2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick #7 (probably)

[Andi Obst]

Wiggins + 2020 Top 3 Pick for Otto Porter Jr. + Tomáš Satoranský?

If the top 3 is missing the word "protected" - no thanks. That contract is an anchor.

Oh yeah, it’d be protected. The contract of Wiggins won’t look good, but I’d say he’d be more durable than Porter.

Yeah, but Wiggins playing more is not exactly a good thing. I would pass on that deal.

[sco]

If the top 3 is missing the word "protected" - no thanks. That contract is an anchor.

Oh yeah, it’d be protected. The contract of Wiggins won’t look good, but I’d say he’d be more durable than Porter.

Yeah, but Wiggins playing more is not exactly a good thing. I would pass on that deal.

I'd rather roll the dice on Porter. At least he only hurts the team when he's off the floor.

[MrSparkle]

Oh yeah, it’d be protected. The contract of Wiggins won’t look good, but I’d say he’d be more durable than Porter.

Yeah, but Wiggins playing more is not exactly a good thing. I would pass on that deal.

I'd rather roll the dice on Porter. At least he only hurts the team when he's off the floor.

All things considered, when Otto actually plays in healthy capacity, he is a fantastic player. Totally a tier-3 NBA wing IMO (as in, #1 Lebron/Durant/Kawhi/Luka/Giannis, #2 Tatum/George/Butler/Simmons, #3 Middleton/Ingram/Brown/Gallinari/DeRozan)... and by and far the best Bull. I don't think it's a surprise that Bulls looked most functional when Otto played (excluding opening week where he was apparently injured).

Wiggins produces numbers but I see him as a tier 4 (post-injury Hayward, Warren, Barnes, Oubre). I'm drawing the line from guys who can match-up Kawhi/Lebron (so excluding Booker, Harden, Lavine, Beal, etc.).

Anyway, unless a really nice asset comes in, I don't mind trialing Otto one more year and seeing whether his injuries are career debilitating or just a bad 1-2 year fluke. He's the type of player you'd rather keep as a roster compliment even if you target a big FA. In the NBA there is no such thing as 3D wing redundancy.

On the other hand, picking up Wiggins' salary is a huge cap burden in uncertain cap times. You are essentially locking yourself into lottery status. There is no way in hell Zach and Wiggins combine to lead a playoff team, especially if LaMelo is the party favor. Wiggins has a track record of tread-mill defense and inefficient offense. I totally see GSW boosting his value and elevating his game, and selling high. He might get motivated to achieve new heights in Silicon Valley, by playing with great spacers like Curry and Klay. But put him back in a position to be a top-2 option? The 2015 Chicago Timberwolves? Ew.

So to make that trade, I'd have to know that the 4-6 pick is a projected all-star. Totally reasonable trade if you love a player in the draft. I think GS says 'no' unless they get WCJ or Gafford back. Otto's injury uncertainty and expiring status are big red flags for the Warriors. I don't think Otto/Wiggins make a good trade concept.

Here's an alternate though:

LaVine, Sato, WCJ for Wiggins, FRP unprotected (1-3)

Bulls draft ideally Anthony Edwards. GS has a starting center. Move Klay to the SF position as he slows down from the ACL recovery. Insurance for the aging Curry.

[PaKii94]

Yeah, but Wiggins playing more is not exactly a good thing. I would pass on that deal.

I'd rather roll the dice on Porter. At least he only hurts the team when he's off the floor.

All things considered, when Otto actually plays in healthy capacity, he is a fantastic player. Totally a tier-3 NBA wing IMO (as in, #1 Lebron/Durant/Kawhi/Luka/Giannis, #2 Tatum/George/Butler/Simmons, #3 Middleton/Ingram/Brown/Gallinari/DeRozan)... and by and far the best Bull. I don't think it's a surprise that Bulls looked most functional when Otto played (excluding opening week where he was apparently injured).

Wiggins produces numbers but I see him as a tier 4 (post-injury Hayward, Warren, Barnes, Oubre). I'm drawing the line from guys who can match-up Kawhi/Lebron (so excluding Booker, Harden, Lavine, Beal, etc.).

Anyway, unless a really nice asset comes in, I don't mind trialing Otto one more year and seeing whether his injuries are career debilitating or just a bad 1-2 year fluke. He's the type of player you'd rather keep as a roster compliment even if you target a big FA. In the NBA there is no such thing as 3D wing redundancy.

