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Growing number of players are expressing concern about resuming season, young stars want league paid insurance

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Re: Growing number of players are expressing concern about resuming season, young stars want league paid insurance 

Post#21 » by MrFortune3 » Sun Jun 14, 2020 1:43 am

There is no legitimate reason to miss games at this time. Once you go into that bubble you would essentially have the potential to have a sterile environment with a far less chance of catching COVID-19 and rallying in the streets to march with untested strangers.

A good portion of the stars in the league have already been paid in full as far as the star players and max contract guys go.
The guys who make up the bulk of NBA rosters still need to work and provide income for their families.
Kyrie is already done for the season, if guys want to sit out then let them sit, but from an social impact and even a monetary standpoint, it's best to go on with the season.

Imagine the eyeballs glued to the screen watching NBA players and what they are doing and saying, imagine the impact this could have on millions of people, imagine the impact this would have when it comes time for people to vote for their senators, governors, mayors and etc in the future.
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Re: Growing number of players are expressing concern about resuming season 

Post#22 » by PlayerUp » Sun Jun 14, 2020 4:22 am

MalagaBulls wrote:
Read on Twitter


Image

https://nypost.com/2016/06/30/kyrie-irving-still-defending-the-women-at-his-bikini-yacht-party/
https://www.theroot.com/here-s-the-real-reason-black-women-are-upset-about-kyri-1790855836

Kyrie maybe not the best example to represent the NBA and racial discrimination when he himself has issues in the past.

That being said, nobody cares what NBA players are doing in the offseason here. If they want to make a stance, then resuming basketball, playing well and using the NBA platform as a way to get their voices out is the #1 their opinions can get to the mass audiences.
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Re: Growing number of players are expressing concern about resuming season 

Post#23 » by Kurt Heimlich » Sun Jun 14, 2020 5:35 am

PlayerUp wrote:
MalagaBulls wrote:
Read on Twitter


Image

https://nypost.com/2016/06/30/kyrie-irving-still-defending-the-women-at-his-bikini-yacht-party/
https://www.theroot.com/here-s-the-real-reason-black-women-are-upset-about-kyri-1790855836

Kyrie maybe not the best example to represent the NBA and racial discrimination when he himself has issues in the past.

That being said, nobody cares what NBA players are doing in the offseason here. If they want to make a stance, then resuming basketball, playing well and using the NBA platform as a way to get their voices out is the #1 their opinions can get to the mass audiences.


Kyrie is legitimately one of the dumbest (and/or douchiest) personalities in the NBA. I'm struggling to understand why this wanna be intellectual, flat earther has such supposed clout in this whole thing.
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Re: Growing number of players are expressing concern about resuming season 

Post#24 » by Little Nathan » Sun Jun 14, 2020 8:20 am

Kurt Heimlich wrote:Kyrie is legitimately one of the dumbest (and/or douchiest) personalities in the NBA. I'm struggling to understand why this wanna be intellectual, flat earther has such supposed clout in this whole thing.


He's the vice president of the NBPA, that's why. It's really simple.
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Re: Growing number of players are expressing concern about resuming season, young stars want league paid insurance 

Post#25 » by Little Nathan » Sun Jun 14, 2020 8:25 am

dougthonus wrote:
Little Nathan wrote:The Kyrie hate right now is really weird to me and I say that as someone who usually disagrees with everything Kyrie says or does. He brings up valid points to discuss with the players around the league. Seems like something the vice president of the players association should do right now or am I missing something?

That Woj piece was really dumb IMO.


:dontknow:

If they boycott over safety, that may be a valid point.

If they boycott over black lives matter, then obviously up to them (and they may bare the financial outcomes of doing so), but unlike the NFL, the NBA has been extremely supportive of its players supporting social issues. That feels to me like a misstep and conflating two unrelated things.

If you want to support BLM, then donate then play, speak about it in every media interview, and donate the extra 100M-200M you get in salary to the cause. Boycotting is going to have a lot less impact than that IMO.


