Image ImageImage Image

KC: Boylen Believes He's Forming Strong Relationship With New Regime

Moderators: HomoSapien, kulaz3000, fleet, RedBulls23, Ice Man, AshyLarrysDiaper, Tommy Udo 6 , GimmeDat, dougthonus, Payt10, DASMACKDOWN

User avatar
Michael Jackson
RealGM
Posts: 15,051
And1: 1,774
Joined: Jun 15, 2001

Re: KC: Boylen Believes He's Forming Strong Relationship With New Regime 

Post#181 » by Michael Jackson » Wed Jul 29, 2020 9:28 pm

kodo wrote:
MikeDC wrote:At this point, these guys are all basically squandering time. They could be working, could be building and moving forward, but they’re screwing around with guys who shouldn’t even be here.


Do we have a Boylen replacement with any kind of proven track record? Because Udoka and Griffin, the guys most likely to replace Boylen, don't have any better resumes than Boylen did when we hired him. Boylen's was actually better since he actually led the Spurs defense to a title.

I'm not feeling the sense of urgency because there is no logical reason to believe Boylen's replacement will be any better than Boylen or Hoiberg or VDN or any of the other Bulls gambles on untested first time HC's. It's not just a Chicago thing either, Dave Fizdale had an excellent reputation around the league as associate Head Coach of the Miami Heat. He was considered as sure fire a quality HC candidate as you can get and had direct support from Lebron. He ended up being a disaster.

We're just going to be gambling again with the HC position, and even if it's a great potential new HC hire, he'll go through rookie hell. Even Pops and Brad Stevens had horrible first seasons.

Things aren't going to be turning around soon in Chicago even if AK is a genius.



Very true it is a long road. Boylen doesn’t seem to be one of those guys though that is going to successfully get the arrow pointing up (which skiles and Collins are) even though he shares some traits with those A-B coaches. VDN actually wasn’t as terrible as he is made out to be. Regardless of that side point there is no major urgency to make a move right now. There may be a really good reason that has nothing to do with keeping Boylen on as coach as to why they haven’t moved on. I don’t realistically see Jimbo hanging around, he was truly ever only a stop gap. There may be a candidate that hasn’t been mentioned that is in the bubble right now and you can’t talk about. It makes no difference if the Bulls are sitting on their hands unless it was Thibodeau they wanted which we know is an impossibility the way things ended... so might as well wait and see.
User avatar
MikeDC
Pro Prospect
Posts: 831
And1: 195
Joined: Jan 23, 2002
Location: DC Area

Re: KC: Boylen Believes He's Forming Strong Relationship With New Regime 

Post#182 » by MikeDC » Fri Jul 31, 2020 12:53 am

The urgency is that time is valuable. If you want to do things right, you want your new coach to have plenty of time to give input on who his players are going to be. Both out of the current guys on the roster and who we’re looking at in the draft.

The Bulls should be devoting all the time they can to the draft, because, frankly, even if they do get to play games,those games won’t matter much. Likewise, if we have an interim coach, then so what? Those games don’t matter much. The best case scenario would be using it as a testbed for the new coach, not wasting it on a lame duck.

You don’t improve without a sense of urgency. If you’re content to waste time, it will pass you by.
User avatar
Michael Jackson
RealGM
Posts: 15,051
And1: 1,774
Joined: Jun 15, 2001

Re: KC: Boylen Believes He's Forming Strong Relationship With New Regime 

Post#183 » by Michael Jackson » Fri Jul 31, 2020 1:30 am

MikeDC wrote:The urgency is that time is valuable. If you want to do things right, you want your new coach to have plenty of time to give input on who his players are going to be. Both out of the current guys on the roster and who we’re looking at in the draft.

The Bulls should be devoting all the time they can to the draft, because, frankly, even if they do get to play games,those games won’t matter much. Likewise, if we have an interim coach, then so what? Those games don’t matter much. The best case scenario would be using it as a testbed for the new coach, not wasting it on a lame duck.

