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Article: Does Coby have All Star potential?

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Re: Article: Does Coby have All Star potential? 

Post#41 » by Little Nathan » Tue Jul 7, 2020 11:54 am

Showtime23 wrote:
Little Nathan wrote:I think that Coby would probably have to hit his ceiling outcome to be that kind of player, especially as a shooter. But at this point, I don't care about him potentially making the ASG in the future. I want him to become a consistent shooter off the catch and off the dribble, improve his finishing, work on his ability to create shots for others so he can at least be a secondary creator in the future and improve his defense on- and (especially) off-ball. That's a lot of work to do, but I believe in him. I think he can be a valuable piece, All Star or not.


yes he can be a valuable 6th man but thats not why the Bulls draft in the lottery. They need higher upside players than Lauri, whom we never had for years as a draft prospect. In this draft, Ball Edwards projects to be those types.
The Bulls traded a much better version in Jamal Crawford who had an all star caliber career and will play up till now.

I don't care why the Bulls picked him, I'm just giving my opinion on what he has to work on to be the best version of himself on the court. Few players become stars, but you can't give up on everyone who doesn't.
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Re: Article: Does Coby have All Star potential? 

Post#42 » by JimmyJammer » Tue Jul 7, 2020 12:46 pm

The Box Office wrote:No. Not right now. He's a ball hog. In the future? Don't know. Learn how to run an offense first and win some games. Then we'll see.


Ball hog? I say no. Scorer's mentality? I say yes. Very often that gets confused by many. At the beginning of the season, Boylen made a deliberate effort to use White solely as a scorer by playing him mostly off the ball. His mission, once he got the ball, was to find ways to score it. Honestly, he did a good job of it considering his age and experience. Starting in February, Boylen finally tried to get him to play as a facilitator. It was a mixed result of course, but he was starting to show some real improvement.
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Re: Article: Does Coby have All Star potential? 

Post#43 » by sco » Tue Jul 7, 2020 1:00 pm

JimmyJammer wrote:
The Box Office wrote:No. Not right now. He's a ball hog. In the future? Don't know. Learn how to run an offense first and win some games. Then we'll see.


Ball hog? I say no. Scorer's mentality? I say yes. Very often that gets confused by many. At the beginning of the season, Boylen made a deliberate effort to use White solely as a scorer by playing him mostly off the ball. His mission, once he got the ball, was to find ways to score it. Honestly, he did a good job of it considering his age and experience. Starting in February, Boylen finally tried to get him to play as a facilitator. It was a mixed result of course, but he was starting to show some real improvement.

I am not a Kingpin fan, but I think Boylen did the right thing by slowly bringing White along. I think it gave Coby time to adjust to the speed of the game. Also, I think rookies who walk in on day 1 and start can get satisfied too quickly in their game and not put in the work to continue to improve.
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Re: Article: Does Coby have All Star potential? 

Post#44 » by DASMACKDOWN » Tue Jul 7, 2020 1:16 pm

Being an allstar nearly always has to do with team record.

If the Bulls were .500 or better the last 2 years, Zach Lavine would be a 2 year allstar.

So unless Coby can be a huge fan favorite like Trae Young and win the fan vote, Its most likely a No until the team starts winning. No matter what he does statistically.
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Re: Article: Does Coby have All Star potential? 

Post#45 » by ATRAIN53 » Tue Jul 7, 2020 2:01 pm

I hope so!

We've seen the kid light it up and go on some nice streaks.

He's got the IT factor

Now it just up to him to keep developing his craft.

Who knows how the voting works for the ASG. We just had Zach averaging 25 PPG and he wasn't even close to making it.
Zach has personality too, which is a factor in being an NBA All Star.
What other East guards does he have to compete with also a factor.

Coby seemed mad and determined to show he belonged in the Rookie Challenge.
So the kid cares about this stuff.
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Re: Article: Does Coby have All Star potential? 

Post#46 » by TeamMan » Tue Jul 7, 2020 2:30 pm

DuckIII wrote:
TeamMan wrote:
sco wrote:sure, but what new news were you hoping for? Fun to debate the ambiguity.

