with this, the TOP 7 guys will get their minutes

The rest will be based on game by game matchups.

SF Hutchison and C Gafford will be for defense and SF Valentine and C Kornet will be offense.

Dunn could provide a spark if needed during a game and Arch will provide safe/stability play in closer games.

Harrison and Felicio will barely leave the bench.

Pax

I disagree about Shaq ,he made an excellent Summer League and will get his minutes in the backup rotation,we aren't talking much about him because he's been injured.
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Re: Backup minute battle between Luke, Hutch, Val, Shaq 

Post#6 » by transplant » Sun Oct 13, 2019 6:56 pm

Not sure why, but Young hasn't played much SF in this decade.

Some of the guys mentioned could match up with some smaller SFs, but of the backups, Hutchison is the only guy who is a natural SF. As I've said before, he's important to this team's success.
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Re: Backup minute battle between Luke, Hutch, Val, Shaq 

Post#7 » by Axolotl » Sun Oct 13, 2019 7:36 pm

Arcidiacono won't lose you games, but won't win them for you either. Dunn, at his best, can win games, but hasn't for a long time. If he doesn't get his game to fit, he may end up a losing factor. Harrison is a situational specialist.

The real hole is at small forward. If, as it would seem, Satoransky is the starting point guard, and fits well with the starters, playing him as a backup sf would be wasteful. Valentine is still a question mark, Hutchison has shown nothing and has been injured. Can't say anything about Thad Young as a sf but maybe. I hope Valentine or/and Hutchison pan out.
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Re: Backup minute battle between Luke, Hutch, Val, Shaq 

Post#8 » by ZOMG » Sun Oct 13, 2019 8:46 pm

Axolotl wrote:Arcidiacono won't lose you games, but won't win them for you either. Dunn, at his best, can win games, but hasn't for a long time. If he doesn't get his game to fit, he may end up a losing factor. Harrison is a situational specialist.

The real hole is at small forward. If, as it would seem, Satoransky is the starting point guard, and fits well with the starters, playing him as a backup sf would be wasteful. Valentine is still a question mark, Hutchison has shown nothing and has been injured. Can't say anything about Thad Young as a sf but maybe. I hope Valentine or/and Hutchison pan out.


Thad as a 3? Hell no.

I'd much rather play Markkanen as a nominal small forward. Wouldn't make much diffence to his responsibilities anyway.
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Re: Backup minute battle between Luke, Hutch, Val, Shaq 

Post#9 » by bad knees » Mon Oct 14, 2019 3:40 am

Our best backup SF’s are Sato and Coby. When OPJ is out, I expect to see a lot of Arch at PG and three-guard lineups comprised of three of Arci, Zach, coby and Sato.

Thad can’t play SF and hasn’t done so in a decade. Val can’t get it done and Hutch can’t reasonably be projected as a contributor this season.

And Dunn is not a plus player at any position.
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Re: Backup minute battle between Luke, Hutch, Val, Shaq 

Post#10 » by mack2354 » Mon Oct 14, 2019 3:55 am

When we first got Young I thought he could play some SF for us too. After watching him move around this preseason I have soured on it. If Val and Hutchinson don't get their act together I think we'll see a lot of 3 guard lineups in the second unit.

Arch - Coby - Dunn
Arch - Coby - Shaq
Dunn - Coby - Shaq

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Re: Backup minute battle between Luke, Hutch, Val, Shaq 

Post#11 » by kodo » Mon Oct 14, 2019 7:06 am

Vs Toronto the backup 3 minutes went to Coby, and he played pretty well on both ends.

Thad Young is a small PF not a wing, he's shaky if he has to put the ball on the floor & create and he isn't a shooter unless it's a set shot, and even then it's iffy. Thad has also gotten minutes at the 5 this preseason, he's more likely a 4-5 than a 4-3.

Val is a talented shooter and willing passer but he seems forever injured, and he'll always be rusty if he's constantly injured. It's just not worth it unless his injury problems are truly behind him. It's too bad, he had one of the best starts for a 2nd year SG shooting from 3.
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Re: Backup minute battle between Luke, Hutch, Val, Shaq 

Post#12 » by sco » Mon Oct 14, 2019 11:38 am

I am advocating for 8-10 MPG of That at SF so we can roll with Arci, Coby, Thad, Luke, Gafford. Basically, giving whoever's SF minutes to Gafford, who IMO, is better than Val, Dunn, Hutch, Shaq right now. Thad has been been a 3rd playmaker and is a crafty defender such that I wouldn't worry about him getting exposed by too many 3's. I think that he will get "quicker" like most vets, when the real season begins...with ball handling tightening up and shots falling. Also, having 2 rim protectors with Gafford and Luke on the floor adds additional protection.
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Re: Backup minute battle between Luke, Hutch, Val, Shaq 

