Yahoo Sports. Bulls new GM to be person of color

[P.C.]

Well given that there were only 2 people in the past 17 years, that argument doesn't hold much weight. If you're including all basketball ops, then Randy Brown was assistant general manager, which would be the role beneath GM for 4 years between 2013 and 2017.

That's incorrect. Randy Brown was a Special Assistant to Gar Forman between 2010-2013 (a role that from all accounts is fairly honorary) and then was an Assistant GM for one season before joining Hoiberg's coaching staff. But even so, being able to name one person isn't impressive. The overall point stands --- there hasn't been diversity in the front office. Posters keep asking for a number of what's acceptable, but I think we can all agree (or judging by this thread, maybe we can't) that there haven't been too many minorities in decision making roles with the Bulls.

Was just getting the info from his wikipedia page after looking at the Bulls staff directory on realgm. You very well may be right, because the page just said promoted to assistant GM from 2013 and mentioned him leaving in 2017, so I assumed to fill in the gap as nothing had changed, but I can see why it isn't a hot page to edit.

RealGM only had 4 total assistant GMs listed. Polk and Brown were two of the four. I'm not sure if realgm's info is just not fully up to date (it was pretty extensive) or if the Bulls have literally only ever had four assistant GMs and only three prior to hiring Polk.

I think it's probably the case that up until very recently, the front office of most places was extremely small and it wasn't common to have all these different roles. The growth of complexity of the salary cap and increasing use of analytics has probably made people create more departments.

Either way, they aren't 0-17 unless you are only counting 2 people in that list, so you should stop saying they are. It'd also be interesting to look at just how many people are even in this grouping. Maybe Collins is worth counting, but if you're going to count guys like Jim Paxson, then you might as well count guys like Pippen, Grant, and Love in there roles.

The Bulls have clearly been really, really deep in staying within their network historically. Almost everyone they hire has connections to the organization in the past.

Jim Paxson was director of basketball operations and then director of pro personnel for the Bulls. Scottie and Horace were brand ambassadors. It’s a real reach to claim that if we count Jim Paxson as a scout, we also have to count Grant and Pippen. Directors of basketball operations scout; brand ambassadors do not. This is a weird hill to die on.

[HomoSapien]

Yeah, I mean it's 2020 and we've had one black head coach and 0 GMs/presidents. It's just discouraging no matter how you slice it, and we should all want the Bulls to do better here. For all the flack Krause got about being racist (no cornrows, Mr. Miles), he was the one who hired BJ and Cartwright.

There have been 3 total GM/EVPs since Reinsdorf bought the team (4 if you count AK). This is one of those things where the way you are stating it makes it sound radically more explosive than it is.

How? These numbers are facts. At what number are people allowed to criticize the lack of diversity, especially considering these jobs tend to last for decades? Additionally, the way we've hired coaches - Hoiberg, Boylen, Skiles I believe were hired without any other candidates being interviewed and Del Negro (who beat out the more qualified Casey and Avery Johnson) and Hoiberg weren't exceptionally qualified candidates. This is what I mean when I say it appears that the Bulls have a blindspot when considering diverse candidates for leading roles.

[2018C3]

I'm reluctant to post this but looked up some numbers out of curiosity. (Please read all the way through before coming to a conclusion).

In 2016 there was a article posted that said since 2010, 30 front office positions became available in that time span, and out of those 30 positions, six of those hires were black. In that 6 year span that means 20% of all front office hires were black, while blacks made up about 13% of the overall US population.

(I could not find a article with more current stats and did not want to try and crunch all the numbers myself).

In the last 2010 U.S Census, this is the makeup of America for Self-identified race
White 72.4%
Hispanic and Latino Americans (of any race) 16.3%
Black or African American 12.6%
Asian 4.8%
Native Americans and Alaska Natives 0.9%
Native Hawaiians and Other Pacific Islanders 0.2%
Two or more races 2.9%
Other 6.2%

So if you look at just these numbers and everything was fair, since 2010 blacks would hold 12.6% of all new NBA front office jobs. We all know that things were not always fair for every race, but hopefully progress is being made.

There are other ways to look at all this though. If you consider how many front office employees are past players, and that 74.4 percent of players are Black, it seems past white players are severely over represented in front office positions. One thing is clear, being a past white nba or college player gives you a huge advantage at these limited job opportunities over anyone else.

