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Just Sad, "Chicago sees deadliest Memorial Day weekend in four years"

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Re: Just Sad, "Chicago sees deadliest Memorial Day weekend in four years" 

Post#1041 » by dougthonus » Thu Jun 18, 2020 5:17 pm

Dresden wrote:I wonder how it would work if, say, Officer X was one of the patrolmen in your neighborhood who was known to rough up people, etc. Once he gets more than 2 complaints about him, he's required to keep his body cam on at all times that he's out of the squad car, and it's put on a live feed on You Tube or some other station. I have to think that would put an end to any misbehavior by Office X.

That's not going to prevent situations like we've had with Brooks and Floyd. But it would be a good tool to prevent the daily harassment a lot of officers dish out to certain people.


Why wait for someone to get any complaints. Just make it policy that officers need bodycams on at all points and that the data is publicly available on the cloud.
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Re: Just Sad, "Chicago sees deadliest Memorial Day weekend in four years" 

Post#1042 » by jc23 » Thu Jun 18, 2020 5:27 pm

Listening to Jocko speak on the jRE i didnt realize how poorly trained police officers are. I always assumed it because so many of them let their bodies go once they get on the force. In the military your required to maintain a certain Physical Training level and half your job is your training. A reform is necessary but doing so right at this moment would be a mistake since the driving force is coming from emotion.

Im curious what the penalty is for running away from a cop or verbal/physical assault. Maybe if these crimes were more strict less people would feel emboldened to commit them. i always felt (maybe from the movies) that if i ran from a cop i dramatically increased my chances of getting shot, but maybe none of us should have ever felt this way?

Cops should know that they signed on to be held at a higher standard and are here to serve and civilians should treat cops as they would a judge.
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Re: Just Sad, "Chicago sees deadliest Memorial Day weekend in four years" 

Post#1043 » by League Circles » Thu Jun 18, 2020 5:56 pm

dougthonus wrote:
Dresden wrote:I wonder how it would work if, say, Officer X was one of the patrolmen in your neighborhood who was known to rough up people, etc. Once he gets more than 2 complaints about him, he's required to keep his body cam on at all times that he's out of the squad car, and it's put on a live feed on You Tube or some other station. I have to think that would put an end to any misbehavior by Office X.

That's not going to prevent situations like we've had with Brooks and Floyd. But it would be a good tool to prevent the daily harassment a lot of officers dish out to certain people.


Why wait for someone to get any complaints. Just make it policy that officers need bodycams on at all points and that the data is publicly available on the cloud.

Exactly. Many, many, people, including in the public sector, are required to perform most or all of their work under public scrutiny. I say increase the pay to compensate for the increased accountability, and hopefully it causes some bad cops to quit and be replaced by better, new cops, who are attracted by the ability to reform public protection while making a good living.
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Re: Just Sad, "Chicago sees deadliest Memorial Day weekend in four years" 

Post#1044 » by Dresden » Thu Jun 18, 2020 7:29 pm

My thought on limiting it to officers who have complaints against them is that it would cut down on the "noise" created by having zillions of video feeds up. Instead, it would only be for officers who you knew had complaints against them. And the complaints should be made to an independent agency, not the police force itself. You might get some frivolous complaints- so be it. And if an officer goes 6 months or a year without further complaints, they can get taken off the live feeds.
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Re: Just Sad, "Chicago sees deadliest Memorial Day weekend in four years" 

Post#1045 » by 2018C3 » Thu Jun 18, 2020 7:55 pm

I also hope the cops catch the white lady who burned down the Wendys. and send her to jail. If she resits, punches a cop, grabs a tazer, and points it a officer I would have no sympathy for her.

Its a terrible message to send to today's youth that these actions are acceptable when dealing with law enforcement.

Doug mentioned body cams for all officers, at all times. This would also be a good start. Both to protect them, and also to protect the public they serve.

