Yahoo Sports. Bulls new GM to be person of color

[dice]

Jesus christ we live in such cowardly world, stop pandering and just give the job to the person that has earned it. The irony in all of it is that hiring somebody based solely on the color of their skin is just about the most racist thing you can possibly do.

Left wing goal post shifting at its finest, trash like this make me ashamed to consider myself liberal.

the BEST black candidate is highly likely to be similarly capable to the best white candidate. that doesn't mean that they shouldn't be also be interviewing white candidates (they should), but it's hardly a case of goal post shifting

nobody will be hired "solely based on the color of their skin." if that were the case, they'd just go out in front of the UC and hire the first black person they see

[dice]

How? These numbers are facts. At what number are people allowed to criticize the lack of diversity, especially considering these jobs tend to last for decades?

How many people count in your mind, in this no blacks in 17 years? As I said, based on Brown being assistant GM, it would seem only 2. John Paxson and Gar Forman.

If it is only those 2, and you don't see how saying no one in 17 years makes it look a lot more damning than saying neither of the 2 guys in that position for 17 years were black, then I don't know what to tell you.

If it's more than those 2, then there's literally no reason not count Brown given he held the role directly beneath these guys. Shawn Respert is another person of color with a director title within basketball organization (director of player development) which is a similar level to Jim Paxson whom you named previously.

I'm not saying the Bulls have been at the forefront of minority hiring or couldn't have done better, but it seems like you are manipulating statistics to oversell your point or haven't actually researched it.

In 17 years, name every hire you think actually counts in this criteria of no one in 17 years criteria? Clearly you know who they all are to make such a claim right?

Additionally, the way we've hired coaches - Hoiberg, Boylen, Skiles I believe were hired without any other candidates being interviewed and Del Negro (who beat out the more qualified Casey and Avery Johnson) and Hoiberg weren't exceptionally qualified candidates. This is what I mean when I say it appears that the Bulls have a blindspot when considering diverse candidates for leading roles.

Agree their head coaching hiring process has been awful. Even if you view Skiles/Thibs as hits, it feels like they got lucky on the hits rather than had a good process. They more or less decided who they wanted before doing anything. In addition to race potentially being a specific blind spot there or not, their whole process has been a blindspot on coaching hires.

Let me add that IMO important context is that the same owner/boss over this extended period has the Sox which had one of the first minority VPs and multiple minorities in lead roles for a long time. So either said boss believes it’s important in mlb but not nba , he believes it’s important but was overruled by.....well he’s the boss, he wasn’t paying attention when he himself hired EVP/GMs, or... hear me out....it’s got nothing to do with race and everything to do w small sample size. Call me crazy.

outstanding point

[Dominator83]

Jesus christ we live in such cowardly world, stop pandering and just give the job to the person that has earned it. The irony in all of it is that hiring somebody based solely on the color of their skin is just about the most racist thing you can possibly do.

Left wing goal post shifting at its finest, trash like this make me ashamed to consider myself liberal.

the BEST black candidate is highly likely to be similarly capable to the best white candidate. that doesn't mean that they shouldn't be also be interviewing white candidates (they should), but it's hardly a case of goal post shifting

nobody will be hired "solely based on the color of their skin." if that were the case, they'd just go out in front of the UC and hire the first black person they see

I'd rather then hire the first black person they see as opposed to Dell Demps

[dice]

Jesus christ we live in such cowardly world, stop pandering and just give the job to the person that has earned it. The irony in all of it is that hiring somebody based solely on the color of their skin is just about the most racist thing you can possibly do.

Left wing goal post shifting at its finest, trash like this make me ashamed to consider myself liberal.

the BEST black candidate is highly likely to be similarly capable to the best white candidate. that doesn't mean that they shouldn't be also be interviewing white candidates (they should), but it's hardly a case of goal post shifting

nobody will be hired "solely based on the color of their skin." if that were the case, they'd just go out in front of the UC and hire the first black person they see

I'd rather then hire the first black person they see as opposed to Dell Demps

meet your new GM:

[HomoSapien]

How many people count in your mind, in this no blacks in 17 years? As I said, based on Brown being assistant GM, it would seem only 2. John Paxson and Gar Forman.

If it is only those 2, and you don't see how saying no one in 17 years makes it look a lot more damning than saying neither of the 2 guys in that position for 17 years were black, then I don't know what to tell you.

