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NBA Trade Thread

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Re: NBA Trade Thread 

Post#1641 » by sco » Fri Jul 17, 2020 1:35 pm

MikeDC wrote:
sco wrote:
MikeDC wrote:So as I look to build the team for next year, what I see is 6 guys in our rotation, and I want to add two draft picks and because we're currently a trash team, we're going to pencil them in to the rotation at whatever their position is. That gives us an 8 man rotation already.
1- White
2- LaVine
3- Porter, Sato
4/5- Carter, Young
+ Our own draft pick
+ Draft pick from trading Lauri

Current contracts are basically sunk costs. It costs the Bulls nothing to simply keep Arci and let Shaq guy. It costs an extra $1.5M or so to cut Arci and keep Shaq. Not in terms of cap space, but in terms of money no longer in Reindorf's pocket.

The main value, IMO, of cutting a guy or two will be roster spots. Right now, IIRC, they have 12 guys under contract next season. If they keep both their 1st and 2nd round picks (which I hope they find a way to get their 2nd rounder stashed), they only have 1 roster spot to add a FA. They have the ~$10M MLE and ~3M Biannual exemption to use on FA's (plus vet mins).


I'm not a fan of penny pinching or the Reinsdorfs, but this is not even something I would do if I were them.

1. There's that whole issue of "9 figure losses" to provide context. Within that framework, the Bulls ain't going to eat $8M to create a roster spot. They're just gonna go with the guy they've already paid.

2. The MLE gets you an MLE level player. Another Sato or Young. Is there playing time for that guy? Nope. Does it improve our results tangibly? Nope.

It's just not a value proposition. When you figure that the Bulls already have an 8 man rotation (a "core"... although not a very good one), I don't think there's a value to adding another player. It'd be smarter to keep the powder dry and spend on something else. For example, buy a pick or two from one of the many teams that are going to lose even more money and be more desperate than the Bulls.

I think there we could definitely use a MLE level player (i.e. another Young or Sato) to provide injury (and mid-season trade) depth and more vet presence to help stabilize young line-ups. IMO, FA is where you fill "need holes" (not in the lottery - which should be 100% BPA). We have a depth hole at SF that would be a big help to fill. Also we could use a back-up SG who can score or a PF to give us depth (and mid-season Lauri trade insurance) to give us depth in case we decide to trade Lauri at the deadline.
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Re: NBA Trade Thread 

Post#1642 » by MikeDC » Fri Jul 17, 2020 1:41 pm

sco wrote:
MikeDC wrote:
sco wrote:The main value, IMO, of cutting a guy or two will be roster spots. Right now, IIRC, they have 12 guys under contract next season. If they keep both their 1st and 2nd round picks (which I hope they find a way to get their 2nd rounder stashed), they only have 1 roster spot to add a FA. They have the ~$10M MLE and ~3M Biannual exemption to use on FA's (plus vet mins).


I'm not a fan of penny pinching or the Reinsdorfs, but this is not even something I would do if I were them.

1. There's that whole issue of "9 figure losses" to provide context. Within that framework, the Bulls ain't going to eat $8M to create a roster spot. They're just gonna go with the guy they've already paid.

2. The MLE gets you an MLE level player. Another Sato or Young. Is there playing time for that guy? Nope. Does it improve our results tangibly? Nope.

It's just not a value proposition. When you figure that the Bulls already have an 8 man rotation (a "core"... although not a very good one), I don't think there's a value to adding another player. It'd be smarter to keep the powder dry and spend on something else. For example, buy a pick or two from one of the many teams that are going to lose even more money and be more desperate than the Bulls.

I think there we could definitely use a MLE level player (i.e. another Young or Sato) to provide injury (and mid-season trade) depth and more vet presence to help stabilize young line-ups. IMO, FA is where you fill "need holes" (not in the lottery - which should be 100% BPA). We have a depth hole at SF that would be a big help to fill. Also we could use a back-up SG who can score or a PF to give us depth (and mid-season Lauri trade insurance) to give us depth in case we decide to trade Lauri at the deadline.