When conflicts arise, and they will. Let the courts determine the outcome.
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Re: Just Sad, "Chicago sees deadliest Memorial Day weekend in four years" 

Post#1046 » by dougthonus » Thu Jun 18, 2020 9:02 pm

Dresden wrote:My thought on limiting it to officers who have complaints against them is that it would cut down on the "noise" created by having zillions of video feeds up. Instead, it would only be for officers who you knew had complaints against them. And the complaints should be made to an independent agency, not the police force itself. You might get some frivolous complaints- so be it. And if an officer goes 6 months or a year without further complaints, they can get taken off the live feeds.


I'm not sure that having a live feed has any meaningful value. I don't foresee the public watching live cop feeds to watch the police.
Having a feed where you can go and search and look up an incident after the fact does. You were bullied by a cop, you can go back, find the tape, and report it.
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Re: Just Sad, "Chicago sees deadliest Memorial Day weekend in four years" 

Post#1047 » by League Circles » Thu Jun 18, 2020 9:19 pm

dougthonus wrote:
Dresden wrote:My thought on limiting it to officers who have complaints against them is that it would cut down on the "noise" created by having zillions of video feeds up. Instead, it would only be for officers who you knew had complaints against them. And the complaints should be made to an independent agency, not the police force itself. You might get some frivolous complaints- so be it. And if an officer goes 6 months or a year without further complaints, they can get taken off the live feeds.


I'm not sure that having a live feed has any meaningful value. I don't foresee the public watching live cop feeds to watch the police.
Having a feed where you can go and search and look up an incident after the fact does. You were bullied by a cop, you can go back, find the tape, and report it.

Yeah, also live feeds could very much compromise police activity. I don't know what the lag should be, but there should be one. Actually it probably shouldn't have unlimited public access, as that would also reveal patrol circuit trends, etc, and make things like robberies easier. But they should be on all the time, with good microphones, backed up by 3rd party servers, and available for all reasonable audit/complaint reasons, and in quick fashion.
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Re: Just Sad, "Chicago sees deadliest Memorial Day weekend in four years" 

Post#1048 » by Dresden » Thu Jun 18, 2020 9:54 pm

dougthonus wrote:
Dresden wrote:My thought on limiting it to officers who have complaints against them is that it would cut down on the "noise" created by having zillions of video feeds up. Instead, it would only be for officers who you knew had complaints against them. And the complaints should be made to an independent agency, not the police force itself. You might get some frivolous complaints- so be it. And if an officer goes 6 months or a year without further complaints, they can get taken off the live feeds.


I'm not sure that having a live feed has any meaningful value. I don't foresee the public watching live cop feeds to watch the police.
Having a feed where you can go and search and look up an incident after the fact does. You were bullied by a cop, you can go back, find the tape, and report it.


Sure, wouldn't have to be live. Just as long as you could, say, pull up Officer X's actions on a certain time and place as evidence. I really think the would go a long, long way to stopping police bullying of people, that we know goes on every day, in every city in America. And then an independent, citizen review board would need to have real power to step in and say, "that is not acceptable. Officer X cannot treat people that way". Without a police union protecting these guys from consequences.
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Re: Just Sad, "Chicago sees deadliest Memorial Day weekend in four years" 

Post#1049 » by dice » Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:06 pm

dougthonus wrote:
Dresden wrote:I wonder how it would work if, say, Officer X was one of the patrolmen in your neighborhood who was known to rough up people, etc. Once he gets more than 2 complaints about him, he's required to keep his body cam on at all times that he's out of the squad car, and it's put on a live feed on You Tube or some other station. I have to think that would put an end to any misbehavior by Office X.

That's not going to prevent situations like we've had with Brooks and Floyd. But it would be a good tool to prevent the daily harassment a lot of officers dish out to certain people.


