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Jordan's 3

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dougthonus
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Re: Jordan's 3 

Post#41 » by dougthonus » Tue May 19, 2020 2:39 pm

dice wrote:if MJ had a high level of ability to shoot the 3 and instead chose to focus his time and energy on grinding it out in the post to develop a fadeaway, he was one of the dumbest basketball players around. particularly as his %s INSIDE the arc were dwindling late in his career (and there's no explaining that away). michael jordan was a lot of things as a player, but dumb is not one of them


Shooting stats are only available from Jordan's last two years with the Bulls. While he wasn't other worldly in 97/98, he was over 50% from mid range in 96/97 including 52% from 16-23 feet. If he maintined his 38% from 3 then he would have been slightly more efficient, but it would have added about 1/4th of one point per game if he shifted 50% of his long twos to threes (he already shot 3.6 threes per game and this would have boosted him up to 6). It would have added slightly over a half point if removed all his long twos for threes.

If you think that setting up in the mid range put him in better passing position for the offense or allowed him to get to the basket better, then the minute change in his overall efficiency by removing this shot could easily be vastly overwhelmed by the offense being hurt in other ways.

Can also argue that the consistency of hitting shots put more pressure on opponents and gave a more consistent output to the team and offense then if he had tried to launch tons of threes. Mixing in those different shots also probably gave him a lot more variety and overall made him more difficult to defend.

I also don't think Jordan was dumb, but lots of really smart players weren't trying to shoot tons of threes and focus only on corner threes to juice the offense overall by a few points per game. It just wasn't something people did in that era.
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Re: Jordan's 3 

Post#42 » by wickywack » Tue May 19, 2020 9:59 pm

dougthonus wrote:
dice wrote:if MJ had a high level of ability to shoot the 3 and instead chose to focus his time and energy on grinding it out in the post to develop a fadeaway, he was one of the dumbest basketball players around. particularly as his %s INSIDE the arc were dwindling late in his career (and there's no explaining that away). michael jordan was a lot of things as a player, but dumb is not one of them


Shooting stats are only available from Jordan's last two years with the Bulls. While he wasn't other worldly in 97/98, he was over 50% from mid range in 96/97 including 52% from 16-23 feet. If he maintined his 38% from 3 then he would have been slightly more efficient, but it would have added about 1/4th of one point per game if he shifted 50% of his long twos to threes (he already shot 3.6 threes per game and this would have boosted him up to 6). It would have added slightly over a half point if removed all his long twos for threes.

If you think that setting up in the mid range put him in better passing position for the offense or allowed him to get to the basket better, then the minute change in his overall efficiency by removing this shot could easily be vastly overwhelmed by the offense being hurt in other ways.

Can also argue that the consistency of hitting shots put more pressure on opponents and gave a more consistent output to the team and offense then if he had tried to launch tons of threes. Mixing in those different shots also probably gave him a lot more variety and overall made him more difficult to defend.

I also don't think Jordan was dumb, but lots of really smart players weren't trying to shoot tons of threes and focus only on corner threes to juice the offense overall by a few points per game. It just wasn't something people did in that era.


There is also a comparative advantage aspect to this. Jordan was *by far* the Bulls' best inside scorer. Kerr was one of the best 3pt shooters of all time. Kukoc and Pippen were similar caliber to Jordan. So, it made sense for him to focus on what he uniquely did best.
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Re: Jordan's 3 

Post#43 » by dice » Wed May 20, 2020 4:16 am

wickywack wrote:
dougthonus wrote:
dice wrote:if MJ had a high level of ability to shoot the 3 and instead chose to focus his time and energy on grinding it out in the post to develop a fadeaway, he was one of the dumbest basketball players around. particularly as his %s INSIDE the arc were dwindling late in his career (and there's no explaining that away). michael jordan was a lot of things as a player, but dumb is not one of them


Shooting stats are only available from Jordan's last two years with the Bulls. While he wasn't other worldly in 97/98, he was over 50% from mid range in 96/97 including 52% from 16-23 feet. If he maintined his 38% from 3 then he would have been slightly more efficient, but it would have added about 1/4th of one point per game if he shifted 50% of his long twos to threes (he already shot 3.6 threes per game and this would have boosted him up to 6). It would have added slightly over a half point if removed all his long twos for threes.

If you think that setting up in the mid range put him in better passing position for the offense or allowed him to get to the basket better, then the minute change in his overall efficiency by removing this shot could easily be vastly overwhelmed by the offense being hurt in other ways.

Can also argue that the consistency of hitting shots put more pressure on opponents and gave a more consistent output to the team and offense then if he had tried to launch tons of threes. Mixing in those different shots also probably gave him a lot more variety and overall made him more difficult to defend.

I also don't think Jordan was dumb, but lots of really smart players weren't trying to shoot tons of threes and focus only on corner threes to juice the offense overall by a few points per game. It just wasn't something people did in that era.


There is also a comparative advantage aspect to this. Jordan was *by far* the Bulls' best inside scorer. Kerr was one of the best 3pt shooters of all time. Kukoc and Pippen were similar caliber to Jordan. So, it made sense for him to focus on what he uniquely did best.

he could get a 3 pt shot whenever he wanted. unlike kerr. which is why kerr wasn't as valuable as reggie miller. it made all the sense in the world for MJ to shoot that shot at a high percentage if he were capable. particularly as he aged. he didn't even do it on the wizards when the rest of his game had severely deteriorated

in other news, did you guys know that MJ never missed a clutch shot unless he didn't feel like making it? and would have been a better football player than lebron? and farts febreze? cuz that's what a certain realgm poster told me in-between phone calls trying to get an airport in angola named after MJ
the donald, always unpopular, did worse in EVERY state in 2020. and by a greater margin in red states! 50 independently-run elections, none of them rigged
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Re: Jordan's 3 

Post#44 » by dice » Wed May 20, 2020 4:25 am

dougthonus wrote:
dice wrote:if MJ had a high level of ability to shoot the 3 and instead chose to focus his time and energy on grinding it out in the post to develop a fadeaway, he was one of the dumbest basketball players around. particularly as his %s INSIDE the arc were dwindling late in his career (and there's no explaining that away). michael jordan was a lot of things as a player, but dumb is not one of them


Shooting stats are only available from Jordan's last two years with the Bulls. While he wasn't other worldly in 97/98, he was over 50% from mid range in 96/97 including 52% from 16-23 feet. If he maintined his 38% from 3 then he would have been slightly more efficient, but it would have added about 1/4th of one point per game if he shifted 50% of his long twos to threes (he already shot 3.6 threes per game and this would have boosted him up to 6). It would have added slightly over a half point if removed all his long twos for threes.

If you think that setting up in the mid range put him in better passing position for the offense or allowed him to get to the basket better, then the minute change in his overall efficiency by removing this shot could easily be vastly overwhelmed by the offense being hurt in other ways.

Can also argue that the consistency of hitting shots put more pressure on opponents and gave a more consistent output to the team and offense then if he had tried to launch tons of threes. Mixing in those different shots also probably gave him a lot more variety and overall made him more difficult to defend.

I also don't think Jordan was dumb, but lots of really smart players weren't trying to shoot tons of threes and focus only on corner threes to juice the offense overall by a few points per game. It just wasn't something people did in that era.

as we know from guys like niko, who wasn't a great 3 pt shooter for us but was very beneficial to the offense because of the spacing he provided, having guys operate out of the post is not ideal from a team offensive perspective. but as you say, that wasn't the game 20 years ago (or even 10)
the donald, always unpopular, did worse in EVERY state in 2020. and by a greater margin in red states! 50 independently-run elections, none of them rigged

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