[JimmyButler21]

This would be bad

Read on Twitter

[Dominator83]

This would be bad

Read on Twitter

Dell Demps is a freakin horrid GM. Hes makes Gar/pax look like Jerry West

[HomoSapien]

McGraw means well and is a good journalist but he never breaks any news.

[cjbulls]

Yeah, I mean it's 2020 and we've had one black head coach and 0 GMs/presidents. It's just discouraging no matter how you slice it, and we should all want the Bulls to do better here. For all the flack Krause got about being racist (no cornrows, Mr. Miles), he was the one who hired BJ and Cartwright.

There have been 3 total GM/EVPs since Reinsdorf bought the team (4 if you count AK). This is one of those things where the way you are stating it makes it sound radically more explosive than it is.

How? These numbers are facts. At what number are people allowed to criticize the lack of diversity, especially considering these jobs tend to last for decades? Additionally, the way we've hired coaches - Hoiberg, Boylen, Skiles I believe were hired without any other candidates being interviewed and Del Negro (who beat out the more qualified Casey and Avery Johnson) and Hoiberg weren't exceptionally qualified candidates. This is what I mean when I say it appears that the Bulls have a blindspot when considering diverse candidates for leading roles.

If they interviewed multiple black candidates (Casey and Avery) and picked a white candidate (Del Negro), and hired a black candidate two coaching positions before (Cartwright), does that mean they have a blind spot for diversity?

[SHO'NUFF]

Imagine Dell Demps as our GM wIth Anthony Davis as a FA.

[cjbulls]

Imagine Dell Demps as our GM wIth Anthony Davis as a FA.

Didn’t Davis want to get away from Demps?

[SHO'NUFF]

Imagine Dell Demps as our GM wIth Anthony Davis as a FA.

Didn’t Davis want to get away from Demps?

Exactly.

[MrFortune3]

This would be bad

Read on Twitter

Child please.

[Grodoboldo]

McGraw means well and is a good journalist but he never breaks any news.

The way he seems lenient on Forman makes me think that he is (was?) one of his main sources, so he may be even less reliable from now on.

Also, thanks, but no thanks, on Demps.

[Dominator83]

Hiring Dell Demps would be a great way to kill all the buzz we've been getting to enjoy. This guy is the worst possible candidate there is besides maybe Billy King. I mean, we all complained about them interviewing Ferry or BC, but atleast those guys HAD built some good teams in the past. Even Pax and Gar have built good teams in the past. Demps was gifted AD and did squat with him, even when he was on his 4 year bargain rookie deal.

I want some new blood like Shane Battier, maybe Nazi Mohammed. I'm fine with the main 4 guys on the list that came out yesterday minus maybe Lloyd since I'm not impressed with his job in Orlando. But if it's gonna be Demps, I would rather keep Pax. And that says a lot.

[dougthonus]

How? These numbers are facts. At what number are people allowed to criticize the lack of diversity, especially considering these jobs tend to last for decades?

How many people count in your mind, in this no blacks in 17 years? As I said, based on Brown being assistant GM, it would seem only 2. John Paxson and Gar Forman.

If it is only those 2, and you don't see how saying no one in 17 years makes it look a lot more damning than saying neither of the 2 guys in that position for 17 years were black, then I don't know what to tell you.

If it's more than those 2, then there's literally no reason not count Brown given he held the role directly beneath these guys. Shawn Respert is another person of color with a director title within basketball organization (director of player development) which is a similar level to Jim Paxson whom you named previously.

I'm not saying the Bulls have been at the forefront of minority hiring or couldn't have done better, but it seems like you are manipulating statistics to oversell your point or haven't actually researched it.

In 17 years, name every hire you think actually counts in this criteria of no one in 17 years criteria? Clearly you know who they all are to make such a claim right?

Additionally, the way we've hired coaches - Hoiberg, Boylen, Skiles I believe were hired without any other candidates being interviewed and Del Negro (who beat out the more qualified Casey and Avery Johnson) and Hoiberg weren't exceptionally qualified candidates. This is what I mean when I say it appears that the Bulls have a blindspot when considering diverse candidates for leading roles.

