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OT- The Last Dance documentary

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Re: OT- The Last Dance documentary 

Post#1461 » by Michael Jackson » Fri May 29, 2020 11:56 am

dougthonus wrote:
Michael Jackson wrote:I don’t think Jordan was adverse to drugs but I surely don’t think he was a heavy drug user worth mentioning either. I mean if Jordan took a bump at a party it is nothing like what was going on with the NBA when he came in. My “adopted” father worked security for him and being good at his job as he was he would never share details but you could get pretty broad painted pictures from him. One thing he swore for sure was Jordan’s father case was absolutely not gambling related, and he had good intel on that, being a high profile agent prior to his employment in private security. Now the cigar cutter... well. We all know Jordan is no saint. Clearly he wasn’t but he had a public image to keep up. I can give you some real life examples though of him being a genuinely nice man to people I know too. Did he drink? Yes, Gamble? Yes. Infidelity? Yes. We know all this though. I mean it is also kinda unimportant though because we care about his godlike qualities in the court, not his human attributes off the court.


As I noted, I don't judge Jordan (or any of these guys) for the women/drugs/partying/whatever.

If I were young, good looking, famous, had virtually unlimited money and tons of free time, then I have no idea what I'd do to try and have a good time, but I expect that any of us would constantly be chasing bigger and bigger highs because the bar of 'average' is just so high up there already.



No I agree with everything you said. It is almost unrealistic to assume these guys wouldn’t indulge in that to an extent especially at a young age and it is literally being thrown at them. It also is generally only a little slice of their life.

I think this documentary was a lot of fun. It of course had a lot of Jordan bias, if I had control over it and it was about me and my life I am going to have more highlights than lowlights. I think they touched on enough to keep it human but hardly was this an expose on MJ. As mentioned, what fun really is an expose on MJ? What purpose does that serve anyone really? So overall I was really entertained. I didn’t expect it being anything different than MJ’s career was... polished for the public. That is best for business and for entertainment and they did a good job on that.
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Re: OT- The Last Dance documentary 

Post#1462 » by dougthonus » Fri May 29, 2020 12:00 pm

Michael Jackson wrote:I think this documentary was a lot of fun. It of course had a lot of Jordan bias, if I had control over it and it was about me and my life I am going to have more highlights than lowlights. I think they touched on enough to keep it human but hardly was this an expose on MJ. As mentioned, what fun really is an expose on MJ? What purpose does that serve anyone really? So overall I was really entertained. I didn’t expect it being anything different than MJ’s career was... polished for the public. That is best for business and for entertainment and they did a good job on that.


I think you're absolutely right. It's important to remember that this is made for a general audience as well. For Bulls fans that are hyper in the know already, it glosses over some stuff and may leave some room for complaints. For people only casually (or not at all) aware of the Bulls dynasty it provides a ton of depth and interest.

I expect all the 30/30 episodes I watch and other stories are pretty similar in their depth of coverage in a lot of respects. They all have a slant based on the producer, but I don't know the slant because I'm not an expert on the topic already like I am on the Bulls.
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Re: OT- The Last Dance documentary 

Post#1463 » by wickywack » Fri May 29, 2020 9:01 pm

dougthonus wrote:
Michael Jackson wrote:I think this documentary was a lot of fun. It of course had a lot of Jordan bias, if I had control over it and it was about me and my life I am going to have more highlights than lowlights. I think they touched on enough to keep it human but hardly was this an expose on MJ. As mentioned, what fun really is an expose on MJ? What purpose does that serve anyone really? So overall I was really entertained. I didn’t expect it being anything different than MJ’s career was... polished for the public. That is best for business and for entertainment and they did a good job on that.


I think you're absolutely right. It's important to remember that this is made for a general audience as well. For Bulls fans that are hyper in the know already, it glosses over some stuff and may leave some room for complaints. For people only casually (or not at all) aware of the Bulls dynasty it provides a ton of depth and interest.

I expect all the 30/30 episodes I watch and other stories are pretty similar in their depth of coverage in a lot of respects. They all have a slant based on the producer, but I don't know the slant because I'm not an expert on the topic already like I am on the Bulls.


Honestly, even as Bulls fan, I wasn't left wanting for sordid details on Jordan's personal life. I'm just not all that interested. On the other hand, I'd have loved more time on Kukoc or Harper or Longley or Tex Winter.

