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Cowley : Ime Udoka HC Frontrunner for Bulls

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Re: Cowley : Ime Udoka HC Frontrunner for Bulls 

Post#141 » by dougthonus » Fri Jun 19, 2020 1:49 am

Jcool0 wrote:He clearly did not make the best decision. He went 121-167 in NY. While in Chicago he would of had a playoff team and a still healthy Rose.


Based purely on his opportunity to win, I would agree. Based on other factors in his life, such as career earnings, I would disagree. I'm not sure where I would be on that line myself if I were in his shoes. Say the Bulls offered him 20M with a much better roster, that might have been compelling because when you're so rich who cares? On the other hand, NY may have had its appeal as a city or other factors going for it, and at the end of the day, 4M extra dollars is pretty awesome.

Also he was looking for something to talk to Chicago and act like he wasn't interested in NY. There was no reason to do that if he was just going to sign with the Knicks. "I'm talking to Chicago and they are interested. If you want me blow me away and i'm yours"


Not sure what you mean by this. He was clearly interested in NY given that he interviewed there and took their call. I'm sure he was also interested in the Bulls or any coaching opportunities.
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Re: Cowley : Ime Udoka HC Frontrunner for Bulls 

Post#142 » by StunnerKO » Fri Jun 19, 2020 1:49 am

dougthonus wrote:
StunnerKO wrote:
HomoSapien wrote:
It's really not though. We ended up with Del Negro and D'Antoni would've been better. That tangent aside, what about the other post?

But then we prob never get Thibs or those Bulls teams


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Something tells me based on history that Mike D'Antoni might have done something pretty special with Gordon / Rose as his two guards.

And what defense?


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Re: Cowley : Ime Udoka HC Frontrunner for Bulls 

Post#143 » by HomoSapien » Fri Jun 19, 2020 1:55 am

StunnerKO wrote:
dougthonus wrote:
StunnerKO wrote:But then we prob never get Thibs or those Bulls teams


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Something tells me based on history that Mike D'Antoni might have done something pretty special with Gordon / Rose as his two guards.

And what defense?


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Whether or not you personally like D'Antoni is not the point. I brought up D'Antonio because it was an example of a coach our front-office wanted but lost out on because our ownership was too slow to act. Paxson met with D'Antoni twice before Reinsdorf got involved and was unwilling to commit to offering a contract after a third meeting, even though he was onboard with D'Antoni. Paxson's gone (sort of), but the Reinsdorfs are still here and yet again we're in a situation where our front-office is being slowed down because they're getting in the way of a coaching search.
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Re: Cowley : Ime Udoka HC Frontrunner for Bulls 

Post#144 » by PrimzyBulls81 » Fri Jun 19, 2020 5:05 am

Wtf are we still waiting for with Jimbo?? Do what is right for the team, not what is right for the public. Get a new coach asap... Before other teams snatch them away.
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Re: Cowley : Ime Udoka HC Frontrunner for Bulls 

Post#145 » by sco » Fri Jun 19, 2020 12:22 pm

I do hope the FO gives a call to the Spurs to interview Hammond and give her real consideration. And if she is the best candidate to hire her. I personally would prefer an experienced HC over her, Udoka or Griffen just because I don't want to add another HC's learning curve to our timeline.
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Re: Cowley : Ime Udoka HC Frontrunner for Bulls 

Post#146 » by Jcool0 » Fri Jun 19, 2020 4:25 pm

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Re: Cowley : Ime Udoka HC Frontrunner for Bulls 

Post#147 » by samwana » Fri Jun 19, 2020 4:36 pm

Anyone really think this is doing it right with Boylen? I don't think it is. I think it is trying to not hurt owners and Paxsons feelings. Imo it is the exact opposite as doi g it right to the coach. He is being on hold forever, there is a lot of talk about his successor, he is getting ripped over and over again in the press, ridiculed for his actions etc. AK could have talked to him a lot, to the players about him and with ME etc.
The only thing that really interesting is, what's going on? Why is there a hold up after they were relatively quick hiring AK and ME. Does Boylen really have fans in the org?
AK could have talked to him on person if that would have been the holdup, or isn't it allowed in the US to talk to one person?
AK should just be straight and fire him already.. There is no way Boylen is the best coach for this team..

