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NBA: 5 rookies that have stood out during the first week of preseason

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Re: NBA: 5 rookies that have stood out during the first week of preseason 

Post#21 » by dougthonus » Tue Oct 15, 2019 3:05 pm

PlayerUp wrote:
dougthonus wrote:This draft class looked awful going in outside of Zion


Actually the draft is looking above average. You said it was awful. It's not awful simply on the basis that a generational prospect was in this draft class. Comparing to other drafts, it looks like it could be better than the 2013, 2014, 2015 and 2016 drafts. Weaker in depth than 2017 and 2018.


13-16 was an unprecedented run of awful, but yes, I agree it may be better than those. Simply having Zion makes it better than those. If Morant plays well then for sure.
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Re: NBA: 5 rookies that have stood out during the first week of preseason 

Post#22 » by JohnnyTapwater » Tue Oct 15, 2019 3:22 pm

Thybulle has been pretty solid too.
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Re: NBA: 5 rookies that have stood out during the first week of preseason 

Post#23 » by ATRAIN53 » Tue Oct 15, 2019 3:25 pm

guy didn't even write anything about 2 of them LOL

just says MPJ and Pool 'adjusted well' :noway:

It's also really not fair that MPJ gets ranked with them. He did a full season of NBA traveling and has an advantage.
Cool to see him playing either way - but it's an advantage.
It's kind like how Mahomes sat a full year in KC

Culver and Hunter are the ones I'm most curious about in the top tier.
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Re: NBA: 5 rookies that have stood out during the first week of preseason 

Post#24 » by dougthonus » Tue Oct 15, 2019 3:41 pm

coldfish wrote:I don't get the Coby stuff. The kid looks good for a 19 year old to me. He tries on defense. He is aggressive on offense. He is willing to pass the ball. His shot selection needs work but I don't see him forcing shots like a greedy chucker. He is just not familiar with the reads.

If you just close your mind to the stuff you believed about Coby before he came in and watch him with the recurring thought "this is a 19 year old with less than 5 games professional experience" it looks pretty good.


I didn't really have any expectations for Coby. So far I see the following:
1: Not an elite athlete, not sure if anyone said otherwise, but I think I mistook the idea that he pushes the pace hard with a guy who's a blur up and down the court. He's not that explosive of an athlete, he just pushes the pace hard.

2: Has very little court vision. May or may not be a long term problem, but it doesn't really exist.

3: Plays hard defensively and competes on that side of the floor though has limited defensive upside due to short arms which stop him from really challenging shots well. He's much better in denying penetration with his chest and playing physical than he is contesting shots.

4: Not afraid to go at it. He takes his shots, barrels into contact, plays physical on offense.

5: Thus far, not a very efficient player. He's not afraid to take his looks, but he's not finishing a good enough percentage of them right now (may or may not be a long term problem).

If I had to just take wild guesses, I would say he's probably a starting caliber but sub-all-star type player. I would expect much better ball handling / vision even at this stage for an elite PG, better shooting if he were the next Klay Thompson, and his lack of elite athleticism / size stop him bring having a huge advantage without elite skills.

That says, his physicality, good athleticism, and good skill level at this age means he's likely to become at least a good contributor over time.
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Re: NBA: 5 rookies that have stood out during the first week of preseason 

Post#25 » by The Force. » Tue Oct 15, 2019 8:54 pm

Nickeil Walker should definitely be on this list. He's looked better than most rookies thus far.

IMO these are the players who've stood out:

Zion
NAW
RJ Barrett
White
Culver
MPJ
Poole
PJ Washington
Tyler Herro

Morant and Brandon Clarke also looked good in their one game versus NBA competition.

This could end up being a very good rookie class.

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Re: NBA: 5 rookies that have stood out during the first week of preseason 

Post#26 » by PlayerUp » Wed Oct 16, 2019 9:25 am

dougthonus wrote:13-16 was an unprecedented run of awful, but yes, I agree it may be better than those. Simply having Zion makes it better than those. If Morant plays well then for sure.


Zion stands out of course but Morant, Barrett, Hunter, Garland, Culver, White, Rui, PJ Washington, Tyler Herro, Nickeil Alexander-Walker all showed good stuff as well.