If you want "dirt", maybe why the 9/26 Jordan took the potential series winner in Game 5 instead of the 11/13, ridiculously hot Kukoc. Would Jordan have pulled a Pippen? I was pretty irked about that at the time, but I guess Jordan kind of made up for it in Game 6.
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Re: OT- The Last Dance documentary 

Post#1464 » by dice » Fri May 29, 2020 10:51 pm

wickywack wrote:
dougthonus wrote:
Michael Jackson wrote:I think this documentary was a lot of fun. It of course had a lot of Jordan bias, if I had control over it and it was about me and my life I am going to have more highlights than lowlights. I think they touched on enough to keep it human but hardly was this an expose on MJ. As mentioned, what fun really is an expose on MJ? What purpose does that serve anyone really? So overall I was really entertained. I didn’t expect it being anything different than MJ’s career was... polished for the public. That is best for business and for entertainment and they did a good job on that.


I think you're absolutely right. It's important to remember that this is made for a general audience as well. For Bulls fans that are hyper in the know already, it glosses over some stuff and may leave some room for complaints. For people only casually (or not at all) aware of the Bulls dynasty it provides a ton of depth and interest.

I expect all the 30/30 episodes I watch and other stories are pretty similar in their depth of coverage in a lot of respects. They all have a slant based on the producer, but I don't know the slant because I'm not an expert on the topic already like I am on the Bulls.


Honestly, even as Bulls fan, I wasn't left wanting for sordid details on Jordan's personal life. I'm just not all that interested. On the other hand, I'd have loved more time on Kukoc or Harper or Longley or Tex Winter.

If you want "dirt", maybe why the 9/26 Jordan took the potential series winner in Game 5 instead of the 11/13, ridiculously hot Kukoc. Would Jordan have pulled a Pippen? I was pretty irked about that at the time, but I guess Jordan kind of made up for it in Game 6.

just re-watched the end of that game. kukoc had four 3 pt attempts in final 2 minutes:

-spot up nothing but net
-airmail, nothing but backboard
-fouled, makes first 2, misses 3rd badly
-hail mary, nothing but net

terrible strategy for hornacek to make the 2nd FT w/ 1.1 left instead of intentionally missing

bulls went to kerr first but ball was tipped out of bounds. refs w/ some home cooking to put 0.8 back on the clock. the next play wasn't drawn up well, as MJ and kukoc both converged to the same spot, MJ catching the ball moving away from the basket and having to heave up a prayer. should've lobbed it closer to the basket and tried to tie the game instead, much like the kukoc game winner w/ scottie refusing to enter the game
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Re: OT- The Last Dance documentary 

Post#1465 » by wickywack » Sat May 30, 2020 12:20 am

dice wrote:
wickywack wrote:
dougthonus wrote:
I think you're absolutely right. It's important to remember that this is made for a general audience as well. For Bulls fans that are hyper in the know already, it glosses over some stuff and may leave some room for complaints. For people only casually (or not at all) aware of the Bulls dynasty it provides a ton of depth and interest.

I expect all the 30/30 episodes I watch and other stories are pretty similar in their depth of coverage in a lot of respects. They all have a slant based on the producer, but I don't know the slant because I'm not an expert on the topic already like I am on the Bulls.


Honestly, even as Bulls fan, I wasn't left wanting for sordid details on Jordan's personal life. I'm just not all that interested. On the other hand, I'd have loved more time on Kukoc or Harper or Longley or Tex Winter.

If you want "dirt", maybe why the 9/26 Jordan took the potential series winner in Game 5 instead of the 11/13, ridiculously hot Kukoc. Would Jordan have pulled a Pippen? I was pretty irked about that at the time, but I guess Jordan kind of made up for it in Game 6.

just re-watched the end of that game. kukoc had four 3 pt attempts in final 2 minutes:

-spot up nothing but net
-airmail, nothing but backboard
-fouled, makes first 2, misses 3rd badly
-hail mary, nothing but net

terrible strategy for hornacek to make the 2nd FT w/ 1.1 left instead of intentionally missing

bulls went to kerr first but ball was tipped out of bounds. refs w/ some home cooking to put 0.8 back on the clock. the next play wasn't drawn up well, as MJ and kukoc both converged to the same spot, MJ catching the ball moving away from the basket and having to heave up a prayer. should've lobbed it closer to the basket and tried to tie the game instead, much like the kukoc game winner w/ scottie refusing to enter the game


