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Knicks/Nets Looking At Lavine

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Leslie Forman
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Re: Knicks/Nets Looking At Lavine 

Post#81 » by Leslie Forman » Sat Jul 25, 2020 10:31 pm

If you were one of those people on the "trade Jimmy" bandwagon, you should be riding every single "trade Zach" bandwagon you can possibly find.

He's got two years left and isn't even remotely the player Jimmy was. What the hell is this franchise going to do in the next two years?
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Re: Knicks/Nets Looking At Lavine 

Post#82 » by cjbulls » Sat Jul 25, 2020 10:45 pm

sco wrote:
Paradise wrote:
cjbulls wrote:And you wonder why deals never get done.... the offers here are already crazy. Barrett and their own FRP? Levert and Dinwiddie?

Zach doesn't have that value for all the negative reasons sprinkled throughout this thread. And I say this as a Zach fan.

Here is a snippet of what the Knicks board is saying (on top of all the "not interested" comments):

"If Chicago is looking to dump salary, I'll take a pick and send them DSJ."
"I’d kick the tires on Zach and Lauri but not be willing to give up too much at the same time (alternatives are there in FA and neither guy is changing the team’s trajectory enough to get too hype on). But Zach and RJ on the wings can work and Mitch, Lauri, Stretch 4 is a nice big man trio for a rotation."
"Like if the deal is Randle, Knox, and 2 1sts, one of them being the Clippers pick this year, is that a bad deal, from a pure asset standpoint? "
"Randle + Dalas picks + 1 player from Knox/Dennis/Frank would be enough? "

The Nets board didn't even bother to discuss it so far, although I just don't think the Nets have fans.


No one on either side is being realistic about what a trade would look like.

We have but it’s not much to talk about yet. It’s kind of Beal or bust for us IMO. That’s the only trade worth dealing both Dinwiddie and LeVert plus picks for.

I like Lavine but I’m not sure any deal for him makes sense that gives up Dinwiddie, LeVert, Claxton. Three guys with borderline all-star potential on a team with more touches in Chicago isn’t going to sit well in Brooklyn. It probably would turn into a Melo-NYK situation or Billy King situation. The good thing about him is age and the ability to carry possibly more of the load when KD begins to age.

It would be Dinwiddie/2020 1st/2023 1st/Prince/Kurucs/Musa for the most part as our first offer.

There isn't much to like in that offer. Thanks though.


And this is my point. Zach's value is very difficult to make a trade happen. The rest of the league largely sees him one of two ways:

1. Empty stats filler. Talented, but doesn't move the needle on wins.
2. Misplaced on losing teams. Can flourish in the right situation (#3 scorer or whatever).

The first group will not bother with the Bulls. The second is intrigued, but is scared off by his issues and how it relates to the evaluation from the first group. So they do not want to give up big value, be wrong, and get laughed at by the first group (and fired).

The Nets are a good example as shown by the Nets poster. They have one big consolidation move left. So why risk it on Zach? They'll hold out for something more secure.

The Knicks have a lot of young assets, but why would they want to package their best young assets for a guy that hasn't moved the needle on wins?

Unfortunately, Zach's value is limited by the fact the Bulls couldn't put a healthy or winning team around him. Bulls fans need to accept that and hope he and the team blossoms, or trade him for below his potential value and move on.
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Re: Knicks/Nets Looking At Lavine 

Post#83 » by cjbulls » Sat Jul 25, 2020 10:50 pm

Leslie Forman wrote:If you were one of those people on the "trade Jimmy" bandwagon, you should be riding every single "trade Zach" bandwagon you can possibly find.

He's got two years left and isn't even remotely the player Jimmy was. What the hell is this franchise going to do in the next two years?


Have to disagree. These are very different situations.

The Jimmy situation featured a team with no young talent that was going to hit rock bottom if Butler left as a FA (which would have happened if Bulls couldn't bring in FA talent). And Jimmy could fetch a high trade value

This team has essentially too much young talent from a minutes/shots perspective. We can debate how good the young players could be, but there are only be so many developmental minutes to go around. Zach's trade value also remains low
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Re: Knicks/Nets Looking At Lavine 

Post#84 » by League Circles » Sat Jul 25, 2020 11:05 pm

Showtime23 wrote:
League Circles wrote:Lavine is the kind of player that might not become great until he's like 29 years old, when he still has pretty great physical ability but has had many years to improve gradually on decision making and consistency through experience and hopefully good coaching.


