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OT? Thibs to NY Knicks on 5 year deal

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Re: OT? Thibs to NY Knicks on 5 year deal 

Post#101 » by BarryLird » Wed Jul 29, 2020 2:52 am

Red8911 wrote:I hate the Knicks so I hate it when they always pick up former Bulls players or coaches. Feel like it happens all the time with them, they have signed Rose, Noah, Gibson, and many others in the past years. Seems like they are obsessed with us lol.

Anyway Thibs was a very good signing for them and he will definitely get the best out of that no talent team. Having said that though it’s probably one of the toughest jobs to have right now. Many Knicks fans are excited but I’m sure in time they will probably hate him especially if they aren’t winning.
Technically you guys signed one of our former guys. Tom Thibodeau was an assistant with the Knicks for 8 years. Just saying.
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Re: OT? Thibs to NY Knicks on 5 year deal 

Post#102 » by donaldtrump_00 » Wed Jul 29, 2020 10:49 am

Susan wrote:
dougthonus wrote:Thought it was funny that they quoted that they'll be counting on his success with player development.

I think Thibs is a good coach, but I don't know that I'd rank player development as one of his key strengths. Young players seem to often wilt under Thibs and rarely get much burn on the court.


Jiimmy Butler? Niko got 20 mpg as a rookie on a very deep team. Derrick took steps forward with Thibs.

Sorry he couldn't do anything with Teague or Dougie McGarbage.



Do most of y'all pay any attention to player development? Doug McDermott is finally playing like a true nba player. He's in the Pacers rotation nightly before the pandemic. He's improved a lot. Late bloomer.
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Re: OT? Thibs to NY Knicks on 5 year deal 

Post#103 » by FriedRise » Thu Jul 30, 2020 5:06 pm

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Re: OT? Thibs to NY Knicks on 5 year deal 

Post#104 » by ATRAIN53 » Thu Jul 30, 2020 8:51 pm

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Frankie Smokes - future DPOY....

I'm pretty psyched for this.
I love Thibs and this is his dream job. He's not the first to say that but hes the first one I actually believe.

I mean he would have loved the Celtics job but he knows leading the Knicks to the promised land would mean he's the greatest coach in Knicks history. He'd have to win like 20 titles in BOS to ever earn that title.

The NBA is better when the Knicks are relevant.

He will make them relevant.

If Barret and Robinson want to be great he can make them great.

and this kinda brings JVG back into the Knicks fold. That's also a WIN
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Re: OT? Thibs to NY Knicks on 5 year deal 

Post#105 » by Michael Jackson » Thu Jul 30, 2020 9:12 pm

ATRAIN53 wrote:
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Frankie Smokes - future DPOY....

I'm pretty psyched for this.
I love Thibs and this is his dream job. He's not the first to say that but hes the first one I actually believe.

I mean he would have loved the Celtics job but he knows leading the Knicks to the promised land would mean he's the greatest coach in Knicks history. He'd have to win like 20 titles in BOS to ever earn that title.

The NBA is better when the Knicks are relevant.

He will make them relevant.

If Barret and Robinson want to be great he can make them great.

and this kinda brings JVG back into the Knicks fold. That's also a WIN



There is no doubt in my mind that the NBA is better when the Knicks are relevant and I hope Thibs achieves that. That being said though the Knicks are kinda becoming the Cubs, they are just the expected losers who fall short etc... there is a certain charm to that. I really do though prefer when the Knicks are relevant. It sucks ha omg the Mecca be an easy win or an off night for visiting teams. MSG is still a big stage but it’s more fun when the competition is high end.
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Re: OT? Thibs to NY Knicks on 5 year deal 

Post#106 » by patryk7754 » Fri Jul 31, 2020 2:19 am

I think the Knicks have a bright future and it'll be sooner rather than later. Leon Rose's first significant moves are to bring in Thibs and Woodson. Two highly respected coaches. I think an underrated thing about Rose is that players he's represented. To name a few, Melo, CP3, LeBron, Booker, Embbid, Oladipo, and Allen Iverson. I think he'll be able to use that effectively when recruiting FAs. I thnk the combo great coaches, Rose's past as an agent, plus the allure of NYC will bring players back to the Knick pretty soon. They can make some nice moves this offseason

Dragic, Gallinari, and whiteside would be a pretty good offseason plus their high draft pick.