Why wait for someone to get any complaints. Just make it policy that officers need bodycams on at all points and that the data is publicly available on the cloud.

interesting suggestion. can't imagine that the police union wouldn't fight it tooth and nail, though

how 'bout tracking complaints against officers and having that info available online to the public? the chauvins of the world would either markedly change their behavior or have a much harder time holding on to their jobs
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Re: Just Sad, "Chicago sees deadliest Memorial Day weekend in four years" 

Post#1050 » by musiqsoulchild » Fri Jun 19, 2020 1:18 am

2018C3 wrote:I also hope the cops catch the white lady who burned down the Wendys. and send her to jail. If she resits, punches a cop, grabs a tazer, and points it a officer I would have no sympathy for her.

Its a terrible message to send to today's youth that these actions are acceptable when dealing with law enforcement.

Doug mentioned body cams for all officers, at all times. This would also be a good start. Both to protect them, and also to protect the public they serve.

When conflicts arise, and they will. Let the courts determine the outcome.


I am torn on this.

I think that without an expenditure of Force, objects don't move.

It's a Physics principle. And it lends itself perfectly to life.

Without force being exerted, the gigantic system of molasses like law and order in our country will not move to change.
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Re: Just Sad, "Chicago sees deadliest Memorial Day weekend in four years" 

Post#1051 » by Dresden » Fri Jun 19, 2020 1:51 am

dice wrote:
dougthonus wrote:
Dresden wrote:I wonder how it would work if, say, Officer X was one of the patrolmen in your neighborhood who was known to rough up people, etc. Once he gets more than 2 complaints about him, he's required to keep his body cam on at all times that he's out of the squad car, and it's put on a live feed on You Tube or some other station. I have to think that would put an end to any misbehavior by Office X.

That's not going to prevent situations like we've had with Brooks and Floyd. But it would be a good tool to prevent the daily harassment a lot of officers dish out to certain people.


Why wait for someone to get any complaints. Just make it policy that officers need bodycams on at all points and that the data is publicly available on the cloud.

interesting suggestion. can't imagine that the police union wouldn't fight it tooth and nail, though

how 'bout tracking complaints against officers and having that info available online to the public? the chauvins of the world would either markedly change their behavior or have a much harder time holding on to their jobs


Citizen review boards have to hold some real power, too. In Minneapolis at least, the CRB has said they have made numerous suggestions and demands of the police force over the years, and they get almost none of their requests met, due to the power of the police union and the police chief.
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Re: Just Sad, "Chicago sees deadliest Memorial Day weekend in four years" 

Post#1052 » by chefo » Fri Jun 19, 2020 3:00 pm

My perspective as a (white) guy who has had quite a few interactions with the decent folk in one of my city's really rough black neighborhoods through charity work. It's a lose, lose, really, and a human tragedy on a massive scale, and Orlando is nowhere near the level of violence of south Chicago, Baltimore or East LA.

Down here, you see local pastors, businessmen and many others of the Black community hustle like crazy to get a just few boys on the right track. At the same time, the local Bloods and Crips recruit middle-schoolers by the dozens every year, and do drive by shootings, armed car-jackings and beatings of random strangers as initiations. The Magic try to get players and staff to mentor kids in the ghetto. They are barely making a dent. My family worked with a kid who had been to Juvie three times before he had turned 14. Bright kid, but kept horrible company, mom was a non-functioning junkie and dad was in and out of jail throughout his whole childhood. He was smart enough to understand that the path he was headed, he'd either be dead or in prison for life, so with a little help, he managed to get his priorities straight and now has graduated high-school and is joining the army.

Just to make clear--these are problems ubiquitous to the urban black community even in a nice area like Central Florida. The 'resource officer', who is the armed cop on duty at the school my wife used to work at, a middle-aged black man, had almost no sympathy for these boys because every other day he had to drag somebody off to the precinct for dealing or mass fights. He called them punks and much worse. The black senior staff at the school did not care much for them either, and said it would be a miracle if they managed to get many of them out of middle school. Many couldn't read or write by 6th-7th grade, some already had kids. Somebody told me that 80% of the black kids in the school were from single parent family (read single mom), and a quarter were technically considered homeless. And at some point, the county instituted a ridiculous policy where to 'equalize' the rate at which black and other ethnicities were kicked out of school, many 'one-time' offenses like being caught with drugs on campus, or assault, were no longer enough for an expulsion. Which then promptly increased the actual number of transgressions and led to teachers literally being threatened by students because the kids sensed that they had the leverage on the staff. My wife left a year later, a year before her pension vested, after a student with documented violent history threatened to kill her in writing and the administrative staff did not even expel him. Crazily enough, the threat was enough for us to press charges (we didn't), but not enough for expulsion.

