OT: COVID-19 thread #2

[Dresden]

]We didn't pay for anything in the Iran deal, other than the share we contribute to the IAEA. The money we gave to Iran was their own money, that we had put a freeze on at some point. This is a big deception foisted on the American public by right wing media that we "paid" Iran billions of dollars to enter into this deal. That was never our money.

And yes, we did have to be involved in that deal since it was the US that was spearheading the economic sanctions that Iran was so desperate to have lifted.

That's right frozen assets. To be honest I kinda lost track of the entire deal. Anyway we can always go back to the deal if need be. The foundation is in place and other countries still supporting it so it's not a big deal. Least of our worries.

No, it's not at the top of the list of worries, but it is a prime example of why having a vindictive moron like Trump in charge is so harmful, and why there are actually practical differences of fair importance between he and Biden.

[_txchilibowl_]

Interesting moment at today's Corona Task Force Briefing. After Pence said that the most important thing people can do right now is to follow the advice of local officials, he was asked by a reporter why, then, did the president hold his campaign rally in Tulsa, when local health officials there were telling them it was a bad idea.

What was his response? I didn't get a chance to see it.

[Dresden]

Interesting moment at today's Corona Task Force Briefing. After Pence said that the most important thing people can do right now is to follow the advice of local officials, he was asked by a reporter why, then, did the president hold his campaign rally in Tulsa, when local health officials there were telling them it was a bad idea.

What was his response? I didn't get a chance to see it.

He went into a spiel about how there is freedom of speech and assembly in this county and it's people's rights to gather and participate in the political process if they chose to do so. And then he left the stage without taking any follow up questions.

[dice]

The Democratic party's goal is to ultimately give the minority population just enough to get by, but keep them enslaved to the system in place with no opportunity to advance.

The Republican party takes a more harsher idealistic approach, and wants to pull the support rug out from the feet, and treat everyone as equals accepting there will be both be success stories, and also failures.

Whether or not these idealistic views are even possible, is anyone's guess,

I’m not sure that has ever really played out in reality. In my lifetime, Democrats have supported expanded social security, universal healthcare access, paid maternity/paternity leave, paid medical leave, and increased minimum wage. These are all things that would help those at the lower rungs of the ladder move up.

Republicans have been against same-sex marriage, for voter ID laws, for the War on Drugs, for private prison industry, and for discrimination based on pre-existing conditions.

These don’t seem like treating people as “equals” it seems more like codifying “winners” and “losers”. The real question is if Republicans care so much about racial equality, why don’t black folks support them in any significant numbers? Why did all the admitted KKK and neo-Nazi sympathizers support Trump? https://www.nationalmemo.com/an-extremely-partial-list-of-white-supremacists-who-support-donald-trump

If your theory were true, wouldn’t they actually support Democrats?

hell, the only evidence you need of which party is promoting equality for minorities is recognize which one supports affirmative action. there's no way to spin that as a method of keeping blacks enslaved

[dice]

wau,really? Type in Google or Youtube - Biden child molester and you will find bunch of videos of that freak touching and smelling kids like candy..

you are gravely insulting children who have actually been molested and should be ashamed of yourself

you probably believed the pizzagate conspiracy theory, didn't ya? maybe still do

Wtf, conspiracy theory??? If you dont believe pizzagate is real, you are clueless as you can be. Jeez! Cant believe you said that. You cant be so blindsided sheep, cant you?

first of all, a conspiracy theory can be true. secondly...

so you and playerup both believe the theory that hillary clinton, john podesta and other democrats were running a child sex trafficking ring and meeting place for satanic ritual abuse in the basement of a DC pizza parlor...that doesn't have a basement

real geniuses, the two of you. was law enforcement in on the scheme? republican politicians too? 'cause surely such a rumor would have been looked into if it had any semblance of validity. wholly implausible

edgar welch, 28 year old father of two, entered said pizzeria to "investigate." armed with an assault rifle. he fired a shot and pointed the weapon at an employee before being talked down

the business received hundreds of additional threats. "a vicious web of lies. from this insane, fabricated conspiracy theory, we've come under constant assault. i've done nothing for days but try to clean this up and protect my staff and friends from being terrorized" - owner james alefantis. nearby restaurants also received threats, as did others in different cities

"i really have no regrets and it's honestly really grown our audience" - stefanie macwilliams, who promoted the bizarre theory on planet free will

9% of those polled after the election believed the theory, w/ an additional 19% "not sure"

for those who don't know, the genesis of the theory was a white supremacist twitter account purportedly run by a lawyer ("david goldberg") and dropped right before the 2016 election. supposedly the nypd discovered the operation through anthony weiner's emails (the perfect bogeyman!). it was spread through fake news websites like infowars (alex jones) and, of course, reddit, 4chan and 8chan. some of the most frequent retweeters were bots. most prominent believer? andrew bogut. yes, that andrew bogut. also the son of michael flynn (the "lock her up" cheerleader who himself was later convicted of lying to the fbi), who was forced off of trump's transition team because of his public stance about the theory. the theory retains validity in online circles (particularly on tiktok ) with the suggestion that welch was part of a false flag operation