You don’t improve without a sense of urgency. If you’re content to waste time, it will pass you by.



To an extent, they may want to chose the coach to see who fits the roster after the draft. We are not getting a blue chip coach. Making that coaching choice may be secondary to what they do with this years draft. AK might be looking to make a major move first and see who fits best with that. If AK is waiting to maybe try a blockbuster trade and get better quicker or if he goes full steam ahead with drafting, might be a deciding factor. He may not want the coaches input immediately until he assembles what he wants player personnel wise first. No idea but just speculating.
User avatar
Jcool0
General Manager
Posts: 8,578
And1: 5,064
Joined: Jul 12, 2014
Location: Illinois
         

Re: KC: Boylen Believes He's Forming Strong Relationship With New Regime 

Post#184 » by Jcool0 » Fri Jul 31, 2020 2:19 am

Michael Jackson wrote:
MikeDC wrote:The urgency is that time is valuable. If you want to do things right, you want your new coach to have plenty of time to give input on who his players are going to be. Both out of the current guys on the roster and who we’re looking at in the draft.

The Bulls should be devoting all the time they can to the draft, because, frankly, even if they do get to play games,those games won’t matter much. Likewise, if we have an interim coach, then so what? Those games don’t matter much. The best case scenario would be using it as a testbed for the new coach, not wasting it on a lame duck.

You don’t improve without a sense of urgency. If you’re content to waste time, it will pass you by.



To an extent, they may want to chose the coach to see who fits the roster after the draft. We are not getting a blue chip coach. Making that coaching choice may be secondary to what they do with this years draft. AK might be looking to make a major move first and see who fits best with that. If AK is waiting to maybe try a blockbuster trade and get better quicker or if he goes full steam ahead with drafting, might be a deciding factor. He may not want the coaches input immediately until he assembles what he wants player personnel wise first. No idea but just speculating.


Blockbuster trade? Bulls don't have any assets to do that. Would Zach and #1 overall pick do it for lets say for Ben Simmons? Probably not. Realistically the only chance Bulls have is if AD is like well i want to play in Chicago.
User avatar
MikeDC
Pro Prospect
Posts: 831
And1: 195
Joined: Jan 23, 2002
Location: DC Area

Re: KC: Boylen Believes He's Forming Strong Relationship With New Regime 

Post#185 » by MikeDC » Fri Jul 31, 2020 2:23 am

The speculated rationales are kind of worse than the initial issue. It’s like saying “maybe Joe skipped work today because he was out robbing a bank”. :D

I mean, it’s not really speculative at this point, is it? It’s pretty clear that PaxDorf pushed for Boylen to stay, and instead of striking while the iron was hot and they could have flat out gotten what they wanted, AKME let institutional inertia get ahold of the process.

That’s unfortunate and unhelpful, as evidenced by the fact that we’re trying to explain it in terms of hoping it’s just some other form of dysfunction.
Chi town
RealGM
Posts: 17,301
And1: 3,621
Joined: Aug 10, 2004

Re: KC: Boylen Believes He's Forming Strong Relationship With New Regime 

Post#186 » by Chi town » Fri Jul 31, 2020 3:24 am

MikeDC wrote:The speculated rationales are kind of worse than the initial issue. It’s like saying “maybe Joe skipped work today because he was out robbing a bank”. :D

I mean, it’s not really speculative at this point, is it? It’s pretty clear that PaxDorf pushed for Boylen to stay, and instead of striking while the iron was hot and they could have flat out gotten what they wanted, AKME let institutional inertia get ahold of the process.

That’s unfortunate and unhelpful, as evidenced by the fact that we’re trying to explain it in terms of hoping it’s just some other form of dysfunction.