What kind of projection is this? Lavine is the type to rely on athleticism and he will have meltdown like Drose once he tears his ACL.
He is not like CP3 where he gets better as he ages into his 30s. In fact, Lavine is the anti Paul.
He is already 25 yrs old, 6yr veteran and AK already knows this is his ceiling. He will not achieve anything greater than his potential which he had already met. I view him as a final missing piece for a championship team like the Lakers, Clippers but not a championship core.

The key benefit to experience is making better decisions and fewer mistakes. Those are Lavine's weaknesses. He's already torn his ACL.
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Re: Knicks/Nets Looking At Lavine 

Post#85 » by Dez » Sat Jul 25, 2020 11:29 pm

Showtime23 wrote:
League Circles wrote:Lavine is the kind of player that might not become great until he's like 29 years old, when he still has pretty great physical ability but has had many years to improve gradually on decision making and consistency through experience and hopefully good coaching.


What kind of projection is this? Lavine is the type to rely on athleticism and he will have meltdown like Drose once he tears his ACL.
He is not like CP3 where he gets better as he ages into his 30s. In fact, Lavine is the anti Paul.
He is already 25 yrs old, 6yr veteran and AK already knows this is his ceiling. He will not achieve anything greater than his potential which he had already met. I view him as a final missing piece for a championship team like the Lakers, Clippers but not a championship core.


You keep saying anti-Lavine crap based on nothing.

LaVine has continuously improved every season and suddenly AK knows his ceiling? Your bias against LaVine is just so wildly out of touch and wrong that it's baffling.
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Re: Knicks/Nets Looking At Lavine 

Post#86 » by Leslie Forman » Sat Jul 25, 2020 11:29 pm

cjbulls wrote:
Leslie Forman wrote:If you were one of those people on the "trade Jimmy" bandwagon, you should be riding every single "trade Zach" bandwagon you can possibly find.

He's got two years left and isn't even remotely the player Jimmy was. What the hell is this franchise going to do in the next two years?


Have to disagree. These are very different situations.

The Jimmy situation featured a team with no young talent that was going to hit rock bottom if Butler left as a FA (which would have happened if Bulls couldn't bring in FA talent). And Jimmy could fetch a high trade value

This team right now is not very far from rock bottom and doesn't have any more time left on Zach's contract than they did with Jimmy back then.

cjbulls wrote:This team has essentially too much young talent from a minutes/shots perspective.

That is…definitely not something I would ever say about this roster.

If you want to keep Zach because he's entertaining and you think winning, say, 30 games a year is worth it over winning, say, 24 games a year, go ahead, I would not argue that viewpoint.

But if you think voluntarily going from being a 40-win team to a 24-win team somehow made more sense, nah. Not gonna agree with that.
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Re: Knicks/Nets Looking At Lavine 

Post#87 » by dice » Sun Jul 26, 2020 12:27 am

Jvaughn wrote:
pipfan wrote:I would think about it, if we moved up with our pick and AK likes Edwards

We could
-get a lottery pick for Lavine, and another asset
-free up cash (for JR), cap space (to swallow bad deals and get more assets)
-get in the top 6 in the next 2 drafts, which both should be loaded
-build around White, Lauri, Edwards, Carter, Gafford, Hutch


So how long do we continue to blow up and rebuild. Because that's a lottery team for the foreseeable future. We're getting dangerously close to being the joke the Sixers were.

know who didn't care that their team was a joke? sixers fans. because they knew it was by design. unlike knicks fans

the bulls have been a joke since the butler trade. in the knicks mold
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Re: Knicks/Nets Looking At Lavine 

Post#88 » by dice » Sun Jul 26, 2020 1:12 am

top 120 vet contracts for this season, ranked by contract value (using 2-year PIPM):

