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2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick #7 (probably)

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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick #7 (probably) 

Post#1741 » by 2018C3 » Thu Jul 23, 2020 5:01 am

I would like to think that it may help to identify players who have certain characteristics that might help them succeed . Guys like Jimmy Butler, Ben Wallace, Kawhi Leonard should have all been picked higher.

Guys like Beasley, who I personally would have at the time picked over Rose. In further study of behavior characteristics maybe should have been picked lower.

At the time I thought Beasley was a for sure multiple all star. can't miss pick.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick #7 (probably) 

Post#1742 » by pipfan » Thu Jul 23, 2020 1:37 pm

Thing with Doug, he is a dumb player. I have NEVER seen a player give up so many ticky-tacky and 1's around the basket. My God, that used to drive me crazy. He would just lightly slap a guy on a layup every game, it seemed. I was wrong about him.

I think Lauri is more about mindset-he has to get more aggressive.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick #7 (probably) 

Post#1743 » by Jcool0 » Thu Jul 23, 2020 1:37 pm

2018C3 wrote:I would like to think that it may help to identify players who have certain characteristics that might help them succeed . Guys like Jimmy Butler, Ben Wallace, Kawhi Leonard should have all been picked higher.

Guys like Beasley, who I personally would have at the time picked over Rose. In further study of behavior characteristics maybe should have been picked lower.

At the time I thought Beasley was a for sure multiple all star. can't miss pick.


You thought a barely 6-8 PF with questionable work ethic was going to be a multiple all-star?
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick #7 (probably) 

Post#1744 » by TheSuzerain » Thu Jul 23, 2020 5:21 pm

Jcool0 wrote:
2018C3 wrote:I would like to think that it may help to identify players who have certain characteristics that might help them succeed . Guys like Jimmy Butler, Ben Wallace, Kawhi Leonard should have all been picked higher.

Guys like Beasley, who I personally would have at the time picked over Rose. In further study of behavior characteristics maybe should have been picked lower.

At the time I thought Beasley was a for sure multiple all star. can't miss pick.


You thought a barely 6-8 PF with questionable work ethic was going to be a multiple all-star?

Beasley had an all time great freshman season.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick #7 (probably) 

Post#1745 » by JohnnyTapwater » Thu Jul 23, 2020 5:31 pm

Temperament evaluation is essential...
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick #7 (probably) 

Post#1746 » by Leslie Forman » Thu Jul 23, 2020 9:06 pm

TheSuzerain wrote:
Jcool0 wrote:
2018C3 wrote:I would like to think that it may help to identify players who have certain characteristics that might help them succeed . Guys like Jimmy Butler, Ben Wallace, Kawhi Leonard should have all been picked higher.

Guys like Beasley, who I personally would have at the time picked over Rose. In further study of behavior characteristics maybe should have been picked lower.

At the time I thought Beasley was a for sure multiple all star. can't miss pick.


You thought a barely 6-8 PF with questionable work ethic was going to be a multiple all-star?

Beasley had an all time great freshman season.

Yeah Beasley wasn't a tweener, he was versatile. A true combo forward. He had one of the greatest skillsets of any forward his age I've ever seen. You don't just get that kind of skillset out of nowhere, you have to have at least a pretty decent work ethic.

The problem was that he was just dumb as rocks. And not some "haha he cheated on his ACTs" dumb, his basketball IQ was just atrocious. Derrick Rose might not be getting a PhD anytime soon but he knew basketball and he knew how to be a pro. That was obviously coming through the workout process and was why Riley didn't even want him at 2. Just nothing between the ears. Looking back, it seems ridiculous there was even a debate - it seems like nobody who met Beasley actually wanted to draft the guy but he was just too damn talented.

Hell the Morisses aren't any bigger and are waaaaay less talented yet they have had better careers. Just put some random no-name player's brain in Beasley's body and you might have an All-NBA player.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick #7 (probably) 

Post#1747 » by Jcool0 » Fri Jul 24, 2020 2:57 am

Leslie Forman wrote:
TheSuzerain wrote:
Jcool0 wrote:
You thought a barely 6-8 PF with questionable work ethic was going to be a multiple all-star?

