Just Sad, "Chicago sees deadliest Memorial Day weekend in four years"

[Dresden]

Earlier today, I just witnessed first hand my first protest. I drove out to the local bass pro, and on my way out traffic was slowed.

I will admit that street traffic was not stopped by the protesters themselves, but by the other cars driving past. Several of them stopped mid street, and started beeping the horns in support.

About 80% of the protesters (Who were standing on the side of street, and not blocking traffic looked to be younger than college age, with older adults leading the chants.

I got stuck on the Bay Bridge leading from Oakland to SF today for over 2 hours due to a protest. They say a bunch of vehicles just stopped on the bridge, and it took them that long to get them all moved apparently. What a bunch of angry motorists. These protestors just created about 2,000 new enemies. I don't know what they hope to accomplish by pulling a stunt like that. What if someone stuck in traffic had a medical emergency? What about all the people that might have to take a piss that are stuck in traffic? Really stupid move IMO.

[Dresden]

That's not ok.

That's why we are talking about this.

That is not justifiable anymore. It's the reason why the Police chief resigned immediately and the cop was fired.

We just cannot keep killing black men because we consider them more dangerous than a hite man in a similar situation.

Don't twist my words, Never once did I mention any person regardless of color should be treated differently. All criminals who break the law should be treated with the same law enforcement techniques.


As long as you brought up hit men. (I assume you mean people who shoot up public places), I have no problem with government taking them out at first opportunity. Any criminal who endangers a innocent life should be dealt with by law enforcement (not renegade civilians) in the same way.

I am saying drawing a gun ( lethal force) is not a good option and should be used very rarely.

And it's an option that is a lot more frequently used on black men than white men.

In this case though, and maybe I have the facts wrong, didn't the victim steal the officer's taser, and then point it at the officer?

[musiqsoulchild]

Don't twist my words, Never once did I mention any person regardless of color should be treated differently. All criminals who break the law should be treated with the same law enforcement techniques.


As long as you brought up hit men. (I assume you mean people who shoot up public places), I have no problem with government taking them out at first opportunity. Any criminal who endangers a innocent life should be dealt with by law enforcement (not renegade civilians) in the same way.

I am saying drawing a gun ( lethal force) is not a good option and should be used very rarely.

And it's an option that is a lot more frequently used on black men than white men.

In this case though, and maybe I have the facts wrong, didn't the victim steal the officer's taser, and then point it at the officer?

Dresden, I watched all 43 minutes of bodycam footage.

There was no reason for him to be killed.

He was shot twice in the back per autopsy just released

[musiqsoulchild]

To add:

Rashard punched a cop in the face and teased another.

He should be in a jail cell now in Atlanta awaiting his public defender and a likely lengthy prison term.

Not dead on the street.

[Dresden]

I didn't see the tape. Just read that he had stole the cop's taser and was allegedly pointing it at them.

[gardenofsound]

Do people realize that that there are several countries who immigrate here and achieve higher success than native born Americans.

Here is a list in order:
India
Taiwan
France
Russia
Bulgaria
Spain
Turkey
China
Malaysia
Iran
Nigeria

On the bottom of this top performing list of immigrants is Nigeria. Today, 29% of Nigerian-Americans over the age of 25 hold a graduate degree, compared to 11% of the overall U.S. population.” Nigerian-Americans, are one of America’s “most successful immigrant communities, with a median household income of $62,351, compared to $57,617 nationally.

If America is as racist as the media leads us all to believe, Why can people from other countries and from diverse skin tones come here, and consistently out perform our native population?

I have consistently seen this in the work place. Many Florien born co-workers place a way higher emphasis on achievement in education than the typical home land born American.

People still come to this country with a dream, and with hard work they achieve it.

How many C-level Nigerians are there? I've met many Nigerians, met a few particularly during college (engineering).

I don't know any Nigerians who have made it to the C suite.

Generally speaking, the only folks I've ever seen in the C suite are white and Indian. Even southeast Asians (including Chinese) have a lot of hurdles getting to that level.

That's kind of the point here. Even if you have the qualifications, you still have a bunch of other hurdles to go through.

Also... and I have to stress this because it's really important.

Almost all of the folks from the countries you mention came here under the following conditions:

1. They came here willfully, and very frequently to further the affluence they already had in their former country.
2. They initially came here to attend college, grad school, or a PhD program, then decided to stay.

In other words, they were already the cream of the crop in the country they came from. That's a BIG part of why they were even able to get a visa to come here!

This is the fallacy of "model minorities."

I am second gen Indian American, BTW. I have seen this across much of my family that came here.