6.09 Giannis Antetokounmpo (7.88 actual PIPM minus 1.79 expected based on 25.8 mil contract)

3.81 Brook Lopez (3.56 actual PIPM minus -0.25 expected based on 12.1 mil contract)
3.27 Eric Bledsoe
2.86 Anthony Davis
2.86 Joel Embiid
2.77 Rudy Gobert
2.59 Robert Covington
2.52 Stephen Curry
2.51 Kawhi Leonard
2.35 Ricky Rubio
2.28 Dwight Powell
2.27 Danny Green
2.24 Nikola Jokić
2.20 Patrick Beverley
2.11 James Harden
2.08 Draymond Green
2.00 Joe Ingles
1.80 LeBron James
1.70 Clint Capela
1.54 Victor Oladipo
1.48 Paul George
1.47 Larry Nance
1.45 Damian Lillard
1.35 Marcus Smart
1.34 Jonas Valančiūnas
1.31 Derrick Favors
1.27 Karl-Anthony Towns
1.26 Nikola Vučević
1.21 Kristaps Porziņģis
1.21 Kelly Olynyk
1.12 Hassan Whiteside
1.11 DeAndre Jordan
0.88 Jrue Holiday
0.88 Spencer Dinwiddie
0.86 Jeremy Lamb
0.82 Patty Mills
0.77 Justise Winslow
0.72 Myles Turner
0.69 Josh Richardson
0.66 Chris Paul
0.65 Danilo Gallinari
0.56 Kyle Lowry
0.55 Khris Middleton
0.53 Will Barton
0.48 Maurice Harkless
0.47 Tomáš Satoranský
0.41 J.J. Redick
0.41 Al Horford
0.36 Jimmy Butler
0.28 Rudy Gay
0.27 Dewayne Dedmon
0.23 Malcolm Brogdon
0.23 Andre Iguodala
0.23 Cory Joseph
0.15 Steven Adams
0.13 Marc Gasol
0.10 Paul Millsap
0.04 Eric Gordon
0.04 Kyrie Irving
-0.10 T.J. Warren
-0.14 Andre Drummond
-0.15 Meyers Leonard
-0.18 Marvin Williams
-0.23 Trevor Ariza
-0.23 Otto Porter
-0.25 Jordan Clarkson
-0.26 Tim Hardaway
-0.37 Michael Kidd-Gilchrist
-0.41 Kemba Walker
-0.41 Ian Mahinmi
-0.46 Reggie Jackson
-0.47 Norman Powell
-0.48 Taj Gibson
-0.49 Marcus Morris
-0.52 Gary Harris
-0.57 Aaron Gordon
-0.57 Gorgui Dieng
-0.57 Julius Randle
-0.68 Mason Plumlee
-0.72 Thaddeus Young
-0.75 Kelly Oubre
-0.83 Dion Waiters
-0.86 Dennis Schröder
-0.89 Evan Fournier
-0.94 Bradley Beal
-1.00 Cody Zeller
-1.05 LaMarcus Aldridge
-1.08 CJ McCollum
-1.11 James Johnson
-1.14 Bojan Bogdanović
-1.15 Terrence Ross
-1.16 Courtney Lee
-1.29 Serge Ibaka
-1.41 Bobby Portis
-1.43 Russell Westbrook
-1.46 Kent Bazemore
-1.56 Goran Dragić
-1.59 Mike Conley
-1.66 Bismack Biyombo
-1.68 Kevin Love
-1.72 Jeff Teague
-1.75 Blake Griffin
-1.80 Tobias Harris
-1.83 Devin Booker
-1.85 Gordon Hayward
-1.91 Zach LaVine (-1.06 actual PIPM minus 0.85 expected based on 19.5 mil contract)
-1.95 Tony Snell
-1.98 Solomon Hill
-2.10 Nicolas Batum
-2.30 Brandon Knight
-2.40 Harrison Barnes
-2.42 Tyler Johnson
-2.43 D'Angelo Russell
-2.58 Tristan Thompson
-2.60 DeMar DeRozan
-2.76 Andrew Wiggins
-2.98 Allen Crabbe
-3.25 Chandler Parsons
-3.39 Terry Rozier
-3.42 Evan Turner
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Re: Knicks/Nets Looking At Lavine 

Post#89 » by Jvaughn » Sun Jul 26, 2020 3:32 am

dougthonus wrote:
Jvaughn wrote:Knicks odds for lottery are barely better than ours, and this isn't really that attractive of a draft for that type of move.


I agree, this isn't a draft I'd want to load up in, but I think you're also thinking a lot more highly of Zach's value around the league than what it is. Think of what prime Kevin Martin would have gotten you in a trade. That's where Zach is. Guy who can score, not defend, and not do much else.


I disagree about Zach's value for multiple reasons. He's shown he can do much more than K-Mart. He has facilitated and played defense when his number has been called. It hasn't been consistent, but he's still young and has room to grow. And in the fact that he's on a great value contract, and you have a positive asset. I definitely don't see any viable trade where we win out in a deal, so I'd give Zach a chance with a real coach and system before you toss him away for chips.
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Re: Knicks/Nets Looking At Lavine 

Post#90 » by wonderboy2 » Sun Jul 26, 2020 3:43 am

dice wrote:top 120 vet contracts for this season, ranked by contract value (using 2-year PIPM):