Beasley had an all time great freshman season.

Yeah Beasley wasn't a tweener, he was versatile. A true combo forward. He had one of the greatest skillsets of any forward his age I've ever seen. You don't just get that kind of skillset out of nowhere, you have to have at least a pretty decent work ethic.

The problem was that he was just dumb as rocks. And not some "haha he cheated on his ACTs" dumb, his basketball IQ was just atrocious. Derrick Rose might not be getting a PhD anytime soon but he knew basketball and he knew how to be a pro. That was obviously coming through the workout process and was why Riley didn't even want him at 2. Just nothing between the ears. Looking back, it seems ridiculous there was even a debate - it seems like nobody who met Beasley actually wanted to draft the guy but he was just too damn talented.

Hell the Morisses aren't any bigger and are waaaaay less talented yet they have had better careers. Just put some random no-name player's brain in Beasley's body and you might have an All-NBA player.


No he was exactly a tweener, which is one reason he struggled in the NBA. According to Draft Express at Kansas State he converted 67% of his shot-attempts around the rim, and 52% of his back-to-the-basket opportunities. During his rookie year it had dropped to 48% on shot attempts around the rim and 32% of his post-moves. At KS post-up plays accounted for 33% of his shot-attempts, his rookie year that percentage of attempts has fallen to just 15%. He was able to bully players at the college level and couldn't duplicate that in the NBA.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick #7 (probably) 

Post#1748 » by Leslie Forman » Fri Jul 24, 2020 5:39 am

Jcool0 wrote:No he was exactly a tweener, which is one reason he struggled in the NBA. According to Draft Express at Kansas State he converted 67% of his shot-attempts around the rim, and 52% of his back-to-the-basket opportunities. During his rookie year it had dropped to 48% on shot attempts around the rim and 32% of his post-moves. At KS post-up plays accounted for 33% of his shot-attempts, his rookie year that percentage of attempts has fallen to just 15%. He was able to bully players at the college level and couldn't duplicate that in the NBA.

Nah. He had plenty of skill to adapt. With his shooting ability and face up game he had the diversity to be an elite scorer.

Look at his shooting splits.

What's the really big flaw here? Look at all those stupid inefficient midrange and long 2 pointers Beasley takes. He settled for those things all the time when he was shooting just 40% on them. Here's the thing - 40% is actually pretty good. But it's not good enough to warrant that volume. He was taking almost as many as guys like Dirk and Bosh as a % of his FGAs - those guys were more in the mid-40s - when he could have just stepped a little back and taken way more 3s, which he was 35% on. That alone would have made his TS% skyrocket.

He just never really understood how to maximize his ability. He should have been a layup and 3 spamming guy with that midrange ability in his pocket for when necessary. He could drain 3s, take big guys off the dribble, back down weaker guys, turnaround on strong but short guys, crash the boards, he could do all these things but instead he thought being a 3 in the pros (a mistake that wasn't all his fault - he should never have been converted to a 3) meant hanging around inside the 3 point line and taking tons of sh*tty midrange or long 2s, which, of course, also cut down his FTAs too.

Honestly he would have been a way better player if his shot charts looked more like…Markkanen's. Instead of playing like an '80s small forward he should have been a proto-stretch modern 4.


That game isn't supposed to show how good he was, it's to show why he never got it. Guy had juuuuust enough games like this where he made a ton of those stupid long 2s to have completely irrational confidence in taking so many of them.


That's closer to what he should have been as a pro.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick #7 (probably) 

Post#1749 » by JohnnyTapwater » Fri Jul 24, 2020 1:11 pm

The Dunning-Kruger effect is a cognitive bias in which people wrongly overestimate their knowledge or ability in a specific area. This tends to occur because a lack of self-awareness prevents them from accurately assessing their own skills.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick #7 (probably) 

Post#1750 » by DuckIII » Fri Jul 24, 2020 1:24 pm

Jcool0 wrote:
2018C3 wrote:I would like to think that it may help to identify players who have certain characteristics that might help them succeed . Guys like Jimmy Butler, Ben Wallace, Kawhi Leonard should have all been picked higher.

