Image ImageImage Image

OT Bears 2019/20 season and beyond

Moderators: HomoSapien, Payt10, RedBulls23, coldfish, AshyLarrysDiaper, fleet, kulaz3000, Michael Jackson, Ice Man, dougthonus, Tommy Udo 6 , DASMACKDOWN, GimmeDat

fleet
Senior Mod - Bulls
Senior Mod - Bulls
Posts: 64,444
And1: 32,201
Joined: Dec 23, 2002
 

Re: OT Bears 2019/20 season and beyond 

Post#1861 » by fleet » Mon Sep 7, 2020 12:46 am

Jcool0 wrote:
nomorezorro wrote:i didn't follow training camp reports super super close but i did not really get the sense that trubisky looked impressive. it was just, "neither qb is standing out," right?


Read on Twitter


But also this

Read on Twitter

Team should likely be looking for newer better ways out of this, but when you botch the QB position, you are kind of stuck with your decisions. So It's not that they can't fix this, but they broke it in the first place, that would be why you fire them.
Brad Biggs wrote:Fields was in the bottom third of the league in too many key statistical metrics for the Bears to commit to the idea of trading down from the first pick for a bundle of future assets and then building around him.
dice
RealGM
Posts: 42,897
And1: 12,494
Joined: Jun 30, 2003
Location: chicago

Re: OT Bears 2019/20 season and beyond 

Post#1862 » by dice » Mon Sep 7, 2020 1:41 am

Chicago-Bull-E wrote:Fun discussions from a few months ago on the Foles Stans saying what they paid for Foles guarantees Foles will be the starter.

drosestruts wrote:I have no skin in the debate but Dice is right and Bull-e is wrong. Both of you are really digging in here when it's clear no one is even slightly interested in changing their stance.


Image

Mbrahv0528 wrote:
drosestruts wrote:I have no skin in the debate but Dice is right and Bull-e is wrong. Both of you are really digging in here when it's clear no one is even slightly interested in changing their stance.


I concur, Dice is most definitely on the right side of that specific debate. Paying Foles that kind of scratch to be the backup simply doesn't add up in reality.

Sent from my SM-N975U using RealGM mobile app


Image


dice wrote:
nagy inherited trubisky. nagy CHOSE foles. it's foles's job to lose


Image


dice wrote:you get to gloat if trubisky is the starter in week one.


Image



There is so much more, but I’ve spent too much time. Have a good one talking heads!!!

i see that you completely ignored how my stance (and the entire debate) changed when the details of foles's contract became public. using the quotes you provided:

"Paying Foles that kind of scratch to be the backup simply doesn't add up in reality." well guess what? it turned out he wasn't being paid more than a high-priced backup!

"it's foles's job to lose." did you stop and think that maybe...foles indeed did lose his opportunity in training camp by not playing well?

additionally, if you've noticed, since those conversations we've had a little pandemic thing going on. as such, foles did not even get the benefit of preseason games to meaningfully prepare himself for game conditions with his new team

here was my last post on the topic:

dice wrote:...as more information came out on foles's contract restructuring, the more plausible it became that this is a genuine competition. both guys are being paid as top level backups

the thing that still makes me think that foles will be the starter at some point, and probably sooner rather than later, is that if trubisky is BARELY outplaying foles and remains the starter for the entire season, it creates a very awkward situation NEXT offseason. i'm sure the bears would love for trubisky to flip a switch and really improve this season, with the team maybe winning a playoff game in the process. then they can feel at least somewhat comfortable giving him a new contract. but that's probably the most unlikely scenario


so nice try. you've "won" nothing. you wasted a whoooooole lotta time digging for quotes and gifs just to create a post that makes you look incredibly childish
the donald, always unpopular, did worse in EVERY state in 2020. and by a greater margin in red states! 50 independently-run elections, none of them rigged
User avatar
Chicago-Bull-E
RealGM
Posts: 15,894
And1: 7,203
Joined: Jun 27, 2008

Re: OT Bears 2019/20 season and beyond 

Post#1863 » by Chicago-Bull-E » Mon Sep 7, 2020 2:06 am

dice wrote:there is no way that they made that level of a commitment to foles in the hopes that he would push trubisky but fail to outperform him. even if there was no salary cap that would be dubious strategy



Image


dice wrote:bottom line: it makes ZERO sense for any coach or GM to guarantee a job to someone who isn't head-and-shoulders above the competition. 'cause it saps them of motivation. that doesn't mean they don't have a clear idea of who they want to start when the regular season rolls around. watch again and try to process what is being said:



nagy inherited trubisky. nagy CHOSE foles. it's foles's job to lose


Oh gosh, such arrogance in this post. I watched it again like you said...