If it's more than those 2, then there's literally no reason not count Brown given he held the role directly beneath these guys. Shawn Respert is another person of color with a director title within basketball organization (director of player development) which is a similar level to Jim Paxson whom you named previously.

I'm not saying the Bulls have been at the forefront of minority hiring or couldn't have done better, but it seems like you are manipulating statistics to oversell your point or haven't actually researched it.

In 17 years, name every hire you think actually counts in this criteria of no one in 17 years criteria? Clearly you know who they all are to make such a claim right?



Agree their head coaching hiring process has been awful. Even if you view Skiles/Thibs as hits, it feels like they got lucky on the hits rather than had a good process. They more or less decided who they wanted before doing anything. In addition to race potentially being a specific blind spot there or not, their whole process has been a blindspot on coaching hires.

Let me add that IMO important context is that the same owner/boss over this extended period has the Sox which had one of the first minority VPs and multiple minorities in lead roles for a long time. So either said boss believes it’s important in mlb but not nba , he believes it’s important but was overruled by.....well he’s the boss, he wasn’t paying attention when he himself hired EVP/GMs, or... hear me out....it’s got nothing to do with race and everything to do w small sample size. Call me crazy.

outstanding point

Again, let me reiterate that I’m not accusing Reinsdorf of being racist. I’m saying the organization has had a blind spot when it comes to considering diverse execs/head coaches. And Reinsdorf himself has said that he doesn’t pay attention to the Bulls as much as he should so it’s easy to see why that blindspot may exist.

The Bulls have done a lot behind the scenes that deserves praise. They have a female assistant coach. That hardly ever gets recognized by anyone, and it should. The Bulls have taken care of former players like Pete Myers and given them their first opportunities— that’s awesome. However, while they’re awesome in some respects they could use improvement in others, like diversity. For years it’s been mentioned that the Bulls have one of the smallest front offices in the league. There was nothing stopping one of the wealthiest teams in the league from expanding that FO sooner and ensuring that there was more top level diverse representation. To point out that the Bulls have had little to no diversity in these high level positions isn’t an insult, it’s simply the truth. We should all want this organization to make an effort to make sure there’s proper representation on this team because it simply makes the team better. It’s a shame that so many are bristling at this notion.

[HomoSapien]

There have been 3 total GM/EVPs since Reinsdorf bought the team (4 if you count AK). This is one of those things where the way you are stating it makes it sound radically more explosive than it is.

How? These numbers are facts. At what number are people allowed to criticize the lack of diversity, especially considering these jobs tend to last for decades? Additionally, the way we've hired coaches - Hoiberg, Boylen, Skiles I believe were hired without any other candidates being interviewed and Del Negro (who beat out the more qualified Casey and Avery Johnson) and Hoiberg weren't exceptionally qualified candidates. This is what I mean when I say it appears that the Bulls have a blindspot when considering diverse candidates for leading roles.

If they interviewed multiple black candidates (Casey and Avery) and picked a white candidate (Del Negro), and hired a black candidate two coaching positions before (Cartwright), does that mean they have a blind spot for diversity?

They’ve had one black head coach in the franchise’s 54 year history, so yes, I would say that was a blindspot. Again, not saying this is a racist no blacks allowed franchise, but they seem to be regularly overlooking black candidates for the senior level jobs. They interviewed Casey and Johnson, but they were clearly low on their list because D’Antoni, Collins, and Del Negro all received offers first. I can understand D’Antoni and Collins being ahead, but it’s always been difficult for me to understand why Del Negro beat out Casey. Del Negro had no experience and has never come off as particularly bright. Even during the Hoiberg hire, it confused me why he was seen as such a brilliant young hot shot college coach but Kevin Ollie, who had just won a championship, was getting no attention.

[dice]

How? These numbers are facts. At what number are people allowed to criticize the lack of diversity, especially considering these jobs tend to last for decades? Additionally, the way we've hired coaches - Hoiberg, Boylen, Skiles I believe were hired without any other candidates being interviewed and Del Negro (who beat out the more qualified Casey and Avery Johnson) and Hoiberg weren't exceptionally qualified candidates. This is what I mean when I say it appears that the Bulls have a blindspot when considering diverse candidates for leading roles.

If they interviewed multiple black candidates (Casey and Avery) and picked a white candidate (Del Negro), and hired a black candidate two coaching positions before (Cartwright), does that mean they have a blind spot for diversity?

