Bulls @ Raptors: Preseason Game #4

[MrSparkle]

Just watched Morant against Charlotte. This kid is one of the fastest players the game has ever seen, and his offensive IQ is off the freaking charts.

Crazy how two tank years in a row and we missed on Zion, Ja, Luka, Trae..

[GameBredAPBT]

Just watched Morant against Charlotte. This kid is one of the fastest players the game has ever seen, and his offensive IQ is off the freaking charts.

Crazy how two tank years in a row and we missed on Zion, Ja, Luka, Trae..

I really like Coby White though. I don’t think he’ll be as good as Morant, who is a prodigy as far as I’m concerned, but I don’t think he’ll be *that* much worse. White’s game reminds me a lot of J.Murray’s, with crappier hops(Jamal can put people on posters, I don’t believe I’ve ever seen Coby dunk), but not as bone~headed, and better defender. Even then, that comparison doesn’t really hold up, as White is a very unique, dynamic player. His fearless disposition is exactly what the Bulls needed.

[VolumePoster]

Just watched Morant against Charlotte. This kid is one of the fastest players the game has ever seen, and his offensive IQ is off the freaking charts.

Crazy how two tank years in a row and we missed on Zion, Ja, Luka, Trae..

It’s a bummer. Those are the next generational players. The lotto luck has been seriously lacking!

[Repeat 3-peat]

I'll assume that most of the starters besides WCJ(well maybe he won't but he needs to play) will sit for the last preseason game.

Still a bummer that Hutch has not played. His defense and rebounding would be a plus for the bench.

Used to be where the last preseason game was treated the most like a real game. You play your starters the most and you use this last chance to tune up for game #1. I don't like the idea of benching everyone and treating it like a throw away. I think the Bulls should take it seriously and try to simulate a real game as best they can. I would like to see Boylen and the Bulls take the opportunity and treat this last game (at least the 1st and 3rd Q's, like it means something. Play the guys that will be playing together, together. Work on your sets and work on your defensive rotations. Let them start to try and find a rhythm and get their timing down.

For some reason I was thinking that the last preseason would be treated like an NFL 4th preseason game where nothing but backups play.

[JimmyJammer]

Does anyone else think Thomas Satoransky looks like Zach LaVine?

Maybe its my eyes or the resolution of the stream I was watching but I had to do a double take sometimes

I know they don't look anything alike but in many instances I get mixed up taking one for another depending on the screen angle.
I thought I was the only one.

[JimmyJammer]

Read on Twitter

Kept forgetting Shaq is on the team too. That's an elite defender we can put at the PG/SG spot - an even better defender than Dunn with more steals, less turnovers, better ability to draw foul, and much better finishing at the rim.

Thinking a lineup of:
Arch / Shaq / White / Young / Kornet

We're kinda small with Arch 6'3, Shaq 6'4, and Coby 6'5, but I kinda like the dynamics. Might be ok vs other team's second units. He's pretty fast with the ball too, so we'll have a really speedy version of Shaq and Coby.

The Bulls had Shaq in the Summerleague and he killed it so much in the first game, the organization decided they had seen enough and did not want anyone else to see what they already know. I know Dunn likes to talk about being a dog, but Shaq is the real dog on the team. He brings it on every possession and from end to end. He kind of reminds me of a shorter version of Andreas Nocioni. At 6ft4, though limited size wise, I'd take my chances any day of the week with him on the wings than Hutchison and Valentine. The kid makes things happen. It's unfortunate he is not 6ft6, otherwise we would have our sg/sf position locked down.

[erlim]

Read on Twitter

Kept forgetting Shaq is on the team too. That's an elite defender we can put at the PG/SG spot - an even better defender than Dunn with more steals, less turnovers, better ability to draw foul, and much better finishing at the rim.

Thinking a lineup of:
Arch / Shaq / White / Young / Kornet

We're kinda small with Arch 6'3, Shaq 6'4, and Coby 6'5, but I kinda like the dynamics. Might be ok vs other team's second units. He's pretty fast with the ball too, so we'll have a really speedy version of Shaq and Coby.