Image


Ok I’m done, I promise. It’s just so much fun. Last one, I’m out. Promise. Pinky swear.
KC: Do you still think you're a championship-caliber team?
Gar: I never said that and correct me if I'm wrong
dice
RealGM
Posts: 42,897
And1: 12,494
Joined: Jun 30, 2003
Location: chicago

Re: OT Bears 2019/20 season and beyond 

Post#1864 » by dice » Mon Sep 7, 2020 2:07 am

Chicago-Bull-E wrote:
dice wrote:there is no way that they made that level of a commitment to foles in the hopes that he would push trubisky but fail to outperform him. even if there was no salary cap that would be dubious strategy



Image


dice wrote:bottom line: it makes ZERO sense for any coach or GM to guarantee a job to someone who isn't head-and-shoulders above the competition. 'cause it saps them of motivation. that doesn't mean they don't have a clear idea of who they want to start when the regular season rolls around. watch again and try to process what is being said:



nagy inherited trubisky. nagy CHOSE foles. it's foles's job to lose


Oh gosh, such arrogance in this post. I watched it again like you said...

Image


Ok I’m done, I promise. It’s just so much fun. Last one, I’m out. Promise. Pinky swear.

you really, really should've read my response to your last clown post before posting another one. ouch

care to triple down on your foolishness?

i wouldn't mind the blatant trolling so much if it was actually justified
the donald, always unpopular, did worse in EVERY state in 2020. and by a greater margin in red states! 50 independently-run elections, none of them rigged
Jeffster81
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,958
And1: 1,727
Joined: May 24, 2007
Location: Bazinga
       

Re: OT Bears 2019/20 season and beyond 

Post#1865 » by Jeffster81 » Mon Sep 7, 2020 3:03 am

It's easier to bench Trubisky and go with Foles if Trubisky sucks, which he will. But what happens if Foles sucks? The Bears are truly in terrible shape at QB. Which means they are FORCED to draft a QB next year in the 1st or 2nd rd. What now Trey Lance and Justin Fields are my two favorite draft prospects at QB.

With that said, Trubisky will get pulled, there is no question about it. Good news is, this will be Trubisky last year in Chicago and last year in which he is considered a "starting" QB. Once he leaves Chicago, he can embrace his destiny as the new Mark Sanchez, journeyman QB.
fleet
Senior Mod - Bulls
Senior Mod - Bulls
Posts: 64,444
And1: 32,201
Joined: Dec 23, 2002
 

Re: OT Bears 2019/20 season and beyond 

Post#1866 » by fleet » Mon Sep 7, 2020 3:11 am

Image

Spoiler:
Image
Brad Biggs wrote:Fields was in the bottom third of the league in too many key statistical metrics for the Bears to commit to the idea of trading down from the first pick for a bundle of future assets and then building around him.
fleet
Senior Mod - Bulls
Senior Mod - Bulls
Posts: 64,444
And1: 32,201
Joined: Dec 23, 2002
 

Re: OT Bears 2019/20 season and beyond 

Post#1867 » by fleet » Mon Sep 7, 2020 3:23 am

Jeffster81 wrote:It's easier to bench Trubisky and go with Foles if Trubisky sucks, which he will. But what happens if Foles sucks? The Bears are truly in terrible shape at QB. Which means they are FORCED to draft a QB next year in the 1st or 2nd rd. What now Trey Lance and Justin Fields are my two favorite draft prospects at QB.

With that said, Trubisky will get pulled, there is no question about it. Good news is, this will be Trubisky last year in Chicago and last year in which he is considered a "starting" QB. Once he leaves Chicago, he can embrace his destiny as the new Mark Sanchez, journeyman QB.

