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KC: Boylen Believes He's Forming Strong Relationship With New Regime

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Re: KC: Boylen Believes He's Forming Strong Relationship With New Regime 

Post#121 » by JimmyButler21 » Tue Jul 21, 2020 10:51 pm

Boylen is back, KC is starting to plant the seeds for why it's not bad and we know KC has always been in bed with ownership:
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Re: KC: Boylen Believes He's Forming Strong Relationship With New Regime 

Post#122 » by nitetrain8603 » Tue Jul 21, 2020 11:15 pm

JimmyButler21 wrote:Boylen is back, KC is starting to plant the seeds for why it's not bad and we know KC has always been in bed with ownership:
Read on Twitter


That's how I'm reading this as well. I don't forsee the change happening and I do think it's financially related.
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Re: KC: Boylen Believes He's F koiorming Strong Relationship With New Regime 

Post#123 » by Brothaman33 » Tue Jul 21, 2020 11:36 pm

While I know I should be level headed, and reasonable and trust AK's long play...

I can't. This is so Bulls. Even after we overhaul the front office...we're still doing Bulls things.
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Re: KC: Boylen Believes He's Forming Strong Relationship With New Regime 

Post#124 » by Jeffster81 » Tue Jul 21, 2020 11:58 pm

Pretty much every player of note has no respect for Boylen, but sure let's bring back the coach nobody wants. Can't wait until I read on wiretap that Zach Lavine wants out. Keeping Boylen pretty much means the Bulls will be sitting out on free agency.

I rather watch the Windy City Bulls over watching Boylen led Bulls.
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Re: KC: Boylen Believes He's Forming Strong Relationship With New Regime 

Post#125 » by Showtime23 » Wed Jul 22, 2020 12:42 am

Boylen is your hc next yr. Just admit it and book it.
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Re: KC: Boylen Believes He's Forming Strong Relationship With New Regime 

Post#126 » by weneeda2guard » Wed Jul 22, 2020 1:11 am

I was rocking with the notion of boylen being here to deal with the bubble. But all this "money or lack thereof" being some reason why we can't move on from the coaching staff is not believable considering we cleared out our front office admist the pandemic and that I'm sure cost money as far as severance pay etc to former executives plus people who have been replaced in the training staff. Jerry was not blindsided by a loss every owner knew once the league was shutting down a loss was coming.

Another thing I'm not buying is this idea that we have to wait until 2021 to make serious roster changes using cap space. Sorry I don't think that's a realistic plan and keeping boylen around who could potentially make us look even worst next season is a sure way of making sure no star will join the bulls in 2021. The way to entice a star is some form of winning. A star is not joining a 20 something win team. And imo there are deals out there that could be place holding deals that could reward us with some improvements to persuade stars to join the bulls. But "were falling back til 2021" is garpax planning all over again.
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Re: KC: Boylen Believes He's Forming Strong Relationship With New Regime 

Post#127 » by weneeda2guard » Wed Jul 22, 2020 1:16 am

and here's another simple solution

If your concerned with the other coaches

How about firing boylen considering the players clearly not feeling him and promoting a assistant to hold the interim position for next season until a viable candidate becomes available?
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Re: KC: Boylen Believes He's F koiorming Strong Relationship With New Regime 

Post#128 » by Repeat 3-peat » Wed Jul 22, 2020 1:31 am

Brothaman33 wrote:While I know I should be level headed, and reasonable and trust AK's long play...

I can't. This is so Bulls. Even after we overhaul the front office...we're still doing Bulls things.


It was long overdue for a new front office but true change starts up top, which is ownership.
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Re: KC: Boylen Believes He's Forming Strong Relationship With New Regime 

Post#129 » by AshyLarrysDiaper » Wed Jul 22, 2020 2:41 am

dougthonus wrote:
Axl Rose wrote:A literal rookie mistake saying that publicly but if he feels that way then i have to imagine a majority of the team feels that way or worse. What on earth does Jerry/Pax see in this guy? a kiss ass? cheap labor?


If the majority of the roster feels this way then its criminal to keep him. I think people are generally overly confident in their opinion in how much the players dislike him as a group though.