OK

Let's throw the hat into the ring.

IMO for Coby to become an All Star he must have the right players around him who play the right roles. IMO he has the talent. So, this is what I propose (again):

Coby - Of course, must start and be the primary ball handler
Zach - Must be able to accept that Coby will have the ball in his hand most of the time
WCJ (PF) - Will be the enforcer and primary defensive rebounder, needs to bring back his 3P shot from college
Gafford (C) - Rim protector, low-post scorer, and closer on the fast break (WCJ stays back as primary transition defender)
SF - 3&D role player. OPJ showed flashes of filling this role in his 1st year with the Bulls. But maybe we can get someone else in the draft

Can these players accept their roles and let Coby be the All Star candidate?

If yes, then go for it.

If no, then make some trades until you get the right players that will help get Coby to the All Star level.


First of all, that starting lineup caps out at being garbage. Second, if AK bases his rebuilding program around what’s best for Coby White then god help us.

I’m not sure from your post if you are actually advocating any of this though, or simply describing it.

That's right, I started out by saying that the article is "Fluff".

Then I was prompted to ignore that, and accept the hypothetical possibility.

Accepting that hypothetical possibility, I made a projection based upon the talent that is currently on the team.

But (hypothetically) if that talent does not help to carry Coby to being an All Star, then I suggested that trades be made to make the hypothetical projection more of a possibility.
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Re: Article: Does Coby have All Star potential? 

Post#47 » by dice » Tue Jul 7, 2020 10:58 pm

DASMACKDOWN wrote:Being an allstar nearly always has to do with team record.

most of the time. for role players. here are the statistically worst seasons for all-stars along with team wins:

63 duckworth
58 hollins
56 hibbert
56 d davis
54 chandler
53 donaldson
51 eaton
47 a davis

43 tyrone hill
43 jayson williams
41 magloire
39 duckworth
38 willis
34 holiday
29 kaman
24 gatling

If the Bulls were .500 or better the last 2 years, Zach Lavine would be a 2 year allstar.

if lavine played like an all-star, the team would have been better. and if he was on a good team, he would have had a smaller role. so the only real reason that he's gotten all-star mentions is that he's been scoring a lot on bad teams...in a weak conference
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Re: Article: Does Coby have All Star potential? 

Post#48 » by 2018C3 » Wed Jul 8, 2020 1:43 am

I think Coby has the potential to be a top three performing guy on a successful team.

As it stands now in are situation, I think he has top two asset potential within our currently constructed roster.

Zach is our best player (Although flawed himself), and soon Coby might be number two in terms of potential verses salary. I don't have much faith in any of are established bigs into becoming a perennial all star difference maker's.

For me they are all at most just capable roster fillers. Not difference makers who are capable of shifting powers in this league.

If I had AK type power, I would actively seek trades for both Lauri Markkanen, and also Wendell Carter looking for the best return possible regardless of position.
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Re: Article: Does Coby have All Star potential? 

Post#49 » by WICKED17 » Wed Jul 8, 2020 5:50 am

Yes. It would require vast improvement on his efficiency.
Bottom line, Extremely doubtful.
Likely result... hell no!!!
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Re: Article: Does Coby have All Star potential? 

Post#50 » by WICKED17 » Wed Jul 8, 2020 5:54 am

Consolidation trade (ASAP)says ... Hello
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Re: Article: Does Coby have All Star potential? 

Post#51 » by Dez » Thu Jul 9, 2020 12:01 am

WICKED17 wrote:Yes. It would require vast improvement on his efficiency.
Bottom line, Extremely doubtful.
Likely result... hell no!!!


WICKED17 wrote:Consolidation trade (ASAP)says ... Hello


This is a poor and extremely short sighted post.

Coby was 19 years old and showed definite All Star potential, to want to trade him after a very promising rookie season is both bizarre and asinine.
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Re: Article: Does Coby have All Star potential? 

