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Article: Does Coby have All Star potential?

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Re: Article: Does Coby have All Star potential? 

Post#21 » by wonderboy2 » Mon Jul 6, 2020 12:31 pm

sco wrote:I don't care as much if he actually makes the All Star Team, as much as I want him to become a top quartile starting PG. That would be huge. If he can be a 20+ppg 6st guy who shoots 38%+ from 3 and plays decent defense - that would be awesome!

He would be an allstar if he does all of that. I definitely think he has allstar potential. White and Lavine are the only ones on the bulls I could see making an Allstar team. Maybe Carter could be if he gets more agressive/confident on offense.
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Re: Article: Does Coby have All Star potential? 

Post#22 » by DuckIII » Mon Jul 6, 2020 12:34 pm

I’m with Doug generally, but not quite so pessimistic in Coby’s case. He had enough special games and showed enough that sure he’s got the potential. The problem with a question like this is that any clearly talented NBA player is a potential Allstar. And that is basically why I say yes.

But is it likely? No. Or even perhaps a better question is does he have the type of potential that projects to be someone you “expect” to be in the Allstar discussion a few times (actually making the Allstar team once matters far less than making it zero times but being regularly in consideration)?

I’d say no. While I like him as our pick more than I did when he was drafted, he still does not have one single truly “special” NBA talent. Not size, not speed (despite the misplaced hype on that), not shooting, not handling, not dishing, not strength, not defense.

Even after his explosion near the end of the Bulls season, he still looks to me like a solid combo guard 6th man type. Which is not a bad thing.
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Re: Article: Does Coby have All Star potential? 

Post#23 » by ChettheJet » Mon Jul 6, 2020 1:18 pm

I enjoy seeing people make their case on his all star potential based on one season of college that they only saw highlights from and his partial rookie NBA season. I hope you go through life that shortsighted.

He certainly showed he can play at a high level with 4 straight 30 point games off the bench. Once he starts and has the front line players out there with him instead of coming off the bench and playing with a couple of NBA reserves and a couple of G League level guys he'll look more polished in his game.

I'd say he's got a lot better chance of being an all star than Markkanen at this point if due only to confidence, and more all around skills than Carter or Gafford
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Re: Article: Does Coby have All Star potential? 

Post#24 » by SHO'NUFF » Mon Jul 6, 2020 1:23 pm

No doubt he could. He was a 19 year old teenager his first year. His midrange & outside shooting was impressive, especially in his last 8-10 games. He has a consistent looking shot.

He played just under 26 mpg. Give him 6-8 more mpg & a starting role.
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Re: Article: Does Coby have All Star potential? 

Post#25 » by sco » Mon Jul 6, 2020 1:26 pm

I think it is fun to speculate, but in terms of being a rookie, especially a 19YO, I think the goal should be that we see flashes of impressive NBA play. Trying to take more than that from a shortened season is probably not useful.

Whether he gets more consistent and, generally improves, will come down to his work ethic - which seems good, so that's encouraging. Many good rookies get satisfied with their game too early in their career and don't develop the habits to improve over time.
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Re: Article: Does Coby have All Star potential? 

Post#26 » by TeamMan » Mon Jul 6, 2020 1:31 pm

sco wrote:https://www.nbcsports.com/chicago/bulls/does-bulls-coby-white-have-all-star-potential-one-nba-insider-thinks-so

IMO - nope, but hope springs eternal.

The comparisons are a stretch, but the one point I can find comfort on was
Talk to anyone in the Bulls’ locker room about White and one thing becomes clear: He works.

1st off, normally articles that end with a question mark are just fluff.

The question mark serves as a disclaimer.

And after reading it, I'd say that's exactly what it is, fluff.

There's no new information given in the article, and I think that the previous threads that talked Coby are better.
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Re: Article: Does Coby have All Star potential? 

Post#27 » by sco » Mon Jul 6, 2020 1:38 pm

TeamMan wrote:
sco wrote:https://www.nbcsports.com/chicago/bulls/does-bulls-coby-white-have-all-star-potential-one-nba-insider-thinks-so

IMO - nope, but hope springs eternal.

