Lauri Markkanen Discussion Thread

[Wingy]

Lauri doesn’t deserve the venomous bashing, nor does he deserve the weird extreme adoration.

Let's not start this "there's bad people on both sides" thing. There's like ONE poster on this forum who can see no wrong with anything Markkanen does, and I think even he's trolling 50% of the time.

The rest of us only have an issue with unintelligent bashing and hating.

"He's unplayable"
"Without the jump shot, he'd be worse than Felicio"
"He's one of the worst defenders in the NBA"
"He's dead weight"

There's something seriously wrong with this organization. We consistently fail to develop our young players. If they're promising, we give them a very narrow role and lots of playing time... and then pretend to be surprised when they haven't improved as basketball players.

Every exit interview with a young player should have a list of things the team expects him to improve in the offseason - and the team should also offer help and coaching in this process. That's just managing your investments.

Yeah, but - do you really think the unintelligent bashing and hating represents the masses? Those that Sir Charles would label "knucklehead" don't represent the board at large.

The last couple paragraphs are excuses. The org didn't do a great job at drafting. If you can play, you can play. As many have said...there are a whole heckuva lot of players in the league that will look better, good...even great if they become the focus of shots, plays, game plan. Except...you just can't do that for everyone.

I know we had a stagnant, ultra-conservative, poor decision-making FO for a very long time, and I would've been happy to see them jettisoned many years ago...but to assume they didn't discuss what they wanted players to work on during the offseason? That's just unintelligent bashing and hating.

[Pentele]

I still remember how much people on this forum criticized drafting Lauri at the time. When the season started, it of course did not take long to practically everyone to change their tune (and rightly so given how Lauri played as a rookie). That is probably why almost everyone now seem to think that Lauri has steadily failed all expectations. The truth is he managed to surpass them by a wide margin right from the start which set the bar for present temper tantrums.

This discussion is pointless. Expectations change based on changing evidence. The original expectation, built on a foundation of practically nothing at all, becomes irrelevant once real information develops.

What discussion? The one to which I responded or the one you read (too much?) into what I wrote? I think the part you quoted is a rather accurate description of what has taken place. I also think that you yourself made a valid point in your own post. I do not see a disagreement between you and me. It may be that you presume that I have some ulterior agenda, and feel the need to respond to that.

To be honest, this Lauri thread as a whole seems a bit pointless to me at this point. People keep repeating the same things over and over again. But that is just my two cents to the discussion duck is having about which contributions are pointless and which are not. As far as I am concerned, please continue by all means.

[DuckIII]

I still remember how much people on this forum criticized drafting Lauri at the time. When the season started, it of course did not take long to practically everyone to change their tune (and rightly so given how Lauri played as a rookie). That is probably why almost everyone now seem to think that Lauri has steadily failed all expectations. The truth is he managed to surpass them by a wide margin right from the start which set the bar for present temper tantrums.

This discussion is pointless. Expectations change based on changing evidence. The original expectation, built on a foundation of practically nothing at all, becomes irrelevant once real information develops.

What discussion? The one to which I responded or the one you read (too much?) into what I wrote? I think the part you quoted is a rather accurate description of what has taken place. I also think that you yourself made a valid point in your own post. I do not see a disagreement between you and me. It may be that you presume that I have some ulterior agenda, and feel the need to respond to that.

To be honest, this Lauri thread as a whole seems a bit pointless to me at this point. People keep repeating the same things over and over again. But that is just my two cents to the discussion duck is having about which contributions are pointless and which are not. As far as I am concerned, please continue by all means.

The one regarding whether he’s met expectations. He hasn’t with regard to the only expectations that matter; I.e., informed ones. If you agree with that, and I think you do, cool.

[sami71]

See this is why you can't have an honest conversation about Lauri. Everything he doesn't do well in his fourth year or basically his entire career is somehow somebody else's fault. It's the coaching, it's the scheme, he needs a different role, he needs better teammates. So he needs everything catered to him and the perfect situation just to get better? So now the next excuse for Lauri is the Bulls didn't develop him or give him goals to get better. Let's say that's true couldn't Lauri have worked on his handles, defense, post-game or whatever it may be. There was nothing that Lauri wanted to add to his game or improve whether the Bulls told him to or not?

Look. Why don't you count the people that are saying that it's always some one else's fault - or I can save you the trouble and just tell you it's one. And then go count the people telling it's always the people saying it's someone else's fault.

I really wanted Lauri to succeed but it was all over when he had the first child. I guess some other Finns saw the reality show Maria Veitola in his house years ago. The writing was on the wall back then. Lauri never prioritized basketball in a way it would have been necessary. I am going to get flamed by my fellow Finns again, but I will live - Lauri made very stupid decisions in his life as far as NBA is concerned. They might be great otherwise, but who cares in a Bulls forum? Not only did he give the keys to his life to his wife that makes him do mundane house work for equality's sake, he listened to mediocre (which in fact considering it is Finland is flattering them) BB people like Dettmann and his dad instead of Bulls. The End. See you in Europe, Lauri. It would have been great to have a Finn actually do something in the NBA.

