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Re: OT: COVID-19 thread #3
Posted: Thu Nov 12, 2020 4:11 pm
by Ccwatercraft
_txchilibowl_ wrote:Ccwatercraft wrote:jmajew wrote:I know this may not be politically correct, but the people that are most at risk of dying from COVID are people over the age of 65, much as they are more susceptible to dying form the regular flu too. I have long thought we are better off putting a stay at home order for anyone 65 or older, and put strict safety precautions in for assisted living facilities/ senior living facilities. I understand why we didn't go that route and aren't now, but it would have been interesting to see that in action. My gut says we will be in lockdown again in Illinois in the next two weeks.
An over 65 stay at home order would help perhaps, but that would include a list that includes a good chunk of our politicians (starting with the president elect) and news broadcasters just for starters, half of our NFL head coaches are over 65.
Most people over 65 that I know are being cautious already, but "cautious" really means many just being a little more cautious than those of us in the 50-65 bracket. Even many that tell me they are being super careful are still going to the grocery and department stores with regularity. I'm just guessing but those that are actually doing it "right" are in the single digit % and some of those are still going to catch it.
Have you changed your mind regarding precautions that need to be taken? Because I remember that you were of the "I'm going to do what I want" mindset earlier during the pandemic.
Btw, this isn't meant to be confrontational. I'm genuinely interested to see if people's thought processes are open to change. Especially in places like Florida where I have many friends and family.
Of course it changed, back "then" 7 glorious months ago we had at best a handful if cases in my county of about a million and deaths were rare, even during the peak we only had 2-4 deaths and now its back down to 0 or 1, much much lower by far than Miami, which I avoided before covid anyway. But yes, I'm still going out of the house just like many others, my spouse is still leaving the house just like many others. We are dependent on our income just like many others. My spouse works in a high traffic area, human contact is unavoidable, so I'm exposed no matter what I do. I've traveled for work and personal reasons, I'm not a hermit, I can't afford to be.
Miami-dade has been one of the most strict areas in Florida since the beginning, and they have has absolutely terrible numbers the whole time with 3x the population of my area but 8x the case count and 6x the deaths. So if you have concerns about Florida and your family lives there, then you should probably be concerned.
I wouldn't suggest them heading to Illinois for safety, Illinois is doing terrible right now and I have friends and family scattered everywhere. Are peoples thought processes open to change there?
Re: OT: COVID-19 thread #3
Posted: Thu Nov 12, 2020 4:22 pm
by _txchilibowl_
Ccwatercraft wrote:_txchilibowl_ wrote:Ccwatercraft wrote:
An over 65 stay at home order would help perhaps, but that would include a list that includes a good chunk of our politicians (starting with the president elect) and news broadcasters just for starters, half of our NFL head coaches are over 65.
Most people over 65 that I know are being cautious already, but "cautious" really means many just being a little more cautious than those of us in the 50-65 bracket. Even many that tell me they are being super careful are still going to the grocery and department stores with regularity. I'm just guessing but those that are actually doing it "right" are in the single digit % and some of those are still going to catch it.
Have you changed your mind regarding precautions that need to be taken? Because I remember that you were of the "I'm going to do what I want" mindset earlier during the pandemic.
Btw, this isn't meant to be confrontational. I'm genuinely interested to see if people's thought processes are open to change. Especially in places like Florida where I have many friends and family.
Of course it changed, back "then" 7 glorious months ago we had at best a handful if cases in my county of about a million and deaths were rare, even during the peak we only had 2-4 deaths and now its back down to 0 or 1, much much lower by far than Miami, which I avoided before covid anyway. But yes, I'm still going out of the house just like many others, my spouse is still leaving the house just like many others. We are dependent on our income just like many others. My spouse works in a high traffic area, human contact is unavoidable, so I'm exposed no matter what I do. I've traveled for work and personal reasons, I'm not a hermit, I can't afford to be.
Miami-dade has been one of the most strict areas in Florida since the beginning, and they have has absolutely terrible numbers the whole time with 3x the population of my area but 8x the case count and 6x the deaths. So if you have concerns about Florida and your family lives there, then you should probably be concerned.
I wouldn't suggest them heading to Illinois for safety, Illinois is doing terrible right now and I have friends and family scattered everywhere. Are peoples thought processes open to change there?
Glad to hear it. My family unfortunately is being about as hard-headed as can be with regards to the virus. "Freedom" is a word that's get thrown around a lot with them.
With regards to Illinois, I can't speak to that. I live in Colorado. We've been pretty good about keeping the numbers down for the most part but, like most of the country, we are now seeing massive spikes in cases, hospitalizations, and deaths. We are probably not far from another lockdown.
