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Boylen and LaVine Butt Heads
Posted: Sat Nov 23, 2019 6:55 am
by HomoSapien
It's being discussed in the game thread, but seems like a potentially big enough thing to warrant it's own thread. KC sees it as a potential breaking point in the rebuild. Here's some quotes from his write up:
Asked why he only pulled LaVine so early on a night several starters looked flat, Boylen said: “Because I didn’t want him in the game anymore. I think he needed to come over and think about it. He had three egregious defensive mistakes that I’ve talked to him about.”
“I don’t remember seeing three egregious mistakes,” LaVine said. “I think I was supposed to show on one. And I didn’t. I told him because Jimmy doesn’t usually set screens. He slips out of them. I didn’t want to show and have him cut right to the basket. They told me to show and I didn’t show. The other two, I don’t know.
“I try to talk early, especially the one with Kendrick Nunn. I had to protect the paint. You ain’t just trying to give up a transition layup. Once you call that man, it’s going to be hard to play two people. I’ll have to look at the one with Jimmy in the corner. I think we got messed up on a switch. [Shaq Harrison] called switch and one of us didn’t respond to it. He got an open three. I think he airballed that one, right? So.”
“You have a conversation with him,” LaVine said on what’s next. “He thinks I had three egregious defensive mistakes. That’s on him. He can make his own opinion on that. I tell him how I feel. He tells me how he feels. I can’t really let that try to affect my game. I still have the rest of the game to play.”
More at the link:
https://www.nbcsports.com/chicago/bulls/jim-boylen-pulls-zach-lavine-early-dispiriting-home-loss-heatI tuned in after half-time, so maybe Boylen's subbing was justified. Still, it's not a good sign that he's starting to lose his leading scorer. I said it in another thread, but if Paxson sees Lauri and LaVine as potential franchise cogs why has he trusted their critical development with Hoiberg and Boylen? It just seems like if you care about their development, you don't hand the keys to the franchise to someone so unproven.
Re: Boylen and LaVine Butt Heads
Posted: Sat Nov 23, 2019 7:08 am
by netduri2
Lavine even interviewed with Vincent Goodwill after the game.
https://sports.yahoo.com/amphtml/bulls-guard-zach-la-vine-bristles-at-being-benched-singled-out-054956925.html?__twitter_impression=trueFrom the article..
Q: Do you trust him[Boylen] still?
Lavine: I’m trying my best, I'll say that. I'm playing my minutes and trying to do the best I can do. It's tough, especially when you're in a rut. If he doesn't trust me, it's hard to trust someone who doesn't trust you.
Am I the only one who think this part means that Zach doesn't trust Boylen?
I think these kinds of interview is not ordinary especially after all the mess. It seems like Zach is criticizing Boylen indirectly by using the media.
Re: Boylen and LaVine Butt Heads
Posted: Sat Nov 23, 2019 7:15 am
by HomoSapien
netduri2 wrote:Lavine even interviewed with Vincent Goodwill after the game.
https://sports.yahoo.com/amphtml/bulls-guard-zach-la-vine-bristles-at-being-benched-singled-out-054956925.html?__twitter_impression=trueFrom the article..
Q: Do you trust him[Boylen] still?
Lavine: I’m trying my best, I'll say that. I'm playing my minutes and trying to do the best I can do. It's tough, especially when you're in a rut. If he doesn't trust me, it's hard to trust someone who doesn't trust you.
Am I the only one who think this part means that Zach doesn't trust Boylen?
I think these kinds of interview is not ordinary especially after all the mess. It seems like Zach is criticizing Boylen indirectly by using the media.
Wow, these quotes are more incendiary than the one's I posted. He's definitely saying he doesn't trust Boylen.
Q: Does [Boylen] trust you?
A: I feel I earned that trust, but I guess he feels differently. Other players around the league — and everybody's situation isn't the same — I feel other players around the league have that trust. I guess we haven't got there.
Q: What happened to that trust?
A: I wish I knew. I feel we had a good offseason. He came and visited us and wanted us to work on certain things. With this start, there's been some lack of trust and sh-- you view differently, different opinions on.
Re: Boylen and LaVine Butt Heads
Posted: Sat Nov 23, 2019 7:21 am
by dice
i'm not sure i can sleep at night if i suspect that zach lavine doesn't trust jim boylen. i mean, what is this world coming to?
Re: Boylen and LaVine Butt Heads
Posted: Sat Nov 23, 2019 7:30 am
by Apackfan
Q: Does [Boylen] trust you?
A: I feel I earned that trust, but I guess he feels differently. Other players around the league — and everybody's situation isn't the same — I feel other players around the league have that trust. I guess we haven't got there.
[/quote]
This guy Zach Lavine sounds like a spoiled entitled kid, like seriously. How did he "earn" that trust? You play like crap. You've done nothing to earn that trust.
When he mentions other players around the league, well that's exactly why the league is so weak with sensitive players such as him.
Basically Compare Zachs mentality now to jimmy's during his early days with the bulls? Difference is day and night.
His body language says it all.
Re: Boylen and LaVine Butt Heads
Posted: Sat Nov 23, 2019 7:51 am
by Hangtime84
Media is going have fun with this Zach you are a team in a major market
Re: Boylen and LaVine Butt Heads
Posted: Sat Nov 23, 2019 7:52 am
by mtron32
Apackfan wrote:Q: Does [Boylen] trust you?