6.09 Giannis Antetokounmpo (7.88 actual PIPM minus 1.79 expected based on 25.8 mil contract)

3.81 Brook Lopez (3.56 actual PIPM minus -0.25 expected based on 12.1 mil contract)
3.27 Eric Bledsoe
2.86 Anthony Davis
2.86 Joel Embiid
2.77 Rudy Gobert
2.59 Robert Covington
2.52 Stephen Curry
2.51 Kawhi Leonard
2.35 Ricky Rubio
2.28 Dwight Powell
2.27 Danny Green
2.24 Nikola Jokić
2.20 Patrick Beverley
2.11 James Harden
2.08 Draymond Green
2.00 Joe Ingles
1.80 LeBron James
1.70 Clint Capela
1.54 Victor Oladipo
1.48 Paul George
1.47 Larry Nance
1.45 Damian Lillard
1.35 Marcus Smart
1.34 Jonas Valančiūnas
1.31 Derrick Favors
1.27 Karl-Anthony Towns
1.26 Nikola Vučević
1.21 Kristaps Porziņģis
1.21 Kelly Olynyk
1.12 Hassan Whiteside
1.11 DeAndre Jordan
0.88 Jrue Holiday
0.88 Spencer Dinwiddie
0.86 Jeremy Lamb
0.82 Patty Mills
0.77 Justise Winslow
0.72 Myles Turner
0.69 Josh Richardson
0.66 Chris Paul
0.65 Danilo Gallinari
0.56 Kyle Lowry
0.55 Khris Middleton
0.53 Will Barton
0.48 Maurice Harkless
0.47 Tomáš Satoranský
0.41 J.J. Redick
0.41 Al Horford
0.36 Jimmy Butler
0.28 Rudy Gay
0.27 Dewayne Dedmon
0.23 Malcolm Brogdon
0.23 Andre Iguodala
0.23 Cory Joseph
0.15 Steven Adams
0.13 Marc Gasol
0.10 Paul Millsap
0.04 Eric Gordon
0.04 Kyrie Irving
-0.10 T.J. Warren
-0.14 Andre Drummond
-0.15 Meyers Leonard
-0.18 Marvin Williams
-0.23 Trevor Ariza
-0.23 Otto Porter
-0.25 Jordan Clarkson
-0.26 Tim Hardaway
-0.37 Michael Kidd-Gilchrist
-0.41 Kemba Walker
-0.41 Ian Mahinmi
-0.46 Reggie Jackson
-0.47 Norman Powell
-0.48 Taj Gibson
-0.49 Marcus Morris
-0.52 Gary Harris
-0.57 Aaron Gordon
-0.57 Gorgui Dieng
-0.57 Julius Randle
-0.68 Mason Plumlee
-0.72 Thaddeus Young
-0.75 Kelly Oubre
-0.83 Dion Waiters
-0.86 Dennis Schröder
-0.89 Evan Fournier
-0.94 Bradley Beal
-1.00 Cody Zeller
-1.05 LaMarcus Aldridge
-1.08 CJ McCollum
-1.11 James Johnson
-1.14 Bojan Bogdanović
-1.15 Terrence Ross
-1.16 Courtney Lee
-1.29 Serge Ibaka
-1.41 Bobby Portis
-1.43 Russell Westbrook
-1.46 Kent Bazemore
-1.56 Goran Dragić
-1.59 Mike Conley
-1.66 Bismack Biyombo
-1.68 Kevin Love
-1.72 Jeff Teague
-1.75 Blake Griffin
-1.80 Tobias Harris
-1.83 Devin Booker
-1.85 Gordon Hayward
-1.91 Zach LaVine (-1.06 actual PIPM minus 0.85 expected based on 19.5 mil contract)
-1.95 Tony Snell
-1.98 Solomon Hill
-2.10 Nicolas Batum
-2.30 Brandon Knight
-2.40 Harrison Barnes
-2.42 Tyler Johnson
-2.43 D'Angelo Russell
-2.58 Tristan Thompson
-2.60 DeMar DeRozan
-2.76 Andrew Wiggins
-2.98 Allen Crabbe
-3.25 Chandler Parsons
-3.39 Terry Rozier
-3.42 Evan Turner

This has to be the dumbest way to evaluate value I ever seen.
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Re: Knicks/Nets Looking At Lavine 

Post#91 » by WindyCityBorn » Sun Jul 26, 2020 3:57 am

wonderboy2 wrote:
dice wrote:top 120 vet contracts for this season, ranked by contract value (using 2-year PIPM):