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Re: Cowley : Ime Udoka HC Frontrunner for Bulls 

Post#148 » by Jcool0 » Fri Jun 19, 2020 4:59 pm

samwana wrote:Anyone really think this is doing it right with Boylen? I don't think it is. I think it is trying to not hurt owners and Paxsons feelings. Imo it is the exact opposite as doi g it right to the coach. He is being on hold forever, there is a lot of talk about his successor, he is getting ripped over and over again in the press, ridiculed for his actions etc. AK could have talked to him a lot, to the players about him and with ME etc.
The only thing that really interesting is, what's going on? Why is there a hold up after they were relatively quick hiring AK and ME. Does Boylen really have fans in the org?
AK could have talked to him on person if that would have been the holdup, or isn't it allowed in the US to talk to one person?
AK should just be straight and fire him already.. There is no way Boylen is the best coach for this team..

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He isn't in Chicago yet & i assume the plan is to meet with him in person before terminating him.
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Re: Cowley : Ime Udoka HC Frontrunner for Bulls 

Post#149 » by MrFortune3 » Sat Jun 20, 2020 1:42 am

HomoSapien wrote:
MrFortune3 wrote:
HomoSapien wrote:BTW, we've lost a coach to the Knicks before because they acted more swiftly than us in Mike D'Antoni.


And you answered your own question. You think us missing out on him is a bad thing? :lol:


It's really not though. We ended up with Del Negro and D'Antoni would've been better. That tangent aside, what about the other post?


D'Antoni wasn't going to turn that team into a contender. He was not invested in the need for defense at that point in his coaching career.
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Re: Cowley : Ime Udoka HC Frontrunner for Bulls 

Post#150 » by MrFortune3 » Sat Jun 20, 2020 1:44 am

dougthonus wrote:
StunnerKO wrote:
HomoSapien wrote:
It's really not though. We ended up with Del Negro and D'Antoni would've been better. That tangent aside, what about the other post?

But then we prob never get Thibs or those Bulls teams


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Something tells me based on history that Mike D'Antoni might have done something pretty special with Gordon / Rose as his two guards.


I think that he would have worn out his welcome very quickly. He would have been viewed as a stepping stone coach due to the flaws on defense.
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Re: Cowley : Ime Udoka HC Frontrunner for Bulls 

Post#151 » by samwana » Sat Jun 20, 2020 8:56 am

Jcool0 wrote:
samwana wrote:Anyone really think this is doing it right with Boylen? I don't think it is. I think it is trying to not hurt owners and Paxsons feelings. Imo it is the exact opposite as doi g it right to the coach. He is being on hold forever, there is a lot of talk about his successor, he is getting ripped over and over again in the press, ridiculed for his actions etc. AK could have talked to him a lot, to the players about him and with ME etc.
The only thing that really interesting is, what's going on? Why is there a hold up after they were relatively quick hiring AK and ME. Does Boylen really have fans in the org?
AK could have talked to him on person if that would have been the holdup, or isn't it allowed in the US to talk to one person?
AK should just be straight and fire him already.. There is no way Boylen is the best coach for this team..

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He isn't in Chicago yet & i assume the plan is to meet with him in person before terminating him.
Than why not meet him. They're able to do that? Even with all the pandemic rules it is possible to meet one person. And it can't be used as an excuse forever. It's getting to a point where it looks unprofessional. Force a meeting and decide.

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Re: Cowley : Ime Udoka HC Frontrunner for Bulls 

Post#152 » by erlim » Sat Jun 20, 2020 9:59 am

Jcool0 wrote:
samwana wrote:Anyone really think this is doing it right with Boylen? I don't think it is. I think it is trying to not hurt owners and Paxsons feelings. Imo it is the exact opposite as doi g it right to the coach. He is being on hold forever, there is a lot of talk about his successor, he is getting ripped over and over again in the press, ridiculed for his actions etc. AK could have talked to him a lot, to the players about him and with ME etc.
The only thing that really interesting is, what's going on? Why is there a hold up after they were relatively quick hiring AK and ME. Does Boylen really have fans in the org?
AK could have talked to him on person if that would have been the holdup, or isn't it allowed in the US to talk to one person?
AK should just be straight and fire him already.. There is no way Boylen is the best coach for this team..

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He isn't in Chicago yet & i assume the plan is to meet with him in person before terminating him.


If that’s the case, Jimbo is probably going to just wait until December comes and the season is underway to return to Chicago in hopes that they can’t fire him.
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Re: Cowley : Ime Udoka HC Frontrunner for Bulls 

Post#153 » by dougthonus » Sat Jun 20, 2020 10:54 am

MrFortune3 wrote:I think that he would have worn out his welcome very quickly. He would have been viewed as a stepping stone coach due to the flaws on defense.