Dragic/Barret/Galli/Randle/Whiteside

Also wouldn't be surprised is they brought in Melo and CP3 and another option
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Re: OT? Thibs to NY Knicks on 5 year deal 

Post#107 » by sco » Fri Jul 31, 2020 12:05 pm

patryk7754 wrote:I think the Knicks have a bright future and it'll be sooner rather than later. Leon Rose's first significant moves are to bring in Thibs and Woodson. Two highly respected coaches. I think an underrated thing about Rose is that players he's represented. To name a few, Melo, CP3, LeBron, Booker, Embbid, Oladipo, and Allen Iverson. I think he'll be able to use that effectively when recruiting FAs. I thnk the combo great coaches, Rose's past as an agent, plus the allure of NYC will bring players back to the Knick pretty soon. They can make some nice moves this offseason

Dragic, Gallinari, and whiteside would be a pretty good offseason plus their high draft pick.

Dragic/Barret/Galli/Randle/Whiteside

Also wouldn't be surprised is they brought in Melo and CP3 and another option

I say this as a Knick fan. I could totally see those guys ending-up in NY...Then the Knicks having a great start to the season...Then the old guys on that roster breaking down...Then have the Knicks finish in the 9th spot, out of the playoffs, with an old roster and a bad pick.
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Re: OT? Thibs to NY Knicks on 5 year deal 

Post#108 » by Lexluthor » Wed Aug 5, 2020 11:19 am

Thibs is overrated He never made adjustments in the playoffs. Look at the playoff series vs the wizards
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Re: OT? Thibs to NY Knicks on 5 year deal 

Post#109 » by TheFinishSniper » Wed Aug 5, 2020 12:49 pm

Lexluthor wrote:Thibs is overrated He never made adjustments in the playoffs. Look at the playoff series vs the wizards

Shouldnt worry much. Knicks wont make playoffs
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Re: OT? Thibs to NY Knicks on 5 year deal 

Post#110 » by Leslie Forman » Thu Aug 6, 2020 2:33 am

Lexluthor wrote:Thibs is overrated He never made adjustments in the playoffs. Look at the playoff series vs the wizards

Or maybe you had an inflated view of the team's abilities because he grossly overachieved with a team that salary dumped their second best player in the middle of the season?

If there is one thing about Thibs that screws himself over…it's taking all 82 games so seriously. It ends up in overachieving regular seasons that then inflate everyone else's view of his rosters…which never ends well. But how do you tell a man like that to ease up? It's who he is, to the core. It's the entire reason he is so successful.

There's probably still some Minnesota fans out there who think Wiggins and Towns are the next Kobe and Shaq.
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Re: OT? Thibs to NY Knicks on 5 year deal 

Post#111 » by MrSparkle » Thu Aug 6, 2020 2:55 am

Leslie Forman wrote:
Lexluthor wrote:Thibs is overrated He never made adjustments in the playoffs. Look at the playoff series vs the wizards

Or maybe you had an inflated view of the team's abilities because he grossly overachieved with a team that salary dumped their second best player in the middle of the season?

If there is one thing about Thibs that screws himself over…it's taking all 82 games so seriously. It ends up in overachieving regular seasons that then inflate everyone else's view of his rosters…which never ends well. But how do you tell a man like that to ease up? It's who he is, to the core. It's the entire reason he is so successful.

There's probably still some Minnesota fans out there who think Wiggins and Towns are the next Kobe and Shaq.


The match-ups were pretty hilarious in hindsight:

Wall - Kirk
Ariza - Jimmy
Beal - Dunleavy
Nene - Booze
Gortat - Noah

DJ and Taj were power-subs (essentially better than their starters), but the Wiz had a very respectable vet bench. Jimmy was still a role-player. Nene found his A-game while Noah lost it.