They’ve had one black head coach in the franchise’s 54 year history, so yes, I would say that was a blindspot. Again, not saying this is a racist no blacks allowed franchise, but they seem to be regularly overlooking black candidates for the senior level jobs. They interviewed Casey and Johnson, but they were clearly low on their list because D’Antoni, Collins, and Del Negro all received offers first. I can understand D’Antoni and Collins being ahead, but it’s always been difficult for me to understand why Del Negro beat our Casey. Del Negro had no experience and has never come off as particularly bright. Even during the Hoiberg hire, it confused me why he was seen as such a brilliant you hot shot college coach but Kevin Ollie, who had just won a championship, was getting no attention.

hoiberg ascended the iowa state program while ollie picked up the ball from calhoun, one year removed from a title

[Dominator83]

How? These numbers are facts. At what number are people allowed to criticize the lack of diversity, especially considering these jobs tend to last for decades? Additionally, the way we've hired coaches - Hoiberg, Boylen, Skiles I believe were hired without any other candidates being interviewed and Del Negro (who beat out the more qualified Casey and Avery Johnson) and Hoiberg weren't exceptionally qualified candidates. This is what I mean when I say it appears that the Bulls have a blindspot when considering diverse candidates for leading roles.

If they interviewed multiple black candidates (Casey and Avery) and picked a white candidate (Del Negro), and hired a black candidate two coaching positions before (Cartwright), does that mean they have a blind spot for diversity?

They’ve had one black head coach in the franchise’s 54 year history, so yes, I would say that was a blindspot. Again, not saying this is a racist no blacks allowed franchise, but they seem to be regularly overlooking black candidates for the senior level jobs. They interviewed Casey and Johnson, but they were clearly low on their list because D’Antoni, Collins, and Del Negro all received offers first. I can understand D’Antoni and Collins being ahead, but it’s always been difficult for me to understand why Del Negro beat out Casey. Del Negro had no experience and has never come off as particularly bright. Even during the Hoiberg hire, it confused me why he was seen as such a brilliant young hot shot college coach but Kevin Ollie, who had just won a championship, was getting no attention.

I'm thinking with the Del Negro thing, was Pax thinking that since Reinsdorf was too cheap to get him D'antoni, he'll go out and get the dollar store version of D'antoni. VDN was in the Suns FO and had the same philosophy of playing fast.

[TheFinishSniper]

OKC exec Troy Weaver turned down interview with Bulls, felt it was a “token offer”


Hehehe. At the end it all worked out for Reinsdorf. Now he doesnt need to hire person of color. And we will actually hire best candidate regardless who he is.

[League Circles]

Bulls also interviewed Tyrone Corbin, Brian Shaw and Chuck Person in 2008 for the HC job.

[cjbulls]

How? These numbers are facts. At what number are people allowed to criticize the lack of diversity, especially considering these jobs tend to last for decades? Additionally, the way we've hired coaches - Hoiberg, Boylen, Skiles I believe were hired without any other candidates being interviewed and Del Negro (who beat out the more qualified Casey and Avery Johnson) and Hoiberg weren't exceptionally qualified candidates. This is what I mean when I say it appears that the Bulls have a blindspot when considering diverse candidates for leading roles.

If they interviewed multiple black candidates (Casey and Avery) and picked a white candidate (Del Negro), and hired a black candidate two coaching positions before (Cartwright), does that mean they have a blind spot for diversity?

They’ve had one black head coach in the franchise’s 54 year history, so yes, I would say that was a blindspot. Again, not saying this is a racist no blacks allowed franchise, but they seem to be regularly overlooking black candidates for the senior level jobs. They interviewed Casey and Johnson, but they were clearly low on their list because D’Antoni, Collins, and Del Negro all received offers first. I can understand D’Antoni and Collins being ahead, but it’s always been difficult for me to understand why Del Negro beat out Casey. Del Negro had no experience and has never come off as particularly bright. Even during the Hoiberg hire, it confused me why he was seen as such a brilliant young hot shot college coach but Kevin Ollie, who had just won a championship, was getting no attention.

I don’t know why you say Org when it’s all different people. The Org of the last 20 years is different from the Org of the prior 15. And the Org before that didn’t even have Reinsdorf. That’s also what makes the criticism now peculiar. This is Michael Reinsdorf first big Exec VP hire, so why are we using the last 54 years to judge him?