They have still established nothing in the backfield. You have to wonder if they are considering that Trubisky will need to be back there to run the ball. Basically dysfunction feeding on itself.
Brad Biggs wrote:Fields was in the bottom third of the league in too many key statistical metrics for the Bears to commit to the idea of trading down from the first pick for a bundle of future assets and then building around him.
User avatar
Susan
RealGM
Posts: 21,187
And1: 7,429
Joined: Jan 25, 2005
Location: jackfinn & Scott May appreciation society
     

Re: OT Bears 2019/20 season and beyond 

Post#1868 » by Susan » Mon Sep 7, 2020 2:02 pm

fleet wrote:
Jeffster81 wrote:It's easier to bench Trubisky and go with Foles if Trubisky sucks, which he will. But what happens if Foles sucks? The Bears are truly in terrible shape at QB. Which means they are FORCED to draft a QB next year in the 1st or 2nd rd. What now Trey Lance and Justin Fields are my two favorite draft prospects at QB.

With that said, Trubisky will get pulled, there is no question about it. Good news is, this will be Trubisky last year in Chicago and last year in which he is considered a "starting" QB. Once he leaves Chicago, he can embrace his destiny as the new Mark Sanchez, journeyman QB.

They have still established nothing in the backfield. You have to wonder if they are considering that Trubisky will need to be back there to run the ball. Basically dysfunction feeding on itself.


Kinda hard to establish anything when there's been zero regular season games and zero preseason games played.
Chi town
RealGM
Posts: 24,811
And1: 6,948
Joined: Aug 10, 2004

Re: OT Bears 2019/20 season and beyond 

Post#1869 » by Chi town » Mon Sep 7, 2020 5:35 pm

Jeffster81 wrote:It's easier to bench Trubisky and go with Foles if Trubisky sucks, which he will. But what happens if Foles sucks? The Bears are truly in terrible shape at QB. Which means they are FORCED to draft a QB next year in the 1st or 2nd rd. What now Trey Lance and Justin Fields are my two favorite draft prospects at QB.

With that said, Trubisky will get pulled, there is no question about it. Good news is, this will be Trubisky last year in Chicago and last year in which he is considered a "starting" QB. Once he leaves Chicago, he can embrace his destiny as the new Mark Sanchez, journeyman QB.


2018 Mitch would have made us a playoff team last year. I'd say 75% of the offensive woes were on Mitch. The other 25 was no run game and worst TE rotation in the league. Running and TE's make an offense WAY EASIER to operate. This will help Mitch tremendously. I still think he sucks and isn't the guy. I do know he's fragile and mentally weak and if he starts well he gets confidence and performs alot better.

I don't think Foles will suck. He will game manage and keep the sticks moving and let the Bears defense wins games. Mitch if he sucks like last year will stall out and turn the ball over. Big difference.

I don't understand what people complaining about Foles wanted Pace to do? Sign Cam? Watch him get hurt?

I know Foles will be solid and lead us to wins behind our D. I'm just concerned he will get hurt.

I think Mitch gets yanked in the first 3 games. Foles comes in and gets us rolling then goes down at the end of the season and Mitch plays "meh" and we lose in the wild card. We draft a QB and Foles starts next year to hurt again and the rookie comes in...
The same old Bears QB cycle.
transplant
RealGM
Posts: 11,731
And1: 3,407
Joined: Aug 16, 2001
Location: state of perpetual confusion
       

Re: OT Bears 2019/20 season and beyond 

Post#1870 » by transplant » Mon Sep 7, 2020 9:15 pm

As I've always said, optimism costs me nothing.

Trubisky was injured last year and required corrective surgery. He played through it. Maybe he shouldn't have.

A lot of folks wanted Foles because he knows the offense and can make all the reads. Chase Daniel knew the offense and reads as well as Nagy does, but couldn't play dead.

Go get 'em, Mitch.
Until the actual truth is more important to you than what you believe, you will never recognize the truth.

- Blatantly stolen from truebluefan
User avatar
Kurt Heimlich
Head Coach
Posts: 6,542
And1: 5,289
Joined: Jun 26, 2001

Re: OT Bears 2019/20 season and beyond 

Post#1871 » by Kurt Heimlich » Mon Sep 7, 2020 10:13 pm

Jeffster81 wrote:It's easier to bench Trubisky and go with Foles if Trubisky sucks, which he will. But what happens if Foles sucks? The Bears are truly in terrible shape at QB. Which means they are FORCED to draft a QB next year in the 1st or 2nd rd. What now Trey Lance and Justin Fields are my two favorite draft prospects at QB.

With that said, Trubisky will get pulled, there is no question about it. Good news is, this will be Trubisky last year in Chicago and last year in which he is considered a "starting" QB. Once he leaves Chicago, he can embrace his destiny as the new Mark Sanchez, journeyman QB.