The comparisons are a stretch, but the one point I can find comfort on was
Talk to anyone in the Bulls’ locker room about White and one thing becomes clear: He works.

1st off, normally articles that end with a question mark are just fluff.

The question mark serves as a disclaimer.

And after reading it, I'd say that's exactly what it is, fluff.

There's no new information given in the article, and I think that the previous threads that talked Coby are better.

sure, but what new news were you hoping for? Fun to debate the ambiguity.
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Re: Article: Does Coby have All Star potential? 

Post#28 » by kodo » Mon Jul 6, 2020 5:33 pm

Saying "potential" is a pretty low bar. Players with rookie seasons as bad as Coby's at only 19 have turned into stars, like Beal & Booker. From that standpoint, almost every 19 year old that has strung together some great games has all-star potential.

At this age how he handles himself in the next 5 years will matter more than what he's done already. If you looked at Khris Middleton in Detroit, you'd be lying if you said you saw a sure fire all-star, and he was already 21 as a rook.
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Re: Article: Does Coby have All Star potential? 

Post#29 » by TeamMan » Mon Jul 6, 2020 7:37 pm

sco wrote:
TeamMan wrote:
sco wrote:https://www.nbcsports.com/chicago/bulls/does-bulls-coby-white-have-all-star-potential-one-nba-insider-thinks-so

IMO - nope, but hope springs eternal.

The comparisons are a stretch, but the one point I can find comfort on was

1st off, normally articles that end with a question mark are just fluff.

The question mark serves as a disclaimer.

And after reading it, I'd say that's exactly what it is, fluff.

There's no new information given in the article, and I think that the previous threads that talked Coby are better.

sure, but what new news were you hoping for? Fun to debate the ambiguity.

OK

Let's throw the hat into the ring.

IMO for Coby to become an All Star he must have the right players around him who play the right roles. IMO he has the talent. So, this is what I propose (again):

Coby - Of course, must start and be the primary ball handler
Zach - Must be able to accept that Coby will have the ball in his hand most of the time
WCJ (PF) - Will be the enforcer and primary defensive rebounder, needs to bring back his 3P shot from college
Gafford (C) - Rim protector, low-post scorer, and closer on the fast break (WCJ stays back as primary transition defender)
SF - 3&D role player. OPJ showed flashes of filling this role in his 1st year with the Bulls. But maybe we can get someone else in the draft

Can these players accept their roles and let Coby be the All Star candidate?

If yes, then go for it.

If no, then make some trades until you get the right players that will help get Coby to the All Star level.
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Re: Article: Does Coby have All Star potential? 

Post#30 » by sco » Mon Jul 6, 2020 7:52 pm

TeamMan wrote:
sco wrote:
TeamMan wrote:1st off, normally articles that end with a question mark are just fluff.

The question mark serves as a disclaimer.

And after reading it, I'd say that's exactly what it is, fluff.

There's no new information given in the article, and I think that the previous threads that talked Coby are better.

sure, but what new news were you hoping for? Fun to debate the ambiguity.

OK

Let's throw the hat into the ring.

IMO for Coby to become an All Star he must have the right players around him who play the right roles. IMO he has the talent. So, this is what I propose (again):

Coby - Of course, must start and be the primary ball handler
Zach - Must be able to accept that Coby will have the ball in his hand most of the time
WCJ (PF) - Will be the enforcer and primary defensive rebounder, needs to bring back his 3P shot from college
Gafford (C) - Rim protector, low-post scorer, and closer on the fast break (WCJ stays back as primary transition defender)
SF - 3&D role player. OPJ showed flashes of filling this role in his 1st year with the Bulls. But maybe we can get someone else in the draft

Can these players accept their roles and let Coby be the All Star candidate?

If yes, then go for it.

I applaud your thinking. I'm not sure the FO will be sold on any Bulls players (including Coby) as even core pieces (much less guy to build around) until after next season.

If no, then make some trades until you get the right players that will help get Coby to the All Star level.
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Re: Article: Does Coby have All Star potential? 