I never was much of a BB fan before all this though. So I do have that to be thankful of Lauri. Following Bulls and NBA has been great and I expect to be doing that long after Lauri is gone.

[DuckIII]

Wait, are you saying Lauri and his wife had a reality TV show? I’m not sure I understand part of your post.

EDIT: Never mind. I looked it up.

[sami71]

Wait, are you saying Lauri and his wife had a reality TV show? I’m not sure I understand part of your post.

No, sorry. They were featured in a reality where a person Maria Veitola visits people in their homes for a time. She was with them in Chicago.

[Pentele]

This discussion is pointless. Expectations change based on changing evidence. The original expectation, built on a foundation of practically nothing at all, becomes irrelevant once real information develops.

What discussion? The one to which I responded or the one you read (too much?) into what I wrote? I think the part you quoted is a rather accurate description of what has taken place. I also think that you yourself made a valid point in your own post. I do not see a disagreement between you and me. It may be that you presume that I have some ulterior agenda, and feel the need to respond to that.

To be honest, this Lauri thread as a whole seems a bit pointless to me at this point. People keep repeating the same things over and over again. But that is just my two cents to the discussion duck is having about which contributions are pointless and which are not. As far as I am concerned, please continue by all means.

The one regarding whether he’s met expectations. He hasn’t with regard to the only expectations that matter; I.e., informed ones. If you agree with that, and I think you do, cool.

I watched Lauri's play (live) at the Eurobasket, just before he came to the Bulls. I do not claim to be a good player evaluator, but I thought Lauri was an exceptional talent. It did not take long for people to catch on in the US. So far, Lauri has failed my expectations, whether they are informed or not.

That being said, I do not see anything wrong with observing that Lauri was the seventh pick, and the seventh picks end up being great players only exceedingly rarely. Now that Lauri's time with the Bulls is nearing its end, I think it is also worthwhile to note that most posters around here did not expect that much from Lauri in the beginning. Of course, in my opinion the reason for the low expectations was that most posters were not well-informed (which is only to be expected with some European players), so one might indeed say that Lauri has not met the informed expectations.

Ironically, those informed expectations were, originally, mostly by the odd few who watched the Eurobasket and/or are Lauri's compatriots. Probably much the same people that are presently ridiculed by some on this forum for still seeing some upside in Lauri's game. Perhaps we/they end up being right once more, perhaps not. What I know is that people around here assume too much by acting so very hurt that Lauri has failed their rightful expectations. As far as the great expectations goes, they are late to the game. [to be clear, I do not include you, Duck, to "people around here" in this context]

[sco]

What discussion? The one to which I responded or the one you read (too much?) into what I wrote? I think the part you quoted is a rather accurate description of what has taken place. I also think that you yourself made a valid point in your own post. I do not see a disagreement between you and me. It may be that you presume that I have some ulterior agenda, and feel the need to respond to that.

To be honest, this Lauri thread as a whole seems a bit pointless to me at this point. People keep repeating the same things over and over again. But that is just my two cents to the discussion duck is having about which contributions are pointless and which are not. As far as I am concerned, please continue by all means.

The one regarding whether he’s met expectations. He hasn’t with regard to the only expectations that matter; I.e., informed ones. If you agree with that, and I think you do, cool.

I watched Lauri's play (live) at the Eurobasket, just before he came to the Bulls. I do not claim to be a good player evaluator, but I thought Lauri was an exceptional talent. It did not take long for people to catch on in the US. So far, Lauri has failed my expectations, whether they are informed or not.

That being said, I do not see anything wrong with observing that Lauri was the seventh pick, and the seventh picks end up being great players only exceedingly rarely. Now that Lauri's time with the Bulls is nearing its end, I think it is also worthwhile to note that most posters around here did not expect that much from Lauri in the beginning. Of course, in my opinion the reason for the low expectations was that most posters were not well-informed (which is only to be expected with some European players), so one might indeed say that Lauri has not met the informed expectations.

Ironically, those informed expectations were, originally, mostly by the odd few who watched the Eurobasket and/or are Lauri's compatriots. Probably much the same people that are presently ridiculed by some on this forum for still seeing some upside in Lauri's game. Perhaps we/they end up being right once more, perhaps not. What I know is that people around here assume too much by acting so very hurt that Lauri has failed their rightful expectations. As far as the great expectations goes, they are late to the game. [to be clear, I do not include you, Duck, to "people around here" in this context]

IMO, Lauri came in with loads of potential...the prospects of 7 footers who could shoot 3's and were relatively quick and skilled at 19 are generally good. I think many here confuse potential with realized potential. He had TONS of potential, but due to the many factors discussed in this thread, he has yet to realize much of that potential. Again, not to say he's bad - he's currently a top 20-30 starting PF in the NBA. Most NBA players fail to realize their potential, as it requires a level of effort and commitment that most people don't have...especially when you add in money and family to distract.