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/anatomy-of-a-fake-news-scandal-125877/

[dice]

new zealand crushes COVID (in fall/early winter!), packs 43,000 into stadium for rugby match:



-four phases of relatively harsh lockdown, fully lifted only after no remaining active cases in the entire country
-seeking and relying on the best available data
-china travel ban on feb. 2 w/ 14 day self-isolation requirement for returning citizens
-widespread testing
-subsidies for badly hurt businesses
-nearly $10,000 in government stimulus checks over 16 weeks for every affected full-time worker
-84% approval of government response

this is what real leadership looks like:

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/04/jacinda-ardern-new-zealand-leadership-coronavirus/610237/

and what an apolitical response to a pandemic looks like

[dice]

-EU to lift restrictions on foreigners entering on july 1...but not for americans
-as new cases surpass previous highs from early in pandemic, number of tests once again failing to meet demand, including for businesses trying to reopen and testing returning employees

-trump decides to close many federal testing centers
-john bolton says it's "very substantially the case" that trump botched the early response to the pandemic because he didn't want to harm the possibility of a trade deal w/ china. and so he didn't want to hear anything about a china coverup. there was "an empty chair in the oval office"

-russian hackers targeting employees using corporate network from home w/ ransomware

[Dresden]

-EU to lift restrictions on foreigners entering on july 1...but not for americans
-as new cases surpass previous highs from early in pandemic, number of tests once again failing to meet demand, including for businesses trying to reopen and testing returning employees

-trump decides to close many federal testing centers
-john bolton says it's "very substantially the case" that trump botched the early response to the pandemic because he didn't want to harm the possibility of a trade deal w/ china. and so he didn't want to hear anything about a china coverup. there was "an empty chair in the oval office"

-russian hackers targeting employees using corporate network from home w/ ransomware

The graphs showing US cases v. EU cases over the past 3 months is eye opening. They peaked first, we followed closely behind. They then quickly plummeted, while we plateau'd, and now, they are at almost nothing, while we are setting new daily highs.

I don't just blame our govt. It's also a question of individual responsibility, and a willingness to believe in the science. Also, if the govt had done a better job of making sure people were taken care of financially, the rush to re-open wouldn't have been so urgent.

[dice]

-EU to lift restrictions on foreigners entering on july 1...but not for americans
-as new cases surpass previous highs from early in pandemic, number of tests once again failing to meet demand, including for businesses trying to reopen and testing returning employees

-trump decides to close many federal testing centers
-john bolton says it's "very substantially the case" that trump botched the early response to the pandemic because he didn't want to harm the possibility of a trade deal w/ china. and so he didn't want to hear anything about a china coverup. there was "an empty chair in the oval office"

-russian hackers targeting employees using corporate network from home w/ ransomware

The graphs showing US cases v. EU cases over the past 3 months is eye opening. They peaked first, we followed closely behind. They then quickly plummeted, while we plateau'd, and now, they are at almost nothing, while we are setting new daily highs.

yep

I don't just blame our govt. It's also a question of individual responsibility, and a willingness to believe in the science.

but americans are not inherently less individually responsible. they take their cues from government officals who are supposed to have the public's best interests in mind. so when those officials don't wear masks or don't show confidence in the science...

Also, if the govt had done a better job of making sure people were taken care of financially, the rush to re-open wouldn't have been so urgent.

agreed. but let's not discount the urgency of the elites getting their minions back to work. so there's also a business pressure on governors. as i said at the beginning of this, the governors, both republican and to a lesser extent democratic, would err on the side of big business when determining when to reopen. and we're seeing the results of that with case numbers going back up hard, mainly in red states

[PlayerUp]

I don't just blame our govt. It's also a question of individual responsibility, and a willingness to believe in the science. Also, if the govt had done a better job of making sure people were taken care of financially, the rush to re-open wouldn't have been so urgent.

Americans in general are stubborn and spoiled.

[PlayerUp]

No, it's not at the top of the list of worries, but it is a prime example of why having a vindictive moron like Trump in charge is so harmful, and why there are actually practical differences of fair importance between he and Biden.

He isn't a moron, he knows exactly what he is doing. Harmful definitely. A good leader is one who can unite both sides and meet in the middle in terms of policies. I don't agree with Trumps dismantling of Obamas policies and agreements either but the Iran deal wasn't a huge issue. US can always return to the deal if they want as the foundation is in place. Paris Agreement is one that we should have stayed in. NAFTA on the other hand retooling that agreement was a solid move.