Post#52 » by WindyCityBorn » Sun Jul 12, 2020 3:14 am

dice wrote:
DASMACKDOWN wrote:Being an allstar nearly always has to do with team record.

most of the time. for role players. here are the statistically worst seasons for all-stars along with team wins:

63 duckworth
58 hollins
56 hibbert
56 d davis
54 chandler
53 donaldson
51 eaton
47 a davis

43 tyrone hill
43 jayson williams
41 magloire
39 duckworth
38 willis
34 holiday
29 kaman
24 gatling

If the Bulls were .500 or better the last 2 years, Zach Lavine would be a 2 year allstar.

if lavine played like an all-star, the team would have been better. and if he was on a good team, he would have had a smaller role. so the only real reason that he's gotten all-star mentions is that he's been scoring a lot on bad teams...in a weak conference


LaVine could easily put similar number with less responsibility. Probably better more efficient numbers. If we magically added Giannis or Davis he would still average 24+.
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Re: Article: Does Coby have All Star potential? 

Post#53 » by wonderboy2 » Sun Jul 12, 2020 3:26 am

WindyCityBorn wrote:
dice wrote:
DASMACKDOWN wrote:Being an allstar nearly always has to do with team record.

most of the time. for role players. here are the statistically worst seasons for all-stars along with team wins:

63 duckworth
58 hollins
56 hibbert
56 d davis
54 chandler
53 donaldson
51 eaton
47 a davis

43 tyrone hill
43 jayson williams
41 magloire
39 duckworth
38 willis
34 holiday
29 kaman
24 gatling

If the Bulls were .500 or better the last 2 years, Zach Lavine would be a 2 year allstar.

if lavine played like an all-star, the team would have been better. and if he was on a good team, he would have had a smaller role. so the only real reason that he's gotten all-star mentions is that he's been scoring a lot on bad teams...in a weak conference


LaVine could easily put similar number with less responsibility. Probably better more efficient numbers. If we magically added Giannis or Davis he would still average 24+.

Exactly Lavine definitely played like an allstar. Not his fault most of his key teammates were injured a lot and the teammates he did played with suck. He also had to share the backcourt with a pg who was scared as hell to shoot most of the season in Sato. For most of the season he didn’t have Otto, Carter, Markan. That’s more than half of your starting line up. You would have to be Lebron to make the playoffs with the squad Lavine had most of the season. Even then Lavine put up an efficient 25 points per game.
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Re: Article: Does Coby have All Star potential? 

Post#54 » by wonderboy2 » Sun Jul 12, 2020 3:30 am

Coby, and Lavine are easily the most talented players on the team. The most overrated player on this team especially on this board is Sato. Dude was dog **** this season. Bulls made a huge mistake by signing him. He’s vastly overpaid. There are vet minimim PGs that are better than him.
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Re: Article: Does Coby have All Star potential? 

Post#55 » by dice » Sun Jul 12, 2020 4:22 am

WindyCityBorn wrote:
dice wrote:
DASMACKDOWN wrote:Being an allstar nearly always has to do with team record.

most of the time. for role players. here are the statistically worst seasons for all-stars along with team wins:

63 duckworth
58 hollins
56 hibbert
56 d davis
54 chandler
53 donaldson
51 eaton
47 a davis

43 tyrone hill
43 jayson williams
41 magloire
39 duckworth
38 willis
34 holiday
29 kaman
24 gatling

If the Bulls were .500 or better the last 2 years, Zach Lavine would be a 2 year allstar.

if lavine played like an all-star, the team would have been better. and if he was on a good team, he would have had a smaller role. so the only real reason that he's gotten all-star mentions is that he's been scoring a lot on bad teams...in a weak conference


LaVine could easily put similar number with less responsibility. Probably better more efficient numbers. If we magically added Giannis or Davis he would still average 24+.

possibly. particularly if he was paired with a teammate or two on his general level as a player. but if he was playing with a true superstar...less likely

larry hughes put up 22 a game playing with two other 20+ scorers: arenas and jamison. then he signed a big money contract to be second option to a young lebron and shrank to a role player, averaging 16 a game. efficiency declined as well

then there's kyrie irving, whose scoring maintained and efficiency went up significantly when lebron returned to cleveland

so i guess it comes down to whether zach lavine is more larry hughes or kyrie irving
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Re: Article: Does Coby have All Star potential? 