On the other hand, picking up Wiggins' salary is a huge cap burden in uncertain cap times. You are essentially locking yourself into lottery status. There is no way in hell Zach and Wiggins combine to lead a playoff team, especially if LaMelo is the party favor. Wiggins has a track record of tread-mill defense and inefficient offense. I totally see GSW boosting his value and elevating his game, and selling high. He might get motivated to achieve new heights in Silicon Valley, by playing with great spacers like Curry and Klay. But put him back in a position to be a top-2 option? The 2015 Chicago Timberwolves? Ew.

So to make that trade, I'd have to know that the 4-6 pick is a projected all-star. Totally reasonable trade if you love a player in the draft. I think GS says 'no' unless they get WCJ or Gafford back. Otto's injury uncertainty and expiring status are big red flags for the Warriors. I don't think Otto/Wiggins make a good trade concept.

Here's an alternate though:

LaVine, Sato, WCJ for Wiggins, FRP unprotected (1-3)

Bulls draft ideally Anthony Edwards. GS has a starting center. Move Klay to the SF position as he slows down from the ACL recovery. Insurance for the aging Curry.

I agree with your post up until your proposed trade. That's even worse tbh. This draft is really weak and Wiggins is a negative. I'm not the biggest fan of Lavine but he's on a value contract and has shown at least one elite NBA skill. Then adding our best/most impactful defender in wcj? Nahhhh

[Chicago-Bull-E]

I don’t think fans really look at the finances of a Wiggins + 2020 GSW 1st round pick package. That package is likely negative value to every owner in the league.

Let’s phrase it this way. You are telling your owner to accept this package where you’ll be paying +100 million dollars for a top pick in a weak draft and a role player wing likely worth less than the MLE. How on earth are you convincing your owner to accept that trade in today’s financial climate? It’s never going to happen IMO.

[Grodoboldo]

Having a hard time seeing why most people prefer Okoro to Vassell or Patrick Williams.
Okoro is fine, I guess. But there's no way I'd use a top 15 pick on him, even in a weak draft like this.
I mean, don't we already have a lockdown defensive guy who can't shoot for ****?

[Repeat 3-peat]

Read on Twitter

They cut a highlight reel of steals and blocks for a guy who averaged less than one of each.

I want to like Okoro, but the lack of defensive playmaking scares me. It's a length issue, I think. There aren't many guys who thrive defensively at the wing with his measurables.

Eh, he basically averaged 1 in each category. He's not much of a gambler and I'm not sure if that is due to his own preference or coaching, but I get the concern. I agree about his lack of length/wingspan(reported 6'8"), It's not completely ideal but it's not a red flag Imo, his overall athleticism makes up for it. Strength, lateral quickness, positioning and overall IQ show up on tape.

[Repeat 3-peat]

Having a hard time seeing why most people prefer Okoro to Vassell or Patrick Williams.
Okoro is fine, I guess. But there's no way I'd use a top 15 pick on him, even in a weak draft like this.
I mean, don't we already have a lockdown defensive guy who can't shoot for ****?

Vassell is definitely more ideal for today's NBA. Just started watching him after seeing some clips and he's impressive. 40% 3pt shooter, fantastic athlete.

I see him being on the radar for this team.

[AshyLarrysDiaper]

Read on Twitter

They cut a highlight reel of steals and blocks for a guy who averaged less than one of each.

I want to like Okoro, but the lack of defensive playmaking scares me. It's a length issue, I think. There aren't many guys who thrive defensively at the wing with his measurables.

Eh, he basically averaged 1 in each category. He's not much of a gambler and I'm not sure if that is due to his own preference or coaching, but I get the concern. I agree about his lack of length/wingspan(reported 6'8"), It's not completely ideal but it's not a red flag Imo, his overall athleticism makes up for it. Strength, lateral quickness, positioning and overall IQ show up on tape.

A 1.7% steal rate is a red flag for me. Elite athletes typically walk into steals in college, regardless of gambler tendencies or coaching. Such is the gap between their athleticism & anticipation and the average college opponent. It probably isn't damning. He's smart, strong, and has good feet as you said. But a prospect whose biggest strength is defense should probably generate defensive events.

That said, I'm not that much lower on him than consensus. He's in the 7-12 range imo.