The Bulls had Shaq in the Summerleague and he killed it so much in the first game, the organization decided they had seen enough and did not want anyone else to see what they already know. I know Dunn likes to talk about being a dog, but Shaq is the real dog on the team. He brings it on every possession and from end to end. He kind of reminds me of a shorter version of Andreas Nocioni. At 6ft4, though limited size wise, I'd take my chances any day of the week with him on the wings than Hutchison and Valentine. The kid makes things happen. It's unfortunate he is not 6ft6, otherwise we would have our sg/sf position locked down.

I mean he is by far our most athletic player based on those shuttle run things Boylen has the players doing, and that says something with a high jumping Zach Lavine on the team.

[bad knees]

Just watched Morant against Charlotte. This kid is one of the fastest players the game has ever seen, and his offensive IQ is off the freaking charts.

Crazy how two tank years in a row and we missed on Zion, Ja, Luka, Trae..

It’s a bummer. Those are the next generational players. The lotto luck has been seriously lacking!

The Bulls, not the lotto gods, are responsible for us missing out on Luka. That year we were clear ringers for worst record in the league. Instead of rolling with the pure tank, the Bulls tried to thread the needle by re-signing Mirotic in the hope of trading him for a first round pick AND tanking. Well, we got the pick, which turned into Hutch, but having Mirotic on the roster for a few months caused us to go from 3-23 and a huge lead in the tanking race, to 7th best record. As a result, the Hawks finished with the worst record and the third pick in the draft, which would have been Luka had they not traded the pick for Trae and another pick.

So we essentially traded Luka for WCJ and Hutch. I love WCJ but that was a bad result that was clearly
predictable at the time we signed Mirotic. Many of us said so at the time.

[IamSam]

Does anyone else think Thomas Satoransky looks like Zach LaVine?

Maybe its my eyes or the resolution of the stream I was watching but I had to do a double take sometimes

I know they don't look anything alike but in many instances I get mixed up taking one for another depending on the screen angle.
I thought I was the only one.

I think they are similar in size and skin tone; when they are running, I definitely get them a little mixed up.

[SfBull]

But, Dunn should never, ever, see the floor with Lavine.

I dont want to see Dunn on floor with anyone. Not just Lavine. He doesnt fit with anyone because he simply isnt good player. It's also pretty clear Bulls are trying to shop Dunn with minutes he is getting. Stacey and King also spouting like car salemans for Gar on TV, something about starting.

It's hard to watch. Because for instance Coby White in 3 preseason games completely outplayed, outclassed Kris Dunn. Yet Coby should come off bench because he is "rookie" and Dunn should battle for starting position because "he is not a rookie".

You either can ball or you cant. Lavine can ball, Coby can ball, Sato can ball. Play those who can ball.

Let's play Harrison for extended minutes against the Hawks, he'll certainly fit much better with that rotations than Dunn.

[BigJimFinn]

Kornet is a true ode to Bill Wennington and Will Perdue.

I’m still confused why Knicks decided to overpay for about 8 FA big men yet let go of arguably the best and cheapest one they actually had the rights to.

Because they are the Knicks, and they have a reputation to uphold.

I expect when Feliciano is done in Chicago the Knicks will give him ALL THE YEARS AND ALL THE MONEY, since they like Bulls leftovers.

I wouldn't put it past the Knicks to sign a 74 yr old, 5'5" guy who used to be kind of a star, but even they might draw the line at being actually blind. Still, he would be a great free agent addition to JD and the Straight Shot.

[bearadonisdna]

Crazy how two tank years in a row and we missed on Zion, Ja, Luka, Trae..

It’s a bummer. Those are the next generational players. The lotto luck has been seriously lacking!

The Bulls, not the lotto gods, are responsible for us missing out on Luka. That year we were clear ringers for worst record in the league. Instead of rolling with the pure tank, the Bulls tried to thread the needle by re-signing Mirotic in the hope of trading him for a first round pick AND tanking. Well, we got the pick, which turned into Hutch, but having Mirotic on the roster for a few months caused us to go from 3-23 and a huge lead in the tanking race, to 7th best record. As a result, the Hawks finished with the worst record and the third pick in the draft, which would have been Luka had they not traded the pick for Trae and another pick.

So we essentially traded Luka for WCJ and Hutch. I love WCJ but that was a bad result that was clearly
predictable at the time we signed Mirotic. Many of us said so at the time.