Draft experts said this wasn't a good draft but it just shows you nobody really knows. The 2014 NBA Draft was considered a great draft turned out to be a historically overrated draft.
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Re: NBA: 5 rookies that have stood out during the first week of preseason 

Post#27 » by JimmyJammer » Wed Oct 16, 2019 11:34 am

dougthonus wrote:This draft class looked awful going in outside of Zion, and the fact that Coby White is one of the more impressive rookies through preseason doesn't do much to dispel that thought given his performance looks really up and down to me so far.

That said, reading the article, his commentary seemed reasonably shallow, so I wouldn't be surprised if this list is also poor.


Doug, Coby is impressive because he is in his element here, and not to have to worry about running the team an whatnot. That kid has been dropping bucket since his junior high school days but North Carolina tried to turn him into a traditional point guard, which he did to the best of his ability. Using Coby White as an example of why the draft class was not so impressive is not the right argument to make.

When it comes to the other draftees, I have to say that there have been some good ones and some disappointing ones. For instance, Tyler Hero, Morant, Barrett, Brandon Clarke, Culver, Porter, in addition to Zion and White look solid. That kid Carsen Edwards in Boston and Goga Bitadze and Garland are coming along nicely. But Reddish is continuing to be a crap as in Duke. Guys like Doumbaya and little whom many on here wanted are looking like they are star-struck. Hayes is not ready.

In conclusion, it's great to see White getting some recognition. He has proven that he can score with ease in a league where rookies are still trying to find themselves. His fg% definitely needs to go up, but his fearlessness and maturity on the grand stage are admirable.
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Re: NBA: 5 rookies that have stood out during the first week of preseason 

Post#28 » by dougthonus » Wed Oct 16, 2019 11:55 am

PlayerUp wrote:Zion stands out of course but Morant, Barrett, Hunter, Garland, Culver, White, Rui, PJ Washington, Tyler Herro, Nickeil Alexander-Walker all showed good stuff as well.

Draft experts said this wasn't a good draft but it just shows you nobody really knows. The 2014 NBA Draft was considered a great draft turned out to be a historically overrated draft.


I don't think anything "shows" yet. So far we're in preseason of their rookie seasons. You can't really judge a draft class for three years.

From my perspective, I'd be lying if I told you I've watched enough non-Bulls preseason to have an informed opinion about other rookies which is why I just mentioned if Coby is really in the top 5, it hasn't been great.
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Re: NBA: 5 rookies that have stood out during the first week of preseason 

Post#29 » by ATRAIN53 » Wed Oct 16, 2019 2:15 pm

add one more to the list......



I think if he was 6'+ and a PG, more teams would have been interested.
I watched him warm up last MAR before a NU game and he just sat there on the 3 point line and practiced his stroke. I remember thinking he had a nice shot but looked puny. He took a ton of 3s in that game and only made a few.

But that tourney game.......

I think BOS drafted the shortest and tallest guys in the draft!

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Re: NBA: 5 rookies that have stood out during the first week of preseason 

Post#30 » by suckfish » Wed Oct 16, 2019 11:24 pm

coldfish wrote:I don't get the Coby stuff. The kid looks good for a 19 year old to me. He tries on defense. He is aggressive on offense. He is willing to pass the ball. His shot selection needs work but I don't see him forcing shots like a greedy chucker. He is just not familiar with the reads.

If you just close your mind to the stuff you believed about Coby before he came in and watch him with the recurring thought "this is a 19 year old with less than 5 games professional experience" it looks pretty good.


I like his energy the most. Coby is out there flying around the court playing aggressive defense. He looks great physically showing strength and a quick first step.

