PaKii94 wrote: Chicago-Bull-E wrote:
Declaring him the best player on this team is subjective. Objective facts say he's a middling player on this team at best when it comes to impact.
+/- goes both ways -- team and individually. Yes it's how well team utilizes a player but it is also how well the player applies his skills to make an impact. Zach (along with RW) are poor applications of their talent (which they have an immense amount).
Really, middling impact at best? So he is the bottom half of this team in terms of impact, that's your take? I'd love to see a player ranking then.
Rankings on the team (min 500 minutes, sorry Shaq Harrison)
Win Shares: 1st
RPM: 1st (28th in league)
82games Simply Rating: 1st
PPG: 1st -> counting stats
APG: 2nd -> counting stats
RPG: 4th -> counting stats
Win Shares: 1st -> counting stats, inflated by minutes/usage. With a good sample of minutes, WS/48 is better
VORP: 1st -> counting stats (inflated by minutes/usage)
BPM: 1st -> counting stats
RPM: 1st (28th in league) -> closest to a legitimate advanced stat...but was recently was tweaked in favor of offense
82games Simply Rating: 1st -> dunno this stat, will get back to you on that but if I was putting money on it...counting stats
Again I said impact. I want the team to be better. I couldn't care less about how many points he has.
Above 500 minutes (and OPJ):
ORTG -- 8/12
DRTG -- 6/12
On court +/- -- 9/12
On/off +/- -- 10/12
With by far the highest usage (31%) on the team (nearly double everyone besides Coby(24%) /Lauri (21%))
AST/TO ratio -- 6/12
eFG% -- 5/12
The stats you shared (along with his scoring volume + efficiency) do show the enormous potential he has but so far he hasn't applied it the right way to produce positive results. If something clicks with Lavine, we would have a superstar in our hands but until then, yeah he's a middling player with inflated usage on a poorly functioning team. His low impact stats aren't the product of the team, the team is a product of his low impact at high usage.
Production matters, offensive rating and defensive ratings and on/off numbers for 3/4 of a season aren't going to give you a full picture look into a player's value. Offensive rating says Felicio is the best offensive player on the team, followed by Gafford then WCJ. It's silly to use this data, isn't it? Surely there is more context than needs to be looked at than the data your are using alone. Are you of the opinion that this offense is better with Lavine removed than it would be with Gafford removed?
And if you look at RPM, VORP, and WS, the data is much more in line with conventional wisdom.
Also a little disingenuous to use eFG% over TS%, where Lavine is 3rd. He is also 2nd in Assist % and is middle of the pack in Turnover %, which agrees with the picture we all see, which is he's asked to do a ton.
FWIW, the following I believe about Lavine:
-He will never be the best player on a championship team.
-He will very likely never be the 2nd best player on a championship team.
-I believe he can be the 3rd best player on a championship team.
-He has good value for what he is paid. Maybe you can argue if you really don't like him, that 19.5 is too much. But how off would that be, down to 16 million? I don't think it's sensible to say he is a 12-14 million dollar player.
-He's been surrounded by awfulness his entire stay here.
-The guys that are underperforming need to be looked at to be dealt. WCJ, Lauri, the Bulls 2020 pick should be on the table for an allstar.
I like the idea of throwing the kitchen sink at Embiid this offseason, having an Embiid-Lavine team, and then get that allstar wing in free agency in a year or two.