RealGM

kodo wrote:winning basketball games does not have strong correlation with revenue performance. Hell, last season the Bulls were 2nd in attendance, if we needed any more proof than that.

it does, actually (just not as much as market size). particularly in the long-term. see the golden state warriors being valued at 4.3 bil vs the bulls at 3.2 bil. and that's DESPITE the bulls brand. see the celtics being valued about the same as the bulls despite being in a significantly smaller market. because their brand is winning. see the spurs being middle-of-the-pack in valuation despite being in one of the smallest markets. team value per TV viewer in metro area (forbes/nielson, in dollars) :

2354 thunder
2238 grizz
2195 pels
1963 spurs
1888 bucks
1818 warriors
1662 blazers
1628 jazz
1447 pacers
1347 kings
1346 celtics
1332 hornets
1188 heat
1105 cavs
1062 rockets
1044 nuggets
983 bulls
958 magic
936 mavs
864 suns
855 lakers
835 pistons
810 wolves
744 wizards
725 sixers
674 knicks
670 hawks
505 clippers
366 nets

there's definitely some correlation with winning there. note also the revenue sharing/national audience that makes small market teams more valuable relative to their market size

Coaches also weighing in but with risk issues.

patagonia wrote:I have a hard time believing the players can have a greater impact by not playing than by using the games to spread their message. They could have PSAs, halftime messages, get out the vote campaigns, players speaking before games, etc - all while millions of people are watching. I'm not convinced the audience will be bigger or more impacted otherwise.

The argument that this coalition is making is that it shouldn't all fall on the players, like it usually does. The league saying we'll make shirts, run commercials and give you 5 minutes of time during the postgame to speak on social justice isn't enough anymore.

Bron didn't need to be on TV to launch his voting rights group.

The members of the NBA are billionaires that pay lobbyists and donate money to politicians to make sure their interests are promoted. They pay guys a bunch of money to figure out how to build brand new state of the art stadiums with taxpayers picking up the majority of the bill and pay no property taxes on it. In a league where approximately 75% of the players are black the league, its members wouldn't be able to use these resources to push for reform?

The teams and the league definitely have the power to improve their diversity in management positions. A month or two ago we had people trying to reconcile how the same process that somehow struggles to find suitable black candidates are able to find suitable white candidates that have no front office experience.

sonny wrote:The argument that this coalition is making is that it shouldn't all fall on the players, like it usually does. The league saying we'll make shirts, run commercials and give you 5 minutes of time during the postgame to speak on social justice isn't enough anymore.

Bron didn't need to be on TV to launch his voting rights group.

The members of the NBA are billionaires that pay lobbyists and donate money to politicians to make sure their interests are promoted. They pay guys a bunch of money to figure out how to build brand new state of the art stadiums with taxpayers picking up the majority of the bill and pay no property taxes on it. In a league where approximately 75% of the players are black the league, its members wouldn't be able to use these resources to push for reform?

They already collectively bargained how to split revenues, if they want a segment of that split to go to social reform, they can definitely bargain for it. It's a bit unorthodox to make demands about how someone else spends their money after the bargaining though.

The teams and the league definitely have the power to improve their diversity in management positions. A month or two ago we had people trying to reconcile how the same process that somehow struggles to find suitable black candidates are able to find suitable white candidates that have no front office experience.

Agreed.

Also, interesting note that most key front office positions have been minority hires since then too. Not sure if it is coincidental or just went that way. Troy Weaver, Marc Eversley, and Leon Rose were all hired as front office people in 2020 (though Rose prior to the Floyd incident that kicked off racial tensions). Not sure if that is 100% of the GM hires (though Eversley isn't the final decision maker while I think Weaver and Rose are). I'm not sure if any other FOs changed people, but AK might be the only EVP/GM that isn't a minority that was hired for these positions so far, I can't think of any other hires, but I admit I haven't looked that closely.

NBA In FULL COLLAPSE! TV Ratings TANK After Season Opener Shenanigans!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=365&v=8VCX1lsAa-o&feature=emb_logo

They should worry about not upsetting the goose that lays the golden eggs -- it ain't the CCP.

Great news. Sport should never ever have hint of being political. We watch it in our spare time for fun and entertainment. To move away on hour or two from our daylife. If you start forcing your propaganda even there will not watch it. I can live without sport.

TheFinishSniper wrote:Great news. Sport should never ever have hint of being political. We watch it in our spare time for fun and entertainment. To move away on hour or two from our daylife. If you start forcing your propaganda even there will not watch it. I can live without sport.