Re: OT: COVID-19 thread #3
Posted: Thu Nov 12, 2020 5:24 pm
by Ccwatercraft
_txchilibowl_ wrote:Ccwatercraft wrote:_txchilibowl_ wrote:
Have you changed your mind regarding precautions that need to be taken? Because I remember that you were of the "I'm going to do what I want" mindset earlier during the pandemic.
Btw, this isn't meant to be confrontational. I'm genuinely interested to see if people's thought processes are open to change. Especially in places like Florida where I have many friends and family.
Of course it changed, back "then" 7 glorious months ago we had at best a handful if cases in my county of about a million and deaths were rare, even during the peak we only had 2-4 deaths and now its back down to 0 or 1, much much lower by far than Miami, which I avoided before covid anyway. But yes, I'm still going out of the house just like many others, my spouse is still leaving the house just like many others. We are dependent on our income just like many others. My spouse works in a high traffic area, human contact is unavoidable, so I'm exposed no matter what I do. I've traveled for work and personal reasons, I'm not a hermit, I can't afford to be.
Miami-dade has been one of the most strict areas in Florida since the beginning, and they have has absolutely terrible numbers the whole time with 3x the population of my area but 8x the case count and 6x the deaths. So if you have concerns about Florida and your family lives there, then you should probably be concerned.
I wouldn't suggest them heading to Illinois for safety, Illinois is doing terrible right now and I have friends and family scattered everywhere. Are peoples thought processes open to change there?
Glad to hear it. My family unfortunately is being about as hard-headed as can be with regards to the virus. "Freedom" is a word that's get thrown around a lot with them.
With regards to Illinois, I can't speak to that. I live in Colorado. We've been pretty good about keeping the numbers down for the most part but, like most of the country, we are now seeing massive spikes in cases, hospitalizations, and deaths. We are probably not far from another lockdown.
yes to Colorado, I've been there multiple times since this started since I have family there so I've been to boulder, co springs, nederlands, Breckenridge and all parts in between, with the state mandate mask compliance was extremely high, say 98% in my experience, even a few wore them out on the hiking trails. Restaurants were still pretty dam full, but being as we were staying in a hotel there weren't many options. Even ordering take out is "safer" but still not "safe"
What was weird/funny is that when we arrive they are shoving all of us on the train to go from one terminal to the next, we're standing shoulder to shoulder, 300 strangers from every state that were just in 30 different airports and 80 different planes for the past 3 hours. Then are reminded to stay 6 feet away with signs when we get off, and don't get me started on the Fox rental car bus (disgusting). Again "safer" but not "safe" , being cautious and lockdown lite are only slowing the inevitable spread.
yesterdays numbers
Florida 5800 cases 48 deaths
population adjusted napkin math.
Illinois. 21,500 cases 260 deaths
Wisconson 25,400 cases 225 deaths
Colorado 14,500 cases 60 deaths.
I'm feeling pretty good about my local situation by comparison, especially since its the high density areas that account for the vast majority of our cases/deaths.
Re: OT: COVID-19 thread #3
Posted: Thu Nov 12, 2020 7:30 pm
by Jcool0
Re: OT: COVID-19 thread #3
Posted: Thu Nov 12, 2020 10:59 pm
by Dez
It sucks but it absolutely works.
14 days and 14 zeroes.
Re: OT: COVID-19 thread #3
Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2020 12:48 am
by Dresden
Closing in on 150K new cases a day now, and the Corona Task Force hasn't met since Oct. 20th. Trump hasn't said anything to provide direction or leadership since the election. Maybe he doesn't realize that he's still the president until Jan. 20th? A new model out today predicts 190K more deaths by March 1. And we're turning the corner now, Trump?
Re: OT: COVID-19 thread #3
Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2020 7:11 pm
by Dresden
WASHINGTON - More than 130 Secret Service officers who help protect the White House and the president when he travels have recently been ordered to isolate or quarantine because they tested positive for the coronavirus or had close contact with infected co-workers, according to three people familiar with agency staffing.
The spread of the coronavirus - which has sidelined roughly 10 percent of the agency's core security team - is believed to be partly linked to a series of campaign rallies that President Donald Trump held in the weeks before the Nov. 3 election, according to the people, who, like others interviewed for this report, spoke on the condition of anonymity to describe the situation.