Guys like Beasley, who I personally would have at the time picked over Rose. In further study of behavior characteristics maybe should have been picked lower.

At the time I thought Beasley was a for sure multiple all star. can't miss pick.


You thought a barely 6-8 PF with questionable work ethic was going to be a multiple all-star?


I did. I thought he was Carmelo Anthony with a motor.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick #7 (probably) 

Post#1751 » by Grodoboldo » Fri Jul 24, 2020 10:46 pm

JohnnyTapwater wrote:The Dunning-Kruger effect is a cognitive bias in which people wrongly overestimate their knowledge or ability in a specific area. This tends to occur because a lack of self-awareness prevents them from accurately assessing their own skills.


Yep. This is me trying to evaluate players for the draft.
I don't know anything about college basketball. I would rather trade down/out. My Bulls big board for the 2020 Draft (as of August 1st):
1-Edwards; 2-Avdija; 3-Hayes; 4-Haliburton; 5-Ball; 6-Toppin; 7-Nesmith; 8-Vassell; 9-Maledon; 10-Williams.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick #7 (probably) 

Post#1752 » by StunnerKO » Sat Jul 25, 2020 11:40 am

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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick #7 (probably) 

Post#1753 » by StunnerKO » Sat Jul 25, 2020 11:40 am

Also Draft Lottery moved up to August 20th
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick #7 (probably) 

Post#1754 » by Jcool0 » Sat Jul 25, 2020 3:06 pm

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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick #7 (probably) 

Post#1755 » by Chi town » Sat Jul 25, 2020 5:19 pm

Could Melo Coby and Lavine play together?
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick #7 (probably) 

Post#1756 » by MrFortune3 » Sat Jul 25, 2020 9:00 pm

JohnnyTapwater wrote:The Dunning-Kruger effect is a cognitive bias in which people wrongly overestimate their knowledge or ability in a specific area. This tends to occur because a lack of self-awareness prevents them from accurately assessing their own skills.


Yep. That's me during the draft.

Still thought Beasley was a stud, just didn't like his work ethic.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick #7 (probably) 

Post#1757 » by Showtime23 » Sun Jul 26, 2020 7:51 pm

Jcool0 wrote:
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This was expected as he was still learning and had decent form for his age.
Obviously the ft was mental thing so anyone basing him off those numbers was premature.

Deni is my top prospect at #7, but if him and Ball are gone, I want the Bulls to draft Okongwu.
Seems much more athletic, fluid than Carter and theres some potential with him in offense as well.
Bigs will be overloaded so I would try to sell Carter at his highest value which is probably now considering he made improvements.

Drafting Hali at #7 to be pg of the future and trade Carter for #8 would be ideal for Okongwu.
Best scenario would be trade Lavine for Ball (#2), draft Hali (#7), Okongwu (#8).
Would be one of the fastest rebuilds since Doncic/Trae era and move White to his natural sg position.
Hali/White/Ball/Lauri/Okongwu would be a disgusting lineup in 5 yrs with little injury concerns.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick #7 (probably) 

Post#1758 » by StunnerKO » Sun Jul 26, 2020 8:24 pm

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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick #7 (probably) 

Post#1759 » by MrFortune3 » Sun Jul 26, 2020 10:36 pm

Jcool0 wrote:
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I want Deni so bad. I need him in my Bulls life.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick #7 (probably) 

Post#1760 » by sco » Mon Jul 27, 2020 12:00 pm

MrFortune3 wrote:
Jcool0 wrote:
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I want Deni so bad. I need him in my Bulls life.

I just worry that Deni is a tweener...too slow for SF and too small for PF. Feels Deni could be to Luca what McDermott is to Korver.
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