Jerry Reinsdorf is the closest constant, and we know he has a preference for the White Sox. Yet the white Sox have hired Jerry Manuel, Ozzie Guillen and Kenny Williams. How do you explain those diverse hires, that Reinsdorf only has a blind spot for basketball?

[Red Larrivee]

OKC exec Troy Weaver turned down interview with Bulls, felt it was a “token offer”


Hehehe. At the end it all worked out for Reinsdorf. Now he doesnt need to hire person of color. And we will actually hire best candidate regardless who he is.

This is such an awful conclusion.

[TheFinishSniper]

OKC exec Troy Weaver turned down interview with Bulls, felt it was a “token offer”


Hehehe. At the end it all worked out for Reinsdorf. Now he doesnt need to hire person of color. And we will actually hire best candidate regardless who he is.

This is such an awful conclusion.

I hate hirings for any other reason than hiring best candidate based on CV and accolades. Race, gender should never matter in hires. I talked about that earlier. Hiring someone for any other reason as main reason for hire is discrimination or in case of race racisim.

Bulls should never be forced to hire person of different color or gender just because they lack by some statistics in key positions either of them. That's why Spears article is bull pun intended. So if person of color decided not to do interview because he was offended and concluded it's token role that's his choice. But dont later complain position wasnt available and different person of different color got a job.

[Red Larrivee]

I hate hirings for any other reason than hiring best candidate based on CV and accolades. Race, gender should never matter in hires. I talked about that earlier. Hiring someone for any other reason as main reason for hire is discrimination or in case of race racisim.

Bulls should never be forced to hire person of different color or gender just because they lack by some statistics in key positions either of them. That's why Spears article is bull pun intended. So if person of color decided not to do interview because he was offended and concluded it's token role that's his choice. But dont later complain position wasnt available and different person of different color got a job.

We're 500+ posts into this thread, and you're still making the same generalization that people are arguing for token hires. Nobody is saying the Bulls need to hire someone entirely because they're a minority.

What people are saying is that the Bulls have a blindspot for adding diverse and qualified talent to their front office. If you're telling me that these executives simply don't exist, then you're kidding yourself.

Not only is this is an issue for the Bulls, but it's an issue for other teams as well. The Marc Spears article isn't fraudulent; it's speaking to a larger point about the NBA and NFL that minorities do not get afforded the opportunities to assume prominent decision-making roles for teams in leagues that are 75-80% black. The NFL has 1 minority general manager out of 32 teams. The NBA has 6 minority eneral managers out of 30 teams, and the number is less for PBOB roles.

So when these jobs open up, how many minorities can be legitimate candidates if they've never been afforded the roles or organizational ascensions that teams look for? How can they be candidates if they're not in these fraternities that teams always depend on? There's levels to this ****, and somehow minorities continue to be on the wrong end of it.

[TheFinishSniper]

We're 500+ posts into this thread, and you're still making the same generalization that people are arguing for token hires. Nobody is saying the Bulls need to hire someone entirely because they're a minority.

What people are saying is that the Bulls have a blindspot for adding diverse and qualified talent to their front office. If you're telling me that these executives simply don't exist, then you're kidding yourself.

Not only is this is an issue for the Bulls, but it's an issue for other teams as well. The Marc Spears article isn't fraudulent; it's speaking to a larger point about the NBA and NFL that minorities do not get afforded the opportunities to assume prominent decision-making roles for teams in leagues that are 75-80% black. The NFL has 1 minority general manager out of 32 teams. The NBA has 6 minority eneral managers out of 30 teams, and the number is less for PBOB roles.

So when these jobs open up, how many minorities can be legitimate candidates if they've never been afforded the roles or organizational ascensions that teams look for? How can they be candidates if they're not in these fraternities that teams always depend on? There's levels to this ****, and somehow minorities continue to be on the wrong end of it.

While this is true. You can't put Bulls as sole and only example of this. But that's what Spears article alludes . You know and I know Bulls hired generally people based on nepotism. Not gender or race or even accolades. That's why we are here where we are now two days in with finally new EVP.

What Spears did is only hurt person of color candidates for now legitimate job opportunity who will be hired by new EVP. As long Bulls fan you should realize by now that Reinsdorf is anything but racist. He is too loyal, cheap and possiblity legit bad owner but racist he isnt.

