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dougthonus wrote:

MrFortune3 wrote:He didn't say "That dude is an **** and I **** hate his guts." That's something you don't say. He said he didn't care for him and he had a lot of things to work on as a person because he has seen first hand how he treats players.

He has every right to say it and say it and he also completely right.

He has every right to say either of those things. The first would be way worse than the second to say.

Is it a good idea to say either of those things? No, but again the first would be way worse than the second.

I don't view it as a big deal, but it's definitely not a good thing.

I just don’t see the big deal. Everyone already knows the players don’t like Boylen. He’s rumored to be out and is at best a lame duck coach.
If he had said something really bad about him I’d understand the outcry but if you don’t want to be called out on your ****, don’t treat players badly.

MrFortune3 wrote:

dougthonus wrote:

MrFortune3 wrote:He didn't say "That dude is an **** and I **** hate his guts." That's something you don't say. He said he didn't care for him and he had a lot of things to work on as a person because he has seen first hand how he treats players.

He has every right to say it and say it and he also completely right.

He has every right to say either of those things. The first would be way worse than the second to say.

Is it a good idea to say either of those things? No, but again the first would be way worse than the second.

I don't view it as a big deal, but it's definitely not a good thing.

I just don’t see the big deal. Everyone already knows the players don’t like Boylen. He’s rumored to be out and is at best a lame duck coach.
If he had said something really bad about him I’d understand the outcry but if you don’t want to be called out on your ****, don’t treat players badly.

Yeah wasn’t the most professional statement ever by Gafford but it wasn’t some shockingly bad thing said either. It might have been if he was saying to in an interview to someone like Cowley or an actual journalist or media outlet. This was on twitch being said by a young man. It wasn’t very damning, just not an endorsement of the guy. We are starved for news so it becomes a big deal

MrFortune3 wrote:

dougthonus wrote:

MrFortune3 wrote:He didn't say "That dude is an **** and I **** hate his guts." That's something you don't say. He said he didn't care for him and he had a lot of things to work on as a person because he has seen first hand how he treats players.

He has every right to say it and say it and he also completely right.

He has every right to say either of those things. The first would be way worse than the second to say.

Is it a good idea to say either of those things? No, but again the first would be way worse than the second.

[b]I don't view it as a big deal[b], but it's definitely not a good thing.

I just don’t see the big deal. Everyone already knows the players don’t like Boylen. He’s rumored to be out and is at best a lame duck coach.
If he had said something really bad about him I’d understand the outcry but if you don’t want to be called out on your ****, don’t treat players badly.

I don't see it as a big deal. Hence me literally saying "I don't view it as a big deal" earlier.

I don't think there's a big outcry about it, just that in general, most people think ripping on your colleagues publicly is generally a bad idea. What he said wasn't crazy or anything, if he took out the part about "work on some stuff personally", I don't think anyone would even have thought twice about what he said. If he left it at: "He aight. I ain't going to hate on him." It would have been absolutely clear what he meant without getting onto somewhat thin ice.

That said, I'm also completely aware you're asked something live on a twitch stream and you aren't going through 10 layers of analysis on your word choice and maybe you just say something that wasn't that bad but you might not have said again if you had the time to think it over which is why I also don't see it as a big deal. I hope it is a lesson for him though, you probably don't want to talk shop while on your twitch channel at your point in your career.

It is soo time to move on from Boylen and everyone and their grandmas know this. It's just the Bulls org that thinks that AK has to get to know Boylen in person. Why didn't that happen yet? Do they still get this covid stuff out as an excuse for two grown up people to not get to meet in person? Extremely poor management. Keeping Boylen will alienate our own players, future free agents, probably this is even worse for our reputation than just firing him right away.

And we get hang up on what Gafford says? I can see him (and most of the team) being sick of Boylen still being around. What Gafford said was really not that bad at all. He probably regrets it already. I support that he didn't tell complete lies. Gar would have traded him asap, interesting to see what AK or ME will do.

Whether it should happen or not, I think the Bulls are waiting for the season to end before making an official determination out of the seemingly good feelings that ownership has for Kingpin. Honestly, I have no problem with that, regardless if there are a few games left to play.

If Boylen has even 1 fan or at least 5 fans inside Bulls team i'm totally amazed.

Jiipee84 wrote:If Boylen has even 1 fan or at least 5 fans inside Bulls team i'm totally amazed.

Outside of PaxDorf, I agree. It's been a while since I've seen a coach routinely throw players under the bus like that. This is on top of everything else he is bad at. I'm sure he is a solid 2nd assistant coach with defensive principles, but beyond that, I have not seen anything that should even give him an Associate Head Coaching Position.

From a management perspective, it may be that Boylen “did everything we asked him to do.” I would only say to Bulls management that this may be ok for other middle management jobs, but it shouldn’t be the #1 (or #2 or #3) criteria for evaluating a NBA head coach. Concrete results, not necessarily wins and losses, but they should always matter, development of key assets and fostering team chemistry are all more important than simply being a good management soldier. All professional sports are talent-intensive businesses, and this applies to coaches as well. Anyone who believes that Boylen is a plus talent as a NBA head coach shouldn’t be in a position to make the evaluation.