So we know LaVine doesn't like him. We've heard Lauri's unhappy with how he's been coached. Can't remember where I read Wendell isn't a Boylen fan. Gafford is inconsequential, but throw him in the hate club too. I dunno. I think a good number of the players that matter would prefer a change. We probably don't know the degree to which they dislike him, but there's little doubt in my mind he'd be gone if there weren't mitigating factors (Reinsdorf loyalty streak, $$).
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Re: KC: Boylen Believes He's Forming Strong Relationship With New Regime 

Post#130 » by Jcool0 » Wed Jul 22, 2020 2:43 am

I've watched some pretty lousy Bulls basketball. But always was able to find some kind of positive. But if Boylen is back i think i will just skip out on this season. Just no reason to watch.
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Re: KC: Boylen Believes He's Forming Strong Relationship With New Regime 

Post#131 » by MikeDC » Wed Jul 22, 2020 3:22 am

AshyLarrysDiaper wrote:
dougthonus wrote:
Axl Rose wrote:A literal rookie mistake saying that publicly but if he feels that way then i have to imagine a majority of the team feels that way or worse. What on earth does Jerry/Pax see in this guy? a kiss ass? cheap labor?


If the majority of the roster feels this way then its criminal to keep him. I think people are generally overly confident in their opinion in how much the players dislike him as a group though.


So we know LaVine doesn't like him. We've heard Lauri's unhappy with how he's been coached. Can't remember where I read Wendell isn't a Boylen fan. Gafford is inconsequential, but throw him in the hate club too. I dunno. I think a good number of the players that matter would prefer a change. We probably don't know the degree to which they dislike him, but there's little doubt in my mind he'd be gone if there weren't mitigating factors (Reinsdorf loyalty streak, $$).


Valentine threw some shade at him a while back, and Young basically did the "respected veteran" method of complaining by having his agent try like hell to get him out of Chicago and voice his displeasure at "role" to the media.

OPJ looked like he was taking the season off even before he got hurt. He couldn't have been more nonchalant. And he showed up looking approximately like Jabari Parker looked last year.

So... basically all the meaningful players on the team except Coby. Who I won't speculate about, but I think is smart enough to know that there's no upside for him to go out and say anything like that. The fact that so many guys have said something is pretty telling. I can't remember any team ever having so many players doing that.
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Re: KC: Boylen Believes He's Forming Strong Relationship With New Regime 

Post#132 » by robert76 » Wed Jul 22, 2020 3:41 am

Jeffster81 wrote:Pretty much every player of note has no respect for Boylen, but sure let's bring back the coach nobody wants. Can't wait until I read on wiretap that Zach Lavine wants out. Keeping Boylen pretty much means the Bulls will be sitting out on free agency.

I rather watch the Windy City Bulls over watching Boylen led Bulls.


I'm betting on Lauri wanting out before Zach.
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Re: KC: Boylen Believes He's Forming Strong Relationship With New Regime 

Post#133 » by Bulldog23 » Wed Jul 22, 2020 12:30 pm

For me it is real simple...show me you can win consistently. Doesn’t matter if Boyle’s is there or not.
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Re: KC: Boylen Believes He's Forming Strong Relationship With New Regime 

Post#134 » by sco » Wed Jul 22, 2020 12:46 pm

I think it's a matter of PR. Can fans get excited about next year if Boylen is still there? It's akin to saying, "Don't watch us this season, we don't think we can win."
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Re: KC: Boylen Believes He's Forming Strong Relationship With New Regime 

Post#135 » by Michael Jackson » Wed Jul 22, 2020 2:08 pm

sco wrote:I think it's a matter of PR. Can fans get excited about next year if Boylen is still there? It's akin to saying, "Don't watch us this season, we don't think we can win."