6.09 Giannis Antetokounmpo (7.88 actual PIPM minus 1.79 expected based on 25.8 mil contract)

3.81 Brook Lopez (3.56 actual PIPM minus -0.25 expected based on 12.1 mil contract)
3.27 Eric Bledsoe
2.86 Anthony Davis
2.86 Joel Embiid
2.77 Rudy Gobert
2.59 Robert Covington
2.52 Stephen Curry
2.51 Kawhi Leonard
2.35 Ricky Rubio
2.28 Dwight Powell
2.27 Danny Green
2.24 Nikola Jokić
2.20 Patrick Beverley
2.11 James Harden
2.08 Draymond Green
2.00 Joe Ingles
1.80 LeBron James
1.70 Clint Capela
1.54 Victor Oladipo
1.48 Paul George
1.47 Larry Nance
1.45 Damian Lillard
1.35 Marcus Smart
1.34 Jonas Valančiūnas
1.31 Derrick Favors
1.27 Karl-Anthony Towns
1.26 Nikola Vučević
1.21 Kristaps Porziņģis
1.21 Kelly Olynyk
1.12 Hassan Whiteside
1.11 DeAndre Jordan
0.88 Jrue Holiday
0.88 Spencer Dinwiddie
0.86 Jeremy Lamb
0.82 Patty Mills
0.77 Justise Winslow
0.72 Myles Turner
0.69 Josh Richardson
0.66 Chris Paul
0.65 Danilo Gallinari
0.56 Kyle Lowry
0.55 Khris Middleton
0.53 Will Barton
0.48 Maurice Harkless
0.47 Tomáš Satoranský
0.41 J.J. Redick
0.41 Al Horford
0.36 Jimmy Butler
0.28 Rudy Gay
0.27 Dewayne Dedmon
0.23 Malcolm Brogdon
0.23 Andre Iguodala
0.23 Cory Joseph
0.15 Steven Adams
0.13 Marc Gasol
0.10 Paul Millsap
0.04 Eric Gordon
0.04 Kyrie Irving
-0.10 T.J. Warren
-0.14 Andre Drummond
-0.15 Meyers Leonard
-0.18 Marvin Williams
-0.23 Trevor Ariza
-0.23 Otto Porter
-0.25 Jordan Clarkson
-0.26 Tim Hardaway
-0.37 Michael Kidd-Gilchrist
-0.41 Kemba Walker
-0.41 Ian Mahinmi
-0.46 Reggie Jackson
-0.47 Norman Powell
-0.48 Taj Gibson
-0.49 Marcus Morris
-0.52 Gary Harris
-0.57 Aaron Gordon
-0.57 Gorgui Dieng
-0.57 Julius Randle
-0.68 Mason Plumlee
-0.72 Thaddeus Young
-0.75 Kelly Oubre
-0.83 Dion Waiters
-0.86 Dennis Schröder
-0.89 Evan Fournier
-0.94 Bradley Beal
-1.00 Cody Zeller
-1.05 LaMarcus Aldridge
-1.08 CJ McCollum
-1.11 James Johnson
-1.14 Bojan Bogdanović
-1.15 Terrence Ross
-1.16 Courtney Lee
-1.29 Serge Ibaka
-1.41 Bobby Portis
-1.43 Russell Westbrook
-1.46 Kent Bazemore
-1.56 Goran Dragić
-1.59 Mike Conley
-1.66 Bismack Biyombo
-1.68 Kevin Love
-1.72 Jeff Teague
-1.75 Blake Griffin
-1.80 Tobias Harris
-1.83 Devin Booker
-1.85 Gordon Hayward
-1.91 Zach LaVine (-1.06 actual PIPM minus 0.85 expected based on 19.5 mil contract)
-1.95 Tony Snell
-1.98 Solomon Hill
-2.10 Nicolas Batum
-2.30 Brandon Knight
-2.40 Harrison Barnes
-2.42 Tyler Johnson
-2.43 D'Angelo Russell
-2.58 Tristan Thompson
-2.60 DeMar DeRozan
-2.76 Andrew Wiggins
-2.98 Allen Crabbe
-3.25 Chandler Parsons
-3.39 Terry Rozier
-3.42 Evan Turner

This has to be the dumbest way to evaluate value I ever seen.