Post#31 » by PaKii94 » Mon Jul 6, 2020 8:11 pm

I think he can be. If a player like Lavine is in consideration for it, then Coby definitely can be

https://fansided.com/2020/04/08/nylon-calculus-rookie-review-chicago-bulls-coby-white/
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Re: Article: Does Coby have All Star potential? 

Post#32 » by DuckIII » Mon Jul 6, 2020 8:16 pm

TeamMan wrote:
sco wrote:
TeamMan wrote:1st off, normally articles that end with a question mark are just fluff.

The question mark serves as a disclaimer.

And after reading it, I'd say that's exactly what it is, fluff.

There's no new information given in the article, and I think that the previous threads that talked Coby are better.

sure, but what new news were you hoping for? Fun to debate the ambiguity.

OK

Let's throw the hat into the ring.

IMO for Coby to become an All Star he must have the right players around him who play the right roles. IMO he has the talent. So, this is what I propose (again):

Coby - Of course, must start and be the primary ball handler
Zach - Must be able to accept that Coby will have the ball in his hand most of the time
WCJ (PF) - Will be the enforcer and primary defensive rebounder, needs to bring back his 3P shot from college
Gafford (C) - Rim protector, low-post scorer, and closer on the fast break (WCJ stays back as primary transition defender)
SF - 3&D role player. OPJ showed flashes of filling this role in his 1st year with the Bulls. But maybe we can get someone else in the draft

Can these players accept their roles and let Coby be the All Star candidate?

If yes, then go for it.

If no, then make some trades until you get the right players that will help get Coby to the All Star level.


First of all, that starting lineup caps out at being garbage. Second, if AK bases his rebuilding program around what’s best for Coby White then god help us.

I’m not sure from your post if you are actually advocating any of this though, or simply describing it.
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Re: Article: Does Coby have All Star potential? 

Post#33 » by Showtime23 » Mon Jul 6, 2020 8:44 pm

TeamMan wrote:
IMO for Coby to become an All Star he must have the right players around him who play the right roles. IMO he has the talent. So, this is what I propose (again):

Coby - Of course, must start and be the primary ball handler
Zach - Must be able to accept that Coby will have the ball in his hand most of the time
WCJ (PF) - Will be the enforcer and primary defensive rebounder, needs to bring back his 3P shot from college
Gafford (C) - Rim protector, low-post scorer, and closer on the fast break (WCJ stays back as primary transition defender)
SF - 3&D role player. OPJ showed flashes of filling this role in his 1st year with the Bulls. But maybe we can get someone else in the draft

Can these players accept their roles and let Coby be the All Star candidate?

If yes, then go for it.

If no, then make some trades until you get the right players that will help get Coby to the All Star level.


Heres the problem. How do you know he is going to be an allstar and not knowing that how would you literally all in on him?
I dont mind if AK had a crystal ball but betting on less than 1% chance seems like misguided gambling at vegas.

And yeah with Zach ball hogging against Lauri he is def not going to defer to White I can guarantee. Why would he defer to his own competitor and 19 yrold kid when he worked "so hard" to be this special 25 ppg scorer?
Giving him the ball means your playing second fiddle is what most NBA players that havent won a chip think.
Lavine is all about getting that supermax, being an alpha on the team. He is not going to self destruct unless AK intervenes.
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Re: Article: Does Coby have All Star potential? 

Post#34 » by Showtime23 » Mon Jul 6, 2020 8:47 pm

SHO'NUFF wrote:No doubt he could. He was a 19 year old teenager his first year. His midrange & outside shooting was impressive, especially in his last 8-10 games. He has a consistent looking shot.

He played just under 26 mpg. Give him 6-8 more mpg & a starting role.


Because he literally took more shots than Lauri who was a borderline all star last yr, sure hes going to have impressive moments.
Man I still cannot believe Lauri made 14.7pts on 11.8 shots while White took 12.2 shots to score 13.2pts.
Which literally shows why they dont have any kind of system and any resemblance of a pecking order.

Literally every player can get their buckets if given the green light as much as Coby. Like Carter, I dont see this star potential most Chicago fans are seeing. What's so special about these players they are the core? I dont see them any better prospects than A Simons or Z Collins.
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Re: Article: Does Coby have All Star potential? 