[musiqsoulchild]

Do people realize that that there are several countries who immigrate here and achieve higher success than native born Americans.

Here is a list in order:
India
Taiwan
France
Russia
Bulgaria
Spain
Turkey
China
Malaysia
Iran
Nigeria

On the bottom of this top performing list of immigrants is Nigeria. Today, 29% of Nigerian-Americans over the age of 25 hold a graduate degree, compared to 11% of the overall U.S. population.” Nigerian-Americans, are one of America’s “most successful immigrant communities, with a median household income of $62,351, compared to $57,617 nationally.

If America is as racist as the media leads us all to believe, Why can people from other countries and from diverse skin tones come here, and consistently out perform our native population?

I have consistently seen this in the work place. Many Florien born co-workers place a way higher emphasis on achievement in education than the typical home land born American.

People still come to this country with a dream, and with hard work they achieve it.

How many C-level Nigerians are there? I've met many Nigerians, met a few particularly during college (engineering).

I don't know any Nigerians who have made it to the C suite.

Generally speaking, the only folks I've ever seen in the C suite are white and Indian. Even southeast Asians (including Chinese) have a lot of hurdles getting to that level.

That's kind of the point here. Even if you have the qualifications, you still have a bunch of other hurdles to go through.

Also... and I have to stress this because it's really important.

Almost all of the folks from the countries you mention came here under the following conditions:

1. They came here willfully, and very frequently to further the affluence they already had in their former country.
2. They initially came here to attend college, grad school, or a PhD program, then decided to stay.

In other words, they were already the cream of the crop in the country they came from. That's a BIG part of why they were even able to get a visa to come here!

This is the fallacy of "model minorities."

I am second gen Indian American, BTW. I have seen this across much of my family that came here.

Nailed it.

A lot of Indian Americans who immigrate here already have privilege.

They come from wealthy and/or educated families.

I am also Indian American. And whilst not wealthy, my family was highly educated. And that helped me immensely.

[Dresden]

I just watched the video of the Brooks killing, and I agree- he did not have to be killed. He was at fault for resisting arrest, but the cops were not in immediate danger. And they could have shot him in the leg or something. I know they aren't trained to do that, but in this case, they were close enough that they could have done that pretty easily. There were no other people around that might have been hit. It's a shame he had to die for just being drunk and disorderly. That said, I'm not sure the outcome would have been different had he been white.

[dice]

I just watched the video of the Brooks killing, and I agree- he did not have to be killed. He was at fault for resisting arrest, but the cops were not in immediate danger. And they could have shot him in the leg or something. I know they aren't trained to do that, but in this case, they were close enough that they could have done that pretty easily. There were no other people around that might have been hit. It's a shame he had to die for just being drunk and disorderly. That said, I'm not sure the outcome would have been different had he been white.

yeah, given that the guy stole a taser and fired it at a cop while being pursued, it's unfortunately not shocking to see him get shot. the cop who pulled the trigger multiple times let his prideful emotions get the better of him

absolutely nothing should happen to the other cop, who did nothing wrong. and for the wendy's to get burned down simply because it was the site of the incident is nonsensical

[dice]

[musiqsoulchild]

I just watched the video of the Brooks killing, and I agree- he did not have to be killed. He was at fault for resisting arrest, but the cops were not in immediate danger. And they could have shot him in the leg or something. I know they aren't trained to do that, but in this case, they were close enough that they could have done that pretty easily. There were no other people around that might have been hit. It's a shame he had to die for just being drunk and disorderly. That said, I'm not sure the outcome would have been different had he been white.

The first 40 minutes or so..try to think of Rashard as a white kid in New Orleans during Mardi Gras.

Or even just a club going youngster in Downtown Chicago puking and making a scene in front of cops.

The outcome would have been different.

This is how tone deaf cops are. The entire country is protesting EXACTLY this. Do not kill our black men.

And that's exactly what happens.

[Dresden]

I just watched the video of the Brooks killing, and I agree- he did not have to be killed. He was at fault for resisting arrest, but the cops were not in immediate danger. And they could have shot him in the leg or something. I know they aren't trained to do that, but in this case, they were close enough that they could have done that pretty easily. There were no other people around that might have been hit. It's a shame he had to die for just being drunk and disorderly. That said, I'm not sure the outcome would have been different had he been white.

The first 40 minutes or so..try to think of Rashard as a white kid in New Orleans during Mardi Gras.

Or even just a club going youngster in Downtown Chicago puking and making a scene in front of cops.

The outcome would have been different.

This is how tone deaf cops are. The entire country is protesting EXACTLY this. Do not kill our black men.

And that's exactly what happens.