Or their top candidates are Udoka and Griffin and they are waiting to get who they really want.
User avatar
Michael Jackson
RealGM
Posts: 15,051
And1: 1,774
Joined: Jun 15, 2001

Re: KC: Boylen Believes He's Forming Strong Relationship With New Regime 

Post#187 » by Michael Jackson » Fri Jul 31, 2020 12:33 pm

Jcool0 wrote:
Michael Jackson wrote:
MikeDC wrote:The urgency is that time is valuable. If you want to do things right, you want your new coach to have plenty of time to give input on who his players are going to be. Both out of the current guys on the roster and who we’re looking at in the draft.

The Bulls should be devoting all the time they can to the draft, because, frankly, even if they do get to play games,those games won’t matter much. Likewise, if we have an interim coach, then so what? Those games don’t matter much. The best case scenario would be using it as a testbed for the new coach, not wasting it on a lame duck.

You don’t improve without a sense of urgency. If you’re content to waste time, it will pass you by.



To an extent, they may want to chose the coach to see who fits the roster after the draft. We are not getting a blue chip coach. Making that coaching choice may be secondary to what they do with this years draft. AK might be looking to make a major move first and see who fits best with that. If AK is waiting to maybe try a blockbuster trade and get better quicker or if he goes full steam ahead with drafting, might be a deciding factor. He may not want the coaches input immediately until he assembles what he wants player personnel wise first. No idea but just speculating.


Blockbuster trade? Bulls don't have any assets to do that. Would Zach and #1 overall pick do it for lets say for Ben Simmons? Probably not. Realistically the only chance Bulls have is if AD is like well i want to play in Chicago.


Which isn’t going to happen with AD.

There is nothing that looks attainable except maybe Simmons. Beal will be available again after the season is over. There are things available out there just what are you willing to pay. Is AK more aggressive than Pax? Don’t know yet. We really don’t know what conversations he has had and what his plans really are. We truly don’t have have enough history to even speculate about AK’s MO accurately.
User avatar
MikeDC
Pro Prospect
Posts: 831
And1: 195
Joined: Jan 23, 2002
Location: DC Area

Re: KC: Boylen Believes He's Forming Strong Relationship With New Regime 

Post#188 » by MikeDC » Fri Jul 31, 2020 1:42 pm

Chi town wrote:
MikeDC wrote:The speculated rationales are kind of worse than the initial issue. It’s like saying “maybe Joe skipped work today because he was out robbing a bank”. :D

I mean, it’s not really speculative at this point, is it? It’s pretty clear that PaxDorf pushed for Boylen to stay, and instead of striking while the iron was hot and they could have flat out gotten what they wanted, AKME let institutional inertia get ahold of the process.

That’s unfortunate and unhelpful, as evidenced by the fact that we’re trying to explain it in terms of hoping it’s just some other form of dysfunction.


Or their top candidates are Udoka and Griffin and they are waiting to get who they really want.


They could go out and get those guys if they wanted them. Idols has already interviewed for other HC jobs
Chi town
RealGM
Posts: 17,301
And1: 3,621
Joined: Aug 10, 2004

Re: KC: Boylen Believes He's Forming Strong Relationship With New Regime 

Post#189 » by Chi town » Fri Jul 31, 2020 1:55 pm

MikeDC wrote:
Chi town wrote:
MikeDC wrote:The speculated rationales are kind of worse than the initial issue. It’s like saying “maybe Joe skipped work today because he was out robbing a bank”. :D

I mean, it’s not really speculative at this point, is it? It’s pretty clear that PaxDorf pushed for Boylen to stay, and instead of striking while the iron was hot and they could have flat out gotten what they wanted, AKME let institutional inertia get ahold of the process.

That’s unfortunate and unhelpful, as evidenced by the fact that we’re trying to explain it in terms of hoping it’s just some other form of dysfunction.


Or their top candidates are Udoka and Griffin and they are waiting to get who they really want.


They could go out and get those guys if they wanted them. Idols has already interviewed for other HC jobs


Idols?