Post#35 » by Little Nathan » Mon Jul 6, 2020 8:50 pm

Showtime23 wrote:Because he literally took more shots than Lauri who was a borderline all star last yr


I'm sorry...borderline WHAT?!
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Re: Article: Does Coby have All Star potential? 

Post#36 » by Little Nathan » Mon Jul 6, 2020 9:02 pm

I think that Coby would probably have to hit his ceiling outcome to be that kind of player, especially as a shooter. But at this point, I don't care about him potentially making the ASG in the future. I want him to become a consistent shooter off the catch and off the dribble, improve his finishing, work on his ability to create shots for others so he can at least be a secondary creator in the future and improve his defense on- and (especially) off-ball. That's a lot of work to do, but I believe in him. I think he can be a valuable piece, All Star or not.
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Re: Article: Does Coby have All Star potential? 

Post#37 » by sco » Tue Jul 7, 2020 1:31 am

Little Nathan wrote:
Showtime23 wrote:Because he literally took more shots than Lauri who was a borderline all star last yr


I'm sorry...borderline WHAT?!

If Showtime23 is a Finn, it may be a Finnish translation problem. Borderline in Finnish could mean "one who watches on TV". If Showtime23 is not from Finland...I dunno.
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Re: Article: Does Coby have All Star potential? 

Post#38 » by aramada » Tue Jul 7, 2020 2:11 am

There seems to be an assumption that White's post-All Star prowess was a fluke and that he's going to be super streaky for his entire career. That's definitely possible, but no matter how you look at it, doing this at just under 20 is impressive. You could also see that he got more comfortable and finally found his spots on the floor. Part of that is being allowed to pull up from mid range, which he wasn't doing much of until then. We know that he has that ability to create separation to get his shot. Elite scorers are prime All Star candidates, and he has a decent chance of becoming an elite scorer. Add to it that he may be at least average on defense and playmaking in the future and I like his chances.
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Re: Article: Does Coby have All Star potential? 

Post#39 » by Showtime23 » Tue Jul 7, 2020 11:48 am

aramada wrote:There seems to be an assumption that White's post-All Star prowess was a fluke and that he's going to be super streaky for his entire career. That's definitely possible, but no matter how you look at it, doing this at just under 20 is impressive. You could also see that he got more comfortable and finally found his spots on the floor. Part of that is being allowed to pull up from mid range, which he wasn't doing much of until then. We know that he has that ability to create separation to get his shot. Elite scorers are prime All Star candidates, and he has a decent chance of becoming an elite scorer. Add to it that he may be at least average on defense and playmaking in the future and I like his chances.


no the allstar prowess proves he is not a bust and a pick that would save garpax fate.
10 game sample size doesnt mean anything unless he tears it up over this bubble.
the only ability he has is separation move and pull up jumper but his speed is slower than Slowic and isnt really a great inside scorer either. he can barely score on 3 levels so hes not an elite prospect to say the least.
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Re: Article: Does Coby have All Star potential? 

Post#40 » by Showtime23 » Tue Jul 7, 2020 11:49 am

Little Nathan wrote:I think that Coby would probably have to hit his ceiling outcome to be that kind of player, especially as a shooter. But at this point, I don't care about him potentially making the ASG in the future. I want him to become a consistent shooter off the catch and off the dribble, improve his finishing, work on his ability to create shots for others so he can at least be a secondary creator in the future and improve his defense on- and (especially) off-ball. That's a lot of work to do, but I believe in him. I think he can be a valuable piece, All Star or not.


yes he can be a valuable 6th man but thats not why the Bulls draft in the lottery. They need higher upside players than Lauri, whom we never had for years as a draft prospect. In this draft, Ball Edwards projects to be those types.
The Bulls traded a much better version in Jamal Crawford who had an all star caliber career and will play up till now.

fast rebuild means keeping only high ceiling high upside players. white would be a great piece for the lakers but not for rebuilding teams. would trade white, Lavine for MPJ in a heartbeat.

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