[the ultimates]

See this is why you can't have an honest conversation about Lauri. Everything he doesn't do well in his fourth year or basically his entire career is somehow somebody else's fault. It's the coaching, it's the scheme, he needs a different role, he needs better teammates. So he needs everything catered to him and the perfect situation just to get better? So now the next excuse for Lauri is the Bulls didn't develop him or give him goals to get better. Let's say that's true couldn't Lauri have worked on his handles, defense, post-game or whatever it may be. There was nothing that Lauri wanted to add to his game or improve whether the Bulls told him to or not?

Look. Why don't you count the people that are saying that it's always some one else's fault - or I can save you the trouble and just tell you it's one. And then go count the people telling it's always the people saying it's someone else's fault.

I really wanted Lauri to succeed but it was all over when he had the first child. I guess some other Finns saw the reality show Maria Veitola in his house years ago. The writing was on the wall back then. Lauri never prioritized basketball in a way it would have been necessary. I am going to get flamed by my fellow Finns again, but I will live - Lauri made very stupid decisions in his life as far as NBA is concerned. They might be great otherwise, but who cares in a Bulls forum? Not only did he give the keys to his life to his wife that makes him do mundane house work for equality's sake, he listened to mediocre (which in fact considering it is Finland is flattering them) BB people like Dettmann and his dad instead of Bulls. The End. See you in Europe, Lauri. It would have been great to have a Finn actually do something in the NBA.

I never was much of a BB fan before all this though. So I do have that to be thankful of Lauri. Following Bulls and NBA has been great and I expect to be doing that long after Lauri is gone.

If it was just one person this thread wouldn't be at 80 plus pages and counting. You can look through the first 10 pages of this thread and see that it's been multiple people.

[GoBlue72391]

Wait, are you saying Lauri and his wife had a reality TV show? I’m not sure I understand part of your post.

No, sorry. They were featured in a reality where a person Maria Veitola visits people in their homes for a time. She was with them in Chicago.

I'm confused. Who is this person that visited his house and why/how is that in any way notable and relevant to his basketball career? The having children and doing chores around the house is a nonstarter for me too. Plenty of athletes are dads and husbands.

What about the many athletes who go out to clubs every night, get wasted, and stay out til like 5am and still contribute at elite levels? I think Lauri can balance the basic duties of being a husband/father with being a professional basketball player. This isn't some outlandish weight on his shoulders. This just sounds like reaching for excuses or explanations for Lauri not meeting expectations.

The truth is it's all mental with him. If he had consistently played the way he did during the first half of the Suns game he would probably be an all star by now, we probably would have never traded for Vuch, and we definitely wouldn't be having this conversation right now.

He's still young and I've always felt like young players with potential are given up on far too early these days. I think he'll figure it out eventually. I just don't think it will be in Chicago, unfortunately.

Sent from my SM-S115DL using RealGM mobile app

[Jiipee84]

Wait, are you saying Lauri and his wife had a reality TV show? I’m not sure I understand part of your post.

EDIT: Never mind. I looked it up.

Maria Veitola is Finnish TV reporter who hosts hers own TV show.
In that show Mrs Veitola visits Finnish celebrities homes and she was a visit in Lauri's home couple years ago.
That was that TV thing which Sami71 mentioned.
Did you now understand what that TV talk was ?

Edit
That Maria Veitola's TV show is available and viewable only in Finland
so you cannot watch it because it probably is Geo-blocked outside of Finland.

[Jiipee84]

I've watched Lauri's playing 4 seasons now and still i don't see any development or progress in his game.
Yes some team will pay for Lauri but how much and how long.

But the fact is that if / when Lauri still is injury-prone or liability in defense when he's UFA then he'll be out of league.
This contract what Lauri will get this summer is his last chance in NBA.

And if he fails then goodbye NBA for Lauri and good-luck to Euroleague / Europe.
Markkanen is mediocre and overhyped player who's not reached those expectations what 7th overall pick in 2017 NBA draft set him.

Yes Markkanen was all rookie 1st team selection and is still holding 100 three pointers faster record in NBA.
But i think those achievements fooled Bulls fans and all NBA / basketball fans in Finland and USA.

Personally i think these last 2 two seasons ( 2019- 2021 ) in Bulls have exposed Lauri's weaknesses as a NBA player
and his real talent level so it isn't a surprise why all peoples are disappointed.

Edit
And one Easter joke for the end.