Sure, all of those things would be nice to have. But what I'm saying is put it in the context of a team losing massive amounts of money, and spending a bunch on a 9th man who's not going to be much different that the two similarly priced guys you already consider disappointments?
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Re: NBA Trade Thread 

Post#1643 » by sco » Fri Jul 17, 2020 2:19 pm

MikeDC wrote:
sco wrote:
MikeDC wrote:
I'm not a fan of penny pinching or the Reinsdorfs, but this is not even something I would do if I were them.

1. There's that whole issue of "9 figure losses" to provide context. Within that framework, the Bulls ain't going to eat $8M to create a roster spot. They're just gonna go with the guy they've already paid.

2. The MLE gets you an MLE level player. Another Sato or Young. Is there playing time for that guy? Nope. Does it improve our results tangibly? Nope.

It's just not a value proposition. When you figure that the Bulls already have an 8 man rotation (a "core"... although not a very good one), I don't think there's a value to adding another player. It'd be smarter to keep the powder dry and spend on something else. For example, buy a pick or two from one of the many teams that are going to lose even more money and be more desperate than the Bulls.

I think there we could definitely use a MLE level player (i.e. another Young or Sato) to provide injury (and mid-season trade) depth and more vet presence to help stabilize young line-ups. IMO, FA is where you fill "need holes" (not in the lottery - which should be 100% BPA). We have a depth hole at SF that would be a big help to fill. Also we could use a back-up SG who can score or a PF to give us depth (and mid-season Lauri trade insurance) to give us depth in case we decide to trade Lauri at the deadline.



Sure, all of those things would be nice to have. But what I'm saying is put it in the context of a team losing massive amounts of money, and spending a bunch on a 9th man who's not going to be much different that the two similarly priced guys you already consider disappointments?

I think the goal for next season will be a more realistic play-off appearance, and "competent depth" will make a big difference.
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Re: NBA Trade Thread 

Post#1644 » by MikeDC » Fri Jul 17, 2020 3:39 pm

sco wrote:
MikeDC wrote:
sco wrote:I think there we could definitely use a MLE level player (i.e. another Young or Sato) to provide injury (and mid-season trade) depth and more vet presence to help stabilize young line-ups. IMO, FA is where you fill "need holes" (not in the lottery - which should be 100% BPA). We have a depth hole at SF that would be a big help to fill. Also we could use a back-up SG who can score or a PF to give us depth (and mid-season Lauri trade insurance) to give us depth in case we decide to trade Lauri at the deadline.



Sure, all of those things would be nice to have. But what I'm saying is put it in the context of a team losing massive amounts of money, and spending a bunch on a 9th man who's not going to be much different that the two similarly priced guys you already consider disappointments?

I think the goal for next season will be a more realistic play-off appearance, and "competent depth" will make a big difference.



As a thought experiment, suppose the Bulls had an "extra MLE" to hand out last summer. They've already added Sato and Young.

What additional player do you think they could have added at that price to be "competent depth" and make a playoff appearance realistic?
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Re: NBA Trade Thread 

Post#1645 » by MrSparkle » Fri Jul 17, 2020 4:03 pm

I don’t think the Bulls make any mid-level FA acquisitions this summer unless they wheel and deal at least one blockbuster trade on draft night. I agree the roster is log-jammed, imbalanced. Signing anybody except a SF (which you won’t a competent one for under $10m) is just crowding the rotation.

I wonder if AK strongly considers trading Zach. He’s a bargain at $19.5m... until you consider he’ll want a big extension next year. Expires in ‘22, and pro sports are in limbo for 2 years.
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Re: NBA Trade Thread 

Post#1646 » by sco » Fri Jul 17, 2020 4:21 pm

MikeDC wrote:
sco wrote:
MikeDC wrote:

Sure, all of those things would be nice to have. But what I'm saying is put it in the context of a team losing massive amounts of money, and spending a bunch on a 9th man who's not going to be much different that the two similarly priced guys you already consider disappointments?

I think the goal for next season will be a more realistic play-off appearance, and "competent depth" will make a big difference.



As a thought experiment, suppose the Bulls had an "extra MLE" to hand out last summer. They've already added Sato and Young.