That is it I a nutshell. I will wait and see because this all seems like clickbait so far needing to write something where there is nothing to write, but it would be baffling to keep Boylen after the major PR makeover. He doesn’t earn enough for it to be financial, he is a dollar tree throw away price wise. There is no logical reason to keep him, absolutely none. The cheap thing doesn’t fly because Jerry has eaten much much bigger money on other things. Even if Jerry’s losses are at the lowest of the his estimated 9 figures this would still only be 1% of that loss and 1% is absolutely inconsequential no matter who you are, considering the ROI you would get in fan spending by ditching him.
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Re: KC: Boylen Believes He's Forming Strong Relationship With New Regime 

Post#136 » by BigUps » Wed Jul 22, 2020 2:22 pm

I know there's smoke and where there is smoke there is typically a fire, but I just can't see how they keep Boylen. I feel like this is a story created because of the lull in action. There's no reason to fire Boylen at this moment, but once the season is actually over there will be.

I can't see him being around next year as the head coach. The damage he's done is evident. His presence will do nothing but remind people of the GarPax regime and I have to assume AK and team have someone in their minds as the future coach, but just aren't going to announce it until after seasons end.

With that said, I do appreciate that AK is giving Boylen a chance. To me, thats good leadership. Don't come in and assume everything is broken before assessing the situation. I have respect for that.
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Re: KC: Boylen Believes He's Forming Strong Relationship With New Regime 

Post#137 » by dougthonus » Wed Jul 22, 2020 2:48 pm

AshyLarrysDiaper wrote:So we know LaVine doesn't like him. We've heard Lauri's unhappy with how he's been coached. Can't remember where I read Wendell isn't a Boylen fan. Gafford is inconsequential, but throw him in the hate club too. I dunno. I think a good number of the players that matter would prefer a change. We probably don't know the degree to which they dislike him, but there's little doubt in my mind he'd be gone if there weren't mitigating factors (Reinsdorf loyalty streak, $$).


I think the degree there is the key thing. People have also tended to take singular comments or events and then extrapolate that out to "this guy hates Boylen". This all could be true. There certainly aren't many comments talking about how great he is. If it is true that all the players really feel very strongly negative about him, then again, it's criminal to keep him there. There's no way any leader can be successful if none of the people leading him have confidence in him.

The other thing I posted before. Boylen has the same or less money and time on the books than literally every single coach the Bulls have previously fired.
Skiles ~6M 1.5 years
VDN ~3M 1 year
Thibs ~8M 2 years
Hoiberg ~8M 1.5 years
boylen ~1.6M 1 year

A long history of literally every other coach the Bulls have ever had under the current regime would suggest that money shouldn't be a mitigating factor. You're literally talking about the cost of a vet min salary here.

Maybe COVID impacts that some, but feels like a stretch to me to say this is about money. Anything is possible, but teams almost always fire a coach with one year left because they don't want lame ducks coaching.
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Re: KC: Boylen Believes He's Forming Strong Relationship With New Regime 

Post#138 » by othawhitemeat » Wed Jul 22, 2020 3:04 pm

For me, the only reason to keep him is in tanking for a better lottery slot in 2021. Since 2021 is supposed to be better in terms of talent in the draft, that could be my only thoughts in a shortened and crappy season. However, he is such a toxic person that throws players under the bus, there has to be something better. I mean we have all heard weird things with regards to players and Boylen. Players that at some point threw some kind of shade from current roster.

1) Lavine
2) Valentine
3) Carter Jr.
4) Thad
5) Lauri
6) Daniel

If 3 of your top 4 building blocks and realistically 4 of your top 6 are throwing shade, either the players need to get tougher, or the coaching/leadership needs to get better. Now I do think some of our players need to toughen up, but a lot of this is really coaching. He has thrown players under the bus consistently, has made some really baffling timeouts, let another coach call a timeout to save a player that was running around hobbled, ticked off opposing teams to call timeouts, done a punchcard method, etc... This does not involve his inability to play to his player's strengths, inability to make adjustments, substitution patterns, and even seems behind the scenes that his assistant coach in Fleming quit drawing plays.

I really do think he is that bad of a coach and only got this position by throwing Hoiberg under the bus while also playing kiss up to the previous FO and ownership. I mean in general, how many sports organizations would hire a coach that is throwing their supervisor under the bus behind the scenes and only head coaching job was below average with outbursts at a college that does above average in basketball. He literally was .500 ball and was shown to having outbursts publicly throwing his college players under the bus (multiple times). How are the pros going to respect you if you do this?

