Image ImageImage Image

Bulls considering Kenny Atkinson for HC

Moderators: HomoSapien, dougthonus, kulaz3000, fleet, RedBulls23, Ice Man, Tommy Udo 6 , AshyLarrysDiaper, GimmeDat, DASMACKDOWN, Payt10

User avatar
MrFortune3
Head Coach
Posts: 6,145
And1: 1,832
Joined: Jul 03, 2010
         

Re: Bulls considering Kenny Atkinson for HC 

Post#101 » by MrFortune3 » Thu Jun 18, 2020 1:05 pm

dougthonus wrote:
Showtime23 wrote:Because KA is at worst a top 10 coach and Bulls are one of the worst teams? Why should a top 10 candidate forced to take one of the lowest paid/insecure jobs when he could continue his career on a playoff bound team and become the next Spolestra?
Literally, every Bulls fan would have to beg on their knees if I were KA.


At worst a top 10 coach? That's literally the worst case scenario? A guy whom, in four seasons, has finished over .500 one time with only 42 wins and never won a playoff series in his life has absolutely no possibility of being the 11th or 12th best coach in the NBA?

Popovich
Kerr
Nurse
Spoelstra
Rivers
Carlisle
Budenholzer
Stevens
Vogel
Brown
Snyder
McMillon
D'Antoni

Like he's absolutely better than at a minimum of four of those guys? No possible argument otherwise? That's the floor?


Yeah....I'm not a fan of D'Antoni at all. So I don't have a problem with KA being considered better than him :lol:
User avatar
dougthonus
Senior Mod - Bulls
Senior Mod - Bulls
Posts: 46,615
And1: 6,819
Joined: Dec 22, 2004
Contact:

Re: Bulls considering Kenny Atkinson for HC 

Post#102 » by dougthonus » Thu Jun 18, 2020 1:09 pm

MrFortune3 wrote:Yeah....I'm not a fan of D'Antoni at all. So I don't have a problem with KA being considered better than him :lol:


There is something to the idea that the longer the resume a guy has, the less people like him, because there are more visible flaws. He wasn't successful with the Knicks or Lakers obviously. His legacy would have been really interesting had it not been for some key injuries. Likely would have won the title with the Rockets had Chris Paul not gotten hurt, and had a similar situation in Phoenix.

I think D'Antoni should go down historically as a pretty great coach. He's invented offensive systems that were massively successful that literally no one else in the league was doing on two separate occasions to fit vastly different types of personnel. I think that's actually a pretty unique and amazing achievement relative to most coaches.
User avatar
MrFortune3
Head Coach
Posts: 6,145
And1: 1,832
Joined: Jul 03, 2010
         

Re: Bulls considering Kenny Atkinson for HC 

Post#103 » by MrFortune3 » Thu Jun 18, 2020 1:22 pm

dougthonus wrote:
MrFortune3 wrote:I swear we are all defending Atkinson too much at this point :lol:

I think Doug is just too dug in on his opinion of him. Atkinson is a solid coach at worst, nobody is saying he's elite, just that he helped the Nets.


Here's 10 quoted pieces where I acknowledge that I might be wrong or leave room for the opinion that he is a good coach. There are zero quotes in this thread where you, Mark, or Homo acknowledge that anything I've written as a possibility has merit.

dougthonus wrote:Atkinson may be amazing, I don't know much about him.


dougthonus wrote:That said, I refer back to the first statement, I don't really know much about him (or any coaching candidate) and so many of those things may have been circumstances that were not reasonable or fair to gauge, but on the surface, Atkinson seems heavily overrated to me.


dougthonus wrote:That is certainly the absolutely most positive, optimistic take on the situation, which is the one the majority of people seem to be taking. Maybe it's a realistic take, but as I noted, if you look at the overall results, there's a lot of room for a very reasonable negative take that says he's really pretty awful.


dougthonus wrote:That very well may be the correct take. As I've said, I don't know much about Atkinson really (or any of these guys)


dougthonus wrote:Wouldn't shock me if he ends up being a good coach, but I'm surprised at how convinced people are that he's a good coach based on what has happened.


dougthonus wrote:As I noted, you're attributing everything positive that happened to Atkinson and nothing negative that happened to him. That could be the correct thing to do, but it's very infrequent in life that it is and there is quite a bit of very direct evidence against that in this specific case.


dougthonus wrote:I think either side is plausible and I know I don't have enough information.


dougthonus wrote:When I add those things up, I think he's a reasonable candidate


dougthonus wrote:I can see the argument of why he might be good.


dougthonus wrote:Just to be clear, I'm mostly neutral on Atkinson.