I just saw the condensed version- about a minute and a half. I really don't know how it might have been different if it was one of those situations you mentioned. And I agree, you would think that with all the scrutiny going on right now, police captains would be ordering their officers on a daily basis, to avoid using lethal force whenever possible. But then again, I thought they'd get that message after Ferguson, and it's happened how many more times since then?

[musiqsoulchild]

I just watched the video of the Brooks killing, and I agree- he did not have to be killed. He was at fault for resisting arrest, but the cops were not in immediate danger. And they could have shot him in the leg or something. I know they aren't trained to do that, but in this case, they were close enough that they could have done that pretty easily. There were no other people around that might have been hit. It's a shame he had to die for just being drunk and disorderly. That said, I'm not sure the outcome would have been different had he been white.

The first 40 minutes or so..try to think of Rashard as a white kid in New Orleans during Mardi Gras.

Or even just a club going youngster in Downtown Chicago puking and making a scene in front of cops.

The outcome would have been different.

This is how tone deaf cops are. The entire country is protesting EXACTLY this. Do not kill our black men.

And that's exactly what happens.

I just saw the condensed version- about a minute and a half. I really don't know how it might have been different if it was one of those situations you mentioned. And I agree, you would think that with all the scrutiny going on right now, police captains would be ordering their officers on a daily basis, to avoid using lethal force whenever possible. But then again, I thought they'd get that message after Ferguson, and it's happened how many more times since then?

Yeah Dresden.

The first 40 minutes are like just hanging out. Joking with the cops. Cops building camaraderie. Asking questions.

And then in the last 2 minutes...everything escalates and results in death.

The escalation is asymptote like. It's incredibly difficult to believe based on the first 40 minutes that someone's going to die.

And of course, it's the black man.

[2018C3]

I also watched all 43 minutes of body cam footage, and have to say I liked the guy. I think if I met him in him another life we could have been friends.

I also watched another video that has been deleted now, that shows brooks punching the offer, struggling on the ground with two officers , grabbing the taser, running off and reaching backwards with it pointed at the officer.

It should have not ended this way, but it was his actions that brought upon this particular result. There is literally just a few seconds between the time he punched the officer, got up on his feet, and pointed the taser back before he was shot.

The officers just got out of a struggle on the ground, One was punched in the face, and under those circumstances they are now supposed to always make the right choice? That's just ridiculous to expect, just like it was ridiculous for Brooks to to escalate the situation in the first place. Know-one in that situation is thinking strait in that moment including both Brooks, and the officers.

He could have easily walked away unharmed with just a DUI charge if he did not initiate the conflict.

[musiqsoulchild]

I also watched all 43 minutes of body cam footage, and have to say I liked the guy. I think if I met him in him another life we could have been friends.

I also watched another video that has been deleted now, that shows brooks punching the offer, struggling on the ground with two officers , grabbing the taser, running off and reaching backwards with it pointed at the officer.

It should have not ended this way, but it was his actions that brought upon this particular result. There is literally just a few seconds between the time he punched the officer, got up on his feet, and pointed the taser back before he was shot.

The officers just got out of a struggle on the ground, One was punched in the face, and under those circumstances they are now supposed to always make the right choice? That's just ridiculous to expect, just like it was ridiculous for Brooks to to escalate the situation in the first place. Know-one in that situation is thinking strait in that moment including both Brooks, and the officers.

He could have easily walked away unharmed with just a DUI charge if he did not initiate the conflict.

Except one is a guy who was drunk and falling asleep. And at a high blood alchohol level. And obviously incapable of making good decisions.

And the other is a trained cop.

Who just got punched in his face. And couldn't control his emotions.

[Dresden]

Ive read, and I don't know if this is true or not- it's hard to find this info on the internet, that Brooks has had multiple incidences in the past of resisting arrest, as well as a charge of felony child abuse. I wonder if the officers had looked up his record before they proceeded the way they did with him, and if that had any impact on how he was treated.

[2018C3]

musiqsoulchild, You don't think being in a actual fight that could possibly result in life or death alters your cognitive abilities as well? That is just silly.

[RastaBull]

I also watched all 43 minutes of body cam footage, and have to say I liked the guy. I think if I met him in him another life we could have been friends.

I also watched another video that has been deleted now, that shows brooks punching the offer, struggling on the ground with two officers , grabbing the taser, running off and reaching backwards with it pointed at the officer.

It should have not ended this way, but it was his actions that brought upon this particular result. There is literally just a few seconds between the time he punched the officer, got up on his feet, and pointed the taser back before he was shot.