Did you expect any better? King/queen of worthless stats.
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Re: Knicks/Nets Looking At Lavine 

Post#92 » by dice » Sun Jul 26, 2020 4:00 am

wonderboy2 wrote:
dice wrote:top 120 vet contracts for this season, ranked by contract value (using 2-year PIPM):

6.09 Giannis Antetokounmpo (7.88 actual PIPM minus 1.79 expected based on 25.8 mil contract)

3.81 Brook Lopez (3.56 actual PIPM minus -0.25 expected based on 12.1 mil contract)
3.27 Eric Bledsoe
2.86 Anthony Davis
2.86 Joel Embiid
2.77 Rudy Gobert
2.59 Robert Covington
2.52 Stephen Curry
2.51 Kawhi Leonard
2.35 Ricky Rubio
2.28 Dwight Powell
2.27 Danny Green
2.24 Nikola Jokić
2.20 Patrick Beverley
2.11 James Harden
2.08 Draymond Green
2.00 Joe Ingles
1.80 LeBron James
1.70 Clint Capela
1.54 Victor Oladipo
1.48 Paul George
1.47 Larry Nance
1.45 Damian Lillard
1.35 Marcus Smart
1.34 Jonas Valančiūnas
1.31 Derrick Favors
1.27 Karl-Anthony Towns
1.26 Nikola Vučević
1.21 Kristaps Porziņģis
1.21 Kelly Olynyk
1.12 Hassan Whiteside
1.11 DeAndre Jordan
0.88 Jrue Holiday
0.88 Spencer Dinwiddie
0.86 Jeremy Lamb
0.82 Patty Mills
0.77 Justise Winslow
0.72 Myles Turner
0.69 Josh Richardson
0.66 Chris Paul
0.65 Danilo Gallinari
0.56 Kyle Lowry
0.55 Khris Middleton
0.53 Will Barton
0.48 Maurice Harkless
0.47 Tomáš Satoranský
0.41 J.J. Redick
0.41 Al Horford
0.36 Jimmy Butler
0.28 Rudy Gay
0.27 Dewayne Dedmon
0.23 Malcolm Brogdon
0.23 Andre Iguodala
0.23 Cory Joseph
0.15 Steven Adams
0.13 Marc Gasol
0.10 Paul Millsap
0.04 Eric Gordon
0.04 Kyrie Irving
-0.10 T.J. Warren
-0.14 Andre Drummond
-0.15 Meyers Leonard
-0.18 Marvin Williams
-0.23 Trevor Ariza
-0.23 Otto Porter
-0.25 Jordan Clarkson
-0.26 Tim Hardaway
-0.37 Michael Kidd-Gilchrist
-0.41 Kemba Walker
-0.41 Ian Mahinmi
-0.46 Reggie Jackson
-0.47 Norman Powell
-0.48 Taj Gibson
-0.49 Marcus Morris
-0.52 Gary Harris
-0.57 Aaron Gordon
-0.57 Gorgui Dieng
-0.57 Julius Randle
-0.68 Mason Plumlee
-0.72 Thaddeus Young
-0.75 Kelly Oubre
-0.83 Dion Waiters
-0.86 Dennis Schröder
-0.89 Evan Fournier
-0.94 Bradley Beal
-1.00 Cody Zeller
-1.05 LaMarcus Aldridge
-1.08 CJ McCollum
-1.11 James Johnson
-1.14 Bojan Bogdanović
-1.15 Terrence Ross
-1.16 Courtney Lee
-1.29 Serge Ibaka
-1.41 Bobby Portis
-1.43 Russell Westbrook
-1.46 Kent Bazemore
-1.56 Goran Dragić
-1.59 Mike Conley
-1.66 Bismack Biyombo
-1.68 Kevin Love
-1.72 Jeff Teague
-1.75 Blake Griffin
-1.80 Tobias Harris
-1.83 Devin Booker
-1.85 Gordon Hayward
-1.91 Zach LaVine (-1.06 actual PIPM minus 0.85 expected based on 19.5 mil contract)
-1.95 Tony Snell
-1.98 Solomon Hill
-2.10 Nicolas Batum
-2.30 Brandon Knight
-2.40 Harrison Barnes
-2.42 Tyler Johnson
-2.43 D'Angelo Russell
-2.58 Tristan Thompson
-2.60 DeMar DeRozan
-2.76 Andrew Wiggins
-2.98 Allen Crabbe
-3.25 Chandler Parsons
-3.39 Terry Rozier
-3.42 Evan Turner

This has to be the dumbest way to evaluate value I ever seen.

one of the dumbest comments i've ever read

nah, you're right. comparing a player's on-court impact to his salary is loco

i'm gonna go ahead and guess that you just don't understand a fairly rudimentary concept. so lemme help you out a bit: when a guy is paid 20 million bucks but doesn't perform at that level, his team will suffer for it
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Re: Knicks/Nets Looking At Lavine 

Post#93 » by wonderboy2 » Sun Jul 26, 2020 4:03 am

dice wrote:
wonderboy2 wrote:
dice wrote:top 120 vet contracts for this season, ranked by contract value (using 2-year PIPM):