I agree with the missed time btw. I just think getting their guy is more important than a couple months extra of Boylen.
User avatar
MikeDC
Pro Prospect
Posts: 831
And1: 195
Joined: Jan 23, 2002
Location: DC Area

Re: KC: Boylen Believes He's Forming Strong Relationship With New Regime 

Post#190 » by MikeDC » Fri Jul 31, 2020 3:30 pm

Oops, Ime Udoka is not spell check friendly.

It’s a double whammy, really. The missed time means less time the new guy will have to work as well as more time everyone else has to spend with Boylen.

There’s also the fact that, presumably, if Boylen gets fired after the loser bracket, the process of interviewing new coaches is going to take more time out of preparing for the draft.
HearshotKDS
Pro Prospect
Posts: 803
And1: 341
Joined: Apr 17, 2010
 

Re: KC: Boylen Believes He's Forming Strong Relationship With New Regime 

Post#191 » by HearshotKDS » Fri Jul 31, 2020 5:02 pm

StunnerKO wrote:
Read on Twitter
?s=21


Hmmm. On the one hand, I want Jim Boylen gone. On the other hand, there seems to be only 2-3 players on the team who look to be in the Bulls mid to long term plans. ESH.
Jeffster81
Assistant Coach
Posts: 3,818
And1: 948
Joined: May 24, 2007
Location: Bazinga
       

Re: KC: Boylen Believes He's Forming Strong Relationship With New Regime 

Post#192 » by Jeffster81 » Fri Jul 31, 2020 6:13 pm

We want him gone but OTOH AKME have not endorse him as HC either. I think Boylen is misreading the situation. I think he believes that since he has not be fired he must be forging a "strong relationship" with the FO but I think we all agree that is probably NOT the case. I think we can agree, the guy AKME wants as HC is not available at the moment. As soon as their guy is available, Boylen will be gone.
Goodbye....Someday.
sco
RealGM
Posts: 14,887
And1: 3,801
Joined: Sep 22, 2003
Location: Virtually Everywhere!

Re: KC: Boylen Believes He's Forming Strong Relationship With New Regime 

Post#193 » by sco » Fri Jul 31, 2020 7:55 pm

Jeffster81 wrote:We want him gone but OTOH AKME have not endorse him as HC either. I think Boylen is misreading the situation. I think he believes that since he has not be fired he must be forging a "strong relationship" with the FO but I think we all agree that is probably NOT the case. I think we can agree, the guy AKME wants as HC is not available at the moment. As soon as their guy is available, Boylen will be gone.

I wonder if this was a bit of a trial balloon to gauge player reaction.
:clap:
User avatar
Michael Jackson
RealGM
Posts: 15,051
And1: 1,774
Joined: Jun 15, 2001

Re: KC: Boylen Believes He's Forming Strong Relationship With New Regime 

Post#194 » by Michael Jackson » Fri Jul 31, 2020 8:28 pm

sco wrote:
Jeffster81 wrote:We want him gone but OTOH AKME have not endorse him as HC either. I think Boylen is misreading the situation. I think he believes that since he has not be fired he must be forging a "strong relationship" with the FO but I think we all agree that is probably NOT the case. I think we can agree, the guy AKME wants as HC is not available at the moment. As soon as their guy is available, Boylen will be gone.

I wonder if this was a bit of a trial balloon to gauge player reaction.



Maybe but my gut says they don’t want Boylen even if the players did. There are other factors. We have a guy in our company we will let go but the timing is of no urgency and we haven’t found the right replacement. So we stand pat for now while taking in consideration other options. Mind you this person thinks they are going to become a partner, which will not happen. It just feels like Boylens situation IRL.
User avatar
DASMACKDOWN
Forum Mod - Bulls
Forum Mod - Bulls
Posts: 24,482
And1: 9,448
Joined: Nov 01, 2001
Location: Cookin' with Derrick Rose

Re: KC: Boylen Believes He's Forming Strong Relationship With New Regime 

Post#195 » by DASMACKDOWN » Fri Jul 31, 2020 8:56 pm

Jeffster81 wrote:We want him gone but OTOH AKME have not endorse him as HC either..