My responses have been directed towards your initial premise when we began debating, Because I cannot fathom how you even began at that premise. The reason none of us have given merit to it is because anyone looking at the Nets initial situation knows that it has no merit to it.

The Nets situation was so bad that they couldn't even sign Allen Crabbe and Tyler Johnson to 75 mil and 50 mil deals respectively in the 2015 off-season. No talent, did not own their own draft picks, no ability to improve the team through FA even being flush with cash.
The job that Atkinson did was amazing. Horrible situation, horrible culture, no real future. Should have been an absolute dead end job.
No one is the entire league thought the Nets would be anything for probably a decade since they had given away their picks to Boston.

I am going to say this again, you cannot win in the NBA without talent. As the talent and development of said talent got better, the team improved and made the playoffs.
User avatar
MrFortune3
Head Coach
Posts: 6,145
And1: 1,832
Joined: Jul 03, 2010
         

Re: Bulls considering Kenny Atkinson for HC 

Post#104 » by MrFortune3 » Thu Jun 18, 2020 1:28 pm

dougthonus wrote:
MrFortune3 wrote:Yeah....I'm not a fan of D'Antoni at all. So I don't have a problem with KA being considered better than him :lol:


There is something to the idea that the longer the resume a guy has, the less people like him, because there are more visible flaws. He wasn't successful with the Knicks or Lakers obviously. His legacy would have been really interesting had it not been for some key injuries. Likely would have won the title with the Rockets had Chris Paul not gotten hurt, and had a similar situation in Phoenix.

I think D'Antoni should go down historically as a pretty great coach. He's invented offensive systems that were massively successful that literally no one else in the league was doing on two separate occasions to fit vastly different types of personnel. I think that's actually a pretty unique and amazing achievement relative to most coaches.


D'Antoni is a good coach no doubt. But he's along the lines of Nelson and etc offensive coaches who never seem to grasp the importance of defense to win a title. Granted in the recent years in Houston he's made it more of a priority to hire guys who specialize in it.

Those Suns teams he had were never winning a title, too many defensive flaws to hold up in a 7 games finals series and it's the same with the Rockets teams even the one where CP3 got hurt.
User avatar
dougthonus
Senior Mod - Bulls
Senior Mod - Bulls
Posts: 46,615
And1: 6,819
Joined: Dec 22, 2004
Contact:

Re: Bulls considering Kenny Atkinson for HC 

Post#105 » by dougthonus » Thu Jun 18, 2020 2:03 pm

MrFortune3 wrote:My responses have been directed towards your initial premise when we began debating, Because I cannot fathom how you even began at that premise. The reason none of us have given merit to it is because anyone looking at the Nets initial situation knows that it has no merit to it.


Great, so we agree then, that you are the one who is dug in on your opinion.
User avatar
dougthonus
Senior Mod - Bulls
Senior Mod - Bulls
Posts: 46,615
And1: 6,819
Joined: Dec 22, 2004
Contact:

Re: Bulls considering Kenny Atkinson for HC 

Post#106 » by dougthonus » Thu Jun 18, 2020 2:08 pm

MrFortune3 wrote:Those Suns teams he had were never winning a title, too many defensive flaws to hold up in a 7 games finals series and it's the same with the Rockets teams even the one where CP3 got hurt.


The Rockets were a game away from the finals, where they would have been favored, while competing against one of the all time great dynasties and lost due to an injury to one of their 2 best players.

If you don't think they were a title caliber team, then I'm not sure what to tell you, it seems pretty obvious to me that they were a few unlucky events away from winning a title. Chris Paul stays healthy, they easily could have won. If there wasn't one of the two greatest teams ever assembled in front of them then they easily could have won.

