Coby White discussion - PG 40, Sets New NBA Records Wins Rookie of the Month

[bledredwine]

For what its worth, Coby White has the highest scoring average for a Bulls rookie in preseason since they first started keeping track like 20 years ago.

I don't know what MJ actually averaged during his preseason but I am sure it was ridiculous. But other than that, the next closest to Coby was Derrick at 13.9 as a rookie.

I’m also high on Coby as well, but due to the three ball, spacing and lack of defense, scoring numbers are more inflated than they’ve been in decades. It’s fairly regular for a rookie to average 20 now and was unheard of back in the day. Though Coby’s putting up impressive numbers, I’d say it’s comparible to Rose’s 14. And of course it’s preseason.

[Jcool0]

For what its worth, Coby White has the highest scoring average for a Bulls rookie in preseason since they first started keeping track like 20 years ago.

I don't know what MJ actually averaged during his preseason but I am sure it was ridiculous. But other than that, the next closest to Coby was Derrick at 13.9 as a rookie.

It was:

[Michael Jackson]

For what its worth, Coby White has the highest scoring average for a Bulls rookie in preseason since they first started keeping track like 20 years ago.

I don't know what MJ actually averaged during his preseason but I am sure it was ridiculous. But other than that, the next closest to Coby was Derrick at 13.9 as a rookie.

It was:

Great article. While there should never be a Coby or MJ comparison at all that article is so good to read. I was rather young I just remember how excited my sister was that we drafted Jordan and being forced to watch him his rookie season. Yeah forced. Now I force my kid to watch White... I had it better off lol.

[Senor Chang]

Stacey King has already used 99 problems but scoring aint 1 for Coby. Which I assume is his new "Too Big Too strong Too Fast Too Good"

Coby does have alot of cool nicknames potential though.

He was already tabbed SubZero that he had in highschool.

Ive heard people say "White Mamba" which actually works extremely well for obvious reasons.

I like White Mamba!

[MrSparkle]

Coby does have a smooth ‘glide’ with the ball. Let’s be honest; Bulls haven’t had a guy like this besides Rose, in the last 2 decades. He’s fast and skilled. He gets past your average NBA defenders rather effortlessly, and has a soft shooting touch.

Zach is fast but more in an athletic way. I don’t particularly think his handles are on par with his athleticism. He doesn’t really beat guys with his dribble, but rather his quickness and hops. But I am happy to eat crow if his pre-season play translates into the full season.

I will say, he started hot last year before plateau’ing more average. If he’s making shots, he’s a complete offensive star. When he’s not, it’s hard for him to be a net plus. Nice to see he’s making an effort to attack the rim, but that is a higher-risk game.

Anyway, my point is - does Zach play out of his mind and limit Coby’s minutes? Or do they play together?

Just hope Coby’s minutes and touches don’t go down a lot in regular season. Wouldn’t be the first time a Bulls rookie wows us in pre-season and then gets buried and loses all confidence.

[rtblues]

At the risk of starting a Shi*t-storm and getting trolled, 1 quick question:
Q: Offensively, is Coby White Blakeney 2.0?

Dude seriously needs to start considering passing the ball.
Four assists total in preseason ain't a good thing.

Or, okay, fine, he simply plays the 6th man, Lou Williams type, microwave scorer off of the bench this season.
Which isn't necessarily a bad thing. All the talk of position-less players is fine, and having
said that, can we just acknowledge Coby ain't a PG? He won't run a team or distribute, so that
leaves what? Looking to score basically...

[JimmyJammer]

Coby Whie is faster than Jamal Murray.

And about the wingspan/short arms thing, I ask you, honestly, can you think of one instance in this preseason when watching White, where you thought, if only his arms were longer, or any specific play where it hampered his play? Cause I can't.
All that ish comes out of the combine and is like a label on guys. Really don't see this is a major issue, at all.

Murrays the better facilitator and shooter. For a guard that alone is a huge advantage and theres a reason why he got a max.
While White plays similar style, I cannot imagine him being max caliber. He would have to show a Jimmy Butler improvement to convince me hes a 3rd option on a title team. If they get someone like Beal, Hield tho I will be more optimistic.