AKME, is that what we are calling the front office now? :D I can dig it.
The quest for #7
transplant
RealGM
Posts: 11,437
And1: 3,046
Joined: Aug 16, 2001
Location: state of perpetual confusion
       

Re: KC: Boylen Believes He's Forming Strong Relationship With New Regime 

Post#196 » by transplant » Fri Jul 31, 2020 9:36 pm

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Over the past two weeks, neither Karisovas nor Eversley have said anything about Boylen. Some media types have said some things, but they kinda have to say/write something. Hell, they need to make a living. Nothing has actually happened and nothing from the decision-makers has been said to make us crazy.
Until the actual truth is more important to you than what you believe, you will never recognize the truth.

- Blatantly stolen from truebluefan
User avatar
Showtime23
Analyst
Posts: 3,304
And1: 985
Joined: Oct 12, 2018

Re: KC: Boylen Believes He's Forming Strong Relationship With New Regime 

Post#197 » by Showtime23 » Fri Jul 31, 2020 9:54 pm

transplant wrote:Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Over the past two weeks, neither Karisovas nor Eversley have said anything about Boylen. Some media types have said some things, but they kinda have to say/write something. Hell, they need to make a living. Nothing has actually happened and nothing from the decision-makers has been said to make us crazy.


they dont care about Boylen as long as they collect their paycheck. I mean who would want to yell at their employer on day 1 only to get fired?
Jeffster81
Assistant Coach
Posts: 3,818
And1: 948
Joined: May 24, 2007
Location: Bazinga
       

Re: KC: Boylen Believes He's Forming Strong Relationship With New Regime 

Post#198 » by Jeffster81 » Sat Aug 1, 2020 6:14 pm

DASMACKDOWN wrote:
Jeffster81 wrote:We want him gone but OTOH AKME have not endorse him as HC either..


AKME, is that what we are calling the front office now? :D I can dig it.


I saw someone else do it and thought it was cool enough to do.
Goodbye....Someday.
Chi town
RealGM
Posts: 17,301
And1: 3,621
Joined: Aug 10, 2004

Re: KC: Boylen Believes He's Forming Strong Relationship With New Regime 

Post#199 » by Chi town » Sat Aug 1, 2020 6:46 pm

Cowley reporting AK and Evs don’t like the offensive scheme at all but did really like the defensive scheme minus the constant blitzing PnR.

Also reporting league scouts sayingUdoka is their guy.
Alcatraz17
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,508
And1: 992
Joined: Jan 24, 2012

Re: KC: Boylen Believes He's Forming Strong Relationship With New Regime 

Post#200 » by Alcatraz17 » Sat Aug 1, 2020 7:13 pm

HearshotKDS wrote:
StunnerKO wrote:
Read on Twitter
?s=21


Hmmm. On the one hand, I want Jim Boylen gone. On the other hand, there seems to be only 2-3 players on the team who look to be in the Bulls mid to long term plans. ESH.



This is all becoming embarrassing, and I dont mean w regard to to Boylen not being let go yet.


Media truly are trolls that just keep feeding the drama, and when you have a situation like we have, it just doesn't help at all. You click the tweet above, and it takes you to an article that links a podcast where KC Johnson doesn't really say anything new about LaVine as far as Boylen and players "not being heard", and then the article links to another article that links a clip of Gafford on Twitch (doesnt even sound like him) where he's saying he doesn't like his coach a lot, and things he needs work on as a person and a coach?

What world are we living in? Would any of you leave your job after a shift and starting complaining to a social media outlet about your boss? This is the type of behavior that is promoted when players see a narrative being formed and things aren't good. It can be a buyout when a player or team isn't playing well.

I can't help but laugh when I think of some players whining as if AK interviewed them and said "Yes, I will fire the coach because you don't like him". And the Gafford thing is just weird...who is he to say anything about his coach?

Maybe Im just getting old, but this is growing tiresome. Let AK and ME do their job.

Return to Chicago Bulls