I can't believe now after 25+ pages we still arguing that this job is token or whatever. But like I said we need hire best candidate because we lack talent in front office. And that should be priority over any other reason of hires. And that's where Spears article is wrong when it comes to discussion about Bulls. He legit robbed person of color candidates opportunity for a job if they took that article as truth.

PS. I dont care about NFL or any other league. Dont care about other 29 teams in NBA. I care only about Bulls. I will always call bull pun intended when it comes to Bulls. But I dont see it in this case. Once again Ill repeat Bulls shouldnt be forced to hire anyone based on race or gender or do quota because ultimately we lack talented people.

[DuckIII]

It should also be reiterated that having black people in recruitment positions is an asset in the NBA. Everyone saying “race shouldn’t matter” seems to be intentionally overlooking this obvious fact.

Diverse workforces matter for bigger societal reasons as well. But if you really, really need convincing that adding black people to NBA executive positions has merit, the reasons are pretty easy to find.

[Red Larrivee]

While this is true. You can't put Bulls as sole and only example of this. But that's what Spears article alludes . You know and I know Bulls hired generally people based on nepotism. Not gender or race or even accolades. That's why we are here where we are and two days now with finally new EVP.

What Spears did is only hurt person of color candidates for now legitimate job opportunity who will be hired by new EVP. As long Bulls fan you should realize by now that Reinsdorf is anything but racist. He is too loyal, cheap and possiblity legit bad owner but racist he isnt.

I can't believe now after 25+ pages we still arguing that this job is token or whatever. But like I said we need hire best candidate because we lack talent in front office. And that should be priority over any other reason of hires. And that's where Spears article is wrong when it comes to discussion about Bulls. He legit robbed person of color candidates opportunity for a job if they took that article as truth.

PS. I dont care about NFL or any other league. Dont care about other 29 teams in NBA. I care only about Bulls. I will always call bull pun intended when it comes to Bulls. But I dont see it in this case.

Re-read my post; I didn't say the Bulls were the only team in the league with this blindspot. This is a league-wide problem and the numbers show it. Marc Spears has wrote different versions of this story for the past 5-6 years. He's interviewed a variety of sources (unnamed and named) throughout those articles. He has as good a beat for this subject as anyone does and is helping advance the conversation.

Nobody is asking for a token hire and NOBODY is calling Jerry or Michael Reinsdorf racist. We are simply saying that there is a blindspot to this issue for the Bulls and other teams. We can call that out without accusing them of racism.

[Red Larrivee]

It should also be reiterated that having black people in recruitment positions is an asset in the NBA. Everyone saying “race shouldn’t matter” seems to be intentionally overlooking this obvious fact.

Diverse workforces matter for bigger societal reasons as well. But if you really, really need convincing that adding black people to NBA executive positions, the reasons are pretty easy to find.

And you already know that current players feel the exact same way.

It's just weird in a conversation like this that when people are pointing out these things, the automatic counter is that "we should just hire the best people for the job and leave it at that." The NBA has been doing that for years now and most of those "best people" are not minorities.

[cjbulls]

It should also be reiterated that having black people in recruitment positions is an asset in the NBA. Everyone saying “race shouldn’t matter” seems to be intentionally overlooking this obvious fact.

Diverse workforces matter for bigger societal reasons as well. But if you really, really need convincing that adding black people to NBA executive positions, the reasons are pretty easy to find.

And you already know that current players feel the exact same way.

It's just weird in a conversation like this that when people are pointing out these things, the automatic counter is that "we should just hire the best people for the job and leave it at that." The NBA has been doing that for years now and most of those "best people" are not minorities.

Players say they feel that way. Then they join the Lakers to play in LA or GS to be in a good team atmosphere.

[dougthonus]

Again, let me reiterate that I’m not accusing Reinsdorf of being racist. I’m saying the organization has had a blind spot when it comes to considering diverse execs/head coaches. And Reinsdorf himself has said that he doesn’t pay attention to the Bulls as much as he should so it’s easy to see why that blindspot may exist.

You are not only saying that it is a blind spot, you are manipulating statistics to make that blind spot appear radically larger than it is.

You said no one in the front office in a senior position has been black for 17 years making it sound like many people have come and gone. However, you are either wrong, because I named a director level person in the FO that was black and an assistant GM that was black in recent history, or you are only counting 2 guys which makes the sample size so small it was a completely worthless and meaningless argument to make and you are purposefully presenting the data in a misleading way.