His main areas to improve are his reads, shot selection, and fine tuning his jumper. Pretty standard things for a 19 year old guard unless your name is Luka.
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Re: NBA: 5 rookies that have stood out during the first week of preseason 

Post#31 » by dice » Thu Oct 17, 2019 3:55 am

ATRAIN53 wrote:guy didn't even write anything about 2 of them LOL

just says MPJ and Pool 'adjusted well' :noway:

It's also really not fair that MPJ gets ranked with them. He did a full season of NBA traveling and has an advantage.
Cool to see him playing either way - but it's an advantage.
It's kind like how Mahomes sat a full year in KC

Culver and Hunter are the ones I'm most curious about in the top tier.

my guess is that MPJ's draft stock would have been lower after a year of nba traveling than it was when he was drafted
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Re: NBA: 5 rookies that have stood out during the first week of preseason 

Post#32 » by beeshma » Thu Oct 17, 2019 5:19 am

ATRAIN53 wrote:guy didn't even write anything about 2 of them LOL

just says MPJ and Pool 'adjusted well' :noway:

It's also really not fair that MPJ gets ranked with them. He did a full season of NBA traveling and has an advantage.
Cool to see him playing either way - but it's an advantage.
It's kind like how Mahomes sat a full year in KC

Culver and Hunter are the ones I'm most curious about in the top tier.


I honestly think that, this year, Culver could deserve to be the starting PG ahead of Teague, or the starting SF ahead of Wiggins.

(not after you factor entitlement minutes, unfortunately)
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Re: NBA: 5 rookies that have stood out during the first week of preseason 

Post#33 » by TeamMan » Thu Oct 17, 2019 8:12 am

coldfish wrote:
PlayerUp wrote:
coldfish wrote:I don't get the Coby stuff. The kid looks good for a 19 year old to me. He tries on defense. He is aggressive on offense. He is willing to pass the ball. His shot selection needs work but I don't see him forcing shots like a greedy chucker. He is just not familiar with the reads.

If you just close your mind to the stuff you believed about Coby before he came in and watch him with the recurring thought "this is a 19 year old with less than 5 games professional experience" it looks pretty good.


Won't be 20 for 5 more months as well. Young for his class.

Zion is well ahead of everyone else but for Coby it's not what he is now but what he can develop into later. If we start seeing gradual improvements as the season progresses, good sign Coby could be a solid prospect.

For now, without a doubt he is far better than we expected.


The thing with Coby is that you don't have to imagine him with some set of skills that he doesn't actually have. You don't have to teach him to hustle or dribble or shoot or drive or play defense. He does all of that now. This isn't a Kris Dunn situation where he has to learn how to shoot. His biggest issue is just picking his spots better. Its little decisions that have to get better to make him effective.

IMO, his ceiling is limited. He isn't going to be a top 10 player and that's OK. I see virtually no chance of him busting at this point and there is a very good chance of him being an above average player.

Totally agree.

It came to me as a shock that he probably has the quickest feet on the team.

Dunn plays defense with his length. But it's hard for most PGs to beat Coby off the dribble. I've often seen him get isolated and afterwards make the player give up the dribble and pass the ball.
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Re: NBA: 5 rookies that have stood out during the first week of preseason 

Post#34 » by JimmyJammer » Thu Oct 17, 2019 11:25 am

TeamMan wrote:
coldfish wrote:
PlayerUp wrote:
Won't be 20 for 5 more months as well. Young for his class.

Zion is well ahead of everyone else but for Coby it's not what he is now but what he can develop into later. If we start seeing gradual improvements as the season progresses, good sign Coby could be a solid prospect.

For now, without a doubt he is far better than we expected.


The thing with Coby is that you don't have to imagine him with some set of skills that he doesn't actually have. You don't have to teach him to hustle or dribble or shoot or drive or play defense. He does all of that now. This isn't a Kris Dunn situation where he has to learn how to shoot. His biggest issue is just picking his spots better. Its little decisions that have to get better to make him effective.

IMO, his ceiling is limited. He isn't going to be a top 10 player and that's OK. I see virtually no chance of him busting at this point and there is a very good chance of him being an above average player.

Totally agree.

It came to me as a shock that he probably has the quickest feet on the team.

Dunn plays defense with his length. But it's hard for most PGs to beat Coby off the dribble. I've often seen him get isolated and afterwards make the player give up the dribble and pass the ball.