What common is Lauri Markkanen and Patrik Laine ( Finnish NHL hockey player ) ?
Answer both can't develop himself and are overhyped and overrated.
Haha haha haha
Happy Easter.

[chefo]

Lauri's completely checked out mentally. Just chilling in the corner all night, waiting for the season to be over.

As a Bulls fan, it sucks royally that we pissed away his talent. Can't believe his Bulls career will end with such a whimper, after it started with such a bang. Comes to show you, motivation, confidence and mindset matter a lot--it is the only difference between a guy who was averaging 20 just 10 games ago and a dude who just took 5 shot and scored 5.

Talent is the same.

Whatever he needed, whether a shrink, or Tony Robbins, or a yoga instructor, or a nanny, or a chef, he should have gotten it over the last 4 years. From the team or by himself. And Boylen can go to hell for breaking the spirit of both our young promising bigs last year. Effin' idiot. Hope he rots in middle school ball till his last coaching day after that stint with us.

[PaKii94]

I really really want Lauri to sign in miami next season. Make it easy for me to root for another team.

[ch434355]

Lauri's completely checked out mentally. Just chilling in the corner all night, waiting for the season to be over.

As a Bulls fan, it sucks royally that we pissed away his talent. Can't believe his Bulls career will end with such a whimper, after it started with such a bang. Comes to show you, motivation, confidence and mindset matter a lot--it is the only difference between a guy who was averaging 20 just 10 games ago and a dude who just took 5 shot and scored 5.

Talent is the same.

Whatever he needed, whether a shrink, or Tony Robbins, or a yoga instructor, or a nanny, or a chef, he should have gotten it over the last 4 years. From the team or by himself. And Boylen can go to hell for breaking the spirit of both our young promising bigs last year. Effin' idiot. Hope he rots in middle school ball till his last coaching day after that stint with us.

Or maybe.... just maybe... he isn't good, and was never going to be.

[GrowingHorns]

I think Lauri is with the team just for insurance reasons at this point. Bulls weren't joking about the playoffs push, so if someone has issues he will be next in the line to fill in. I would rather had seen Bulls get a better return for him than it will be now, than keep him at this role. We won't be competing well nevertheless, not yet. I am not so confident with AKME anymore, but also, I am worried about Lauri as well. I don't think he can offer much with his current role, so bad decisions from FO imo. Can't wait for both him and the Bulls that their going their own ways. It's better for both.

[tedwilliams1999]

Yeah I mean at this point in his career no one really doubts Lauri's offensive talent, but the only thing he has been consistent at is being inconsistent. We've given him ample opportunity to shine, and he hasn't been able to bring it for sustained periods for whatever reason. Now with this new look roster, he's no longer being put in a proper position to succeed, nor does he deserve to have a line up catered to him.

I do think he'll be a successful role player on a team that can better handle his defensive deficiencies, but it certainly won't be on this present iteration of the Bulls. We have a log jam now at the forward and center spots, and Lauri is 4th in line after Vuc, Young, and Theis. You likely could throw Williams into that mix too, as he's a simpler fit at the 4 next to Vuc than Lauri is.

From this point forward I'd only stick with Lauri for spot minutes game to game, riding him if he's hot and giving him a short hook if he's not.

[WindyCityBorn]

I really really want Lauri to sign in miami next season. Make it easy for me to root for another team.

So you are a Lauri fan not a Bulls fan? Not surprising.

[WindyCityBorn]

Yeah I mean at this point in his career no one really doubts Lauri's offensive talent, but the only thing he has been consistent at is being inconsistent. We've given him ample opportunity to shine, and he hasn't been able to bring it for sustained periods for whatever reason. Now with this new look roster, he's no longer being put in a proper position to succeed, nor does he deserve to have a line up catered to him.

I do think he'll be a successful role player on a team that can better handle his defensive deficiencies, but it certainly won't be on this present iteration of the Bulls. We have a log jam now at the forward and center spots, and Lauri is 4th in line after Vuc, Young, and Theis. You likely could throw Williams into that mix too, as he's a simpler fit at the 4 next to Vuc than Lauri is.

From this point forward I'd only stick with Lauri for spot minutes game to game, riding him if he's hot and giving him a short hook if he's not.

I doubt his offensive talent. His only skills are inconsistent shooting and awkward drives.

[Louri]

Bulls has now made it clear that Lauri is not part of their future plan. Zero reason for Lauri to try anymore. It's better for him to be ghost at 3p line and take it easy than get injured trying hard. He knows it, agent knows it. It would just get him few more points to his own statline. It will be fun off-season to see how much his value will be and will he walk away for free.

I'm quite sure that they really tried to push for Ball-Markkanen swap. It would have been second main puzzle piece with Vucevic trade. It didn't work out and Bulls is stuck with Lauri and Sato as their main PG.