[kulaz3000]

A 1.7% steal rate is a red flag for me. Elite athletes typically walk into steals in college, regardless of gambler tendencies or coaching. Such is the gap between their athleticism & anticipation and the average college opponent.

Yep, top defenders in the NBA level usually dominate in those types of totals in college. It's extremely rare for to have such low steals and block totals on the college level, to then become an above average defender on the NBA level. Doesn't mean it can't happen, but it's usually the exception to the rule.

Hard pass, especially if this best attribute is defense.

[MrSparkle]

I'd rather roll the dice on Porter. At least he only hurts the team when he's off the floor.

All things considered, when Otto actually plays in healthy capacity, he is a fantastic player. Totally a tier-3 NBA wing IMO (as in, #1 Lebron/Durant/Kawhi/Luka/Giannis, #2 Tatum/George/Butler/Simmons, #3 Middleton/Ingram/Brown/Gallinari/DeRozan)... and by and far the best Bull. I don't think it's a surprise that Bulls looked most functional when Otto played (excluding opening week where he was apparently injured).

Wiggins produces numbers but I see him as a tier 4 (post-injury Hayward, Warren, Barnes, Oubre). I'm drawing the line from guys who can match-up Kawhi/Lebron (so excluding Booker, Harden, Lavine, Beal, etc.).

Anyway, unless a really nice asset comes in, I don't mind trialing Otto one more year and seeing whether his injuries are career debilitating or just a bad 1-2 year fluke. He's the type of player you'd rather keep as a roster compliment even if you target a big FA. In the NBA there is no such thing as 3D wing redundancy.

On the other hand, picking up Wiggins' salary is a huge cap burden in uncertain cap times. You are essentially locking yourself into lottery status. There is no way in hell Zach and Wiggins combine to lead a playoff team, especially if LaMelo is the party favor. Wiggins has a track record of tread-mill defense and inefficient offense. I totally see GSW boosting his value and elevating his game, and selling high. He might get motivated to achieve new heights in Silicon Valley, by playing with great spacers like Curry and Klay. But put him back in a position to be a top-2 option? The 2015 Chicago Timberwolves? Ew.

So to make that trade, I'd have to know that the 4-6 pick is a projected all-star. Totally reasonable trade if you love a player in the draft. I think GS says 'no' unless they get WCJ or Gafford back. Otto's injury uncertainty and expiring status are big red flags for the Warriors. I don't think Otto/Wiggins make a good trade concept.

Here's an alternate though:

LaVine, Sato, WCJ for Wiggins, FRP unprotected (1-3)

Bulls draft ideally Anthony Edwards. GS has a starting center. Move Klay to the SF position as he slows down from the ACL recovery. Insurance for the aging Curry.

I agree with your post up until your proposed trade. That's even worse tbh. This draft is really weak and Wiggins is a negative. I'm not the biggest fan of Lavine but he's on a value contract and has shown at least one elite NBA skill. Then adding our best/most impactful defender in wcj? Nahhhh

Like I said, only guy I think I'd want is Edwards. If you see ASG potential , costing Zach and WCJ is easily worth the deal. Otherwise, agreed I'm not interested in taking a hit-miss prospect.

[wonderboy2]

All things considered, when Otto actually plays in healthy capacity, he is a fantastic player. Totally a tier-3 NBA wing IMO (as in, #1 Lebron/Durant/Kawhi/Luka/Giannis, #2 Tatum/George/Butler/Simmons, #3 Middleton/Ingram/Brown/Gallinari/DeRozan)... and by and far the best Bull. I don't think it's a surprise that Bulls looked most functional when Otto played (excluding opening week where he was apparently injured).

Wiggins produces numbers but I see him as a tier 4 (post-injury Hayward, Warren, Barnes, Oubre). I'm drawing the line from guys who can match-up Kawhi/Lebron (so excluding Booker, Harden, Lavine, Beal, etc.).

Anyway, unless a really nice asset comes in, I don't mind trialing Otto one more year and seeing whether his injuries are career debilitating or just a bad 1-2 year fluke. He's the type of player you'd rather keep as a roster compliment even if you target a big FA. In the NBA there is no such thing as 3D wing redundancy.