Why do you think he would have "worn out his welcome"? Players seem to love him, and his style of coaching would have made Rose and Gordon fit together amazingly in those early years.

Lots of interesting what ifs, if we had hired D'Antoni. If the team was playing much better / more exciting, would 2010 FA have worked out different? If we never hire Thibodeau, do Rose and Noah not get worn into the ground and have their careers ruined?

Either way, I'm not saying we were going to have our 7th banner if D'Antoni is here, but based on his history and the Bulls roster, I think he would have found a lot of success early on, we would have had a fun team. I don't think Rose would have torn his ACL in this case, but I also don't think that's a fair thing to lump into the equation because changing almost anything make that true.
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Re: Cowley : Ime Udoka HC Frontrunner for Bulls 

Post#154 » by Showtime23 » Sat Jun 20, 2020 11:37 am

HomoSapien wrote:BTW, we've lost a coach to the Knicks before because they acted more swiftly than us in Mike D'Antoni.


So its true Bulls have a even worse reputation judging those candidates are taking Knicks interview.
AK hiring so far has changed nothing. Culture takes yrs if not decades.
Guys saying the Bulls have nothing to lose by not firing Boylen doesnt know what they are talking about or didnt work for corporation before.
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Re: Cowley : Ime Udoka HC Frontrunner for Bulls 

Post#155 » by Showtime23 » Sat Jun 20, 2020 11:39 am

dougthonus wrote:
MrFortune3 wrote:I think that he would have worn out his welcome very quickly. He would have been viewed as a stepping stone coach due to the flaws on defense.


Why do you think he would have "worn out his welcome"? Players seem to love him, and his style of coaching would have made Rose and Gordon fit together amazingly in those early years.

Lots of interesting what ifs, if we had hired D'Antoni. If the team was playing much better / more exciting, would 2010 FA have worked out different? If we never hire Thibodeau, do Rose and Noah not get worn into the ground and have their careers ruined?

Either way, I'm not saying we were going to have our 7th banner if D'Antoni is here, but based on his history and the Bulls roster, I think he would have found a lot of success early on, we would have had a fun team. I don't think Rose would have torn his ACL in this case, but I also don't think that's a fair thing to lump into the equation because changing almost anything make that true.


Why would the Bulls ever hire Dantoni? Hes the worst hire possible.
Even if he was the best coach according to your theory, we dont want old grandpas coaching only to get rioted by Mr Lavine.
Add Corona and hiring old coaches is a death sentence to your franchise.
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Re: Cowley : Ime Udoka HC Frontrunner for Bulls 

Post#156 » by dougthonus » Sat Jun 20, 2020 11:49 am

Showtime23 wrote:Why would the Bulls ever hire Dantoni? Hes the worst hire possible.
Even if he was the best coach according to your theory, we dont want old grandpas coaching only to get rioted by Mr Lavine.
Add Corona and hiring old coaches is a death sentence to your franchise.


I don't know whether to laugh or cry about the fact that you just jump into a conversation to bash someone, make discriminatory comments, and can't even be bothered to understand the context of the conversation you are bashing enough to know what decade it takes place in.

Definitely should not have hired D'Antoni in 2008 because he was too old and coronavirus was a big concern at the time.
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Re: Cowley : Ime Udoka HC Frontrunner for Bulls 

Post#157 » by dougthonus » Sat Jun 20, 2020 12:28 pm

Showtime23 wrote:AK hiring so far has changed nothing. Culture takes yrs if not decades.


I don't think you understand NBA culture well. This isn't a 100,000 employee firm where 95% of the staff remains the same year over year. In that case culture might take a decade to build and change and is probably durable.

Due to the high turnover of staff (coaching and players), culture changes extremely quickly in the NBA (both improving and worsening). Culture is also extremely weighted towards results in the NBA. I think culture in the NBA is often a result of your record rather than a cause of your record (regardless of whether you are good or bad).
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Re: Cowley : Ime Udoka HC Frontrunner for Bulls 

Post#158 » by MrFortune3 » Sat Jun 20, 2020 1:59 pm

dougthonus wrote:
MrFortune3 wrote:I think that he would have worn out his welcome very quickly. He would have been viewed as a stepping stone coach due to the flaws on defense.