They obviously didn't win, but pretty weird to me that you don't think they could have. Do you also think there is no circumstance where the late 90s Jazz could have won a title? Like if they didn't have to go through the other greatest team ever assembled that they might have been able to pull it off? Do you think Jerry Sloan is overrated as well and would you also rank him as a worse coach than Atkinson?
User avatar
dougthonus
Senior Mod - Bulls
Senior Mod - Bulls
Posts: 46,615
And1: 6,819
Joined: Dec 22, 2004
Contact:

Re: Bulls considering Kenny Atkinson for HC 

Post#107 » by dougthonus » Thu Jun 18, 2020 2:33 pm

Let me rephrase the argument about Atkinson this way using two comparisons:

Comparable 1:
Doc Rivers - Rivers took an Orlando team and immediately improved it. They didn't have a ton of talent really, but he had them playing .500 ball. It isn't exactly the same because he went from 33 to 42 wins in year 1, whereas Atkinson took 3 years, but started off in a worse spot, but somewhat similar. Rivers failed to move the needle on the Magic over the years though and was eventually fired. He was picked up later by Boston, won a title, and is now viewed as a great coach.

Comparable 2:
Scott Skiles - Skiles took over a really bad Bulls team and immediately got them to 47 wins. When you look at the core of that team, it seems even more impressive in retrospective. More or less every key piece of that team outside of Tyson Chandler had their best years under Skiles (Curry, Hinrich, Gordon, Nocioni, etc..). However, Skiles couldn't sustain any success, burnt out quickly, and had a similar outcome in his next stop. No one looks at Skiles as a good coaching candidate so far.

My only point on Atkinson, is the type of success he has had so far is actually fairly common. There are many coaches that start with something really bad and get to average, especially if they have three years. The law of averages tends to force all teams towards the mean. A bad team tends to get better. Whether Atkinson was the key component of that improvement or not or whether he could replicate that elsewhere or whether he could scale to go from average to good is an entirely different thing.

Maybe Atkinson is the next Doc Rivers which is amazing and maybe he is the next Scott Skiles, a guy who's fine for a few years but basically someone you'd view as replacement level as a coach. I'm only stating both these possibilities exist. Skiles achievement in 04/05 actually stands out to me as much bigger than what Atkinson did in comparison.

I think Atkinson is a totally viable candidate just like Skiles/Rivers were totally viable candidates after their Bulls/Magic stints. Bring him in and interview him. I wouldn't be scared or bummed if we hired him. I just don't see it as a can't miss hire either.
drosestruts
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,712
And1: 1,640
Joined: Apr 05, 2012
 

Re: Bulls considering Kenny Atkinson for HC 

Post#108 » by drosestruts » Thu Jun 18, 2020 3:54 pm

I still don't see how Kenny Atkinson isn't just Vinny Del Negro.
User avatar
dougthonus
Senior Mod - Bulls
Senior Mod - Bulls
Posts: 46,615
And1: 6,819
Joined: Dec 22, 2004
Contact:

Re: Bulls considering Kenny Atkinson for HC 

Post#109 » by dougthonus » Thu Jun 18, 2020 4:59 pm

drosestruts wrote:I still don't see how Kenny Atkinson isn't just Vinny Del Negro.


Unrelated, but just amusing, for whatever reason, everytime I see your user name, I think it's D-Rose's nuts and have to reread it before it kicks back in that it's D-Rose struts.
User avatar
Michael Jackson
RealGM
Posts: 15,002
And1: 1,752
Joined: Jun 15, 2001

Re: Bulls considering Kenny Atkinson for HC 

Post#110 » by Michael Jackson » Thu Jun 18, 2020 5:02 pm

drosestruts wrote:I still don't see how Kenny Atkinson isn't just Vinny Del Negro.