A: I feel I earned that trust, but I guess he feels differently. Other players around the league — and everybody's situation isn't the same — I feel other players around the league have that trust. I guess we haven't got there.
This guy Zach Lavine sounds like a spoiled entitled kid, like seriously. How did he "earn" that trust? You play like crap. You've done nothing to earn that trust.
When he mentions other players around the league, well that's exactly why the league is so weak with sensitive players such as him.
Basically Compare Zachs mentality now to jimmy's during his early days with the bulls? Difference is day and night.
His body language says it all.[/quote]
You're right about the body language, he was probably the mutiny ring leader. I'm not a Boylen fan but I would've put him in the second unit tonight for the start, him and Lauri, the bench is outplaying them.
Re: Boylen and LaVine Butt Heads
Posted: Sat Nov 23, 2019 7:53 am
by Axolotl
If there indeed is a distrust brewing between the players and Boylen, at least it offers Paxson a way to fire Boylen without losing face.
Re: Boylen and LaVine Butt Heads
Posted: Sat Nov 23, 2019 7:54 am
by mtron32
Hell I would've yanked him after that first three brick, how's he supposed to trust you when you let that go seconds into the game?
Re: Boylen and LaVine Butt Heads
Posted: Sat Nov 23, 2019 8:03 am
by meekrab
Two basketball mini-brains disagree on how to worst play basketball, shocking.
Re: Boylen and LaVine Butt Heads
Posted: Sat Nov 23, 2019 8:05 am
by Hangtime84
Axolotl wrote:If there indeed is a distrust brewing between the players and Boylen, at least it offers Paxson a way to fire Boylen without losing face.
Our players aren’t as good as they think they are. Our fan base is gassing them too.
Re: Boylen and LaVine Butt Heads
Posted: Sat Nov 23, 2019 8:19 am
by nomorezorro
zach shouldn't think so highly of himself if his game isn't backing it up, but boylen has done jack **** to command the respect of anyone on this team, and he's a doofus who clearly struggles to effectively manage people.
he's trash and he should go away so we can have an idea of what this team would look like under a head coach who isn't laughably bad
Re: Boylen and LaVine Butt Heads
Posted: Sat Nov 23, 2019 8:29 am
by Andi Obst
If LaVine gets Boylen fired he has my All Star vote, that's for sure.
Re: Boylen and LaVine Butt Heads
Posted: Sat Nov 23, 2019 8:32 am
by Andi Obst
Remember when Jimbo the Clown said that he has never yanked a guy and he will never do it?
Good times.
Re: Boylen and LaVine Butt Heads
Posted: Sat Nov 23, 2019 8:43 am
by WindyCityBorn
Hangtime84 wrote:Media is going have fun with this Zach you are a team in a major market
No one likes Boylen so I don't see him catching much heat. Regardless of where you stand with LaVine I think just about all of us can agree that Boylen is a bad coach. Coaching is more than Xs and Os and it is no coincidence that his last head coaching gig ended up a disaster too because he has no clue how to relate to players at any level. He must definitely know to kiss Paxson's ass though.
Re: Boylen and LaVine Butt Heads
Posted: Sat Nov 23, 2019 8:46 am
by WindyCityBorn
This is good. If Boylen gets fired that is great. If LaVine gets traded then the rebuild Pad touted is officially a failure and may be he gets fired along with Boylen at season's end. I hope this gets nasty. Please don't squash it.
Re: Boylen and LaVine Butt Heads
Posted: Sat Nov 23, 2019 8:50 am
by PrimzyBulls81
If Boylen wouldnt sign 3year extension and this continues he might get fired, but with that contract, damn... Its hard to imagine Bulls paying for 2 coaches at same time, unless JB contract is only partially guaranteed.
Re: Boylen and LaVine Butt Heads
Posted: Sat Nov 23, 2019 9:10 am
by MeloRoseNoah
Lavine is as good as gone.
GarPax has soured on Lavine. See Boylen extra manhood coming out by benching Lavine for his bs antics. He has the full blessing from management with regards to Lavine.
Boylen job security is VERY solid.
Re: Boylen and LaVine Butt Heads
Posted: Sat Nov 23, 2019 11:08 am
by WindyCityBorn
MeloRoseNoah wrote:Lavine is as good as gone.
GarPax has soured on Lavine. See Boylen extra manhood coming out by benching Lavine for his bs antics. He has the full blessing from management with regards to Lavine.
Boylen job security is VERY solid.
We are screwed then, but we already knew this. Zach can be the next fall guy, but we know this organization is rotten from the top down.
Re: Boylen and LaVine Butt Heads
Posted: Sat Nov 23, 2019 12:40 pm
by cjbulls
Boylen pulling Zach in the first quarter was the first instance of accountability from Boylen since his first week as head coach. It has been needed, but now you see the fallout.
Zach’s comments are inappropriate and he knows exactly what he is doing by putting these out there. Not a great signal on Zach’s personality.
With that said, Boylen opened this door in the past month with his inappropriate comments throwing the team under the bus. It doesn’t help either that he has seemed to coddle Zach since the mutiny.
What a mess this has the potential to turn into. I encourage Boylen to keep holding Zach accountable though. It’s the best way to help him long-term no matter who is coaching.