The boy we mentored simply said that in the hood you have to be hyper aggressive or else you're at the bottom of the food chain, and you'll get robbed, bullied and worse. It's really not a choice--but that creates a whole generation of urban black youth who are used to settling every dispute with fists, knifes and guns and who see the law being broken in their community all the time and that as being the status quo.

Combine that with the fact that cops usually come from the tail end of the curve in terms of aggressiveness and the desire to dominate through power, and you've got a no-win situation for everybody involved because they get to constantly interact with hyper-aggressive young men. And I really don't know how you fix that. To me, the solutions are probably so comprehensive in nature, both in the changing the policing and in trying to change the culture of youth violence, that they border on impossible to implement.

An officer I know, one of the nicest guys I've ever met, BTW, once told me that when in crisis, the only thoughts in your head are how to make sure you get home alive. He patrolled Disney much of the time, but patrolling the ghetto made him nervous as hell. His point was--when most of the violent crime in an entire city of a couple of million is committed in a 2x2 mile square, you as a cop know it because you live it every day so they are probably extra nervous and trigger happy because of the stress.

Anyhow, my limited and anecdotal perspective--when you put two hyper aggressive groups together, both of which are used to resolving conflict through force, you'll get violence and that to me looks like an unavoidable and really sad consequence.
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Re: Just Sad, "Chicago sees deadliest Memorial Day weekend in four years" 

Post#1053 » by Dresden » Fri Jun 19, 2020 3:41 pm

chefo wrote:My perspective as a (white) guy who has had quite a few interactions with the decent folk in one of my city's really rough black neighborhoods through charity work. It's a lose, lose, really, and a human tragedy on a massive scale, and Orlando is nowhere near the level of violence of south Chicago, Baltimore or East LA.

Down here, you see local pastors, businessmen and many others of the Black community hustle like crazy to get a just few boys on the right track. At the same time, the local Bloods and Crips recruit middle-schoolers by the dozens every year, and do drive by shootings, armed car-jackings and beatings of random strangers as initiations. The Magic try to get players and staff to mentor kids in the ghetto. They are barely making a dent. My family worked with a kid who had been to Juvie three times before he had turned 14. Bright kid, but kept horrible company, mom was a non-functioning junkie and dad was in and out of jail throughout his whole childhood. He was smart enough to understand that the path he was headed, he'd either be dead or in prison for life, so with a little help, he managed to get his priorities straight and now has graduated high-school and is joining the army.

Just to make clear--these are problems ubiquitous to the urban black community even in a nice area like Central Florida. The 'resource officer', who is the armed cop on duty at the school my wife used to work at, a middle-aged black man, had almost no sympathy for these boys because every other day he had to drag somebody off to the precinct for dealing or mass fights. He called them punks and much worse. The black senior staff at the school did not care much for them either, and said it would be a miracle if they managed to get many of them out of middle school. Many couldn't read or write by 6th-7th grade, some already had kids. Somebody told me that 80% of the black kids in the school were from single parent family (read single mom), and a quarter were technically considered homeless. And at some point, the county instituted a ridiculous policy where to 'equalize' the rate at which black and other ethnicities were kicked out of school, many 'one-time' offenses like being caught with drugs on campus, or assault, were no longer enough for an expulsion. Which then promptly increased the actual number of transgressions and led to teachers literally being threatened by students because the kids sensed that they had the leverage on the staff. My wife left a year later, a year before her pension vested, after a student with documented violent history threatened to kill her in writing and the administrative staff did not even expel him. Crazily enough, the threat was enough for us to press charges (we didn't), but not enough for expulsion.