Why do you guys like to do that? Comparing 22yr old Jamal Murray to 19yr old White and make a final determination of who is better and who is going to be better is so senseless. Jamal Murray of today is of course a more polished and better shooter than Coby White. But if you want a better idea of the Murray and White comparison, just go look at Murray's rookie season. He was not always this good of a shooter, shooting 40% from the floor and 33% from behind the 3pt line while averaging 9.5ppg and a paltry 2.4-assist. There is no doubt in my mind Coby White's rookie numbers will far exceed those of Murray's. So, the comparison of the two is a valid one if you take into consideration their career trajectory.

[JimmyJammer]

I predicted playoffs months ago after free agency. I feel more strongly about that now. Outside of Lauri and maybe Wendell, just about everyone who matters this preseason has been near best case scenario. Coby, Lavine, Otto, Sato, Thad and Kornett look good versus expectations. Even Boylen is doing all the right things.

I think one advantage that the Bulls will have going in to the season is that the players seem to know their roles and I think will do well in them.

I see it as:

Tomas - Vet starter. Good all round player
LaVine - #1 scorer
Porter - Glue guy. All round player
Markkanen - #2 scorer
WCJ - Defense and rebounding.

6th man: Coby White

From there you have Thad Young (good vet big to bring off the bench if the starters are struggling), Gafford (who will bring effort to prove himself), and Kornet (also effort). After that it becomes a bit of a question mark, but Hutchison and Valentine will most likely contribute too.

Great points all throughout, but it would be a good idea to also mention how Dunn has accepted his role as a defender and game manager. He really manages the game well which allows Coby to focus on what he does best which is scoring. I don't see Dunn forcing the issue much on offense anymore. So, that's a very good thing because he has every reason to want to do that while playing in the second unit and playing for a new contract.

[Red Larrivee]

At the risk of starting a Shi*t-storm and getting trolled, 1 quick question:
Q: Offensively, is Coby White Blakeney 2.0?

No.

Dude seriously needs to start considering passing the ball.
Four assists total in preseason ain't a good thing.

Or, okay, fine, he simply plays the 6th man, Lou Williams type, microwave scorer off of the bench this season.
Which isn't necessarily a bad thing. All the talk of position-less players is fine, and having
said that, can we just acknowledge Coby ain't a PG? He won't run a team or distribute, so that
leaves what? Looking to score basically...

White isn't a pure playmaker, but he isn't a black hole. White is a scoring combo guard, who needs to improve on running an NBA offense (shocker) and creating for others consistently. Fortunately for White, he can guard multiple positions on the floor, meaning he can also play multiple positions on the floor. Obviously, this is something Antonio Blakeney could not do.

White is still a PG in today's NBA. He's also a SG; hell, he could play SF depending on how small the lineups get. The bottomline is that there shouldn't be any concern about White actually being able to play the position in an offense that doesn't require a pure point guard to be effective. It's grab and go, and read and react. Everyone from 1-4 in our starting lineup can initiate on a given possession. Plus, we have a C who can be a big threat on DHOs and passing from the low or high post.

This is the absolute optimal situation for White's development. He'll gradually learn how to run offense more consistently, while not being required to do it a high volume on the job. Some nights the assists will not be there and some nights they will. This offense is less about making sure a particular player is getting the ball to the open man on each possession and more about making sure that everyone can find the open man on each possession.

[JimmyJammer]

At the risk of starting a Shi*t-storm and getting trolled, 1 quick question:
Q: Offensively, is Coby White Blakeney 2.0?

Dude seriously needs to start considering passing the ball.
Four assists total in preseason ain't a good thing.

Or, okay, fine, he simply plays the 6th man, Lou Williams type, microwave scorer off of the bench this season.
Which isn't necessarily a bad thing. All the talk of position-less players is fine, and having
said that, can we just acknowledge Coby ain't a PG? He won't run a team or distribute, so that
leaves what? Looking to score basically...