Great observation, Coby definitely has quick feet on the defensive end. His lateral steps to stay in front of his man is world class. This is a lost fundamental art in today's nba. When it comes to Dunn, he does play defense with his hands instead of his feet which often leads to him picking up silly fouls.
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Re: NBA: 5 rookies that have stood out during the first week of preseason 

Post#35 » by JimmyJammer » Thu Oct 17, 2019 11:28 am

beeshma wrote:
ATRAIN53 wrote:guy didn't even write anything about 2 of them LOL

just says MPJ and Pool 'adjusted well' :noway:

It's also really not fair that MPJ gets ranked with them. He did a full season of NBA traveling and has an advantage.
Cool to see him playing either way - but it's an advantage.
It's kind like how Mahomes sat a full year in KC

Culver and Hunter are the ones I'm most curious about in the top tier.


I honestly think that, this year, Culver could deserve to be the starting PG ahead of Teague, or the starting SF ahead of Wiggins.

(not after you factor entitlement minutes, unfortunately)


I don't see how you start Culver over these seasoned veterans now. It's not like he is not getting his minutes or anything, so let him continue to come off the bench to play against second units and revisit that by mid-season.
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Re: NBA: 5 rookies that have stood out during the first week of preseason 

Post#36 » by TheFinishSniper » Thu Oct 17, 2019 11:36 am

TeamMan wrote:

It came to me as a shock that he probably has the quickest feet on the team.

Dunn plays defense with his length. But it's hard for most PGs to beat Coby off the dribble. I've often seen him get isolated and afterwards make the player give up the dribble and pass the ball.

Coby cant play defense with his hands due short t-rex arms. Just like Jimmy he needs to use either quick feet or use good positioning and anticipation to make his defender scramble. Which is sign of decent BIQ.

And that's a sign of at least good team defender who can stay in front of his man.
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Re: NBA: 5 rookies that have stood out during the first week of preseason 

Post#37 » by PlayerUp » Thu Oct 17, 2019 12:36 pm

TheFinishSniper wrote:Coby cant play defense with his hands due short t-rex arms.


Measurements for reference.

Coby White, G, North Carolina: Height: 6'4 3/4 w/ shoes || Weight: 191 lbs. || Wingspan: 6'5 || Standing Reach: 8'1 1/2
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Re: NBA: 5 rookies that have stood out during the first week of preseason 

Post#38 » by beeshma » Thu Oct 17, 2019 2:55 pm

JimmyJammer wrote:
beeshma wrote:
ATRAIN53 wrote:guy didn't even write anything about 2 of them LOL

just says MPJ and Pool 'adjusted well' :noway:

It's also really not fair that MPJ gets ranked with them. He did a full season of NBA traveling and has an advantage.
Cool to see him playing either way - but it's an advantage.
It's kind like how Mahomes sat a full year in KC

Culver and Hunter are the ones I'm most curious about in the top tier.


I honestly think that, this year, Culver could deserve to be the starting PG ahead of Teague, or the starting SF ahead of Wiggins.

(not after you factor entitlement minutes, unfortunately)


I don't see how you start Culver over these seasoned veterans now. It's not like he is not getting his minutes or anything, so let him continue to come off the bench to play against second units and revisit that by mid-season.


Absolutely agree that this is not for the start of the season, but a possibility for later in the year. It could happen for many reasons:

The wolves might be terrible. Front office might finally give up on wiggins.Teague injury might allow Culver some starts at PG.

I’m just saying it’s in the realm of possibility. And my point is that Culver looks goof, like he might contribute to winning basketball.
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Re: NBA: 5 rookies that have stood out during the first week of preseason 

Post#39 » by ATRAIN53 » Thu Oct 17, 2019 7:28 pm

any thoughts on the Sixers Thybulle?

dude had 4 steals and 2 blocks the other night and projecting to be a role player already for the Sixers.
Thery were really excited when he started the other night. I was watching to see Rose but kept focusing on Thybulle instead.
He looks like a baby Jimmy Butler out there concentrating on D and taking the shot only if it's wide open.

This is how Jimmy blossomed - started out with solid D and developed into a pretty good scorer......

Sixers adding Richardson, Horford and this rookie - they have to be favorites to win the East IMO.

remember when Ben Gordon came off the bench as a rookie and won 6th man?
maybe this kid does the same as a lock down defender?

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