The boy we mentored simply said that in the hood you have to be hyper aggressive or else you're at the bottom of the food chain, and you'll get robbed, bullied and worse. It's really not a choice--but that creates a whole generation of urban black youth who are used to settling every dispute with fists, knifes and guns and who see the law being broken in their community all the time and that as being the status quo.

Combine that with the fact that cops usually come from the tail end of the curve in terms of aggressiveness and the desire to dominate through power, and you've got a no-win situation for everybody involved because they get to constantly interact with hyper-aggressive young men. And I really don't know how you fix that. To me, the solutions are probably so comprehensive in nature, both in the changing the policing and in trying to change the culture of youth violence, that they border on impossible to implement.

An officer I know, one of the nicest guys I've ever met, BTW, once told me that when in crisis, the only thoughts in your head are how to make sure you get home alive. He patrolled Disney much of the time, but patrolling the ghetto made him nervous as hell. His point was--when most of the violent crime in an entire city of a couple of million is committed in a 2x2 mile square, you as a cop know it because you live it every day so they are probably extra nervous and trigger happy because of the stress.

Anyhow, my limited and anecdotal perspective--when you put two hyper aggressive groups together, both of which are used to resolving conflict through force, you'll get violence and that to me looks like an unavoidable and really sad consequence.


Thanks for sharing that. It's a massive problem. We really need something like a Marshall Plan for our inner cities. LBJ had a war on poverty, that got derailed by the Vietnam War. We need something like that again- a massive investment in these communities to break the ugly cycle of violence and poverty. If we can afford to spend 150 million dollars on a single jet fighter plane, we can afford to address this.
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Re: Just Sad, "Chicago sees deadliest Memorial Day weekend in four years" 

Post#1054 » by 2018C3 » Fri Jun 19, 2020 8:32 pm

Dresden wrote:
chefo wrote:My perspective as a (white) guy who has had quite a few interactions with the decent folk in one of my city's really rough black neighborhoods through charity work. It's a lose, lose, really, and a human tragedy on a massive scale, and Orlando is nowhere near the level of violence of south Chicago, Baltimore or East LA.

Down here, you see local pastors, businessmen and many others of the Black community hustle like crazy to get a just few boys on the right track. At the same time, the local Bloods and Crips recruit middle-schoolers by the dozens every year, and do drive by shootings, armed car-jackings and beatings of random strangers as initiations. The Magic try to get players and staff to mentor kids in the ghetto. They are barely making a dent. My family worked with a kid who had been to Juvie three times before he had turned 14. Bright kid, but kept horrible company, mom was a non-functioning junkie and dad was in and out of jail throughout his whole childhood. He was smart enough to understand that the path he was headed, he'd either be dead or in prison for life, so with a little help, he managed to get his priorities straight and now has graduated high-school and is joining the army.

Just to make clear--these are problems ubiquitous to the urban black community even in a nice area like Central Florida. The 'resource officer', who is the armed cop on duty at the school my wife used to work at, a middle-aged black man, had almost no sympathy for these boys because every other day he had to drag somebody off to the precinct for dealing or mass fights. He called them punks and much worse. The black senior staff at the school did not care much for them either, and said it would be a miracle if they managed to get many of them out of middle school. Many couldn't read or write by 6th-7th grade, some already had kids. Somebody told me that 80% of the black kids in the school were from single parent family (read single mom), and a quarter were technically considered homeless. And at some point, the county instituted a ridiculous policy where to 'equalize' the rate at which black and other ethnicities were kicked out of school, many 'one-time' offenses like being caught with drugs on campus, or assault, were no longer enough for an expulsion. Which then promptly increased the actual number of transgressions and led to teachers literally being threatened by students because the kids sensed that they had the leverage on the staff. My wife left a year later, a year before her pension vested, after a student with documented violent history threatened to kill her in writing and the administrative staff did not even expel him. Crazily enough, the threat was enough for us to press charges (we didn't), but not enough for expulsion.