White and Blakeney do not belong in the same sentence. Coby is the better defender who plays within the confine of an offense, and he has a higher basketball IQ. Blakeney's problem was that he was a blackhole who would not play defense. There is a reason why he is playing overseas than in the NBA now.

[pylb]

Even if White turned out to be a black hole like Blakeney, he still has the better shot selection, a much quicker release and better defense imo.

[Axolotl]

At the risk of starting a Shi*t-storm and getting trolled, 1 quick question:
Q: Offensively, is Coby White Blakeney 2.0?

No. Blakeney was a mindless chucker, White is not.

In Blakeney's mind, wherever he got the ball and whatever the situation was, that was a good shot. Not so with White, his shots are not Blakeney-esque dribble to the middle and shoot contested, but simple catch an shoot -operations within the flow. It looks like the Bulls are using White as an off-ball shooter, and he's been thriving. Something Blakeney was not capable of.

Also, defence - one has it, the other didn't.

Dude seriously needs to start considering passing the ball.
Four assists total in preseason ain't a good thing.

Granted, that's not a good individual stat - but it doesn't matter. He's not a floor general, and I don't think he'll ever be one, but right now, by the look of it, on offence he has been tasked with two things: 1. catch, and 2. shoot. It's his call whether he executes the second point, and I think he has made those calls well.

All the talk of position-less players is fine, and having
said that, can we just acknowledge Coby ain't a PG? He won't run a team or distribute, so that
leaves what? Looking to score basically...

Yeah, he is not a point guard. Right now he is playing as a shooting guard, but I think he'll end up a combo guard. Nothing wrong with that - actually, I'd want five combo guards of varying sizes as a starting unit. That unit would be a killer.

[SHO'NUFF]

At the risk of starting a Shi*t-storm and getting trolled, 1 quick question:
Q: Offensively, is Coby White Blakeney 2.0?

Dude seriously needs to start considering passing the ball.
Four assists total in preseason ain't a good thing.

Or, okay, fine, he simply plays the 6th man, Lou Williams type, microwave scorer off of the bench this season.
Which isn't necessarily a bad thing. All the talk of position-less players is fine, and having
said that, can we just acknowledge Coby ain't a PG? He won't run a team or distribute, so that
leaves what? Looking to score basically...

Him having 0 assists has nothing to do with ball hogging which is exactly what Blakeney did. Coby plays through the offense. He does a great job passing the ball.

Playmaking?....that’s another thing. But, he did average 4 assists in college....so we know he can find the open man.

[rtblues]

At the risk of starting a Shi*t-storm and getting trolled, 1 quick question:
Q: Offensively, is Coby White Blakeney 2.0?

Dude seriously needs to start considering passing the ball.
Four assists total in preseason ain't a good thing.

Or, okay, fine, he simply plays the 6th man, Lou Williams type, microwave scorer off of the bench this season.
Which isn't necessarily a bad thing. All the talk of position-less players is fine, and having
said that, can we just acknowledge Coby ain't a PG? He won't run a team or distribute, so that
leaves what? Looking to score basically...

White and Blakeney do not belong in the same sentence. Coby is the better defender who plays within the confine of an offense, and he has a higher basketball IQ. Blakeney's problem was that he was a blackhole who would not play defense. There is a reason why he is playing overseas than in the NBA now.

First word in the QUESTION was, "Offensively" and the response is about White being a better defender, never mind, skip it.

[MeloRoseNoah]

Like Lavine, Coby White playmaking ability is going to come from his elite scoring. Let him develop into a 25+ ppg at TS >.600 first. The assists will naturally come.

[coldfish]

At the risk of starting a Shi*t-storm and getting trolled, 1 quick question:
Q: Offensively, is Coby White Blakeney 2.0?

Dude seriously needs to start considering passing the ball.
Four assists total in preseason ain't a good thing.

Or, okay, fine, he simply plays the 6th man, Lou Williams type, microwave scorer off of the bench this season.
Which isn't necessarily a bad thing. All the talk of position-less players is fine, and having
said that, can we just acknowledge Coby ain't a PG? He won't run a team or distribute, so that
leaves what? Looking to score basically...