Post#56 » by PaKii94 » Sun Jul 12, 2020 4:25 am

dice wrote:
WindyCityBorn wrote:
dice wrote:most of the time. for role players. here are the statistically worst seasons for all-stars along with team wins:

63 duckworth
58 hollins
56 hibbert
56 d davis
54 chandler
53 donaldson
51 eaton
47 a davis

43 tyrone hill
43 jayson williams
41 magloire
39 duckworth
38 willis
34 holiday
29 kaman
24 gatling


if lavine played like an all-star, the team would have been better. and if he was on a good team, he would have had a smaller role. so the only real reason that he's gotten all-star mentions is that he's been scoring a lot on bad teams...in a weak conference


LaVine could easily put similar number with less responsibility. Probably better more efficient numbers. If we magically added Giannis or Davis he would still average 24+.

possibly. particularly if he was paired with a teammate or two on his general level as a player. but if he was playing with a true superstar...less likely

larry hughes put up 22 a game playing with two other 20+ scorers: arenas and jamison. then he signed a big money contract to be second option to a young lebron and shrank to a role player, averaging 16 a game. efficiency declined as well

then there's kyrie irving, whose scoring maintained and efficiency went up significantly when lebron returned to cleveland

so i guess it comes down to whether zach lavine is more larry hughes or kyrie irving


I think having a true star talent in front of Zach would help him. He would be forced to take less dumb shots /create bad iso shots which should help his efficiency. In multiple games he would make 2-3 shots in a row and then try taking over the offense and shoot 2-4 bad ones negating the good. If he can cut that out it'd be mostly good shots.
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Re: Article: Does Coby have All Star potential? 

Post#57 » by WindyCityBorn » Sun Jul 12, 2020 5:03 am

dice wrote:
WindyCityBorn wrote:
dice wrote:most of the time. for role players. here are the statistically worst seasons for all-stars along with team wins:

63 duckworth
58 hollins
56 hibbert
56 d davis
54 chandler
53 donaldson
51 eaton
47 a davis

43 tyrone hill
43 jayson williams
41 magloire
39 duckworth
38 willis
34 holiday
29 kaman
24 gatling


if lavine played like an all-star, the team would have been better. and if he was on a good team, he would have had a smaller role. so the only real reason that he's gotten all-star mentions is that he's been scoring a lot on bad teams...in a weak conference


LaVine could easily put similar number with less responsibility. Probably better more efficient numbers. If we magically added Giannis or Davis he would still average 24+.

possibly. particularly if he was paired with a teammate or two on his general level as a player. but if he was playing with a true superstar...less likely

larry hughes put up 22 a game playing with two other 20+ scorers: arenas and jamison. then he signed a big money contract to be second option to a young lebron and shrank to a role player, averaging 16 a game. efficiency declined as well

then there's kyrie irving, whose scoring maintained and efficiency went up significantly when lebron returned to cleveland

so i guess it comes down to whether zach lavine is more larry hughes or kyrie irving


He averaged 19ppg on good efficiency as the 3rd option behind Towns(a star) and Wiggins(a fraud). I really don't think he would be worse now.
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Re: Article: Does Coby have All Star potential? 

Post#58 » by ATRAIN53 » Sun Jul 12, 2020 4:34 pm

Read on Twitter


:lift:

:love: :love: :love:

This kid wants to be great.

Thank you basketball gods.

Please don't mess this up BULLS
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Re: Article: Does Coby have All Star potential? 

Post#59 » by sco » Sun Jul 12, 2020 4:38 pm

ATRAIN53 wrote:
Read on Twitter


:lift:

:love: :love: :love:

This kid wants to be great.

Thank you basketball gods.

Please don't mess this up BULLS

Hope he doesn't become too big to sustain his speed and Rose-up his knees, or get to big armed and Lauri-up his shot!
:clap:
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Re: Article: Does Coby have All Star potential? 

Post#60 » by kodo » Sun Jul 12, 2020 7:27 pm

I'm not sure how much those muscles actually help a combo guard's game, but I think it points to a serious work ethic.

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