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The guy was left injured on the floor and Boylen just let him lay there because he didn't want to use a timeout, he did well to say he's alright instead of roast the living **** out of him.

transplant wrote:From a management perspective, it may be that Boylen “did everything we asked him to do.” I would only say to Bulls management that this may be ok for other middle management jobs, but it shouldn’t be the #1 (or #2 or #3) criteria for evaluating a NBA head coach. Concrete results, not necessarily wins and losses, but they should always matter, development of key assets and fostering team chemistry are all more important than simply being a good management soldier. All professional sports are talent-intensive businesses, and this applies to coaches as well. Anyone who believes that Boylen is a plus talent as a NBA head coach shouldn’t be in a position to make the evaluation.


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And in all honesty they paid him more than he was making even being the lowest paid head coach, because he was never going to be a HC otherwise. So yeah did what they asked and he was compensated fairly. Time to put a nail in that coffin.

Whenever a team that sucks complaining and finger pointing happens often. I want players to improve their skillsets.

Looking at you lauri and Wendell.

Showtime23 wrote:

Betta Bulleavit wrote:A couple of takeaways here.

The first (and perhaps least concerning) is that Gafford really shouldn’t be providing such commentary...on Twitch no less. A player in his position should be making it an open and shut case. That is.....keep your eyes and ears open and your mouth shut. I’m not as concerned with that part of it because he will learn better as he matures.

The second thing is the biggest. It’s not that Gafford said what he said, but WHY he felt so comfortable doing it. There are only two rookies on this team. Gafford is one of them. So when a guy like that speaks that freely about his lack of enthusiasm for his coach, you just know that the same belief is circulating throughout the entire locker room. No other way that this happens. And if that is the case, which I believe it is, Boylen is done as far as these guys are concerned. They just don’t have much interest in playing for him. So Gafford’s “disrespect” is simply a byproduct of a much more deeply rooted issue in my opinion.

Do you even know what twitch is? Its a freaking gaming streaming service where your allowed to talk trash.
There are a ton of gamers that make a living off kids doing this cringe thing. Its another industry Gafford might have success.

I’m familiar with Twitch to the extent that my son tells me about it. My point regarding Gafford is the same though. He’s a professional athlete that gets paid handsomely to do what he does for a living. So he will need to be more aware of how his side interests impacts what is obviously his primary career. Again though, he will learn that with experience.

Michael Jackson wrote:

MrFortune3 wrote:

dougthonus wrote:
He has every right to say either of those things. The first would be way worse than the second to say.

Is it a good idea to say either of those things? No, but again the first would be way worse than the second.

I don't view it as a big deal, but it's definitely not a good thing.

I just don’t see the big deal. Everyone already knows the players don’t like Boylen. He’s rumored to be out and is at best a lame duck coach.
If he had said something really bad about him I’d understand the outcry but if you don’t want to be called out on your ****, don’t treat players badly.

Yeah wasn’t the most professional statement ever by Gafford but it wasn’t some shockingly bad thing said either. It might have been if he was saying to in an interview to someone like Cowley or an actual journalist or media outlet. This was on twitch being said by a young man. It wasn’t very damning, just not an endorsement of the guy. We are starved for news so it becomes a big deal

It seems to me that stronger things were said when Thibs and Hoiberg were here so I don't really see the issue. Noah said if they didn't win he and Thibs would hate each other to the media. Jimmy called out Fred for not being a tough enough coach.

dougthonus wrote:

MrFortune3 wrote:

dougthonus wrote:
He has every right to say either of those things. The first would be way worse than the second to say.

Is it a good idea to say either of those things? No, but again the first would be way worse than the second.

[b]I don't view it as a big deal[b], but it's definitely not a good thing.

I just don’t see the big deal. Everyone already knows the players don’t like Boylen. He’s rumored to be out and is at best a lame duck coach.
If he had said something really bad about him I’d understand the outcry but if you don’t want to be called out on your ****, don’t treat players badly.

I don't see it as a big deal. Hence me literally saying "I don't view it as a big deal" earlier.

I don't think there's a big outcry about it, just that in general, most people think ripping on your colleagues publicly is generally a bad idea. What he said wasn't crazy or anything, if he took out the part about "work on some stuff personally", I don't think anyone would even have thought twice about what he said. If he left it at: "He aight. I ain't going to hate on him." It would have been absolutely clear what he meant without getting onto somewhat thin ice.

That said, I'm also completely aware you're asked something live on a twitch stream and you aren't going through 10 layers of analysis on your word choice and maybe you just say something that wasn't that bad but you might not have said again if you had the time to think it over which is why I also don't see it as a big deal. I hope it is a lesson for him though, you probably don't want to talk shop while on your twitch channel at your point in your career.

I agree it's not the best look but given the context and knowing what we know about the players not liking Boylen, I can't bring myself to chastise Gafford for his answer. ****, at least he was honest.

MrFortune3 wrote:It seems to me that stronger things were said when Thibs and Hoiberg were here so I don't really see the issue. Noah said if they didn't win he and Thibs would hate each other to the media. Jimmy called out Fred for not being a tough enough coach.

Noah was telling a story and was joking. Butler was criticized for his statements by many (though supported by others, much like with Gafford here), but at least he was a star level player making that statement.

dougthonus wrote:

MrFortune3 wrote:It seems to me that stronger things were said when Thibs and Hoiberg were here so I don't really see the issue. Noah said if they didn't win he and Thibs would hate each other to the media. Jimmy called out Fred for not being a tough enough coach.

Noah was telling a story and was joking. Butler was criticized for his statements by many (though supported by others, much like with Gafford here), but at least he was a star level player making that statement.

Noah wasn't for real joking though. He was telling the truth and basically saying winning was a great deodorant.

I remember the issue with Jimmy. My point was, what they said was far worse than Gafford.