Hoiberg was the real culprit in misnavigating that tank.
Imo that was the main reason he was fired.Last season the bulls were in striking distance of a bottom record or being out of the bottom 5 all together.
Imagine how bad he had to have been that they preferred to have an abhorrent rest of the season than stick with fred any longer.
At the same time there was a narrative about nagy being arrogant so maybe the bulls kneejerked the decision. Thats just conjecture but i attribute freds wavering demeanor and at times zach's tank derailing more hindering to a tank than retaining mirotic.
Heck i learned from these very bulls its wiser to tank with talent than without

[bad knees]

It’s a bummer. Those are the next generational players. The lotto luck has been seriously lacking!

The Bulls, not the lotto gods, are responsible for us missing out on Luka. That year we were clear ringers for worst record in the league. Instead of rolling with the pure tank, the Bulls tried to thread the needle by re-signing Mirotic in the hope of trading him for a first round pick AND tanking. Well, we got the pick, which turned into Hutch, but having Mirotic on the roster for a few months caused us to go from 3-23 and a huge lead in the tanking race, to 7th best record. As a result, the Hawks finished with the worst record and the third pick in the draft, which would have been Luka had they not traded the pick for Trae and another pick.

So we essentially traded Luka for WCJ and Hutch. I love WCJ but that was a bad result that was clearly
predictable at the time we signed Mirotic. Many of us said so at the time.

Hoiberg was the real culprit in misnavigating that tank.
Imo that was the main reason he was fired.Last season the bulls were in striking distance of a bottom record or being out of the bottom 5 all together.
Imagine how bad he had to have been that they preferred to have an abhorrent rest of the season than stick with fred any longer.
At the same time there was a narrative about nagy being arrogant so maybe the bulls kneejerked the decision. Thats just conjecture but i attribute freds wavering demeanor and at times zach's tank derailing more hindering to a tank than retaining mirotic.
Heck i learned from these very bulls its wiser to tank with talent than without

The damage to the tank was done in Dec and Jan, when Mirotic’s return turned the Bulls from 3-23 to a better than .500 team during that time period. We went from last to 7th worst record, and then stayed there. Zach and Fred were there before, during and after that run. I’m all for blaming stuff on Fred, but I don’t think this one was on him. It was the FO’s job to give Fred the worst team in the league that year, a year when everyone knew that a lot of teams were tanking. We have seen enough tanking teams to know that the players who are on the court will always try their best (well, almost always). Fred did his job by keeping Mirotic on the bench even though he was clearly better than Lauri. He had to give Mirotic some minutes on the court in order to implement the “extra pick” component of the strategy. The FO messed this up by having Mirotic on the team in the first place.

[GameBredAPBT]

The fact that Bagley isn’t getting mentioned is sad. I’ll laugh when he’s perhaps the best player from that draft & the Kings are one of the top teams out West in a few years.

[chefo]

The Bulls, not the lotto gods, are responsible for us missing out on Luka. That year we were clear ringers for worst record in the league. Instead of rolling with the pure tank, the Bulls tried to thread the needle by re-signing Mirotic in the hope of trading him for a first round pick AND tanking. Well, we got the pick, which turned into Hutch, but having Mirotic on the roster for a few months caused us to go from 3-23 and a huge lead in the tanking race, to 7th best record. As a result, the Hawks finished with the worst record and the third pick in the draft, which would have been Luka had they not traded the pick for Trae and another pick.

So we essentially traded Luka for WCJ and Hutch. I love WCJ but that was a bad result that was clearly
predictable at the time we signed Mirotic. Many of us said so at the time.

Hoiberg was the real culprit in misnavigating that tank.
Imo that was the main reason he was fired.Last season the bulls were in striking distance of a bottom record or being out of the bottom 5 all together.
Imagine how bad he had to have been that they preferred to have an abhorrent rest of the season than stick with fred any longer.
At the same time there was a narrative about nagy being arrogant so maybe the bulls kneejerked the decision. Thats just conjecture but i attribute freds wavering demeanor and at times zach's tank derailing more hindering to a tank than retaining mirotic.
Heck i learned from these very bulls its wiser to tank with talent than without

The damage to the tank was done in Dec and Jan, when Mirotic’s return turned the Bulls from 3-23 to a better than .500 team during that time period. We went from last to 7th worst record, and then stayed there. Zach and Fred were there before, during and after that run. I’m all for blaming stuff on Fred, but I don’t think this one was on him. It was the FO’s job to give Fred the worst team in the league that year, a year when everyone knew that a lot of teams were tanking. We have seen enough tanking teams to know that the players who are on the court will always try their best (well, almost always). Fred did his job by keeping Mirotic on the bench even though he was clearly better than Lauri. He had to give Mirotic some minutes on the court in order to implement the “extra pick” component of the strategy. The FO messed this up by having Mirotic on the team in the first place.