Completely fair to see it that way and I would agree, actually. I still think most of the questions he raised are at least worth discussing (and many players seem to agree) and that the anti-Kyrie people are more focused on the messenger than the actual message here, which is not fair IMO.
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Re: Growing number of players are expressing concern about resuming season, young stars want league paid insurance 

Post#26 » by sonny » Sun Jun 14, 2020 9:12 am

He's the VP of the NBAPA and is clearly voicing the concerns some of the other players, which is his duty.
[tweet]
Read on Twitter

[/tweet]
[tweet]
Read on Twitter

[/tweet]He also said.

https://sports.yahoo.com/sources-players-express-their-doubts-in-conference-call-with-kyrie-irving-025109611.html

"If it's worth the risk, then let's go and do it," Irving said on the call, sources said. "But if you're not with it, it's OK, too. We've got options for both ways. Let's just come to a middle ground as a family."


Kyrie isn't the only one that wants to sit out for social reasons.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/29303800/bucks-george-hill-reflects-racism-says-basketball-last-thought-my-mind

"If I didn't have that talent, I possibly would've been that George Floyd. I possibly would've been all my family members that got gunned down in the streets in Indianapolis. So, yes, this for me, it impacts me even more because I've seen the killing going on, and I've seen the police brutality," Hill said before getting choked up. "I've seen that my cousin is laying in the street for an hour and a half before another police officer gets there. I've seen that. So, I get emotional because it really hurts. I've got interracial kids, and I'm scared just for my whole life."


"I've been working every day since this all started with my body, my game and things like that, but as a whole, I can care less about basketball right now," Hill said. "That's like my last worry. That's just the game I'm blessed to play. When the ball goes up in the air, I'm ready to play, I love the competitive side of it, but that's not who I am. So, that's my last thought on my mind is basketball. I can care less what's going on. I think there's bigger issues and bigger things to tackle in life right now than a basketball game, but that's just my personal opinion."

"I don't know how it's going to affect me on the basketball court," Turner said. "I know that I, physically, have been working my ass off this entire time I've been off. I haven't taken one day off since this whole hiatus has came into effect. I really have been busting my ass down here. I'm in great physical shape, but mentally, I've still got a little more work to do.

"I'm paid millions of dollars to go out there and perform at a high level so part of it's like, 'Man, you've got to suck it up and go out there and do what you're paid to do,' but the other part of it is like, 'Listen man this basketball s---, I love it, it's part of what makes me me, but it's not all of what makes me me, either,' and I have a responsibility as a young black professional athlete to advocate for this change."

"That's a hard question when everyone just says, 'Shut up and dribble,'" he continued, referring to an admonishment that Fox News personality Laura Ingraham made when LeBron James criticized President Trump. "No, I'm not going to shut up and dribble. I don't care if you take my contract, I don't care if you say that I'm this or that, I'm human. I have a heart. I have a pulse. I have emotions. I'm a man. I have kids. I'm a father. I have a wife. I have friends. I have loved ones. It means [something] to me. I'm not going to just shut up and dribble."


https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/celtics/report-kyrie-irving-avery-bradley-vocal-about-nba-restart-concerns

Bradley, who left the Celtics just before Irving arrived in the summer of 2017, apparently agreed with Irving on a recent call with players.

"(Bradley) was vocal throughout, urging players to take a stand and utilize this moment to 'play chess, not checkers,' " Charania reported.


Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter


Read on Twitter



Players have already done commercials, wore shirts, given speeches, the guys that want to sit out clearly feel that what they were doing before isn't enough.

To add, this is the time for players to speak up. The NBA got ahead of itself when they said that resuming the season was approved.

https://sports.yahoo.com/lost-in-the-nb-as-latest-returntoplay-drama-kyrie-is-right-150922568.html

At 2 p.m. EST on June 4, the NBA and its Board of Governors approved a 22-team return-to-play scenario. Before that point, several NBA players were unsure of its details. The NBPA approved the plan just over 24 hours later. A week later, the first rumblings of anxiety over restarting the season after the COVID-19 pandemic shut it down 93 days ago are emerging.

The players union has some housekeeping to do, namely to answer the questions of why its board unanimously approved a return-to-play scenario when a reasonable faction of players felt unheard and unrepresented, and why the members of a supposedly well-oiled organization that has projected an image of openness and functionality didn’t feel like they could speak up. According to Haynes, Orlando Magic center Mo Bamba confided on the Zoom call that young players are reluctant to contradict the opinions and desires of superstars. Even the structures that were built to speak truth to it can be distorted by power.