Sports have been political for centuries. During the 70-80's the Olympics were in a part a Cold-War propaganda showdown between Russia and the United States. China politicizes the medal count by saying they win it if they have the most gold medals instead of all cumulative medals won.

I don't know what team or teams you root for but I wouldn't be surprised if they got some kind of tax break, local or state funds for their stadium. So the next time they seek that tell them get politics out of your sport.

I could get your point if they were pushing flat earthers or anti-vaccination. Pushing racial and social justice, ending police brutality, and having more police accountability isn't. When it comes to issues that affect the masses "keep politics out of sports". When it comes to the big money though politics in sports seems to be fine.

TheFinishSniper wrote:Great news. Sport should never ever have hint of being political. We watch it in our spare time for fun and entertainment. To move away on hour or two from our daylife. If you start forcing your propaganda even there will not watch it. I can live without sport.

Strong "shut up and dribble" vibes right there.

Little Nathan wrote:

TheFinishSniper wrote:Great news. Sport should never ever have hint of being political. We watch it in our spare time for fun and entertainment. To move away on hour or two from our daylife. If you start forcing your propaganda even there will not watch it. I can live without sport.

Strong "shut up and dribble" vibes right there.

Or maybe the poster is tired of politics making there way into sports, which should be a haven/sanctuary from real world issues.

Jeffster81 wrote:

Little Nathan wrote:

TheFinishSniper wrote:Great news. Sport should never ever have hint of being political. We watch it in our spare time for fun and entertainment. To move away on hour or two from our daylife. If you start forcing your propaganda even there will not watch it. I can live without sport.

Strong "shut up and dribble" vibes right there.

Or maybe the poster is tired of politics making there way into sports, which should be a haven/sanctuary from real world issues.

So what you're saying is...shut up and dribble?

the ultimates wrote:

TheFinishSniper wrote:Great news. Sport should never ever have hint of being political. We watch it in our spare time for fun and entertainment. To move away on hour or two from our daylife. If you start forcing your propaganda even there will not watch it. I can live without sport.

Sports have been political for centuries. During the 70-80's the Olympics were in a part a Cold-War propaganda showdown between Russia and the United States. China politicizes the medal count by saying they win it if they have the most gold medals instead of all cumulative medals won.

I don't know what team or teams you root for but I wouldn't be surprised if they got some kind of tax break, local or state funds for their stadium. So the next time they seek that tell them get politics out of your sport.

I could get your point if they were pushing flat earthers or anti-vaccination. Pushing racial and social justice, ending police brutality, and having more police accountability isn't. When it comes to issues that affect the masses "keep politics out of sports". When it comes to the big money though politics in sports seems to be fine.

The bolded is proving the FinishSniper is right, because you think you're political opinion is okay to be pushed, but another opinion is not.

Little Nathan wrote:

Jeffster81 wrote:

Little Nathan wrote:Strong "shut up and dribble" vibes right there.

Or maybe the poster is tired of politics making there way into sports, which should be a haven/sanctuary from real world issues.

So what you're saying is...shut up and dribble?

Or perhaps he is saying if the players use their right to push their political agenda (no matter how righteous that agenda is) on the field, then it should not be a surprise not all people can bother to watch the political theatre even though they very likely are (or can be) aligned with said agenda.

I haven't bothered to watch a single of these "bubble" matches (no matter which sports) and I don't think I will. I watch sports to relax, to forget all the problems of the world at least for a small moment. If the sports can't provide that relaxation, then why bother?

samwana wrote:

the ultimates wrote:

TheFinishSniper wrote:Great news. Sport should never ever have hint of being political. We watch it in our spare time for fun and entertainment. To move away on hour or two from our daylife. If you start forcing your propaganda even there will not watch it. I can live without sport.

Sports have been political for centuries. During the 70-80's the Olympics were in a part a Cold-War propaganda showdown between Russia and the United States. China politicizes the medal count by saying they win it if they have the most gold medals instead of all cumulative medals won.

I don't know what team or teams you root for but I wouldn't be surprised if they got some kind of tax break, local or state funds for their stadium. So the next time they seek that tell them get politics out of your sport.

I could get your point if they were pushing flat earthers or anti-vaccination. Pushing racial and social justice, ending police brutality, and having more police accountability isn't. When it comes to issues that affect the masses "keep politics out of sports". When it comes to the big money though politics in sports seems to be fine.