Del Negro had no prior experience for one. He also wasn’t as bad as he was made out to be either I think VDN would have been welcomed back by all fans if it was a choice between him and Jimbo.
othawhitemeat
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,852
And1: 295
Joined: May 14, 2004

Re: Bulls considering Kenny Atkinson for HC 

Post#111 » by othawhitemeat » Thu Jun 18, 2020 6:26 pm

dougthonus wrote:Let me rephrase the argument about Atkinson this way using two comparisons:

Comparable 1:
Doc Rivers - Rivers took an Orlando team and immediately improved it. They didn't have a ton of talent really, but he had them playing .500 ball. It isn't exactly the same because he went from 33 to 42 wins in year 1, whereas Atkinson took 3 years, but started off in a worse spot, but somewhat similar. Rivers failed to move the needle on the Magic over the years though and was eventually fired. He was picked up later by Boston, won a title, and is now viewed as a great coach.

Comparable 2:
Scott Skiles - Skiles took over a really bad Bulls team and immediately got them to 47 wins. When you look at the core of that team, it seems even more impressive in retrospective. More or less every key piece of that team outside of Tyson Chandler had their best years under Skiles (Curry, Hinrich, Gordon, Nocioni, etc..). However, Skiles couldn't sustain any success, burnt out quickly, and had a similar outcome in his next stop. No one looks at Skiles as a good coaching candidate so far.

My only point on Atkinson, is the type of success he has had so far is actually fairly common. There are many coaches that start with something really bad and get to average, especially if they have three years. The law of averages tends to force all teams towards the mean. A bad team tends to get better. Whether Atkinson was the key component of that improvement or not or whether he could replicate that elsewhere or whether he could scale to go from average to good is an entirely different thing.

Maybe Atkinson is the next Doc Rivers which is amazing and maybe he is the next Scott Skiles, a guy who's fine for a few years but basically someone you'd view as replacement level as a coach. I'm only stating both these possibilities exist. Skiles achievement in 04/05 actually stands out to me as much bigger than what Atkinson did in comparison.

I think Atkinson is a totally viable candidate just like Skiles/Rivers were totally viable candidates after their Bulls/Magic stints. Bring him in and interview him. I wouldn't be scared or bummed if we hired him. I just don't see it as a can't miss hire either.


Doug, bro, most of us like you here and usually, you make amazing points. I think most peeps know what you are saying. I just think most disagree in this instance. I don't think most peeps are saying that they are very confident Atkinson is a HOF coach or anything close to that. I think most people agree that bad records sometimes reflect badly on a coach. However, sometimes there are exceptions. For example, Bill Belichick was 36-44 when he was coach at the Cleveland Browns. Steve Kerr was abysmal this year with Golden State and a lot of that was based on lack of talent. Luke Walton was amazing as interim for Warriors a few years ago when Kerr was sidelined. Phil Jackson had absolutely loaded teams that other coaches could not win a chip with. Rick Carlisle won a chip with Dallas when Avery Johnson could not. Thibs record in Minnesota without Jimmy was not very good. I am saying this not to say Atkinson is a HOF coach, but that using a record of the first 2 years of a very bad talent laden team is hard to tell a coaching chops resume. So I think most people are saying, look at what he did in year 3 was taking a team in most opinion's that is not playoff caliber even in a weak East and getting the 6 seed. Look at how some of these players progressed. Could it have been a fluke year - yes it could have been, but how much these players progressed, how hard they played, etc... showed promise.

Looking at this year, can you blame how bad the Nets were on coaching? I don't know. They had several injuries and honestly signed a supreme and injured diva in Kyrie. Almost everywhere Kyrie has gone he has made a team worse sans when he was 2nd alpha to Lebron. Celtics could not wait to get rid of him. They were better without him than with him. Cleveland before Lebron with Kyrie was terrible. Kyrie is extremely talented, but is a team destroyer as 1st alpha. Gosh, they are going to be hard to coach those egos when Durant comes back. Durant though is so good, he will make them better.