Great recap. It was fun to watch it again. You're right it, it was more of a broken play/call at the end. Surprising from such an experienced team. Less frustrating knowing what was coming in game 6 though. :-)
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Re: OT- The Last Dance documentary 

Post#1466 » by The Box Office » Sat May 30, 2020 1:07 pm

Gentleman...what we have here is the most unique thrilling sports dynasty OF ALL TIME. No other team in the NBA can say AND DEMONSTRATE that they have what we experienced. We have THE LAST DANCE to prove it. And 6 titles in 8 years. And 14 different models of Air Jordans. And some models of Pippens. And we turned Ewing's Knicks, and Malone's Jazz, into "what could have been if Jordan didn't play." And those teams were damn good themselves.

Magic's Lakers, Bird's Celtics, LeBron, Shaq, Kobe, Russell's Celtics, Chamberlain, Steph Curry's Warriors, New York Knicks, Bad Boys, Hakeem's Rockets, and Tim Duncan's Spurs cannot lay a finger on Jordan's Bulls.

Jordan's Bulls were dysfunctional. There was so much tension, drama, politics, and conflict that no other sports organization in the NBA and other sports can claim. There were too many compelling side stories that made this an event throughout the 1980s and 1990s that still resonate today. A lot of this was CAPTURED on film in real time.

No other team has what WE have.

This is ultra rare. We should be thankful. When kids argue about LeBron, Kobe, and whoever against Jordan, I can now say, "Just watch The Last Dance."

I couldn't say that before.

When MJ and Pip over came the Pistons, we couldn't be beat. Until MJ retired. That's 100% true. I can SAY AND SHOW this and the younger kids have to sit down and shut up.

The final thing is Phil Jackson. I cried. Like crazy. He got me. That last thing that Phil Jackson said. His tone. It was so.......FINAL. It was final. This is it. I got to relive a large piece of my childhood again through The Last Dance. One more time. To be younger again.

Phil said, "This is uhhh a good time to go. It was a great run. We had a wonderful time...Good team...(silence).........time to go."


Then it was gone. It's fleeting, but leaves a permanent mark. It was The Goodbye from the entire gang. It's like I was on my death bed. Phil Jackson is the voice of the Master Creator saying this to me before I shut my eyes for good.

He's 100% correct though. Phil knew when to let go. That's one of the hardest things to do in life. To let go.

Phil Jackson acknowledged that a 7th title run is not possible IN THE MOMENT in late 1996/early 1997 way before any of us. He saw the missing steps.

We can argue about 7th ring. What if's all day and all night. Who to blame for the break up. Those talks are a waste of time. Because it's infinite. I don't even care anymore. The fact remains that it didn't happen. It wasn't meant to be. The steps didn't add up to reach the top of the stairs to make the 7th ring happen. And that's ok. I accepted this and let go a long time ago.

I had my fun. The Last Dance is an educational and entertaining material for the new generation who. just. don't. know.
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Re: OT- The Last Dance documentary 

Post#1467 » by JordansBulls » Sun May 31, 2020 8:04 pm



Didn’t realize this but Scottie starting at the 11:00 minute mark says he could sign a 1 year deal to bring team back.
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Re: OT- The Last Dance documentary 

Post#1468 » by dice » Sun May 31, 2020 8:13 pm

JordansBulls wrote:

Didn’t realize this but Scottie starting at the 11:00 minute mark says he could sign a 1 year deal to bring team back.

as we know, scottie tends to change his mind on things. but if he maintained that position it would seem to indicate that phil had a lot of sway in what happened
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Re: OT- The Last Dance documentary 

Post#1469 » by GusFring » Sun May 31, 2020 9:22 pm

Heavily late in the discussion but this was the best sports doc I've ever seen. I'm glad I got to live in this era even if I was very young. The nba was special then, bring defense back please.
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Re: OT- The Last Dance documentary 

Post#1470 » by Dan Z » Mon Jun 1, 2020 6:51 am

I don't know if this was already shared, but here you go.

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Re: OT- The Last Dance documentary 

Post#1471 » by drosestruts » Fri Jun 5, 2020 9:39 pm

The Bulls have gotten a lot of flack for breaking up the dynasty and it kind of got me curious if it gives front offices pause to break up their current teams.