The bolded is proving the FinishSniper is right, because you think you're political opinion is okay to be pushed, but another opinion is not.

Since when is bringing to light continued inequality and racism a political opinion? All political opinions are not the same so that both sides argument can kick rocks. Why do you feel athletes talking about social justice and inequality is so controversial?

I hate to break the bad news to you guys rooting for the NBA to fail because you hate social reform, but that video is awful.

It compares opening night numbers to subsequent viewership, sees a decline, and assumes it’s because of the social justice messages. Unfortunately for many the truth exists.

The NBA’s opening numbers - despite it being widely known players would be wearing social justice mottos - were astronomically high. Over 200% the norm according to TNT. Then when the numbers dipped down to about 1.4 million per game, they were still massively higher higher than the NBA’s December 2019 regular season game numbers which were about 885k per game for nationally televised games. For context, the December of 2018 numbers were 1.2 million per nationally televised games.

So no, BLM has not hindered the NBA’s ratings except for a few uptight kooks who get enraged when minorities use public forums to demand equal treatment. In fact, as of now the NBA’s ratings have improved dramatically over numbers that were in decline before the recent social upheaval.

My conclusion: obviously supporting BLM very publicly is a HUGE boost to professional sports leagues. Okay, I don’t actually believe that because it’s a ridiculous oversimplification untethered from reality. But if you are going to stupidly correlate TV ratings with BLM, that would be the only conclusion to be reached.

Swuul wrote:

Little Nathan wrote:

Jeffster81 wrote:
Or maybe the poster is tired of politics making there way into sports, which should be a haven/sanctuary from real world issues.

So what you're saying is...shut up and dribble?

Or perhaps he is saying if the players use their right to push their political agenda (no matter how righteous that agenda is) on the field, then it should not be a surprise not all people can bother to watch the political theatre even though they very likely are (or can be) aligned with said agenda.

I haven't bothered to watch a single of these "bubble" matches (no matter which sports) and I don't think I will. I watch sports to relax, to forget all the problems of the world at least for a small moment. If the sports can't provide that relaxation, then why bother?

If you don't have a problem with the message the players are trying to send, you have no reason not to watch the games because the actual basketball games are still just basketball games. Nothing changed about that. The people who claim to not mind the message but are still somehow mad because of it are just lying to themselves.

Little Nathan wrote:

Swuul wrote:

Little Nathan wrote:So what you're saying is...shut up and dribble?

Or perhaps he is saying if the players use their right to push their political agenda (no matter how righteous that agenda is) on the field, then it should not be a surprise not all people can bother to watch the political theatre even though they very likely are (or can be) aligned with said agenda.

I haven't bothered to watch a single of these "bubble" matches (no matter which sports) and I don't think I will. I watch sports to relax, to forget all the problems of the world at least for a small moment. If the sports can't provide that relaxation, then why bother?

If you don't have a problem with the message the players are trying to send, you have no reason not to watch the games because the actual basketball games are still just basketball games. Nothing changed about that. The people who claim to not mind the message but are still somehow mad because of it are just lying to themselves.

More like lying to everyone else.

Little Nathan wrote:

Swuul wrote:

Little Nathan wrote:So what you're saying is...shut up and dribble?

Or perhaps he is saying if the players use their right to push their political agenda (no matter how righteous that agenda is) on the field, then it should not be a surprise not all people can bother to watch the political theatre even though they very likely are (or can be) aligned with said agenda.

I haven't bothered to watch a single of these "bubble" matches (no matter which sports) and I don't think I will. I watch sports to relax, to forget all the problems of the world at least for a small moment. If the sports can't provide that relaxation, then why bother?

If you don't have a problem with the message the players are trying to send, you have no reason not to watch the games because the actual basketball games are still just basketball games. Nothing changed about that. The people who claim to not mind the message but are still somehow mad because of it are just lying to themselves.

I haven't been following the entire conversation, but I thought Swuul spelled it out pretty clearly. Some of us don't like to be reminded of the terrible things in the world during our entertainment time. I felt that way long before current trends, such as being a bit turned off by various tributes to very important and worthwhile concerns that have been going on for decades in sports. It just keeps getting a little further and further away from entertainment.

League Circles wrote:Some of us don't like to be reminded of the terrible things in the world during our entertainment time.

So what's the solution here? The players shouldn't be allowed to take a stance against social injustice so you can enjoy your politics-free entertainment? Because that sounds like...(I'm not going to say it again).

DuckIII wrote:More like lying to everyone else.

You're right, that's better.