I think in this instance, I can see the promise in Atkinson. I don't think he is my first choice or most peeps first choice, but he has shown promise. Is he a good coach - I don't know. However, can we all agree to just disagree?
User avatar
dougthonus
Senior Mod - Bulls
Senior Mod - Bulls
Posts: 46,615
And1: 6,819
Joined: Dec 22, 2004
Contact:

Re: Bulls considering Kenny Atkinson for HC 

Post#112 » by dougthonus » Thu Jun 18, 2020 7:13 pm

othawhitemeat wrote:Doug, bro, most of us like you here and usually, you make amazing points. I think most peeps know what you are saying. I just think most disagree in this instance. I don't think most peeps are saying that they are very confident Atkinson is a HOF coach or anything close to that. I think most people agree that bad records sometimes reflect badly on a coach. However, sometimes there are exceptions. For example, Bill Belichick was 36-44 when he was coach at the Cleveland Browns. Steve Kerr was abysmal this year with Golden State and a lot of that was based on lack of talent. Luke Walton was amazing as interim for Warriors a few years ago when Kerr was sidelined. Phil Jackson had absolutely loaded teams that other coaches could not win a chip with. Rick Carlisle won a chip with Dallas when Avery Johnson could not. Thibs record in Minnesota without Jimmy was not very good. I am saying this not to say Atkinson is a HOF coach, but that using a record of the first 2 years of a very bad talent laden team is hard to tell a coaching chops resume. So I think most people are saying, look at what he did in year 3 was taking a team in most opinion's that is not playoff caliber even in a weak East and getting the 6 seed. Look at how some of these players progressed. Could it have been a fluke year - yes it could have been, but how much these players progressed, how hard they played, etc... showed promise.

Looking at this year, can you blame how bad the Nets were on coaching? I don't know. They had several injuries and honestly signed a supreme and injured diva in Kyrie. Almost everywhere Kyrie has gone he has made a team worse sans when he was 2nd alpha to Lebron. Celtics could not wait to get rid of him. They were better without him than with him. Cleveland before Lebron with Kyrie was terrible. Kyrie is extremely talented, but is a team destroyer as 1st alpha. Gosh, they are going to be hard to coach those egos when Durant comes back. Durant though is so good, he will make them better.

I think in this instance, I can see the promise in Atkinson. I don't think he is my first choice or most peeps first choice, but he has shown promise. Is he a good coach - I don't know. However, can we all agree to just disagree?


I agree with everything you've said. I've not said that Atkinson is bad. I've said that people are ignoring the possibility he is bad. If we had tons of people bashing Atkinson and no one who'd like him, I'd also state the opposite that there are mitigating circumstances and there is plenty of possibility he is good.

I just don't know how anyone would look at Atkinson and have an incredibly strong opinion one way or the other based on what has transpired.
GetBuLLish
General Manager
Posts: 8,698
And1: 2,291
Joined: Jan 14, 2009

Re: Bulls considering Kenny Atkinson for HC 

Post#113 » by GetBuLLish » Thu Jun 18, 2020 8:13 pm

dougthonus wrote:I agree with everything you've said. I've not said that Atkinson is bad. I've said that people are ignoring the possibility he is bad. If we had tons of people bashing Atkinson and no one who'd like him, I'd also state the opposite that there are mitigating circumstances and there is plenty of possibility he is good.

I just don't know how anyone would look at Atkinson and have an incredibly strong opinion one way or the other based on what has transpired.


The whole argument in this thread is based on a misinterpretation of your position.
The Bulls have one the three worst owners and one of the five worst front offices in the league. So strap on your seat belts because this "rebuild" is going to be one very long ride.
sco
RealGM
Posts: 14,803
And1: 3,769
Joined: Sep 22, 2003
Location: Virtually Everywhere!

Re: Bulls considering Kenny Atkinson for HC 

Post#114 » by sco » Thu Jun 18, 2020 8:34 pm

GetBuLLish wrote:
dougthonus wrote:I agree with everything you've said. I've not said that Atkinson is bad. I've said that people are ignoring the possibility he is bad. If we had tons of people bashing Atkinson and no one who'd like him, I'd also state the opposite that there are mitigating circumstances and there is plenty of possibility he is good.

I just don't know how anyone would look at Atkinson and have an incredibly strong opinion one way or the other based on what has transpired.


The whole argument in this thread is based on a misinterpretation of your position.

I think the passion on the pro-KA front comes from a few places:

1) There are really slim pickings of available/experienced coaches right now
2) The sense by many that Kingpin was the biggest reason we sucked so hard last season
3) The strong need by many to find a savior in a coach because it doesn't appear to them that it will come from the roster

Kudos to Doug for keeping fantasy out of our expectations about KA.