The officers just got out of a struggle on the ground, One was punched in the face, and under those circumstances they are now supposed to always make the right choice? That's just ridiculous to expect, just like it was ridiculous for Brooks to to escalate the situation in the first place. Know-one in that situation is thinking strait in that moment including both Brooks, and the officers.

He could have easily walked away unharmed with just a DUI charge if he did not initiate the conflict.

Except one is a guy who was drunk and falling asleep. And at a high blood alchohol level. And obviously incapable of making good decisions.

And the other is a trained cop.

Who just got punched in his face. And couldn't control his emotions.

There is no reason he should have been shot at with a bullet, no reason a gun should have been fired in any regard. That use of force should be clearly deemed excessive in our society in this exact type of situation (the punch and run)

1) This guy was searched by cops thoroughly and completely.
2) They know, by the time the scuffle happens and he runs away, that he has no weapons on his body except for the single shot taser gun that he fled with
3) He fired the taser gun, the prongs did not hit anyone, they fell to the ground. (I'm a public defender in Brooklyn so I see body cam footage often and use of taser guns often; you can see in the video this taser gun fire prongs that are connected to the gun, and you can see the prongs go up in the air when fired and the line to gun isn't long enough to reach the cops, so it goes up and falls down to ground)
4) At this point every officer on the scene knows Mr. Brooks has NO WEAPONS or dangerous instruments on his body at all.
5) All officers are aware he was stopped for sleeping in his car and possible DWI arrest; NOTHING indicating violent actions toward public safety
6) At this point no officer has fired a weapon

Therefore, when the cops fire live rounds, when they make choice to use DEADLY FORCE, they do so with full knowledge that this man is NOT A THREAT to the public. These shots are fired into his back, a man fleeing with no operable weapons or instruments on him and they are FULLY aware of this

This society has gone through decades (centuries) of desensitization to police violence. I think what I'm seeing some of peers write after watching the video shows just how hard it is to break that desensitization and how different communities (usually distinguished be race but not always) "trust" officers' decisions. On one hand, you watch it and very much say, "this should not have happened, he should absolutely still be alive." But even those readily admitting that still have a gut reaction that "he punched him, he ran, he took a taser" and put, to some degree, blame on him for where he ended up.

We can not allow ourselves to do that. Every police interaction should involve intense scrutiny. If officers can't be held to the highest threshold of using deadly force, then they shouldn't have the capability to use deadly force at all.

I can't repeat enough ... the truth is ... THEY SHOT A MAN WHO HAD NO WEAPONS ON HIM! If you quote the taser then let me ask you, if someone had a gun and was running, and they turned around and threw the gun at an officer and missed, then kept running ... do they still have a weapon???? Does it make sense to THEN fire multiple rounds into his back????

[2018C3]

Ahmaud Arbery, Shooters were wrong in instigating the situation. The George Floyd situation has no excuse.

Rayshard Brooks is a different case, and can not be lumped in to the others. I could care less what color he is, the guy determined his own fate with his own actions.

[RastaBull]

I'd also add, to the point that this would be different if Mr. Brooks was white: I will confidently say absolutely (just my opinion). Sooooo many reasons, some more persuasive than others to be sure. But here's just a quick couple obvious notes

1) Why did a cop use deadly force if there was no threat to public safety at the time he fired his gun?
One very possible answer is that to an officer, simply being a "black man" makes him a threat to public safety. In ways that officers clearly do not project onto a white man. Implicit bias and the United States is peanut butter and jelly. It is so engrained in our society that that projection of "violent black man" is projected by white and black communities. This is scientifically tested, this not debatable as a societal problem. Can I say with certainty that that is exactly what happened here? No, but it is so ever present in our communities that it cannot be ignored.

2) Vicarious trauma as a black man in the U.S. is not shared with a white man
Mr. Brooks and all of Black America just watched George Floyd's death played over and over. Men like Mr. Brooks have watched other black men murdered by police while in police custody time and time again. That is vicarious trauma. They have seen men do everything correct in an encounter with officers, and then be restrained, arms twisted and body shoved, choked, and shot. That is vicarious trauma. When people yell "SAY THEIR NAMES" it's a fallacy, because there are sooooo many names you cannot say them all.
That is vicarious trauma.

So yes, after 40 minutes and everything calm and he's doing everything he's "supposed to," then the cuffs come out and they grab his arms behind his back, that's vicarious trauma. That is triggering in a way that most white men under the exact same scenario cannot understand. A white man may not run, but it's not simply because he has a better temperament; a white men enters that exchange knowing his life isn't at risk simply because of the color of his skin.


Only tuned into this thread for last couple pages. Very inviting conservation, hope my tone is not read to cut that off. Much respect. One Love.