Post#13 » by Hugi Mancura » Mon Oct 14, 2019 11:59 am

Agree on that top 7, but WCJ:s minutes might be limited in the early of the season. Watching WCJ in his first game I wouldn't be surprised if Young would be a starter until WCJ gets in shape. White is a scorer, so having defensive specialist next to him at SF position who can't score is not that harmful. So having Hutch next to him is not that bad, but he is injured and when he comes back it takes couple weeks to get to playing shape. Valentine has been a disappointment and I think FO expected him to be the bench SF. Right now he is not good enough for that role. Until Hutch and / or Valentine start showing something bench SF is the weakest spot. Against smaller team I wouldn't be surprised to see 3 guard line ups.
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Re: Backup minute battle between Luke, Hutch, Val, Shaq 

Post#14 » by coldfish » Mon Oct 14, 2019 2:49 pm

As others have noted:
- Sato is going to play the 1,2 and 3.
- Coby is going to play the 1 and 2
- Arci will play the 1. He isn't going to be frozen out.
- Thad will play the 4 and 5 along with Lauri, Luke and Wendell.

There are basically 8-12 minutes available at the 3 spot. Either Hutch or Val is going to have to play.
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Re: Backup minute battle between Luke, Hutch, Val, Shaq 

Post#15 » by musiqsoulchild » Mon Oct 14, 2019 6:27 pm

Jim/ John and Gar will do everything they need to make the playoffs this year. Its clear from the moves they have made.

This translates to a short rotation with only the experienced vets playing.

The one position where we have a depth issue is at C. Wendell isnt that good yet and he's just coming back from an injury. Thad isnt big enough to play C. Neither is Otto. That leaves only Kornet and Lauri with Felicio to man the C in the event of Wendell sitting out a few games.

SF isnt as big an issue.
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Re: Backup minute battle between Luke, Hutch, Val, Shaq 

Post#16 » by madvillian » Mon Oct 14, 2019 6:35 pm

bad knees wrote:Our best backup SF’s are Sato and Coby. When OPJ is out, I expect to see a lot of Arch at PG and three-guard lineups comprised of three of Arci, Zach, coby and Sato.

Thad can’t play SF and hasn’t done so in a decade. Val can’t get it done and Hutch can’t reasonably be projected as a contributor this season.

And Dunn is not a plus player at any position.


Yea and last night was probably the preview of it. Coby playing as the three with Zach as the lead guard playing a role Dunn cannot on offense as floor spacer. Dunn has no role on this team. Archi gives you basically the same defensive impact (which is sad really as Dunn is no longer even an average defender imo) but can actually space the floor.

Archi will come in at times and shift Sato to the three. Dunn will likely be relegated to garbage time and emergency situations from injury or foul trouble.
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Re: Backup minute battle between Luke, Hutch, Val, Shaq 

Post#17 » by sco » Mon Oct 14, 2019 7:40 pm

madvillian wrote:
bad knees wrote:Our best backup SF’s are Sato and Coby. When OPJ is out, I expect to see a lot of Arch at PG and three-guard lineups comprised of three of Arci, Zach, coby and Sato.

Thad can’t play SF and hasn’t done so in a decade. Val can’t get it done and Hutch can’t reasonably be projected as a contributor this season.

And Dunn is not a plus player at any position.


Yea and last night was probably the preview of it. Coby playing as the three with Zach as the lead guard playing a role Dunn cannot on offense as floor spacer. Dunn has no role on this team. Archi gives you basically the same defensive impact (which is sad really as Dunn is no longer even an average defender imo) but can actually space the floor.

Archi will come in at times and shift Sato to the three. Dunn will likely be relegated to garbage time and emergency situations from injury or foul trouble.

I think you have a good point. Sato should be playing point 30 MPG; whether he guards the 1-2-3 will depend on who he plays next to.

IMO, Arci, Coby, Thad, Luke are a very good foursome off the bench. I suspect that Val, Hutch, Shaq and Gafford will all be tested to see if any are rotation-worthy, but you could also just rotate minutes with Zach, Otto, Sato and Lauri to fill the minutes hole.
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Re: Backup minute battle between Luke, Hutch, Val, Shaq 

Post#18 » by PaKii94 » Mon Oct 14, 2019 8:11 pm

I think the distribution comes down to guards/forwards/center

That's 96 mins/96 mins/48 mins

These are who we know as locks:

Sato [30]
Lavine [34]
Otto [32]
Lauri [34]
WCJ [32]
Thad [30]


That leaves:
guards - 32
forwards - 0
center - 16

I think we can pencil in Coby for 20 minutes and Kornet should play the 16 at center leaving

guards - 12

This 12 minutes can then be filled by Archi/Dunn/Shaq/Val

I think the primary fits for those 12 mins will be Archi & Shaq for offense/defense purposes. I think Dunn & Val will be out of the rotation. Gafford will be G league. I like his minutes but he's still a little raw. The wild card is Hutch. if he can show his defense from last year and some progression on offense, he can help reduce OPJ/Thad's workload and can provide the 3rd wing depth we need.

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