That said, I am more pro-KA, simply because I am very anti-first-time HC's due to the multi-year learning curve that is more the rule than the exception.
:clap:
User avatar
dougthonus
Senior Mod - Bulls
Senior Mod - Bulls
Posts: 46,615
And1: 6,819
Joined: Dec 22, 2004
Contact:

Re: Bulls considering Kenny Atkinson for HC 

Post#115 » by dougthonus » Thu Jun 18, 2020 9:01 pm

sco wrote:That said, I am more pro-KA, simply because I am very anti-first-time HC's due to the multi-year learning curve that is more the rule than the exception.


I like Griffin a lot, but I think this is a good point. You can definitely argue that if you like KA, that his second experience has the opportunity to be better than his first due to all the learning he has done.

Any leadership position that requires moving up to a new level has a pretty jarring set of new responsibilities that is difficult to do well the first time around for most people. Thibodeau's success may be one example where we are ignoring some of this risk because he went from assistant to head coach and was immediately extremely successful.
User avatar
MrFortune3
Head Coach
Posts: 6,145
And1: 1,832
Joined: Jul 03, 2010
         

Re: Bulls considering Kenny Atkinson for HC 

Post#116 » by MrFortune3 » Thu Jun 18, 2020 10:26 pm

dougthonus wrote:
MrFortune3 wrote:My responses have been directed towards your initial premise when we began debating, Because I cannot fathom how you even began at that premise. The reason none of us have given merit to it is because anyone looking at the Nets initial situation knows that it has no merit to it.


Great, so we agree then, that you are the one who is dug in on your opinion.


Not dug in, I don't give merit to arguments that make no sense.
You usually bring a lot to the table but on this subject you are flat out wrong and there is no merit to your stance.
That's why even though almost none of us think Atkinson should be the next coach, most of us agree that you are flat out wrong.
User avatar
MrFortune3
Head Coach
Posts: 6,145
And1: 1,832
Joined: Jul 03, 2010
         

Re: Bulls considering Kenny Atkinson for HC 

Post#117 » by MrFortune3 » Thu Jun 18, 2020 10:59 pm

dougthonus wrote:
MrFortune3 wrote:Those Suns teams he had were never winning a title, too many defensive flaws to hold up in a 7 games finals series and it's the same with the Rockets teams even the one where CP3 got hurt.


The Rockets were a game away from the finals, where they would have been favored, while competing against one of the all time great dynasties and lost due to an injury to one of their 2 best players.

If you don't think they were a title caliber team, then I'm not sure what to tell you, it seems pretty obvious to me that they were a few unlucky events away from winning a title. Chris Paul stays healthy, they easily could have won. If there wasn't one of the two greatest teams ever assembled in front of them then they easily could have won.

They obviously didn't win, but pretty weird to me that you don't think they could have. Do you also think there is no circumstance where the late 90s Jazz could have won a title? Like if they didn't have to go through the other greatest team ever assembled that they might have been able to pull it off? Do you think Jerry Sloan is overrated as well and would you also rank him as a worse coach than Atkinson?


You carefully leave out that the Warriors had Iggy missing in that same series for the final 4 games which is what allowed that Rockets team to take the Warriors to a game from the finals to begin with. Because the Warriors were up 2-1 in the series before Iggy missed games 4-7. Paul only missed the final 2.

I didn't say they weren't title caliber, I said they wouldn't have won. Let's say they get to the finals, who on that Rockets team is checking LeBron James in the finals? He probably puts on a one man clinic. They would have been favored but the match up would have been badly in their favor.

I think Sloan is one of the best coaches in NBA history and his reputation around the league reflects that.
I think D'Antoni is a great offensive innovator but I don't think he's a great coach by any stretch. He has a offensive system that makes fans excited but in the end he never wins anything.