I'm agreeing with you here. Trubisky was always the favorite after the Foles addition. IMO one of the reason Pace went for (and paid a silly premium for) Foles was BECAUSE Foles is the "off the bench" specialist/insurance policy guy. Pace knows he's toast if (when) Trubisky fails. So it's still Trubisky or bust.

But not doing anything to reinforce one of the shakiest QB spots in the league is also criminal negligence when it comes to GM'ing. And would further cripple any hopes he has of finding work moving forward.

Ultimately if there's one positive out of this. And you referenced it with the QB classes coming next. It's that Pace will be canned and somebody else (hopefully competent) will draft our next QB. Allowing Pace to pick the next QB is just such an impossibility after such a truly epic failure of the Trubisky pick.
User avatar
dougthonus
Senior Mod - Bulls
Senior Mod - Bulls
Posts: 55,475
And1: 15,620
Joined: Dec 22, 2004
Contact:
 

Re: OT Bears 2019/20 season and beyond 

Post#1872 » by dougthonus » Mon Sep 7, 2020 11:01 pm

Chicago-Bull-E wrote:Fun discussions from a few months ago on the Foles Stans saying what they paid for Foles guarantees Foles will be the starter.


Man was this trade a huge mistake if he's not the starter. Could have gotten a backup for way less and not given up a pick.
http://linktr.ee/bullsbeat - links to the bullsbeat podcast
@doug_thonus on twitter
Jeffster81
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,958
And1: 1,727
Joined: May 24, 2007
Location: Bazinga
       

Re: OT Bears 2019/20 season and beyond 

Post#1873 » by Jeffster81 » Mon Sep 7, 2020 11:47 pm

Looking at his stats, I think the main reason why Trubisky is getting W1 start is because some of his best games have come against the Lions.
patryk7754
Head Coach
Posts: 7,479
And1: 1,093
Joined: Jan 22, 2012

Re: OT Bears 2019/20 season and beyond 

Post#1874 » by patryk7754 » Tue Sep 8, 2020 12:15 am

fleet wrote:
Jcool0 wrote:
nomorezorro wrote:i didn't follow training camp reports super super close but i did not really get the sense that trubisky looked impressive. it was just, "neither qb is standing out," right?


Read on Twitter


But also this

Read on Twitter

Team should likely be looking for newer better ways out of this, but when you botch the QB position, you are kind of stuck with your decisions. So It's not that they can't fix this, but they broke it in the first place, that would be why you fire them.

That second tweet kinda annoys me. Didn't the bears only give up a compensatory 4th? At worse, Foles will be the best 2 or 3 backups in the NFL at 5mil. That's not bad regardless of your QB situation so the second guy is kinda dumb.

Assuming Mitch didn't outright beat Foles, one of the motivating factors of starting Mitch is to use the first couple of games as a preseason to see if Mitch truly has improved or not.
patryk7754
Head Coach
Posts: 7,479
And1: 1,093
Joined: Jan 22, 2012

Re: OT Bears 2019/20 season and beyond 

Post#1875 » by patryk7754 » Tue Sep 8, 2020 12:25 am

transplant wrote:As I've always said, optimism costs me nothing.

Trubisky was injured last year and required corrective surgery. He played through it. Maybe he shouldn't have.

A lot of folks wanted Foles because he knows the offense and can make all the reads. Chase Daniel knew the offense and reads as well as Nagy does, but couldn't play dead.

Go get 'em, Mitch.

Im optimistic too. And I've been a huge critic of Trubisky's. His first three seasons he didn't really show any improvement in his weakness, Mainly accuracy. But Although I think he lacks the desired NFL skilled in the most important areas, I always said the biggest reason he failed was because of Nagy's refusal to have a game plan that would work best for him. Nagy eventually stopped being stubborn and watered down the gameplan and Mitch started playing better. It was a little too late but hopefully, Nagy carries that mentality into this season.