Re: OT: COVID-19 thread #3
Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2020 2:31 am
by dice
Dresden wrote:Closing in on 150K new cases a day now, and the Corona Task Force hasn't met since Oct. 20th. Trump hasn't said anything to provide direction or leadership since the election. Maybe he doesn't realize that he's still the president until Jan. 20th? A new model out today predicts 190K more deaths by March 1. And we're turning the corner now, Trump?
he didn't even mention the virus in his first public address since losing the election
Re: OT: COVID-19 thread #3
Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2020 2:52 am
by Chi town
Seems like everyone is moving towards strict lockdowns with the holidays near and our biggest spike yet soon after. I’m hearing every week from friends or extended family across the country that are getting it.
Makes me wonder who is really going to obey the lockdown? Gavin Newsom just got blasted for giving very strict guidelines and then going to a Bday party in which he violated all the guidelines himself.
I personally think the large majority of people won’t truly lockdown again. Was in an online conference last week and the speaker was noting how the pandemic is destroying the poor. Millions moving into poverty here in the US due to the lockdown and job loss. His quote... “We are destroying the poor to keep the wealthy healthy.” We obviously know the wealthy are getting it too though.
Re: OT: COVID-19 thread #3
Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2020 2:54 am
by Chi town
Dresden wrote:Closing in on 150K new cases a day now, and the Corona Task Force hasn't met since Oct. 20th. Trump hasn't said anything to provide direction or leadership since the election. Maybe he doesn't realize that he's still the president until Jan. 20th? A new model out today predicts 190K more deaths by March 1. And we're turning the corner now, Trump?
Awful leadership. I knew if he didn’t get elected we’d lose him as president because all he would do is fight to overturn. So 2020.
Re: OT: COVID-19 thread #3
Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2020 5:06 am
by dice
Chi town wrote:Dresden wrote:Closing in on 150K new cases a day now, and the Corona Task Force hasn't met since Oct. 20th. Trump hasn't said anything to provide direction or leadership since the election. Maybe he doesn't realize that he's still the president until Jan. 20th? A new model out today predicts 190K more deaths by March 1. And we're turning the corner now, Trump?
Awful leadership. I knew if he didn’t get elected
we’d lose him as president because all he would do is fight to overturn. So 2020.
not much of a loss
Re: OT: COVID-19 thread #3
Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2020 5:09 am
by dice
Chi town wrote:Seems like everyone is moving towards strict lockdowns with the holidays near and our biggest spike yet soon after. I’m hearing every week from friends or extended family across the country that are getting it.
Makes me wonder who is really going to obey the lockdown? Gavin Newsom just got blasted for giving very strict guidelines and then going to a Bday party in which he violated all the guidelines himself.
I personally think the large majority of people won’t truly lockdown again. Was in an online conference last week and the speaker was noting how the pandemic is destroying the poor. Millions moving into poverty here in the US due to the lockdown and job loss. His quote... “We are destroying the poor to keep the wealthy healthy.” We obviously know the wealthy are getting it too though.
i've said from the beginning that the baseline is keeping the hospitals from overflowing. can't have people dying on the street waiting to get into the hospital. beyond that, i'm open to a variety of approaches. but no government mask requirements, like in florida? incredibly irresponsible
Re: OT: COVID-19 thread #3
Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2020 1:59 pm
by Michael Jackson
Chi town wrote:Seems like everyone is moving towards strict lockdowns with the holidays near and our biggest spike yet soon after. I’m hearing every week from friends or extended family across the country that are getting it.
Makes me wonder who is really going to obey the lockdown? Gavin Newsom just got blasted for giving very strict guidelines and then going to a Bday party in which he violated all the guidelines himself.
I personally think the large majority of people won’t truly lockdown again. Was in an online conference last week and the speaker was noting how the pandemic is destroying the poor. Millions moving into poverty here in the US due to the lockdown and job loss. His quote... “We are destroying the poor to keep the wealthy healthy.” We obviously know the wealthy are getting it too though.
Yeah I know more and more who have it for sure, I also think because more have it and more assume they have had it, so they care less because of antibodies right? I personally cancelled all my holiday plans, but there are still family holiday plans going on that people are trying to pressure people to go to.
I do agree that financially it is destroying the poor, there is no doubt about that and that it has been pretty good for the rich. The wealthy are getting it but they also aren’t hurting financially. The poor are getting it, dying and losing jobs because of lockdown. There is no doubt who it affects worse.
Re: OT: COVID-19 thread #3
Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2020 3:57 pm
by dougthonus
Chi town wrote:I personally think the large majority of people won’t truly lockdown again. Was in an online conference last week and the speaker was noting how the pandemic is destroying the poor. Millions moving into poverty here in the US due to the lockdown and job loss. His quote... “We are destroying the poor to keep the wealthy healthy.” We obviously know the wealthy are getting it too though.