With that being said, that's also preference. Kind of like Harden. He's one of the most lethal offensive players in the NBA and in NBA history and I cannot stand watching him play and I hate his game. But plenty of players and fans love watching him work.
dice
RealGM
Posts: 36,430
And1: 9,699
Joined: Jun 30, 2003
Location: chicago

Re: Bulls considering Kenny Atkinson for HC 

Post#118 » by dice » Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:19 pm

dougthonus wrote:
MrFortune3 wrote:Yeah....I'm not a fan of D'Antoni at all. So I don't have a problem with KA being considered better than him :lol:


There is something to the idea that the longer the resume a guy has, the less people like him, because there are more visible flaws. He wasn't successful with the Knicks or Lakers obviously. His legacy would have been really interesting had it not been for some key injuries. Likely would have won the title with the Rockets had Chris Paul not gotten hurt, and had a similar situation in Phoenix.

I think D'Antoni should go down historically as a pretty great coach. He's invented offensive systems that were massively successful that literally no one else in the league was doing on two separate occasions to fit vastly different types of personnel. I think that's actually a pretty unique and amazing achievement relative to most coaches.

what offensive system did d'antoni invent that paul westhead wasn't doing decades before?

d'antoni's teams do great when he has a HOF point guard
"all those muscles ain't gonna help you tonight. i'm gonna bust you up" - larry bird to rookie anthony mason before going for 29/18/11
dice
RealGM
Posts: 36,430
And1: 9,699
Joined: Jun 30, 2003
Location: chicago

Re: Bulls considering Kenny Atkinson for HC 

Post#119 » by dice » Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:22 pm

MrFortune3 wrote:
dougthonus wrote:
MrFortune3 wrote:Those Suns teams he had were never winning a title, too many defensive flaws to hold up in a 7 games finals series and it's the same with the Rockets teams even the one where CP3 got hurt.


The Rockets were a game away from the finals, where they would have been favored, while competing against one of the all time great dynasties and lost due to an injury to one of their 2 best players.

If you don't think they were a title caliber team, then I'm not sure what to tell you, it seems pretty obvious to me that they were a few unlucky events away from winning a title. Chris Paul stays healthy, they easily could have won. If there wasn't one of the two greatest teams ever assembled in front of them then they easily could have won.

They obviously didn't win, but pretty weird to me that you don't think they could have. Do you also think there is no circumstance where the late 90s Jazz could have won a title? Like if they didn't have to go through the other greatest team ever assembled that they might have been able to pull it off? Do you think Jerry Sloan is overrated as well and would you also rank him as a worse coach than Atkinson?


You carefully leave out that the Warriors had Iggy missing in that same series for the final 4 games which is what allowed that Rockets team to take the Warriors to a game from the finals to begin with. Because the Warriors were up 2-1 in the series before Iggy missed games 4-7. Paul only missed the final 2.

I didn't say they weren't title caliber, I said they wouldn't have won.

any team that could beat the warriors that year could have beaten the cavs

With that being said, that's also preference. Kind of like Harden. He's one of the most lethal offensive players in the NBA and in NBA history and I cannot stand watching him play and I hate his game. But plenty of players and fans love watching him work.

harden is interesting to watch do his thing...until he blatantly travels or flops or takes a step back shot...and all of that is pretty frequent, unfortunately
"all those muscles ain't gonna help you tonight. i'm gonna bust you up" - larry bird to rookie anthony mason before going for 29/18/11
User avatar
dougthonus
Senior Mod - Bulls
Senior Mod - Bulls
Posts: 46,615
And1: 6,819
Joined: Dec 22, 2004
Contact:

Re: Bulls considering Kenny Atkinson for HC 

Post#120 » by dougthonus » Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:25 pm

MrFortune3 wrote:Not dug in, I don't give merit to arguments that make no sense.
You usually bring a lot to the table but on this subject you are flat out wrong and there is no merit to your stance.


You apparently have no idea what it means to be dug in on a topic, because this is a hilarious contradiction. I'm dug in on many topics, as an example, I'm dug in on the topic that slavery is wrong. I'm not willing to listen to an alternative opinion that slavery is actually good.

The fact that you are unwilling to listen to an opposing view, and think it is flat out wrong and are dismissive is literally the definition of being dug in on a topic.

That's why even though almost none of us think Atkinson should be the next coach, most of us agree that you are flat out wrong.


Please tell me what my stance on the topic is because I honestly don't think you know.

Return to Chicago Bulls