When the NBPA approved the NBA’s plan, we took it for granted that the season was a go. But let’s take a look at the fine print. Here’s the statement the NBPA released on its website on June 5:

“The Board of Player Representatives of the National Basketball Players Association (NBPA) has approved further negotiations with the NBA on a 22-team return to play scenario to restart the 2019-20 NBA season. Various details remain to be negotiated and the acceptance of the scenario would still require that all parties reach agreement on all issues relevant to resuming play.”

The NBPA didn’t approve a season. It approved a scenario. In the meantime, the NBA and the players who would like to trudge ahead with the season took a PR victory lap before earning it. Friday’s Zoom meeting was a reminder that you should never trot out the yellow championship rope until the game’s been won.
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Re: Growing number of players are expressing concern about resuming season, young stars want league paid insurance 

Post#27 » by dougthonus » Sun Jun 14, 2020 1:22 pm

Little Nathan wrote:Completely fair to see it that way and I would agree, actually. I still think most of the questions he raised are at least worth discussing (and many players seem to agree) and that the anti-Kyrie people are more focused on the messenger than the actual message here, which is not fair IMO.


I'm not a black man or an NBA basketball player. I support the right for all of those individuals to make whatever choices feel right to them. If the NBA players as a whole decide not to play to support BLM then more power to them. We should all have such freedoms to choose to do what we want in life while baring the reasonable, non-punitive consequences of those choices (ie, players should lose all additional money, and probably have to give back some money paid or have it withheld from next year's salaries, just like if any of us refuse to work, and I add in non punitive, because the money withheld should be whatever is contractually reasonable and not some extra penalty meant to punish).

That said, I do struggle to understand the stance, completely ignoring the messenger (I never posted any Kyrie is crazy because of his flat earth stuff or other problems). You have a highly rated nationally televised event that will go on for months with constant opportunity to put forth your message.

I have some hope the league and players are able to come together on this and that the players and owners are both willing to do so. It wouldn't be hard to envision a situation where the league dedicates the rest of the season to social justice and makes special uniforms and shirts, gives them all away to black neighborhoods and makes it a prominent theme throughout the playoffs, uniting the league for this cause. Would be great if both sides could do something like that as it would both bring us basketball and forward this issue far more than any other outcome, as I think the players sitting out would help the cause considerably less.
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Re: Growing number of players are expressing concern about resuming season, young stars want league paid insurance 

Post#28 » by _txchilibowl_ » Sun Jun 14, 2020 2:20 pm

dougthonus wrote:
Little Nathan wrote:Completely fair to see it that way and I would agree, actually. I still think most of the questions he raised are at least worth discussing (and many players seem to agree) and that the anti-Kyrie people are more focused on the messenger than the actual message here, which is not fair IMO.


I'm not a black man or an NBA basketball player. I support the right for all of those individuals to make whatever choices feel right to them. If the NBA players as a whole decide not to play to support BLM then more power to them. We should all have such freedoms to choose to do what we want in life while baring the reasonable, non-punitive consequences of those choices (ie, players should lose all additional money, and probably have to give back some money paid or have it withheld from next year's salaries, just like if any of us refuse to work, and I add in non punitive, because the money withheld should be whatever is contractually reasonable and not some extra penalty meant to punish).

That said, I do struggle to understand the stance, completely ignoring the messenger (I never posted any Kyrie is crazy because of his flat earth stuff or other problems). You have a highly rated nationally televised event that will go on for months with constant opportunity to put forth your message.

I have some hope the league and players are able to come together on this and that the players and owners are both willing to do so. It wouldn't be hard to envision a situation where the league dedicates the rest of the season to social justice and makes special uniforms and shirts, gives them all away to black neighborhoods and makes it a prominent theme throughout the playoffs, uniting the league for this cause. Would be great if both sides could do something like that as it would both bring us basketball and forward this issue far more than any other outcome, as I think the players sitting out would help the cause considerably less.