There is no doubt that the poor are hurt worse than this than the wealthy due to job loss, and the wealthy may be hurt in the near future too because losing consumers will eventually trickle up to them as well (though clearly not as much as the poor are hurting). However, I completely disagree with this phrasing of cause and effect.
We aren't destroying the poor to keep the wealthy healthy. You have a pandemic that we are trying to protect everyone in, and the people without financial reserves whom have lost jobs are hurt the most due to their situation. The poor are always hurt worse in a crisis, not because people prioritize the wealthy, but because they lack the resources to survive a crisis whereas the wealthy can survive considerably longer.
There is no causation of the country choosing the rich over the poor with this pandemic. These rules to try and stop the spread aren't there to protect rich people, they are there to protect all people, and if we had no rules as hospitals started overflowing and people started dying in the streets (almost all poor people), all of these jobs STILL would have gone away.
So yes, we need to do a better job of wealth distribution and creating real safety nets for all people, but there was no scramble to save the rich here or anything like that.
Re: OT: COVID-19 thread #3
Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2020 5:09 pm
by Dresden
I think there are several reasons that the poor are being disproportionally affected by Covid- for one thing, the higher up the ladder you are in your profession or career, the more likely it is that you'll be able to work from home, and thus avoid much public contact. Whereas if you are in the front lines of the service or retail or construction industries, you're out there every day mixing with the general public. And then because of this, Covid is much more likely to be prevalent in poorer communities, so if you live there, your odds of catching it from someone in your community, circle of friends, or family members is much greater too.
So there's several factors which are building upon each other in some communities that are driving their numbers up. I know in San Francisco, the Latino community accounts for something like half of all cases, while their numbers are far less than half.
I think the answer is another 4-6 week lockdown. It should be coordinated on a national level, and the govt. should do what they did in Europe, and simply pay the wages of those affected.
Rather than another Payroll Protection Program, which was rife with fraud, and put the money in the hands of employers. Why not just give it directly to the workers? As well as also giving help to employers, esp. small businesses, so they can continue to pay their bills.
Maybe not every place would have to lockdown- but certainly those showing high infection rates, or where hospital beds are nearing capacity.
Re: OT: COVID-19 thread #3
Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2020 6:43 pm
by Dresden
“A weight’s been lifted off the CDC that allows them to do their job again,” said Scott Becker, chief executive of the Association of Public Health Laboratories who has worked closely with CDC scientists for decades.
Under the Biden administration, the CDC will be restored to its status as the premier public health agency in the world, said Dr. Céline Gounder, a member of Biden’s advisory group on the coronavirus.
“While their role has been diminished during this current crisis, they play a very important role in all this,” she said. The new administration will rebuild public health and data infrastructure, restore CDC staffing in its overseas outposts, and give “control back to the CDC.”
Within the CDC, there is a palpable sense of relief and a determination to return to an apolitical identity, according to four senior scientists who spoke on condition of anonymity because they feared for their jobs.
https://news.yahoo.com/pandemic-surges-cdc-issues-increasingly-162258956.html
Re: OT: COVID-19 thread #3
Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2020 6:48 pm
by Dresden
The Trump administration's handling of the pandemic will be written about in journals and public health textbooks as an example of how the politicization of a public health crisis can produce catastrophic outcomes.
Re: OT: COVID-19 thread #3
Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2020 7:13 pm
by dougthonus
Dresden wrote:The Trump administration's handling of the pandemic will be written about in journals and public health textbooks as an example of how the politicization of a public health crisis can produce catastrophic outcomes.
Stop making this a politics thread.
You have just spammed it with how much you hate Donald Trump. I also hate Donald Trump, but stop using COVID as a reason to just rail on politics repeatedly. If you don't have something that's actually newsworthy to say that is new, then don't post it. It's fine to post stories involving Trump / Corona response that involve actual news or new information but these pot shots that you hate Donald Trump can just stop.
Re: OT: COVID-19 thread #3
Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2020 7:44 pm
by Dresden
dougthonus wrote:Dresden wrote:The Trump administration's handling of the pandemic will be written about in journals and public health textbooks as an example of how the politicization of a public health crisis can produce catastrophic outcomes.
Stop making this a politics thread.
You have just spammed it with how much you hate Donald Trump. I also hate Donald Trump, but stop using COVID as a reason to just rail on politics repeatedly. If you don't have something that's actually newsworthy to say that is new, then don't post it. It's fine to post stories involving Trump / Corona response that involve actual news or new information but these pot shots that you hate Donald Trump can just stop.
Just making a point that much of what is going on in the US is a result of poor leadership, and was not inevitable. I think that's very relevant to the subject of this thread. However, I understand your point.
Re: OT: COVID-19 thread #3
Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2020 7:48 pm
by Dresden