Agree their head coaching hiring process has been awful. Even if you view Skiles/Thibs as hits, it feels like they got lucky on the hits rather than had a good process. They more or less decided who they wanted before doing anything. In addition to race potentially being a specific blind spot there or not, their whole process has been a blindspot on coaching hires.

[dougthonus]

I want some new blood like Shane Battier, maybe Nazi Mohammed. I'm fine with the main 4 guys on the list that came out yesterday minus maybe Lloyd since I'm not impressed with his job in Orlando. But if it's gonna be Demps, I would rather keep Pax. And that says a lot.

Lloyd was a superstar in Chicago previously and was a big part of a lot of their successful picks. That's why they'll look at him. Whether that merits them looking at him or not is another question.

[dougthonus]

Jim Paxson was director of basketball operations and then director of pro personnel for the Bulls. Scottie and Horace were brand ambassadors. It’s a real reach to claim that if we count Jim Paxson as a scout, we also have to count Grant and Pippen. Directors of basketball operations scout; brand ambassadors do not. This is a weird hill to die on.

Jim Paxson wasn't in a critical, influential role in the organization, or at least there's never been any evidence he is. You could count Shawn Respert then (director of player development) then inside the basketball org as another "director" level title.

[Dominator83]

I want some new blood like Shane Battier, maybe Nazi Mohammed. I'm fine with the main 4 guys on the list that came out yesterday minus maybe Lloyd since I'm not impressed with his job in Orlando. But if it's gonna be Demps, I would rather keep Pax. And that says a lot.

Lloyd was a superstar in Chicago previously and was a big part of a lot of their successful picks. That's why they'll look at him. Whether that merits them looking at him or not is another question.

Yea it does seem like the drafting here has gone to crap since he's left here. But Orlandos hasn't been very good since he's got there either. So he's either lost his touch, or for some reason isn't making the picks

[thedarkstark]

Jesus christ we live in such cowardly world, stop pandering and just give the job to the person that has earned it. The irony in all of it is that hiring somebody based solely on the color of their skin is just about the most racist thing you can possibly do.

Left wing goal post shifting at its finest, trash like this make me ashamed to consider myself liberal.

[drosereturn]

AK made a bad mistake on this one. He tried to placate the other candidates who were livid they were just brought in the interview but choosing someone based on skin color is kind of ridiculous more than women over men just because they are underrepresented.

[Peelboy]

How? These numbers are facts. At what number are people allowed to criticize the lack of diversity, especially considering these jobs tend to last for decades?

How many people count in your mind, in this no blacks in 17 years? As I said, based on Brown being assistant GM, it would seem only 2. John Paxson and Gar Forman.

If it is only those 2, and you don't see how saying no one in 17 years makes it look a lot more damning than saying neither of the 2 guys in that position for 17 years were black, then I don't know what to tell you.

If it's more than those 2, then there's literally no reason not count Brown given he held the role directly beneath these guys. Shawn Respert is another person of color with a director title within basketball organization (director of player development) which is a similar level to Jim Paxson whom you named previously.

I'm not saying the Bulls have been at the forefront of minority hiring or couldn't have done better, but it seems like you are manipulating statistics to oversell your point or haven't actually researched it.

In 17 years, name every hire you think actually counts in this criteria of no one in 17 years criteria? Clearly you know who they all are to make such a claim right?

Additionally, the way we've hired coaches - Hoiberg, Boylen, Skiles I believe were hired without any other candidates being interviewed and Del Negro (who beat out the more qualified Casey and Avery Johnson) and Hoiberg weren't exceptionally qualified candidates. This is what I mean when I say it appears that the Bulls have a blindspot when considering diverse candidates for leading roles.

Agree their head coaching hiring process has been awful. Even if you view Skiles/Thibs as hits, it feels like they got lucky on the hits rather than had a good process. They more or less decided who they wanted before doing anything. In addition to race potentially being a specific blind spot there or not, their whole process has been a blindspot on coaching hires.

Let me add that IMO important context is that the same owner/boss over this extended period has the Sox which had one of the first minority VPs and multiple minorities in lead roles for a long time. So either said boss believes it’s important in mlb but not nba , he believes it’s important but was overruled by.....well he’s the boss, he wasn’t paying attention when he himself hired EVP/GMs, or... hear me out....it’s got nothing to do with race and everything to do w small sample size. Call me crazy.