What additional player do you think they could have added at that price to be "competent depth" and make a playoff appearance realistic?

Derrick Jones Jr., Danilo Gallinari, Jerami Grant, Harry Giles, Dario Saric are a few that come to mind that could make a big difference.
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Re: NBA Trade Thread 

Post#1647 » by MikeDC » Fri Jul 17, 2020 4:36 pm

sco wrote:
MikeDC wrote:
sco wrote:I think the goal for next season will be a more realistic play-off appearance, and "competent depth" will make a big difference.



As a thought experiment, suppose the Bulls had an "extra MLE" to hand out last summer. They've already added Sato and Young.

What additional player do you think they could have added at that price to be "competent depth" and make a playoff appearance realistic?

Derrick Jones Jr., Danilo Gallinari, Jerami Grant, Harry Giles, Dario Saric are a few that come to mind that could make a big difference.


were any of those guys actually FAs last year?
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Re: NBA Trade Thread 

Post#1648 » by sco » Fri Jul 17, 2020 4:56 pm

MikeDC wrote:
sco wrote:
MikeDC wrote:

As a thought experiment, suppose the Bulls had an "extra MLE" to hand out last summer. They've already added Sato and Young.

What additional player do you think they could have added at that price to be "competent depth" and make a playoff appearance realistic?

Derrick Jones Jr., Danilo Gallinari, Jerami Grant, Harry Giles, Dario Saric are a few that come to mind that could make a big difference.


were any of those guys actually FAs last year?

all this coming year FA's
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Re: NBA Trade Thread 

Post#1649 » by MikeDC » Fri Jul 17, 2020 6:58 pm

sco wrote:
MikeDC wrote:
sco wrote:Derrick Jones Jr., Danilo Gallinari, Jerami Grant, Harry Giles, Dario Saric are a few that come to mind that could make a big difference.


were any of those guys actually FAs last year?

all this coming year FA's


Right, so none of them addresses the question I offered.

Even so, I'd even spot you those guys and say adding any one of them to this year's team wouldn't have put us in the playoffs.

Maybe Gallinari, but he's a 32 year old vet who made $21M this year. You aren't getting him on the Bulls for half that, and even then, he's mostly playing the 4 now.
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Re: NBA Trade Thread 

Post#1650 » by drosestruts » Fri Jul 17, 2020 7:29 pm

Our roster is pretty much set barring any trades with 12 players under contract next year, 2 draft picks, 4 RFA, and little to no cap room. I like Lauri but was curious what others thought of the value of a trade like this:

Bulls in: MIN 2021 first-round pick (owned by GSW, top 3 protected in 2021, unprotected in 2022)

Warriors in: Lauri Markkanen and Tomas Satoransky


Warriors use the Igoudala TPE to make this trade happen. Gives them an athletic stretch big, and a backup capable of playing the 1-3. Bulls clear$15M in cap space, 2 roster spots, and gain a future 1st round pick.
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Re: NBA Trade Thread 

Post#1651 » by sco » Fri Jul 17, 2020 8:26 pm

drosestruts wrote:Our roster is pretty much set barring any trades with 12 players under contract next year, 2 draft picks, 4 RFA, and little to no cap room. I like Lauri but was curious what others thought of the value of a trade like this:

Bulls in: MIN 2021 first-round pick (owned by GSW, top 3 protected in 2021, unprotected in 2022)

Warriors in: Lauri Markkanen and Tomas Satoransky


Warriors use the Igoudala TPE to make this trade happen. Gives them an athletic stretch big, and a backup capable of playing the 1-3. Bulls clear$15M in cap space, 2 roster spots, and gain a future 1st round pick.

I might do that. The Minny pick projects to be a late lotto.
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Re: NBA Trade Thread 

Post#1652 » by PaKii94 » Fri Jul 17, 2020 8:28 pm

MrSparkle wrote:I don’t think the Bulls make any mid-level FA acquisitions this summer unless they wheel and deal at least one blockbuster trade on draft night. I agree the roster is log-jammed, imbalanced. Signing anybody except a SF (which you won’t a competent one for under $10m) is just crowding the rotation.