I think the stance is that the BLM cause already has 24/7 coverage, as it should, and that playing games will only distract from the message. We all want the comfort of normal life to resume but comfort is the enemy of change. Me investing my time and energy back in to sports is a surefire way for me not to devote those energies to more important causes right now.

The NBA and it's players have numerous ways to vocalize and support the movement without needing the additional platform of games. And who's to say that the media attention of NBA players refusing to play wouldn't be an even bigger story than if they did decide to play? I believe it would be.

Resuming the season is about one thing....money. If the NBA didn't have so much to lose I think their position would look dramatically different.
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Re: Growing number of players are expressing concern about resuming season, young stars want league paid insurance 

Post#29 » by dougthonus » Sun Jun 14, 2020 8:31 pm

_txchilibowl_ wrote:I think the stance is that the BLM cause already has 24/7 coverage, as it should, and that playing games will only distract from the message. We all want the comfort of normal life to resume but comfort is the enemy of change. Me investing my time and energy back in to sports is a surefire way for me not to devote those energies to more important causes right now.

The NBA and it's players have numerous ways to vocalize and support the movement without needing the additional platform of games. And who's to say that the media attention of NBA players refusing to play wouldn't be an even bigger story than if they did decide to play? I believe it would be.

Resuming the season is about one thing....money. If the NBA didn't have so much to lose I think their position would look dramatically different.


Could be, we'll see how it goes. I'm pretty skeptical about the BLM movement being 24/7 news coverage in all summer.

I do think you're right about the players boycotting keeping it as a big story. I question whether that will ultimately create a greater schism or bring about change, but that is a different debate. I think the league coming together and making the rest of the season about social justice would maybe do more to bring people together, but sometimes greater disruption is required for change as you point out.

In this case, it gets down to what is the end game here?

Will NBA players not play basketball again until their is equality? Will we ever have basketball again? At what point is it okay to work rather than boycotting work over a cause? Is that going to be the 20/21 season? What actual things have to happen for you to feel that it is okay to go back to work. Players don't have to answer those questions all up front of course. They can intuitively know "now isn't the time" without knowing when it will be the time, but I do think understanding a clear goal is important.
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Re: Growing number of players are expressing concern about resuming season, young stars want league paid insurance 

Post#31 » by Red8911 » Mon Jun 15, 2020 1:25 am

If players don’t want to play at the end of July over this then they should get fined. I’m sorry this isn’t a good enough reason not to play, these guys get way too overpaid to just decide to take off whenever they feel like it. This is straight up disrespecting the NBA, the fans and the game of basketball. Irving especially is always looking for different ways to not play.
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Re: Growing number of players are expressing concern about resuming season, young stars want league paid insurance 

Post#32 » by MGB8 » Mon Jun 15, 2020 1:44 am

sonny wrote:
Read on Twitter


Rich guy doesn’t want to give fair share to his own community, who he cares sooo much about.
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Re: Growing number of players are expressing concern about resuming season, young stars want league paid insurance 

Post#33 » by PlayerUp » Mon Jun 15, 2020 2:02 am

dougthonus wrote:Will NBA players not play basketball again until their is equality? Will we ever have basketball again? At what point is it okay to work rather than boycotting work over a cause? Is that going to be the 20/21 season? What actual things have to happen for you to feel that it is okay to go back to work. Players don't have to answer those questions all up front of course. They can intuitively know "now isn't the time" without knowing when it will be the time, but I do think understanding a clear goal is important.


Well the NBA isn't going to just shut down the league forever because of this BLM movement. Eventually if players still refused to play, then you have to basically force them to retire from the NBA so they can move forward. Only a certain % of players are supporting shutting the season down here and that's fine. If they don't want to play then they can retire, forgo their salaries, shoe deals and let other players who would love to get the privilege these other NBA players have to enter the NBA take their spots.

I get people want to make a stance here but this is getting way too out of hand. The reality is NBA players in general are spoiled, and have a rare privilege to be where they are today.