On the other hand, picking up Wiggins' salary is a huge cap burden in uncertain cap times. You are essentially locking yourself into lottery status. There is no way in hell Zach and Wiggins combine to lead a playoff team, especially if LaMelo is the party favor. Wiggins has a track record of tread-mill defense and inefficient offense. I totally see GSW boosting his value and elevating his game, and selling high. He might get motivated to achieve new heights in Silicon Valley, by playing with great spacers like Curry and Klay. But put him back in a position to be a top-2 option? The 2015 Chicago Timberwolves? Ew.

So to make that trade, I'd have to know that the 4-6 pick is a projected all-star. Totally reasonable trade if you love a player in the draft. I think GS says 'no' unless they get WCJ or Gafford back. Otto's injury uncertainty and expiring status are big red flags for the Warriors. I don't think Otto/Wiggins make a good trade concept.

Here's an alternate though:

LaVine, Sato, WCJ for Wiggins, FRP unprotected (1-3)

Bulls draft ideally Anthony Edwards. GS has a starting center. Move Klay to the SF position as he slows down from the ACL recovery. Insurance for the aging Curry.

I agree with your post up until your proposed trade. That's even worse tbh. This draft is really weak and Wiggins is a negative. I'm not the biggest fan of Lavine but he's on a value contract and has shown at least one elite NBA skill. Then adding our best/most impactful defender in wcj? Nahhhh

Like I said, only guy I think I'd want is Edwards. If you see ASG potential , costing Zach and WCJ is easily worth the deal. Otherwise, agreed I'm not interested in taking a hit-miss prospect.

We need to try to give away Non-factor guys like Sato. See if we can get any type of Value for him. He’s making 10 million dollars. We can get a vet min player to do what he does.

[sco]

I agree with your post up until your proposed trade. That's even worse tbh. This draft is really weak and Wiggins is a negative. I'm not the biggest fan of Lavine but he's on a value contract and has shown at least one elite NBA skill. Then adding our best/most impactful defender in wcj? Nahhhh

Like I said, only guy I think I'd want is Edwards. If you see ASG potential , costing Zach and WCJ is easily worth the deal. Otherwise, agreed I'm not interested in taking a hit-miss prospect.

We need to try to give away Non-factor guys like Sato. See if we can get any type of Value for him. He’s making 10 million dollars. We can get a vet min player to do what he does.

Normally, I get the notion of trying to free-up cap space to land a decent FA, but this season, unless Otto doesn't take his option, we aren't getting below the cap. Sato isn't gonna nab you a second round pick and I think he can be much better than he showed last season, with the right coach and a healthy squad.

[MikeDC]

Having a hard time seeing why most people prefer Okoro to Vassell or Patrick Williams.
Okoro is fine, I guess. But there's no way I'd use a top 15 pick on him, even in a weak draft like this.
I mean, don't we already have a lockdown defensive guy who can't shoot for ****?

Vassell is definitely more ideal for today's NBA. Just started watching him after seeing some clips and he's impressive. 40% 3pt shooter, fantastic athlete.

I see him being on the radar for this team.

I'm increasingly a fan of him and Josh Green. In both cases, I wish they were higher usage players, but my usual concern about that is somewhat tempered by the fact that they're playing on relatively talented teams.

With Vassell, the other question I have is about whether he's really going to be strong and athletic enough to really be a 2/3 sort of player, or if he's going to mostly be a 2. He's got the wingspan for being a 2/3, but he's not what I'd call an athletic specimen.

On the other hand, what I really like is that it shows that he's vocal and a hard worker who's showed a lot of development in both his game and his body. Without overselling it, I think a guy who's a clear plus in terms of basketball culture and hard work is always valuable but probably especially so with the current Bulls.

[Pax for Prez]

Having a hard time seeing why most people prefer Okoro to Vassell or Patrick Williams.
Okoro is fine, I guess. But there's no way I'd use a top 15 pick on him, even in a weak draft like this.
I mean, don't we already have a lockdown defensive guy who can't shoot for ****?

Vassell is definitely more ideal for today's NBA. Just started watching him after seeing some clips and he's impressive. 40% 3pt shooter, fantastic athlete.

I see him being on the radar for this team.

With Vassell, the other question I have is about whether he's really going to be strong and athletic enough to really be a 2/3 sort of player, or if he's going to mostly be a 2. He's got the wingspan for being a 2/3, but he's not what I'd call an athletic specimen.