I wonder if AK strongly considers trading Zach. He’s a bargain at $19.5m... until you consider he’ll want a big extension next year. Expires in ‘22, and pro sports are in limbo for 2 years.


I think thad needs to go. He hurt the team more than his "veteran-ness" helped. He can be used for trade purposes. The team desperately needs a vet primary ball handler/floor general to take it out of Lavine's hands.
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Re: NBA Trade Thread 

Post#1653 » by sco » Fri Jul 17, 2020 8:35 pm

PaKii94 wrote:
MrSparkle wrote:I don’t think the Bulls make any mid-level FA acquisitions this summer unless they wheel and deal at least one blockbuster trade on draft night. I agree the roster is log-jammed, imbalanced. Signing anybody except a SF (which you won’t a competent one for under $10m) is just crowding the rotation.

I wonder if AK strongly considers trading Zach. He’s a bargain at $19.5m... until you consider he’ll want a big extension next year. Expires in ‘22, and pro sports are in limbo for 2 years.


I think thad needs to go. He hurt the team more than his "veteran-ness" helped. He can be used for trade purposes. The team desperately needs a vet primary ball handler/floor general to take it out of Lavine's hands.

If we trade Thad, we'll need another PF. Thad was about as good as Lauri was, IMO - which isn't saying much. We could probably bring back Portis on the cheap...The guy I want is Saric.
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Re: NBA Trade Thread 

Post#1654 » by PaKii94 » Fri Jul 17, 2020 9:46 pm

sco wrote:
PaKii94 wrote:
MrSparkle wrote:I don’t think the Bulls make any mid-level FA acquisitions this summer unless they wheel and deal at least one blockbuster trade on draft night. I agree the roster is log-jammed, imbalanced. Signing anybody except a SF (which you won’t a competent one for under $10m) is just crowding the rotation.

I wonder if AK strongly considers trading Zach. He’s a bargain at $19.5m... until you consider he’ll want a big extension next year. Expires in ‘22, and pro sports are in limbo for 2 years.


I think thad needs to go. He hurt the team more than his "veteran-ness" helped. He can be used for trade purposes. The team desperately needs a vet primary ball handler/floor general to take it out of Lavine's hands.

If we trade Thad, we'll need another PF. Thad was about as good as Lauri was, IMO - which isn't saying much. We could probably bring back Portis on the cheap...The guy I want is Saric.


I'd rather upgrade/sidegrade to a 4/5 so Lauri doesn't have to play 5.

As far as "as good as Lauri was", this was Lauri at his worst and he was still better than Thad. I've been rewatching the games and for the most part he's been a negative instead of a positive during gameplay.

He was brought in to do the little things but instead I see forced shots and missed defensive covers. Some of that is he's on the wrong end of 30. Tweeners usually rely on athleticism and that's waning for him.

Technically to cover the 4 we have Otto and hutch as small ball 4s, wcj wanting to play some 4, gafford looking for minutes at 5.

I wish we could get the Pau we had during the Jimmy era, now. He would have been great for Lauri + wcj. Instead we have thad
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Re: NBA Trade Thread 

Post#1655 » by sco » Fri Jul 17, 2020 9:49 pm

PaKii94 wrote:
sco wrote:
PaKii94 wrote:
I think thad needs to go. He hurt the team more than his "veteran-ness" helped. He can be used for trade purposes. The team desperately needs a vet primary ball handler/floor general to take it out of Lavine's hands.

If we trade Thad, we'll need another PF. Thad was about as good as Lauri was, IMO - which isn't saying much. We could probably bring back Portis on the cheap...The guy I want is Saric.


I'd rather upgrade/sidegrade to a 4/5 so Lauri doesn't have to play 5.

As far as "as good as Lauri was", this was Lauri at his worst and he was still better than Thad. I've been rewatching the games and for the most part he's been a negative instead of a positive during gameplay.

He was brought in to do the little things but instead I see forced shots and missed defensive covers. Some of that is he's on the wrong end of 30. Tweeners usually rely on athleticism and that's waning for him.