I fully expect that in the end the players realize that they aren't going to be getting paid anymore and just return to basketball. It's all about the money in the end.
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Re: Growing number of players are expressing concern about resuming season, young stars want league paid insurance 

Post#34 » by PlayerUp » Mon Jun 15, 2020 2:05 am

Red8911 wrote:If players don’t want to play at the end of July over this then they should get fined. I’m sorry this isn’t a good enough reason not to play, these guys get way too overpaid to just decide to take off whenever they feel like it. This is straight up disrespecting the NBA, the fans and the game of basketball. Irving especially is always looking for different ways to not play.


Agreed but the players union league will fight this. Alternatively just void their agreements if they don't want to play. How spoiled do these players have to be to not want to play basketball but still try to collect paychecks.

If the NBA players want to make a statement, donate 100% of their salaries to BLM and play the game of basketball for BLM. That's actually making an impactful difference instead of insulting most of the fanbase.
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Re: Growing number of players are expressing concern about resuming season, young stars want league paid insurance 

Post#35 » by _txchilibowl_ » Mon Jun 15, 2020 2:25 am

Red8911 wrote:If players don’t want to play at the end of July over this then they should get fined. I’m sorry this isn’t a good enough reason not to play, these guys get way too overpaid to just decide to take off whenever they feel like it. This is straight up disrespecting the NBA, the fans and the game of basketball. Irving especially is always looking for different ways to not play.



They're actually underpaid but whatever....talent almost always is.

You seem to view these guys as a product you're entitled to when in reality they don't owe you anything. Basketball will come back someday...I promise you. And it will be as great as you remember it. But until then we might have to show some patience as these players navigate the greatest social uprising of their lifetimes. And this pesky pandemic too.

Show some compassion dude. They'll probably play.
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Re: Growing number of players are expressing concern about resuming season, young stars want league paid insurance 

Post#36 » by sonny » Mon Jun 15, 2020 2:45 am

MGB8 wrote:
sonny wrote:
Read on Twitter


Rich guy doesn’t want to give fair share to his own community, who he cares sooo much about.

That's not the point he was making and is partially the reason that some players want to sit out.

Players have done everything people in this thread are suggesting and will continue to do so, but they don't feel like it's enough.

Saying stuff like wanting to sit out to ensure that the attention that has been given to an important issue, brought to the forefront isn't interfered with is disrespectful to the game of basketball, is part of the reason some players want to sit out.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/29303800/bucks-george-hill-reflects-racism-says-basketball-last-thought-my-mind

With the topics of systematic racism, social injustice and racial inequity in the national spotlight, both Turner and Hill admitted it's tough to think about basketball.

"I've been working every day since this all started with my body, my game and things like that, but as a whole, I can care less about basketball right now," Hill said. "That's like my last worry. That's just the game I'm blessed to play. When the ball goes up in the air, I'm ready to play, I love the competitive side of it, but that's not who I am. So, that's my last thought on my mind is basketball. I can care less what's going on. I think there's bigger issues and bigger things to tackle in life right now than a basketball game, but that's just my personal opinion."
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Re: Growing number of players are expressing concern about resuming season, young stars want league paid insurance 

Post#37 » by mc140 » Mon Jun 15, 2020 4:23 am

Kyrie voted to return and less than a week later is leading the charge not to return. He has made around 125 million and he wasn't going to play anyways. They cancel this the NBA then reopens the CBA. Kyrie is not the one who will be crushed in the future by that.
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Re: Growing number of players are expressing concern about resuming season, young stars want league paid insurance 

Post#38 » by sonny » Mon Jun 15, 2020 4:58 am

mc140 wrote:Kyrie voted to return and less than a week later is leading the charge not to return. He has made around 125 million and he wasn't going to play anyways. They cancel this the NBA then reopens the CBA. Kyrie is not the one who will be crushed in the future by that.

He's VP of the NBAPA.

Is he not supposed to speak on behalf of the contingent of players with such concerns? Isn't that why his peers voted for him to have that position?

Other players have publicly come out and said they want to sit out for social issues.

Do people think Kyrie is tricking the players into feeling this way?
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Re: Growing number of players are expressing concern about resuming season, young stars want league paid insurance 

Post#39 » by MrSparkle » Mon Jun 15, 2020 8:12 am

I do think the time is now to seize a BLM revolution.

I’m just of the opinion that basketball will help the cause. The looting freaked people out. I actually think taking the protests to that level (of extreme, ie burning buildings) was kind of necessary.