The boy we mentored simply said that in the hood you have to be hyper aggressive or else you're at the bottom of the food chain, and you'll get robbed, bullied and worse. It's really not a choice--but that creates a whole generation of urban black youth who are used to settling every dispute with fists, knifes and guns and who see the law being broken in their community all the time and that as being the status quo.

Combine that with the fact that cops usually come from the tail end of the curve in terms of aggressiveness and the desire to dominate through power, and you've got a no-win situation for everybody involved because they get to constantly interact with hyper-aggressive young men. And I really don't know how you fix that. To me, the solutions are probably so comprehensive in nature, both in the changing the policing and in trying to change the culture of youth violence, that they border on impossible to implement.

An officer I know, one of the nicest guys I've ever met, BTW, once told me that when in crisis, the only thoughts in your head are how to make sure you get home alive. He patrolled Disney much of the time, but patrolling the ghetto made him nervous as hell. His point was--when most of the violent crime in an entire city of a couple of million is committed in a 2x2 mile square, you as a cop know it because you live it every day so they are probably extra nervous and trigger happy because of the stress.

Anyhow, my limited and anecdotal perspective--when you put two hyper aggressive groups together, both of which are used to resolving conflict through force, you'll get violence and that to me looks like an unavoidable and really sad consequence.


Thanks for sharing that. It's a massive problem. We really need something like a Marshall Plan for our inner cities. LBJ had a war on poverty, that got derailed by the Vietnam War. We need something like that again- a massive investment in these communities to break the ugly cycle of violence and poverty. If we can afford to spend 150 million dollars on a single jet fighter plane, we can afford to address this.


Take once less fighter jet, and give positive volunteer pre-approved role models a $2000 tax break for time spent, with so many required hours a month. You instantly get 75,000 volunteers, and I bet you would see a big change. The kids in the most need, just need to be exposed to the outside world, and see there is another way out.

In a scenario like this, I think race should be considered in choosing specifically matched at risk youth with positive role models who have similar ancestry. Forward thinking programs like this could make a huge difference, in all the impoverished communities.

As a white guy, I was also unaware of the loans I was eligible for until I walked myself onto a college campus, and a Black Female admission counselor told me first hand all the college grants and loans I could apply for and possibly get.

"For those who don't know, or did not go through this yourself: Grants are free education money you don't pay back, Loans are money you pay back".

I was working at the time, and occasionally would get checks in the mail. Instead of cashing them in and being stupid, I used those extra funds to help pay off my growing college loan debt to keep them as low as possible up until I graduated.

It took me 8 years to eventually finish it all up start to finish. But I was set in a solid paying job several years before my final graduation date. In the final two years I was just taking one class at a time until I finished up. I purchased my first house about 6 months before I even graduated.

Here is a pretty picture of my pup and I sitting in my backyard after graduation in front of a lilac bush, and lots of hard work to get to this point in life.

Image

And here is what being a Bulls fan for all these years though Pax's leadership, and also Covid-19 Home Isolation can do to what was once a young man over 20 years later (lol). By the time AK is done some of you youngsters out there may look as old as me.

Image

And that shirt I wore in the first pic, it's still in my closet! And may be older than a few of you here. Same guy, about 23 years later.
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Re: Just Sad, "Chicago sees deadliest Memorial Day weekend in four years" 

Post#1055 » by Michael Jackson » Fri Jun 19, 2020 10:23 pm

2018C3 wrote:
Dresden wrote:
chefo wrote:My perspective as a (white) guy who has had quite a few interactions with the decent folk in one of my city's really rough black neighborhoods through charity work. It's a lose, lose, really, and a human tragedy on a massive scale, and Orlando is nowhere near the level of violence of south Chicago, Baltimore or East LA.

Down here, you see local pastors, businessmen and many others of the Black community hustle like crazy to get a just few boys on the right track. At the same time, the local Bloods and Crips recruit middle-schoolers by the dozens every year, and do drive by shootings, armed car-jackings and beatings of random strangers as initiations. The Magic try to get players and staff to mentor kids in the ghetto. They are barely making a dent. My family worked with a kid who had been to Juvie three times before he had turned 14. Bright kid, but kept horrible company, mom was a non-functioning junkie and dad was in and out of jail throughout his whole childhood. He was smart enough to understand that the path he was headed, he'd either be dead or in prison for life, so with a little help, he managed to get his priorities straight and now has graduated high-school and is joining the army.