When Blakeney played, he was a complete black hole. The ball went to him and you knew he was going to pound the ball for a few seconds and force up a shot. Usually a really bad one. The other players would just stand still once AB got the ball.

I don't see that with Coby at all. I have seen him swing the ball. Most of his shots come within the flow of the offense.

As others noted, that doesn't cover the fact that Coby pushes the ball, rebounds and plays defense too.

[coldfish]

Coby does have a smooth ‘glide’ with the ball. Let’s be honest; Bulls haven’t had a guy like this besides Rose, in the last 2 decades. He’s fast and skilled. He gets past your average NBA defenders rather effortlessly, and has a soft shooting touch.

Zach is fast but more in an athletic way. I don’t particularly think his handles are on par with his athleticism. He doesn’t really beat guys with his dribble, but rather his quickness and hops. But I am happy to eat crow if his pre-season play translates into the full season.

I will say, he started hot last year before plateau’ing more average. If he’s making shots, he’s a complete offensive star. When he’s not, it’s hard for him to be a net plus. Nice to see he’s making an effort to attack the rim, but that is a higher-risk game.

Anyway, my point is - does Zach play out of his mind and limit Coby’s minutes? Or do they play together?

Just hope Coby’s minutes and touches don’t go down a lot in regular season. Wouldn’t be the first time a Bulls rookie wows us in pre-season and then gets buried and loses all confidence.

At the end of the day, you are right. There are only so many shots available. Sato won't take many. That said, Otto, Lavine and Lauri are going to get theirs.

That said, Coby looks to be coming off the bench and is going to have the greenest of lights. He will get some minutes with the starters, possibly to close games but for the most part, I suspect a lot of his minutes are going to be with one starter. You will see groups like

Arci / Coby / Otto / Thad / Kornett

to close the second quarter and Coby will be free to do whatever he wants.

Its rare that I have seen a rookie this good that I really don't want to start.

[Ice Man]

Coby does have a smooth ‘glide’ with the ball. Let’s be honest; Bulls haven’t had a guy like this besides Rose, in the last 2 decades. He’s fast and skilled. He gets past your average NBA defenders rather effortlessly, and has a soft shooting touch.

Zach LaVine says, WTF?

[sco]

Coby does have a smooth ‘glide’ with the ball. Let’s be honest; Bulls haven’t had a guy like this besides Rose, in the last 2 decades. He’s fast and skilled. He gets past your average NBA defenders rather effortlessly, and has a soft shooting touch.

Zach is fast but more in an athletic way. I don’t particularly think his handles are on par with his athleticism. He doesn’t really beat guys with his dribble, but rather his quickness and hops. But I am happy to eat crow if his pre-season play translates into the full season.

I will say, he started hot last year before plateau’ing more average. If he’s making shots, he’s a complete offensive star. When he’s not, it’s hard for him to be a net plus. Nice to see he’s making an effort to attack the rim, but that is a higher-risk game.

Anyway, my point is - does Zach play out of his mind and limit Coby’s minutes? Or do they play together?

Just hope Coby’s minutes and touches don’t go down a lot in regular season. Wouldn’t be the first time a Bulls rookie wows us in pre-season and then gets buried and loses all confidence.

At the end of the day, you are right. There are only so many shots available. Sato won't take many. That said, Otto, Lavine and Lauri are going to get theirs.

That said, Coby looks to be coming off the bench and is going to have the greenest of lights. He will get some minutes with the starters, possibly to close games but for the most part, I suspect a lot of his minutes are going to be with one starter. You will see groups like

Arci / Coby / Otto / Thad / Kornett

to close the second quarter and Coby will be free to do whatever he wants.

Its rare that I have seen a rookie this good that I really don't want to start.

Well said!

Off topic, but I still think we should try Arci, Coby, Thad, Kornet, Gafford.

[RSP83]

I'm glad we end up with Coby at #7. I think we have one of the best player in this draft in Coby. I'm totally happy with him. But, the guy outside of Zion who I'm really intrigued with is Morant. Have you guys seen some of his pre-season highlight? I think he's going to be a superstar in this league. Reminds me of Iverson a bit.