6.09 Giannis Antetokounmpo (7.88 actual PIPM minus 1.79 expected based on 25.8 mil contract)

3.81 Brook Lopez (3.56 actual PIPM minus -0.25 expected based on 12.1 mil contract)
3.27 Eric Bledsoe
2.86 Anthony Davis
2.86 Joel Embiid
2.77 Rudy Gobert
2.59 Robert Covington
2.52 Stephen Curry
2.51 Kawhi Leonard
2.35 Ricky Rubio
2.28 Dwight Powell
2.27 Danny Green
2.24 Nikola Jokić
2.20 Patrick Beverley
2.11 James Harden
2.08 Draymond Green
2.00 Joe Ingles
1.80 LeBron James
1.70 Clint Capela
1.54 Victor Oladipo
1.48 Paul George
1.47 Larry Nance
1.45 Damian Lillard
1.35 Marcus Smart
1.34 Jonas Valančiūnas
1.31 Derrick Favors
1.27 Karl-Anthony Towns
1.26 Nikola Vučević
1.21 Kristaps Porziņģis
1.21 Kelly Olynyk
1.12 Hassan Whiteside
1.11 DeAndre Jordan
0.88 Jrue Holiday
0.88 Spencer Dinwiddie
0.86 Jeremy Lamb
0.82 Patty Mills
0.77 Justise Winslow
0.72 Myles Turner
0.69 Josh Richardson
0.66 Chris Paul
0.65 Danilo Gallinari
0.56 Kyle Lowry
0.55 Khris Middleton
0.53 Will Barton
0.48 Maurice Harkless
0.47 Tomáš Satoranský
0.41 J.J. Redick
0.41 Al Horford
0.36 Jimmy Butler
0.28 Rudy Gay
0.27 Dewayne Dedmon
0.23 Malcolm Brogdon
0.23 Andre Iguodala
0.23 Cory Joseph
0.15 Steven Adams
0.13 Marc Gasol
0.10 Paul Millsap
0.04 Eric Gordon
0.04 Kyrie Irving
-0.10 T.J. Warren
-0.14 Andre Drummond
-0.15 Meyers Leonard
-0.18 Marvin Williams
-0.23 Trevor Ariza
-0.23 Otto Porter
-0.25 Jordan Clarkson
-0.26 Tim Hardaway
-0.37 Michael Kidd-Gilchrist
-0.41 Kemba Walker
-0.41 Ian Mahinmi
-0.46 Reggie Jackson
-0.47 Norman Powell
-0.48 Taj Gibson
-0.49 Marcus Morris
-0.52 Gary Harris
-0.57 Aaron Gordon
-0.57 Gorgui Dieng
-0.57 Julius Randle
-0.68 Mason Plumlee
-0.72 Thaddeus Young
-0.75 Kelly Oubre
-0.83 Dion Waiters
-0.86 Dennis Schröder
-0.89 Evan Fournier
-0.94 Bradley Beal
-1.00 Cody Zeller
-1.05 LaMarcus Aldridge
-1.08 CJ McCollum
-1.11 James Johnson
-1.14 Bojan Bogdanović
-1.15 Terrence Ross
-1.16 Courtney Lee
-1.29 Serge Ibaka
-1.41 Bobby Portis
-1.43 Russell Westbrook
-1.46 Kent Bazemore
-1.56 Goran Dragić
-1.59 Mike Conley
-1.66 Bismack Biyombo
-1.68 Kevin Love
-1.72 Jeff Teague
-1.75 Blake Griffin
-1.80 Tobias Harris
-1.83 Devin Booker
-1.85 Gordon Hayward
-1.91 Zach LaVine (-1.06 actual PIPM minus 0.85 expected based on 19.5 mil contract)
-1.95 Tony Snell
-1.98 Solomon Hill
-2.10 Nicolas Batum
-2.30 Brandon Knight
-2.40 Harrison Barnes
-2.42 Tyler Johnson
-2.43 D'Angelo Russell
-2.58 Tristan Thompson
-2.60 DeMar DeRozan
-2.76 Andrew Wiggins
-2.98 Allen Crabbe
-3.25 Chandler Parsons
-3.39 Terry Rozier
-3.42 Evan Turner

This has to be the dumbest way to evaluate value I ever seen.

one of the dumbest comments i've ever read

nah, you're right. comparing a player's on court impact to his salary is loco

i'm gonna go ahead and guess that you just don't understand a fairly rudimentary concept

Nope I just understand basketball. And judging by some of your post, it’s obvious that you either trolling or you just don’t get it.
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Re: Knicks/Nets Looking At Lavine 

Post#94 » by PaKii94 » Sun Jul 26, 2020 4:05 am

wonderboy2 wrote:
dice wrote:
wonderboy2 wrote:This has to be the dumbest way to evaluate value I ever seen.

one of the dumbest comments i've ever read

nah, you're right. comparing a player's on court impact to his salary is loco

i'm gonna go ahead and guess that you just don't understand a fairly rudimentary concept

Nope I just understand basketball. And judging by some of your post, it’s obvious that you either trolling or you just don’t get it.