With that being said, Mitch better had improved enough to were Nagy can use an expanded gameplan with him because defenses will wise up to the offense fast and if Nagy can't have success with a watered-down offense, He'll go with someone who can utilize the whole gameplan.
User avatar
nomorezorro
RealGM
Posts: 12,121
And1: 8,852
Joined: Jun 22, 2006
Location: appropriately compensated

Re: OT Bears 2019/20 season and beyond 

Post#1876 » by nomorezorro » Tue Sep 8, 2020 12:33 am

patryk7754 wrote:That second tweet kinda annoys me. Didn't the bears only give up a compensatory 4th? At worse, Foles will be the best 2 or 3 backups in the NFL at 5mil. That's not bad regardless of your QB situation so the second guy is kinda dumb.


a fourth and $21 million guaranteed is absolutely bad for a backup QB who couldn't beat out mitch trubisky, especially when you could have taken a flier on cam newton for pennies and no pick
WookieOnRitalin wrote:Game 1. It's where the series is truly 0-0.
patryk7754
Head Coach
Posts: 7,479
And1: 1,093
Joined: Jan 22, 2012

Re: OT Bears 2019/20 season and beyond 

Post#1877 » by patryk7754 » Tue Sep 8, 2020 12:36 am

I think there's a lot of overreaction to the Foles trade now that Mitch has been named the starter. He's getting paid slightly more than a good back up would and he is one of the best backups in the league at worse. A 4th rounder isn't much to give up for a guy who can add stability both as a starter and backup. I think Trubisky is a practice player and probably did very well during these practices. With no preseason games this year the Bears will most likely use the first few games as a preseason to some extent. And not just for Trubisky. The first three games are definitely games that can be won by the defense and be enough of a challenge for Trubisky to officially earn or lose the job.
patryk7754
Head Coach
Posts: 7,479
And1: 1,093
Joined: Jan 22, 2012

Re: OT Bears 2019/20 season and beyond 

Post#1878 » by patryk7754 » Tue Sep 8, 2020 12:43 am

nomorezorro wrote:
patryk7754 wrote:That second tweet kinda annoys me. Didn't the bears only give up a compensatory 4th? At worse, Foles will be the best 2 or 3 backups in the NFL at 5mil. That's not bad regardless of your QB situation so the second guy is kinda dumb.


a fourth and $21 million guaranteed is absolutely bad for a backup QB who couldn't beat out mitch trubisky, especially when you could have taken a flier on cam newton for pennies and no pick


I agree that Cam should have been our only option and its a continuance of Pace poorly handling our QB situation but trading for Foles is a good strategy because he's shown he can have success and knows the offense. I think its less of him not beating out Mitch and more of them giving Mitch one last shot. I think Foles will be starting by the Colts game. If not, that means Mitch is playing well and that would be the most desirable thing we should want.

His contract isn't horrible because it doesn't prevent the team from making moves. We have a stacked defense and about 10mil in cap, I believe. We need upgrades at RB and OLine and we have the flexibility to do so if Pace and Nagy eventually feel they need to add someone
drosestruts
General Manager
Posts: 7,702
And1: 3,335
Joined: Apr 05, 2012
 

Re: OT Bears 2019/20 season and beyond 

Post#1879 » by drosestruts » Tue Sep 8, 2020 2:29 pm

Chicago-Bull-E wrote:Fun discussions from a few months ago on the Foles Stans saying what they paid for Foles guarantees Foles will be the starter.


When you're right you're right, enjoy the victory lap.

I will say, trading for Foles and restructuring his contract so it's on the books for the next three season then not starting him seems like a terrible use of resources.

We could have drafted a good player with that 4th round pick, and signed a good player with that money.

Makes me wonder if there's a disconnect between the front office and coach.


or, Trubisky just straight up looked better than Foles and it's something that neither the front office or coaching staff thought would happen but it happened enough and was clear enough that they had to start him.
User avatar
dougthonus
Senior Mod - Bulls
Senior Mod - Bulls
Posts: 55,475
And1: 15,620
Joined: Dec 22, 2004
Contact:
 

Re: OT Bears 2019/20 season and beyond 

Post#1880 » by dougthonus » Tue Sep 8, 2020 5:13 pm

patryk7754 wrote:I think there's a lot of overreaction to the Foles trade now that Mitch has been named the starter.


I don't think it is an overreaction. I think it is the same complaints being made at the time of the trade have even more validity today than they did when the trade was made.

- Not good enough to give up a pick for
- Too much guaranteed money
- Better options will be available for less on the FA market
- Limits our ability to improve the cast around whichever QB starts
http://linktr.ee/bullsbeat - links to the bullsbeat podcast
@doug_thonus on twitter

Return to Chicago Bulls