Just to make clear--these are problems ubiquitous to the urban black community even in a nice area like Central Florida. The 'resource officer', who is the armed cop on duty at the school my wife used to work at, a middle-aged black man, had almost no sympathy for these boys because every other day he had to drag somebody off to the precinct for dealing or mass fights. He called them punks and much worse. The black senior staff at the school did not care much for them either, and said it would be a miracle if they managed to get many of them out of middle school. Many couldn't read or write by 6th-7th grade, some already had kids. Somebody told me that 80% of the black kids in the school were from single parent family (read single mom), and a quarter were technically considered homeless. And at some point, the county instituted a ridiculous policy where to 'equalize' the rate at which black and other ethnicities were kicked out of school, many 'one-time' offenses like being caught with drugs on campus, or assault, were no longer enough for an expulsion. Which then promptly increased the actual number of transgressions and led to teachers literally being threatened by students because the kids sensed that they had the leverage on the staff. My wife left a year later, a year before her pension vested, after a student with documented violent history threatened to kill her in writing and the administrative staff did not even expel him. Crazily enough, the threat was enough for us to press charges (we didn't), but not enough for expulsion.

The boy we mentored simply said that in the hood you have to be hyper aggressive or else you're at the bottom of the food chain, and you'll get robbed, bullied and worse. It's really not a choice--but that creates a whole generation of urban black youth who are used to settling every dispute with fists, knifes and guns and who see the law being broken in their community all the time and that as being the status quo.

Combine that with the fact that cops usually come from the tail end of the curve in terms of aggressiveness and the desire to dominate through power, and you've got a no-win situation for everybody involved because they get to constantly interact with hyper-aggressive young men. And I really don't know how you fix that. To me, the solutions are probably so comprehensive in nature, both in the changing the policing and in trying to change the culture of youth violence, that they border on impossible to implement.

An officer I know, one of the nicest guys I've ever met, BTW, once told me that when in crisis, the only thoughts in your head are how to make sure you get home alive. He patrolled Disney much of the time, but patrolling the ghetto made him nervous as hell. His point was--when most of the violent crime in an entire city of a couple of million is committed in a 2x2 mile square, you as a cop know it because you live it every day so they are probably extra nervous and trigger happy because of the stress.

Anyhow, my limited and anecdotal perspective--when you put two hyper aggressive groups together, both of which are used to resolving conflict through force, you'll get violence and that to me looks like an unavoidable and really sad consequence.


Thanks for sharing that. It's a massive problem. We really need something like a Marshall Plan for our inner cities. LBJ had a war on poverty, that got derailed by the Vietnam War. We need something like that again- a massive investment in these communities to break the ugly cycle of violence and poverty. If we can afford to spend 150 million dollars on a single jet fighter plane, we can afford to address this.


Take once less fighter jet, and give positive volunteer pre-approved role models a $2000 tax break for time spent, with so many required hours a month. You instantly get 75,000 volunteers, and I bet you would see a big change. The kids in the most need, just need to be exposed to the outside world, and see there is another way out.

In a scenario like this, I think race should be considered in choosing specifically matched at risk youth with positive role models who have similar ancestry. Forward thinking programs like this could make a huge difference, in all the impoverished communities.

As a white guy, I was also unaware of the loans I was eligible for until I walked myself onto a college campus, and a Black Female admission counselor told me first hand all the college grants and loans I could apply for and possibly get.

"For those who don't know, or did not go through this yourself: Grants are free education money you don't pay back, Loans are money you pay back".

I was working at the time, and occasionally would get checks in the mail. Instead of cashing them in and being stupid, I used those extra funds to help pay off my growing college loan debt to keep them as low as possible up until I graduated.