I'm sorry. I respect your opinion but just with the amount of bashing you do on sato, I don't think you do
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Re: Knicks/Nets Looking At Lavine 

Post#95 » by dice » Sun Jul 26, 2020 4:06 am

wonderboy2 wrote:
dice wrote:
wonderboy2 wrote:This has to be the dumbest way to evaluate value I ever seen.

one of the dumbest comments i've ever read

nah, you're right. comparing a player's on court impact to his salary is loco

i'm gonna go ahead and guess that you just don't understand a fairly rudimentary concept

Nope I just understand basketball. And judging by some of your post, it’s obvious that you either trolling or you just don’t get it.

clearly false. and you understand basketball economics even less

"dur, zach lavine shoot good and jump real high. he must be great!"
"all those muscles ain't gonna help you tonight. i'm gonna bust you up" - larry bird to rookie anthony mason before going for 29/18/11
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Re: Knicks/Nets Looking At Lavine 

Post#96 » by wonderboy2 » Sun Jul 26, 2020 4:14 am

dice wrote:
wonderboy2 wrote:
dice wrote:one of the dumbest comments i've ever read

nah, you're right. comparing a player's on court impact to his salary is loco

i'm gonna go ahead and guess that you just don't understand a fairly rudimentary concept

Nope I just understand basketball. And judging by some of your post, it’s obvious that you either trolling or you just don’t get it.

clearly false. and you understand basketball economics even less

"dur, zach lavine shoot good and jump real high. he must be great!"

Stop embarrassing yourself man lol. Sometimes I don’t even have to look at the posters name and know it’s you by some of the bull you be posting man. I’m actually shocked when you have a quality post.
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Re: Knicks/Nets Looking At Lavine 

Post#97 » by dice » Sun Jul 26, 2020 4:22 am

wonderboy2 wrote:
dice wrote:
wonderboy2 wrote:Nope I just understand basketball. And judging by some of your post, it’s obvious that you either trolling or you just don’t get it.

clearly false. and you understand basketball economics even less

"dur, zach lavine shoot good and jump real high. he must be great!"

Stop embarrassing yourself man lol. Sometimes I don’t even have to look at the posters name and know it’s you by some of the bull you be posting man. I’m actually shocked when you have a quality post.

all i need to see is 'lol' and "you be posting"

aren't you the same person who just said that the knicks could be scary w/ thibs? el oh el indeed

so does wonderboy wear a cape and goggles?
"all those muscles ain't gonna help you tonight. i'm gonna bust you up" - larry bird to rookie anthony mason before going for 29/18/11
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Re: Knicks/Nets Looking At Lavine 

Post#98 » by TheStig » Sun Jul 26, 2020 4:53 am

Leslie Forman wrote:If you were one of those people on the "trade Jimmy" bandwagon, you should be riding every single "trade Zach" bandwagon you can possibly find.

He's got two years left and isn't even remotely the player Jimmy was. What the hell is this franchise going to do in the next two years?

Ummm Jimmy was a 3x allstar, 3x all defense team, all nba player who led two different teams to the playoffs.

Lavine has not accomplished any one of those things.

If they're trading this years draft pick unprotected, I say go for it. Lavine is a nice player but he's not going to lead you anywhere and he will make you just good enough that you'll get the #7 pick.
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Re: Knicks/Nets Looking At Lavine 

Post#99 » by mc140 » Sun Jul 26, 2020 4:57 am

Lavine's ceiling is the third best player on a championship team. If you can get something solid pull the trigger before he gets drastically overpaid in two summers.
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Re: Knicks/Nets Looking At Lavine 

Post#100 » by WindyCityBorn » Sun Jul 26, 2020 5:06 am

mc140 wrote:Lavine's ceiling is the third best player on a championship team. If you can get something solid pull the trigger before he gets drastically overpaid in two summers.


So keep recycling players while you wait for a unicorn? Seems like a great way to never be competitive. Are we shipping Lauri and Wendell off too because they have ever lower ceilings?

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