I agree and has been my main gripe with the Bulls' FO. They tend to half-ass things without much strategic consideration. Bobby broke Niko's face, and instead of shipping him out of town on the spot, they gave him a slap on the wrist because two scrubs in Val and Grant spoke on his behalf as being the leader of the 'young' players. When they started 3-23, and wanted to tank, they should have shut down anybody of any talent for the year...

Later that year, the Bulls stumbled on something special when the team caught fire with Niko, Lauri, Rolo and Bobby just demolishing people, and we had by far the easiest schedule of anybody remaining, they should have committed to trying to go all-in and make the playoffs. Niko and Lauri had the court so open that an AARP member could drive the lane. We were one good, productive guard/wing from being very, very good, with Niko playing out of his mind, like a top 15 player.

There was an outside chance that they could have pulled it off. Why? Because they had the most productive front-court in the league making something like $35M/year. Which is to say, they could have traded for a decent wing or a guard, and pushed the pedal to the metal and try to pull off something like a 20-3 finish. That would have left them with fan excitement, enough flexibility for a star, and a playoff-ready, young roster. If you were picking 7th or 12th, I don't think it makes that much of a difference historically-speaking, and several masterful tankers way ahead of us, there was no catching them in the L column.

Instead, they somehow managed to screw up the tanking despite starting 3-23, AND then when the team started kicking major butt, they shut it down, shipped out the best player of the bunch (who then went on to have an awesome postseason, in the West, no less) for a late 1st and similar-length salary (?!) AFTER the damage was already done. This was just as bad as the Cam Payne trade. It was a bad season for the FO.

But, yeah, these couple of years of half-measures and being unable to make up their mind, cost them potentially a franchise-level player, which WCJ is probably not. And not only that, when the media leaked that #3 was available, they seem to not have bid on it, which many of us Doncic supporters wanted them to do pre-draft, if the opportunity ever presented itself.

Anyhow, at least now they seem to have committed to trying to win, probably because Boss Jerry is on them to get some playoff revenues.

[MrSparkle]

The fact that Bagley isn’t getting mentioned is sad. I’ll laugh when he’s perhaps the best player from that draft & the Kings are one of the top teams out West in a few years.

Well big men do take a while to develop ...

But besides Shaq and Duncan, I struggle thinking of 1 big in the last 20 years who I’d value MORE than an mvp playmaking guard or especially a wing.

[SfBull]

The fact that Bagley isn’t getting mentioned is sad. I’ll laugh when he’s perhaps the best player from that draft & the Kings are one of the top teams out West in a few years.

Doncic was the best from that draft,no question about it,Bagley is and will be good , Doncic is on his way to be HOF.

[wonderboy2]

The fact that Bagley isn’t getting mentioned is sad. I’ll laugh when he’s perhaps the best player from that draft & the Kings are one of the top teams out West in a few years.

Doncic was the best from that draft,no question about it,Bagley is and will be good , Doncic is on his way to be HOF.

Whoaa Doncic is good but hall of fame is alittle much. He still have so much have to improve. I mean Doncic is not even better than prime Rose and it’s a good chance Rose will not be in the HOF. Let Doncic continue to play and develop. He is definitely a rising star though.