If you do the research, from the inception of slave USA right up to the prison/police complex, the blatant racism in the system makes me want to puke and I’m not black. ALEC, CCA (now known as CoreCivic), look them up. It’s a whole corporate chain of symbiotic big money built up the last 40 years. Police forces have incentives to arrest blacks and latinos in the hood for petty crimes and BS plea bargain threats because the prisons get incentives and contracts based on prisoners. They have tech and corporate sponsors. They had these prisoners working and manufacturing for some of them (for free). It is dystopia.

I predominantly have worked alongside black men in my life (music and education). I need more than two hands to count the number of guys who told me their (horror) story of going to prison for something completely stupid and minor in their younger days. I have never once felt unsafe or been the victim of anything around these “criminals.” In fact they’re amongst the nicest people I know. Their repercussions are BS. They should collectively sue the government and prisons for millions of dollars to rebuild their life and get PTSD therapy in my opinion. Meanwhile you got 1st world problems like people getting depression therapy for their boring 6 figure jobs.

Look up the stats — 1 in 3 black men go to jail at some point. I do think the time is now to stuff reform. The worst thing is white politicians still lead THEIR reform.

But again, I think basketball is the platform. You can’t just keep looting and breaking Target’s windows all summer (which barre the mom and pop lootings, I do get a kick out big corporations crying about having to replace their windows and inventories of mass “slave-produced” garbage). Covid is going on. Trump, McConnell and their Law & Order racist party are having a laugh while the cities catch fall in greater debts.

I do think resuming NBA is a good idea. Hell of an idea would be for every player to kneel for the anthem. I believe this election year needs more buzz than ever to throw all the racists to the curb and get more blacks and latinos in office to lead reforms that take the money out of the SWAT powered police forces and the CoreCivic profiteering prison complex... In addition to ICE and the immigration (concentration) camps.

Americans need awareness. The players must keep the message active and not fall into the Bread & Circus coma that people usually get watching sports and eating pizza.

Frankly, I can't blame the audience for actually cooking some popcorn and watching this city protests/looting from a distance and not getting the message. It is good in moderation. The alternative really is for these players to do what they're great at and spread the message with a beautiful sport. Plus they make money, which honestly a lot of the lower-tier players need. Like I mentioned earlier, your window to earn a life-savings is pretty short if you're not Kyrie or Dwight. Some guys blow their knees out before their first pay-check, and they don't exactly have medical degrees to fall back after sports. You don't want to be 24yo with no long-term security and miss 1-2 years of your prime and perhaps the rest of your window, due to a protest.
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Re: Growing number of players are expressing concern about resuming season, young stars want league paid insurance 

Post#40 » by dougthonus » Mon Jun 15, 2020 11:34 am

PlayerUp wrote:Well the NBA isn't going to just shut down the league forever because of this BLM movement. Eventually if players still refused to play, then you have to basically force them to retire from the NBA so they can move forward. Only a certain % of players are supporting shutting the season down here and that's fine. If they don't want to play then they can retire, forgo their salaries, shoe deals and let other players who would love to get the privilege these other NBA players have to enter the NBA take their spots.


It's an interesting position for the NBA. Yes, they do need to start the league, and maybe they could cancel the rest of the 19/20 season if things get bad enough, but I agree they'd go to 20/21 with replacement players (or whomever is still willing to play) if they had to. Also, can't see the players holding out two years, too many need the money. Though, the top paid players could afford to hold out if they wanted to, and those are the ones who make all the money for the league and don't need the money. Who knows if any will or not.

I get people want to make a stance here but this is getting way too out of hand. The reality is NBA players in general are spoiled, and have a rare privilege to be where they are today.


I think there's no reason to say NBA players are spoiled here. They're potentially willing to give up tons of money for a cause they believe in. That isn't spoiled. The fact that they can do something they love to make money and can make a lot of money is a side bar being held against them for doing something that at its heart is a sacrifice for those less fortunate.

I fully expect that in the end the players realize that they aren't going to be getting paid anymore and just return to basketball. It's all about the money in the end.


I expect there is a good chance, as I noted, that the league and players come up with some way to work this out and play games.

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