It took me 8 years to eventually finish it all up start to finish. But I was set in a solid paying job several years before my final graduation date. In the final two years I was just taking one class at a time until I finished up. I purchased my first house about 6 months before I even graduated.

Here is a pretty picture of my pup and I sitting in my backyard after graduation in front of a lilac bush, and lots of hard work to get to this point in life.

Image


All of this is real good conversation. We have such a massive problem in these neighborhoods, there is no magic wand. Honestly there has to be something done to break that cycle of gangs upon gangs upon gangs. I get it if I was in that environment, I likely would be in a gang and most likely dead or if not probably climbing the ladder and recruiting more like an Amway salesman. Its a sick cycle and we truly just turn a blind eye mostly because there isn't a simple solution. We have to work on continual steps and programs, if they succeed or fail, keep pressing forward to change those environments.
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Re: Just Sad, "Chicago sees deadliest Memorial Day weekend in four years" 

Post#1056 » by Dresden » Fri Jun 19, 2020 11:23 pm

If we can come up with a trillion dollars to help the economy when a pandemic hits, why can't we find that money to revitalize our inner cities? The impact of poverty and violence on people living in slums is just as severe as the impact of the corona virus, and it's been going on for a hundred years.
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Re: Just Sad, "Chicago sees deadliest Memorial Day weekend in four years" 

Post#1057 » by Bluewaterheaven » Sun Jun 21, 2020 2:13 am

dougthonus wrote:
Bluewaterheaven wrote:
Dresden wrote:
If you mean that the DA did this for political reasons, I think you're right. I believe it will be hard to get a conviction on murder, but they did charge him with 11 crimes, so maybe he will be found guilty of a lesser charge. On the other hand, maybe it is a good thing in that is sends a message to police officers everywhere that they better be prepared for harsh consequences if they use excessive force.

It will be interesting to see what the police force's reaction to this will be- I expect there will be some strong pushback.


The police force walked out last night in protest.

Maybe instead we need to give them much better armor to withstand attempted lethal force against them and then bring in help if required or some other solution.


Lol, let’s cover all of our officers in level IV plate and ballistic face shields and send them out into the streets like the Master Chief.

Oh wait, you mean a 30-06 hunting round from a Remington 700 can still pierce that like butter and it would just make officers slow moving targets.

Great idea!

Don’t get me wrong, officers need better training, but disarming officers and telling them to go out into the field for 50k a year. I would hope every officer in the US would quit. Maybe the people who couldn’t get a job at McDonalds would take that job!
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Re: Just Sad, "Chicago sees deadliest Memorial Day weekend in four years" 

Post#1058 » by chitownsalesmen » Sun Jun 21, 2020 3:30 am

_txchilibowl_ wrote:He should be sitting in a jail cell right now...not laying in a morgue.



I'd rather be laying in the morgue.
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Re: Just Sad, "Chicago sees deadliest Memorial Day weekend in four years" 

Post#1059 » by musiqsoulchild » Sun Jun 21, 2020 6:11 am

Dresden wrote:If we can come up with a trillion dollars to help the economy when a pandemic hits, why can't we find that money to revitalize our inner cities? The impact of poverty and violence on people living in slums is just as severe as the impact of the corona virus, and it's been going on for a hundred years.


The sexy name for all that you and a couple of other posters are talking about is:

"Defund the Police"

In many ways, it's the same thing..if you want to really invest in these adverse neighborhoods in a way that as ACTUALLY solves the problem...then the budget cut has to come from somewhere.

And that somewhere is Military. It's the largest part of our budget at around 55 to 60 percent.

Yeah.....
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Re: Just Sad, "Chicago sees deadliest Memorial Day weekend in four years" 

Post#1060 » by musiqsoulchild » Sun Jun 21, 2020 6:12 am

chitownsalesmen wrote:
_txchilibowl_ wrote:He should be sitting in a jail cell right now...not laying in a morgue.



I'd rather be laying in the morgue.


And shouldnt that be his choice?

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