[wonderboy2]

Hoiberg was the real culprit in misnavigating that tank.
Imo that was the main reason he was fired.Last season the bulls were in striking distance of a bottom record or being out of the bottom 5 all together.
Imagine how bad he had to have been that they preferred to have an abhorrent rest of the season than stick with fred any longer.
At the same time there was a narrative about nagy being arrogant so maybe the bulls kneejerked the decision. Thats just conjecture but i attribute freds wavering demeanor and at times zach's tank derailing more hindering to a tank than retaining mirotic.
Heck i learned from these very bulls its wiser to tank with talent than without

The damage to the tank was done in Dec and Jan, when Mirotic’s return turned the Bulls from 3-23 to a better than .500 team during that time period. We went from last to 7th worst record, and then stayed there. Zach and Fred were there before, during and after that run. I’m all for blaming stuff on Fred, but I don’t think this one was on him. It was the FO’s job to give Fred the worst team in the league that year, a year when everyone knew that a lot of teams were tanking. We have seen enough tanking teams to know that the players who are on the court will always try their best (well, almost always). Fred did his job by keeping Mirotic on the bench even though he was clearly better than Lauri. He had to give Mirotic some minutes on the court in order to implement the “extra pick” component of the strategy. The FO messed this up by having Mirotic on the team in the first place.

I agree and has been my main gripe with the Bulls' FO. They tend to half-ass things without much strategic consideration. Bobby broke Niko's face, and instead of shipping him out of town on the spot, they gave him a slap on the wrist because two scrubs in Val and Grant spoke on his behalf as being the leader of the 'young' players. When they started 3-23, and wanted to tank, they should have shut down anybody of any talent for the year...

Later that year, the Bulls stumbled on something special when the team caught fire with Niko, Lauri, Rolo and Bobby just demolishing people, and we had by far the easiest schedule of anybody remaining, they should have committed to trying to go all-in and make the playoffs. Niko and Lauri had the court so open that an AARP member could drive the lane. We were one good, productive guard/wing from being very, very good, with Niko playing out of his mind, like a top 15 player.

There was an outside chance that they could have pulled it off. Why? Because they had the most productive front-court in the league making something like $35M/year. Which is to say, they could have traded for a decent wing or a guard, and pushed the pedal to the metal and try to pull off something like a 20-3 finish. That would have left them with fan excitement, enough flexibility for a star, and a playoff-ready, young roster. If you were picking 7th or 12th, I don't think it makes that much of a difference historically-speaking, and several masterful tankers way ahead of us, there was no catching them in the L column.

Instead, they somehow managed to screw up the tanking despite starting 3-23, AND then when the team started kicking major butt, they shut it down, shipped out the best player of the bunch (who then went on to have an awesome postseason, in the West, no less) for a late 1st and similar-length salary (?!) AFTER the damage was already done. This was just as bad as the Cam Payne trade. It was a bad season for the FO.

But, yeah, these couple of years of half-measures and being unable to make up their mind, cost them potentially a franchise-level player, which WCJ is probably not. And not only that, when the media leaked that #3 was available, they seem to not have bid on it, which many of us Doncic supporters wanted them to do pre-draft, if the opportunity ever presented itself.

Anyhow, at least now they seem to have committed to trying to win, probably because Boss Jerry is on them to get some playoff revenues.

Niko was playing well for that stretch but he is was never going to sustain that. He is what he is which is somebody that can have good stretches but be inconsistent at times. I would not want to give him a rich contract knowing how inconsistent he is. Doncic is baller. But even if the bulls ranked its not a garuntee they would’ve got Doncic anyway. I’m actually was more hurt by them missing out on Zion than Doncic to be honest but hey he’s on the pelicans and Doncic is on Dalas it is what it is. Bulls have a lot of young talent to work with. I’m for one am happy bulls got rid of Mirotic. He’s had good stretches but also had some god awful stretches as well. He’s been that way with every NBA team he played for. Does good but for some time and then just play bad for some stretches.

[SfBull]

The fact that Bagley isn’t getting mentioned is sad. I’ll laugh when he’s perhaps the best player from that draft & the Kings are one of the top teams out West in a few years.

Doncic was the best from that draft,no question about it,Bagley is and will be good , Doncic is on his way to be HOF.

Whoaa Doncic is good but hall of fame is alittle much. He still have so much have to improve. I mean Doncic is not even better than prime Rose and it’s a good chance Rose will not be in the HOF. Let Doncic continue to play and develop. He is definitely a rising star though.

He can play 3 positions,Rose didn't.I was one of the doubters about Doncic's transition for NBA level but he excelled all my expectations,I watched many Mavs games last season to say it,this guy will be HOF,like Zion will too, generational players,no need of that talking of they're young, they need to show more, they'll grow up, nothing ,both are on their way for winning NBA championships,you can count on it,Zion is that good.