Talent wise, considering Wall’s young stardom, Beal’s late season emergence, that was one of the most lop-sided series ever. While frustrating, it was really impressive that Thibs managed to mask and delude me into getting angry about losing in the first place to a team that was better at every single position, including the bench.
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Re: OT? Thibs to NY Knicks on 5 year deal 

Post#112 » by johnnyvann840 » Thu Aug 6, 2020 3:47 am

MrSparkle wrote:
Leslie Forman wrote:
Lexluthor wrote:Thibs is overrated He never made adjustments in the playoffs. Look at the playoff series vs the wizards

Or maybe you had an inflated view of the team's abilities because he grossly overachieved with a team that salary dumped their second best player in the middle of the season?

If there is one thing about Thibs that screws himself over…it's taking all 82 games so seriously. It ends up in overachieving regular seasons that then inflate everyone else's view of his rosters…which never ends well. But how do you tell a man like that to ease up? It's who he is, to the core. It's the entire reason he is so successful.

There's probably still some Minnesota fans out there who think Wiggins and Towns are the next Kobe and Shaq.


The match-ups were pretty hilarious in hindsight:

Wall - Kirk
Ariza - Jimmy
Beal - Dunleavy
Nene - Booze
Gortat - Noah

DJ and Taj were power-subs (essentially better than their starters), but the Wiz had a very respectable vet bench. Jimmy was still a role-player. Nene found his A-game while Noah lost it.

Talent wise, considering Wall’s young stardom, Beal’s late season emergence, that was one of the most lop-sided series ever. While frustrating, it was really impressive that Thibs managed to mask and delude me into getting angry about losing in the first place to a team that was better at every single position, including the bench.


Not to mention Jimmy was playing hurt and Noah was hurt too. Taj was our best player in that series.
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Re: OT? Thibs to NY Knicks on 5 year deal 

Post#113 » by TheStig » Thu Aug 6, 2020 5:16 am

johnnyvann840 wrote:
MrSparkle wrote:
Leslie Forman wrote:Or maybe you had an inflated view of the team's abilities because he grossly overachieved with a team that salary dumped their second best player in the middle of the season?

If there is one thing about Thibs that screws himself over…it's taking all 82 games so seriously. It ends up in overachieving regular seasons that then inflate everyone else's view of his rosters…which never ends well. But how do you tell a man like that to ease up? It's who he is, to the core. It's the entire reason he is so successful.

There's probably still some Minnesota fans out there who think Wiggins and Towns are the next Kobe and Shaq.


The match-ups were pretty hilarious in hindsight:

Wall - Kirk
Ariza - Jimmy
Beal - Dunleavy
Nene - Booze
Gortat - Noah

DJ and Taj were power-subs (essentially better than their starters), but the Wiz had a very respectable vet bench. Jimmy was still a role-player. Nene found his A-game while Noah lost it.

Talent wise, considering Wall’s young stardom, Beal’s late season emergence, that was one of the most lop-sided series ever. While frustrating, it was really impressive that Thibs managed to mask and delude me into getting angry about losing in the first place to a team that was better at every single position, including the bench.


Not to mention Jimmy was playing hurt and Noah was hurt too. Taj was our best player in that series.

Yes but as we all know. Thibs is personally and solely responsible for every injury during his tenure and after.
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Re: OT? Thibs to NY Knicks on 5 year deal 

Post#114 » by Am2626 » Sat Aug 8, 2020 5:13 pm

coldfish wrote:
dougthonus wrote:Thought it was funny that they quoted that they'll be counting on his success with player development.

I think Thibs is a good coach, but I don't know that I'd rank player development as one of his key strengths. Young players seem to often wilt under Thibs and rarely get much burn on the court.


Thibs had Rose, Noah, Butler, Gibson and a few other players blossom under him. Players that suck don't get to play but its not like McDermott went on to light the world on fire after leaving Thibs.