[Dresden]

Also, if the govt had done a better job of making sure people were taken care of financially, the rush to re-open wouldn't have been so urgent.

agreed. but let's not discount the urgency of the elites getting their minions back to work. so there's also a business pressure on governors. as i said at the beginning of this, the governors, both republican and to a lesser extent democratic, would err on the side of big business when determining when to reopen. and we're seeing the results of that with case numbers going back up hard, mainly in red states

I think there are also a lot of small businesses that are putting pressure on govt. officials to get things opened again. People who own restaurants, barber shops, small retail shops, bars, tour operators, bowling alleys, etc., etc.- all of these people have had their livelihoods taken from them, and I've heard many of them say things like "c'mon, at some point, we have to get things going again or you're going to have an even bigger problem". The financial pressure makes them willing to take risks.

[moorhosj]

Cyberpunk will save 2020.

Please do not jinx this game by hyping it up.

Top youtubers reported yesterday they played 5 hours of the game and it was mind bogging how amazing the game was. They were overwelmed.

Stop. It.

[dice]

Also, if the govt had done a better job of making sure people were taken care of financially, the rush to re-open wouldn't have been so urgent.

agreed. but let's not discount the urgency of the elites getting their minions back to work. so there's also a business pressure on governors. as i said at the beginning of this, the governors, both republican and to a lesser extent democratic, would err on the side of big business when determining when to reopen. and we're seeing the results of that with case numbers going back up hard, mainly in red states

I think there are also a lot of small businesses that are putting pressure on govt. officials to get things opened again. People who own restaurants, barber shops, small retail shops, bars, tour operators, bowling alleys, etc., etc.- all of these people have had their livelihoods taken from them, and I've heard many of them say things like "c'mon, at some point, we have to get things going again or you're going to have an even bigger problem". The financial pressure makes them willing to take risks.

yeah. not only is there some genuine concern for such people (as well for as the worker bees just trying to get by), but it's the prevailing political narrative as well, which i'm sure in part has been crafted by big business

[Dresden]

A study by Chase Bank suggest a correlation between spikes in infection with how often their credit card users are going to restaurants- either to pick up to go orders, or to dine in. Purchasing in person at restaurants is more indicative of infections than is making purchases at grocery stores.

We have a lot of outdoor dining in SF now, and most of the seating arrangements I've seen to do not provide for a 6' distance between patrons. And of course people do not wear masks while eating.

[transplant]

I blame the current administration for the woefully slow start our country had in response to the Covid-19 pandemic. I don't blame them so much for the Covid situation we face right now. They haven't helped and they haven't provided a good outward example, but advice on the right behaviors is readily available and at some point, we have to expect that individuals will do what's right. I blame each person who willfully ignores the best medical advice for whatever stupid reason they may have to do so.

[Dresden]

I blame the current administration for the woefully slow start our country had in response to the Covid-19 pandemic. I don't blame them so much for the Covid situation we face right now. They haven't helped and they haven't provided a good outward example, but advice on the right behaviors is readily available and at some point, we have to expect that individuals will do what's right. I blame each person who willfully ignores the best medical advice for whatever stupid reason they may have to do so.

Bingo. All these people who refuse to wear masks in situations where they are in close contact with others- they've told over and over again. It's a shame that Trump has turned this into a political litmus test- I think if he had come out and encouraged mask wearing, who knows, it might have saved thousands of lives before it's all over.

[dice]

I blame the current administration for the woefully slow start our country had in response to the Covid-19 pandemic. I don't blame them so much for the Covid situation we face right now. They haven't helped and they haven't provided a good outward example, but advice on the right behaviors is readily available and at some point, we have to expect that individuals will do what's right. I blame each person who willfully ignores the best medical advice for whatever stupid reason they may have to do so.

agreed EXCEPT that the leader of the free world is now pretending that the problem no longer exists (even making fun of it). and his stance gave states cover to open too early

[wolffy]

Imo this lands at the feet of the GOP. We have conditioned half our nation to think theres a conspiracy behind everything. The party represents anti science that has its roots in the climate change front. Its has an anti education bias that it has uses to rally uneducated people and tell them that their educated neighbors are liberal brainwashed elites that look down on them. They are anti govt, anti hollywood(aka anti anyone famous trying to use their position to advocate change, anti media, anti science pops its head up again with vaccines, fask masks, social distancing. its all at the feet of the GOP. They are sowing this distrust so that they can get people to deny anything that doesnt benefit big energy, wall street, or big bisiness.

[Dresden]

Imo this lands at the feet of the GOP. We have conditioned half our nation to think theres a conspiracy behind everything. The party represents anti science that has its roots in the climate change front. Its has an anti education bias that it has uses to rally uneducated people and tell them that their educated neighbors are liberal brainwashed elites that look down on them. They are anti govt, anti hollywood(aka anti anyone famous trying to use their position to advocate change, anti media, anti science pops its head up again with vaccines, fask masks, social distancing. its all at the feet of the GOP. They are sowing this distrust so that they can get people to deny anything that doesnt benefit big energy, wall street, or big bisiness.

I agree with this. There has been a war on science by the GOP for some time now, and this pandemic is finally a circumstance in which it is having very real effects. Maybe this will change some people's minds about going along with the Trump/Evangelical fantasy world.