Why do you think he would have "worn out his welcome"? Players seem to love him, and his style of coaching would have made Rose and Gordon fit together amazingly in those early years.

Lots of interesting what ifs, if we had hired D'Antoni. If the team was playing much better / more exciting, would 2010 FA have worked out different? If we never hire Thibodeau, do Rose and Noah not get worn into the ground and have their careers ruined?

Either way, I'm not saying we were going to have our 7th banner if D'Antoni is here, but based on his history and the Bulls roster, I think he would have found a lot of success early on, we would have had a fun team. I don't think Rose would have torn his ACL in this case, but I also don't think that's a fair thing to lump into the equation because changing almost anything make that true.


Why do I think that? Because that’s what he always does. He comes in with fanfare, makes the team exciting and then he gets broomed when he doesn’t get the team to a certain level.

Far as injuries go, Rose was going to get hurt no matter who was the coach. Injuries happen, people always point to wear and tear but he got hurt and then kept being injury prone after that until his resurgence. Injuries happen in sports, far too much on the Bulls for my liking but sometimes that’s just luck of the draw.

I don’t think D’Antoni’s presence would have changed much about that era other than the defensive identity we had.
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Re: Cowley : Ime Udoka HC Frontrunner for Bulls 

Post#159 » by dougthonus » Sat Jun 20, 2020 4:51 pm

MrFortune3 wrote:Why do I think that? Because that’s what he always does. He comes in with fanfare, makes the team exciting and then he gets broomed when he doesn’t get the team to a certain level.


I guess, but that isn't unique to D'Antoni. That's literally the case with any coach that doesn't win a title, which is typically more about talent than coach.

Far as injuries go, Rose was going to get hurt no matter who was the coach. Injuries happen, people always point to wear and tear but he got hurt and then kept being injury prone after that until his resurgence. Injuries happen in sports, far too much on the Bulls for my liking but sometimes that’s just luck of the draw.


Of course.

I don’t think D’Antoni’s presence would have changed much about that era other than the defensive identity we had.


I think it would have been totally different, maybe not better, but I think totally different. As an example, one of the worst things, IMO, that Thibodeau did was keep Korver as bench player and tried to make him the scoring option off the bench instead of making him the guy who provides space for Derrick Rose. All of the analytics and on/off numbers screamed that this was just an awful idea, and there's no way D'Antoni would have done that.

At any rate, I don't think the Bulls had the talent to win unless Rose had stayed healthier, and I'm not suggesting they would have been radically better, but I do think you would have seen a different style team and the Bulls likely would have been top 2 in offensive efficiency instead of in the middle tier.
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Re: Cowley : Ime Udoka HC Frontrunner for Bulls 

Post#160 » by MrFortune3 » Sat Jun 20, 2020 5:19 pm

dougthonus wrote:
MrFortune3 wrote:Why do I think that? Because that’s what he always does. He comes in with fanfare, makes the team exciting and then he gets broomed when he doesn’t get the team to a certain level.


I guess, but that isn't unique to D'Antoni. That's literally the case with any coach that doesn't win a title, which is typically more about talent than coach.

Far as injuries go, Rose was going to get hurt no matter who was the coach. Injuries happen, people always point to wear and tear but he got hurt and then kept being injury prone after that until his resurgence. Injuries happen in sports, far too much on the Bulls for my liking but sometimes that’s just luck of the draw.


Of course.

I don’t think D’Antoni’s presence would have changed much about that era other than the defensive identity we had.


I think it would have been totally different, maybe not better, but I think totally different. As an example, one of the worst things, IMO, that Thibodeau did was keep Korver as bench player and tried to make him the scoring option off the bench instead of making him the guy who provides space for Derrick Rose. All of the analytics and on/off numbers screamed that this was just an awful idea, and there's no way D'Antoni would have done that.

At any rate, I don't think the Bulls had the talent to win unless Rose had stayed healthier, and I'm not suggesting they would have been radically better, but I do think you would have seen a different style team and the Bulls likely would have been top 2 in offensive efficiency instead of in the middle tier.


I agree that's typical of coaches but I am not fan of D'Antoni so it clouds my comments on him more than I likely rationally should comment on.

I have no doubt that we would have seen a much stronger offensive identity with D'Antoni as HC vs Thibs.
Probably a much flashier and fast paced style of play with maybe even more accolades for Rose.

My issue is that I don't think we would have felt the same about the chances of winning a title with him as HC. But again, I am no fan of D'Antoni so I am biased when judging him as a HC.

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