Recent history has examples of Boston trading off their guys and not letting them run it all the way into the ground.

The best current example is Golden State - a lot of guys now on big contracts and some of them with injury histories. Before this doc their front office might have been willing to engage in some sort of deal, but now I feel like there's added pressure to let great teams run it out on their own. Will be interesting to see what they do moving forward.
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Re: OT- The Last Dance documentary 

Post#1472 » by HomoSapien » Fri Jun 5, 2020 11:05 pm

So Michael Jordan and the Jordan Brand just pledged $100m over ten years to supporting racial equality. $100M! Good for Mike, in his older age he's slowly starting to become a little less apolitical.

Also:

Read on Twitter
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Re: OT- The Last Dance documentary 

Post#1473 » by troza » Sun Jun 7, 2020 9:43 pm

drosestruts wrote:The Bulls have gotten a lot of flack for breaking up the dynasty and it kind of got me curious if it gives front offices pause to break up their current teams.

Recent history has examples of Boston trading off their guys and not letting them run it all the way into the ground.

The best current example is Golden State - a lot of guys now on big contracts and some of them with injury histories. Before this doc their front office might have been willing to engage in some sort of deal, but now I feel like there's added pressure to let great teams run it out on their own. Will be interesting to see what they do moving forward.


No team is facing that after a 3-peat.

The Celtics went for a rebuild after a while since their last win. The Warriors lost last year and they weren't kept together because Durant didn't want. Even the Dallas did what they did with Nowitski while rebuilding. Players need to accept that position.

But i havent' seen any franchise destroy a team after the title... unless the Bulls in 98. Or can we include Dallas Mavericks in 2012?
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Re: OT- The Last Dance documentary 

Post#1474 » by dougthonus » Mon Jun 8, 2020 1:27 pm

HomoSapien wrote:So Michael Jordan and the Jordan Brand just pledged $100m over ten years to supporting racial equality. $100M! Good for Mike, in his older age he's slowly starting to become a little less apolitical.


Obviously, great for Jordan to do this.

I know Jordan has gotten a lot of criticism for being apolitical, but I think some of that apoliticalness actually was of great benefit to black people. Jordan rose above race in every way imaginable. He was idolized by everyone and accessible to everyone. In some ways, he may have been able to do more to be a black hero, but it may have made him less of a hero to the masses.

I don't know if there has ever even been anyone so universally loved and idolized in my life as Jordan and that was true across all cultures, races, whatever, and I think there is something powerful towards race relations that a black man was one of the most love figures in the world of his generation. That there was something about him that was so inclusive made him special.

Maybe he could have been strongly politically active and still held on to that and maybe he couldn't, but I think even by not being politically active he did a lot to bring people together of all races.
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Re: OT- The Last Dance documentary 

Post#1475 » by Michael Jackson » Mon Jun 8, 2020 8:39 pm

dougthonus wrote:
HomoSapien wrote:So Michael Jordan and the Jordan Brand just pledged $100m over ten years to supporting racial equality. $100M! Good for Mike, in his older age he's slowly starting to become a little less apolitical.


Obviously, great for Jordan to do this.

I know Jordan has gotten a lot of criticism for being apolitical, but I think some of that apoliticalness actually was of great benefit to black people. Jordan rose above race in every way imaginable. He was idolized by everyone and accessible to everyone. In some ways, he may have been able to do more to be a black hero, but it may have made him less of a hero to the masses.

I don't know if there has ever even been anyone so universally loved and idolized in my life as Jordan and that was true across all cultures, races, whatever, and I think there is something powerful towards race relations that a black man was one of the most love figures in the world of his generation. That there was something about him that was so inclusive made him special.

Maybe he could have been strongly politically active and still held on to that and maybe he couldn't, but I think even by not being politically active he did a lot to bring people together of all races.



Very true, Ali is not as universally loved because of his political stances, although that polarization faded over the years with Ali. Kareem is considered a militant black by many though and they just tune him out because of his stances. Jordan definitely transcended that.
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Re: OT- The Last Dance documentary 

Post#1476 » by HomoSapien » Wed Jun 10, 2020 8:00 pm



Eduarda Najera shares a story about Michael Jordan (and Oakley) beating Stephen Jackson and some other Bobcats in practice at the age of 51. Jackson was a legit 20 point scorer during this time.
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