Technically to cover the 4 we have Otto and hutch as small ball 4s, wcj wanting to play some 4, gafford looking for minutes at 5.

I wish we could get the Pau we had during the Jimmy era, now. He would have been great for Lauri + wcj. Instead we have thad

Lauri should never play the 5, he is a better 3 than a 5. Would rather give the minutes to Felicio, which is saying a lot.
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Re: NBA Trade Thread 

Post#1656 » by PaKii94 » Fri Jul 17, 2020 9:52 pm

sco wrote:
PaKii94 wrote:
sco wrote:If we trade Thad, we'll need another PF. Thad was about as good as Lauri was, IMO - which isn't saying much. We could probably bring back Portis on the cheap...The guy I want is Saric.


I'd rather upgrade/sidegrade to a 4/5 so Lauri doesn't have to play 5.

As far as "as good as Lauri was", this was Lauri at his worst and he was still better than Thad. I've been rewatching the games and for the most part he's been a negative instead of a positive during gameplay.

He was brought in to do the little things but instead I see forced shots and missed defensive covers. Some of that is he's on the wrong end of 30. Tweeners usually rely on athleticism and that's waning for him.

Technically to cover the 4 we have Otto and hutch as small ball 4s, wcj wanting to play some 4, gafford looking for minutes at 5.

I wish we could get the Pau we had during the Jimmy era, now. He would have been great for Lauri + wcj. Instead we have thad

Lauri should never play the 5, he is a better 3 than a 5. Would rather give the minutes to Felicio, which is saying a lot.


You're preaching to the choir man, I've been saying that from the beginning. That also brings up another key point against Thad. We need to see Lauri play big minutes. To do that and also give Thad minutes, Lauri is forced to play 5
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Re: NBA Trade Thread 

Post#1657 » by MrSparkle » Fri Jul 17, 2020 10:02 pm

The mistake with Thad he's ultimately a 1-position guy. He's too small for C, too slow/un-skilled for SF. He is basically the only 30yo on the team. I said it from the beginning, but the move didn't make sense to me even though I liked Thad as a Pacer. I feel Boylen should've started him over Lauri back in October, and let him lose the job. But then, the question begs - why spend the most money on a duplicate position of literally your most prized asset on the team? If Lauri gets injured (like he did), you live and die with that.

I just can't believe the "traditional" PF glut this team has had since 2014. Hell, it goes back to 2008. Literally the least valuable, "dead" position of the NBA: 1-position PF.

So yeah. I'd trade him. But for what? Lol, no playoff contender is giving up anything but junk for a $15m Thad salary.
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Re: NBA Trade Thread 

Post#1658 » by PaKii94 » Fri Jul 17, 2020 10:11 pm

MrSparkle wrote:The mistake with Thad he's ultimately a 1-position guy. He's too small for C, too slow/un-skilled for SF. He is basically the only 30yo on the team. I said it from the beginning, but the move didn't make sense to me even though I liked Thad as a Pacer. I feel Boylen should've started him over Lauri back in October, and let him lose the job. But then, the question begs - why spend the most money on a duplicate position of literally your most prized asset on the team? If Lauri gets injured (like he did), you live and die with that.

I just can't believe the "traditional" PF glut this team has had since 2014. Hell, it goes back to 2008. Literally the least valuable, "dead" position of the NBA: 1-position PF.

So yeah. I'd trade him. But for what? Lol, no playoff contender is giving up anything but junk for a $15m Thad salary.


I think we can look for a similar caliber player but at a different place of need. Thad is only partially guaranteed the year after next.

I'm still annoyed they missed out on rubio
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Re: NBA Trade Thread 

Post#1659 » by wonderboy2 » Mon Jul 20, 2020 5:06 am

For those saying Thad was a bad signing I disagree. He actually played well when he played. One of the only players that played with toughness and heart most of the time. Way better signing than Sato.
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Re: NBA Trade Thread 

Post#1660 » by wonderboy2 » Mon Jul 20, 2020 5:08 am

I wonder if we can trade Sato for a back up wing. It would be a shame if the bulls let go of Dunn and kept Sato bum ass.

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