He is the worst coach we have had in a while and that is saying something. They key here for future bulls decisions is not to hire a Boylen or Boylan.
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Re: KC: Boylen Believes He's Forming Strong Relationship With New Regime 

Post#139 » by MikeDC » Wed Jul 22, 2020 3:06 pm

BigUps wrote:I know there's smoke and where there is smoke there is typically a fire, but I just can't see how they keep Boylen. I feel like this is a story created because of the lull in action. There's no reason to fire Boylen at this moment, but once the season is actually over there will be.

I can't see him being around next year as the head coach. The damage he's done is evident. His presence will do nothing but remind people of the GarPax regime and I have to assume AK and team have someone in their minds as the future coach, but just aren't going to announce it until after seasons end.

With that said, I do appreciate that AK is giving Boylen a chance. To me, thats good leadership. Don't come in and assume everything is broken before assessing the situation. I have respect for that.


I'm not trying to pick on you specifically, but this kind of opinion is what's largely responsible for the decline of Western Civilization.

As a society and a culture, we've gotten to the point where we often unconsciously and instinctively want to go away from the overwhelming majority of the evidence and cling to the possibility of an exception.

This kind of stuff is subtle, but as someone with an academic background, I know this is present even in things like basic research. Instead of looking at what's true 99% of the time, we twist and turn the data to find the 1% of exceptions and then, ridiculously, spend 99% of our time and energy on this 1%. Like, to give an example, the whole stupid thing about wearing masks with COVID. Nobody really bothered studying whether wearing masks was effective, because it was so obvious. So when we suddenly needed to wear masks, there really wasn't a lot of research to draw on, and what was there was kind of goofy stuff about how in some obscure unlikely scenario, wearing a mask could be counterproductive.

And thus... the situation has evolved to the utter societal stupidity we see around us.

The point is, we are too often too clever by half. Too afraid to be right. Too willing to put our trust in the 1 doctor who disagrees instead of the 99 who agree.

This is present in every level of society, and it's even present in how we think about goofy things like Sports. And Boylen.

Have the courage of your convictions. It's not good leadership to waste time and energy considering the (in this case much less than) 1% chance when 99% of the evidence says the guy is a terrible coach.

All those places around the world that still take life seriously and have their **** together? Germany China, Korea, etc? They don't think this way. The understand that, sure, there are exceptions to rules, and you should be aware of that possibility, but usually the rule is the rule and not the exception. They have the confidence and the common sense to act.

We, as a society, are seriously lacking in that.
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Re: KC: Boylen Believes He's Forming Strong Relationship With New Regime 

Post#140 » by AshyLarrysDiaper » Wed Jul 22, 2020 3:25 pm

dougthonus wrote:
AshyLarrysDiaper wrote:So we know LaVine doesn't like him. We've heard Lauri's unhappy with how he's been coached. Can't remember where I read Wendell isn't a Boylen fan. Gafford is inconsequential, but throw him in the hate club too. I dunno. I think a good number of the players that matter would prefer a change. We probably don't know the degree to which they dislike him, but there's little doubt in my mind he'd be gone if there weren't mitigating factors (Reinsdorf loyalty streak, $$).


I think the degree there is the key thing. People have also tended to take singular comments or events and then extrapolate that out to "this guy hates Boylen". This all could be true. There certainly aren't many comments talking about how great he is. If it is true that all the players really feel very strongly negative about him, then again, it's criminal to keep him there. There's no way any leader can be successful if none of the people leading him have confidence in him.

The other thing I posted before. Boylen has the same or less money and time on the books than literally every single coach the Bulls have previously fired.
Skiles ~6M 1.5 years
VDN ~3M 1 year
Thibs ~8M 2 years
Hoiberg ~8M 1.5 years
boylen ~1.6M 1 year

A long history of literally every other coach the Bulls have ever had under the current regime would suggest that money shouldn't be a mitigating factor. You're literally talking about the cost of a vet min salary here.

Maybe COVID impacts that some, but feels like a stretch to me to say this is about money. Anything is possible, but teams almost always fire a coach with one year left because they don't want lame ducks coaching.



When I say money is an issue, I don't mean the cost of eating Boylen's cheap salary. I mean the cost of bringing in a high-profile coach (~4-5M) in a season with uncertain revenues.
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