Agreed, I am really interested in Vassell measurements is he truly 6 ft 7 inches or more like 6 ft 5 , wingspan close to 7 ft or alot less ? and his weight closer to 200lbs or more like 180lbs ? This will help seeing if he can play the 3 or is only a 2.

Pax

[MrFortune3]

A 1.7% steal rate is a red flag for me. Elite athletes typically walk into steals in college, regardless of gambler tendencies or coaching. Such is the gap between their athleticism & anticipation and the average college opponent.

Yep, top defenders in the NBA level usually dominate in those types of totals in college. It's extremely rare for to have such low steals and block totals on the college level, to then become an above average defender on the NBA level. Doesn't mean it can't happen, but it's usually the exception to the rule.

Hard pass, especially if this best attribute is defense.

I wouldn't worry too much about that. I'm more concerned with his overall defense than steals or blocks. He has a lot of upside and will continue to get better as he fills out and grows in the NBA.

[kulaz3000]

A 1.7% steal rate is a red flag for me. Elite athletes typically walk into steals in college, regardless of gambler tendencies or coaching. Such is the gap between their athleticism & anticipation and the average college opponent.

Yep, top defenders in the NBA level usually dominate in those types of totals in college. It's extremely rare for to have such low steals and block totals on the college level, to then become an above average defender on the NBA level. Doesn't mean it can't happen, but it's usually the exception to the rule.

Hard pass, especially if this best attribute is defense.

I wouldn't worry too much about that. I'm more concerned with his overall defense than steals or blocks. He has a lot of upside and will continue to get better as he fills out and grows in the NBA.

But we are talking about evaluating a college prospect, and not an already NBA player who is a solid defender, but doesn't have the stats, which is fine. Point being, good defenders at the college level, tend to have high blocks and steals total, and even then, they come into the NBA as average to poor defenders. Which is why as a player with average dimensions, but a strong athlete, but still lacks the defensive stats, it can be worrisome.

If we just talking about defensive smarts, and being intelligent enough to learn team defense, even less athletic and mediocre defensive players can learn that over time. If that's the case, you don't want to be using a lottery pick for those types of prospects, or you shouldn't be.

[Grodoboldo]

Saw a random mock draft with Nesmith going 17th and Maledon 28th.
If that was the case, I'd be game to trade down with Boston for both of them.
Yeah, yeah, I know trading down for specific guys is difficult. But I'm drunk watching draft prospects late at night trying to stir things up.

[MrFortune3]

Yep, top defenders in the NBA level usually dominate in those types of totals in college. It's extremely rare for to have such low steals and block totals on the college level, to then become an above average defender on the NBA level. Doesn't mean it can't happen, but it's usually the exception to the rule.

Hard pass, especially if this best attribute is defense.

I wouldn't worry too much about that. I'm more concerned with his overall defense than steals or blocks. He has a lot of upside and will continue to get better as he fills out and grows in the NBA.

But we are talking about evaluating a college prospect, and not an already NBA player who is a solid defender, but doesn't have the stats, which is fine. Point being, good defenders at the college level, tend to have high blocks and steals total, and even then, they come into the NBA as average to poor defenders. Which is why as a player with average dimensions, but a strong athlete, but still lacks the defensive stats, it can be worrisome.

If we just talking about defensive smarts, and being intelligent enough to learn team defense, even less athletic and mediocre defensive players can learn that over time. If that's the case, you don't want to be using a lottery pick for those types of prospects, or you shouldn't be.

He's a wing player, James Harden is tied for 6th in the NBA in steals and he's a **** defender. Harden is also tied with DeAndre Jordan, Al Horford, Pascal Siakim, Tristan Thompson among others for blocks.
Doesn't make him any better of a defender.
I care more about his ability to rotate, take charges, play with good basketball IQ and play to his strengths on the defensive side of the ball without taking crazy chances.

He played 1 season of college, everybody isn't going to be insane as a 1 and done. He turned himself into a lotto pick when before the season began he was around the 40th ranked player in his HS class.
We have no true idea of what he's capable of off of one singular season of college basketball.

[StunnerKO]

Y’all can listen to the podcast they do a mock draft


https://www.google.com/amp/s/collegebasketball.nbcsports.com/2020/07/20/2020-nba-mock-draft-3-0-is-james-wiseman-the-no-1-overall-pick/amp/