Compared to other coaches, I would say that Thibs has a fantastic batting average. Fans frequently decide that their pet cat is a stud and the only thing holding him back is the coach but the reality is that most draft picks don't work out.


I think developing players and getting the most out of them was a big strength of Thibs during his time with the Bulls. All of Rose, Deng, and Noah peaked during that era. Then you look at guys like Nate Robinson, Marco Benilelli, and D.J. Augustine all had career years playing for Thibs. Once they left they didn’t do much else. He developed Butler from a late first round pick into a star player. Almost everyone under Boylen has regressed.
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Re: OT? Thibs to NY Knicks on 5 year deal 

Post#115 » by dougthonus » Sat Aug 8, 2020 6:08 pm

Am2626 wrote:I think developing players and getting the most out of them was a big strength of Thibs during his time with the Bulls. All of Rose, Deng, and Noah peaked during that era. Then you look at guys like Nate Robinson, Marco Benilelli, and D.J. Augustine all had career years playing for Thibs. Once they left they didn’t do much else. He developed Butler from a late first round pick into a star player. Almost everyone under Boylen has regressed.


Deng has his best year of his career under Skiles in his 3rd season.

Rose is a hilarious example to say he peaked under Thibs, he played his whole pre-injury career under Thibs and had no relevant other years.

Noah peaked under Thibs but was basically the same player the year before Thibs got there.

Butler took a long time to develop under Thibs and got much better after Thibs.

Bellinelli didn't have a career year under Thibs, he was better the two previous years before and the year after.

Nate Robinson didn't have a career year, but he did have a big resurgence under Thibs.

D.J. Augustin did have a career year under Thibs.
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Re: OT? Thibs to NY Knicks on 5 year deal 

Post#116 » by kodo » Sat Aug 8, 2020 8:10 pm

NBA head coaches aren't responsible for player development. That's mostly done with specialized player development staff and also private trainers hired by the players themselves. EG Popovich never worked with Kawhi's shot, that was Chip Engelland. Head Coaching is a massive enough job without taking on player development for every player on a roster.

Rose trained in closed sessions with Russell Westbrook under McClanaghan. Rose has dropped quotes years ago how going against Westbrook improved his game.

Jimmy Butler made his big leap in the summer where he locked himself at a house and threw away his cellphone. He trained at that time with Travelle Gaines. He purposely ignored the Chicago Bulls that summer and made his biggest leap as a player that summer.

Noah was super hustle player, I'm not sure how much you "develop" that. Noah won 2 titles in college as a hustle/defensive player and largely was the same player in the NBA. He didn't gain much more skill or a broader game.

I would argue Taj was an example of botched player development. When he started for us during Boozer's moronic injury, he had a great mid range jump shoot. He was 39% from long 2 as a rook, Tatum shoots 38% now. He had great potential. I remember a lot of us were disappointed Booze replaced him when he healed, and Thibs always starting Boozer over Taj was forever a sore point. Taj was forced down a path of being a 1 way defender/hustler, and I think he had more in him than that.

Thib's penchant for giving free reign to small scoring guards wasn't really a positive for me, and it wasn't development. These guy were all veterans and didn't become better players, they were just allowed to whatever they wanted. Aaron Brooks had his 2nd best scoring season in Chicago and that wasn't development, he was 30 years old. And his chucking shots non-stop was one of the worst parts of our coaching, not a positive.

There's also the big data point outside of Chicago. Thibs' last full season with the TWolves they were the 27th defense in the league, and KAT & Wiggins developed into horrible defenders despite everyone agreeing both had excellent defensive tools.

But to be sure this isn't bashing Thibs as a poor developer; I don't think any HC truly deserves credit for their players. I don't think PJ Carlesimo created Kevin Durant, I don't think Paul Silas created Lebron, I don't think any of MJ's first 3 coaches created MJ. Heck, Devin Booker has had something like 5 head coaches in 5 seasons, he's been developing into a star just fine. Booker is a good example of why a player would not want to get development from a team's coach, as that situation is so fickle and can change at any time.

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