Image ImageImage Image

OT? Thibs to NY Knicks on 5 year deal

Moderators: HomoSapien, Ice Man, AshyLarrysDiaper, Tommy Udo 6 , GimmeDat, dougthonus, DASMACKDOWN, Payt10, kulaz3000, fleet, RedBulls23

User avatar
Jcool0
General Manager
Posts: 8,578
And1: 5,064
Joined: Jul 12, 2014
Location: Illinois
         

Re: OT? Thibs to NY Knicks on 5 year deal 

Post#81 » by Jcool0 » Sun Jul 26, 2020 8:57 pm

MrFortune3 wrote:
dice wrote:
wonderboy2 wrote:Knicks might become scary. Thibs is a boss of a coach. It seems like the bulls new ownership might be puppets of Reisndorf.

did the wolves become scary? they had more talent than the knicks


They had two of the softest "superstars" I have ever seen in my life.
KAT and Wiggins should be two way monsters and straight up dominant but they refuse to give defensive effort :banghead:


And NY has what exactly?
User avatar
coldfish
Forum Mod
Forum Mod
Posts: 49,943
And1: 19,640
Joined: Jun 11, 2004
Location: Right in the middle
 

Re: OT? Thibs to NY Knicks on 5 year deal 

Post#82 » by coldfish » Sun Jul 26, 2020 9:10 pm

FriedRise wrote:I think Thibs didn't work in Minny because they gave him too much responsibility. They tried to turn him into Pop there with the coach + president of basketball operations role, and we all know there's only ever gonna be one Pop. When his role is limited to just coaching (a.k.a his Chicago stint), he's done pretty well.

It's kinda similar to what the Bulls did with Jim Boylen last year by giving him other responsibilities to do on top of being a head coach, like dealing with players agents, meeting with season ticket holders, etc. It's weird that we don't have the staff to do this kind of stuff, but I guess that's what you can expect from a small market mom and pop shop like the Chicago Bulls. Why spend more money hiring more people to do specialized things if you can do more with less? Maybe that's what AK/Eversley are thinking - that if Jimbo is limited to just coaching, he'll do better (which I highly doubt).


As far as Thibs in Minnesota, let's not forget that Thibs worked out a deal where the Bulls got Wiggins and not Lavine, minus an asset. Taylor stepped in and vetoed the trade. He forced Thibs to give up Lavine instead and then gave Wiggins a full max contract while telling Butler no on the same thing. Butler forced his way out as a result.

If not for that, Minnesota would have had Lavine, Butler and Towns for the long term.

The reason Thibs didn't work out in Minnesota was simply that.

Man, I couldn't imagine how bad things would be for Chicago if they had Wiggins on a long term max instead of Lavine at $20m.
StunnerKO
Veteran
Posts: 2,773
And1: 1,864
Joined: Sep 25, 2017

Re: OT? Thibs to NY Knicks on 5 year deal 

Post#83 » by StunnerKO » Sun Jul 26, 2020 9:22 pm

Jimmy would have loved Lavine
User avatar
Leslie Forman
General Manager
Posts: 8,412
And1: 3,728
Joined: Apr 21, 2006
Location: 1700 Center Dr, Ames, IA 50011

Re: OT? Thibs to NY Knicks on 5 year deal 

Post#84 » by Leslie Forman » Sun Jul 26, 2020 9:44 pm

coldfish wrote:As far as Thibs in Minnesota, let's not forget that Thibs worked out a deal where the Bulls got Wiggins and not Lavine, minus an asset. Taylor stepped in and vetoed the trade. He forced Thibs to give up Lavine instead and then gave Wiggins a full max contract while telling Butler no on the same thing. Butler forced his way out as a result.

If not for that, Minnesota would have had Lavine, Butler and Towns for the long term.

The reason Thibs didn't work out in Minnesota was simply that.

Man, I couldn't imagine how bad things would be for Chicago if they had Wiggins on a long term max instead of Lavine at $20m.

It also screwed Thibs from going after Kyrie Irving with that Butler package, when Irving had Minnesota on his shortlist. He very well could have ended up with Irving/Butler/Towns.

Glen Taylor is the real enemy of that franchise but from what I've observed, Minnesota fans, frankly, just don't care about winning all that much. They are maybe the least winning-concerned fanbase in the league, which I guess is a decent way of coping with the awfulness of their franchise.
User avatar
MrFortune3
Head Coach
Posts: 6,219
And1: 1,873
Joined: Jul 03, 2010
         

Re: OT? Thibs to NY Knicks on 5 year deal 

Post#85 » by MrFortune3 » Sun Jul 26, 2020 10:07 pm

Jcool0 wrote:
MrFortune3 wrote:
dice wrote:did the wolves become scary? they had more talent than the knicks


They had two of the softest "superstars" I have ever seen in my life.
KAT and Wiggins should be two way monsters and straight up dominant but they refuse to give defensive effort :banghead:


And NY has what exactly?


I was just commenting on Minnesota and how disappointing their talent was.

I think with Mitchell Robinson, Thibs has his defensive anchor and he'll be a Noah type for him.
Barrett I like a lot and think he will progress under Thibs.

They don't have nearly the franchise potential talent level of the T-Wolves but if they land a PG like Hailburton or Hayes in the draft that can play offense and defend, it would be a big boost to their team.
User avatar
MrFortune3
Head Coach
Posts: 6,219
And1: 1,873
Joined: Jul 03, 2010
         

Re: OT? Thibs to NY Knicks on 5 year deal 

Post#86 » by MrFortune3 » Sun Jul 26, 2020 10:09 pm

Leslie Forman wrote:
coldfish wrote:As far as Thibs in Minnesota, let's not forget that Thibs worked out a deal where the Bulls got Wiggins and not Lavine, minus an asset. Taylor stepped in and vetoed the trade. He forced Thibs to give up Lavine instead and then gave Wiggins a full max contract while telling Butler no on the same thing. Butler forced his way out as a result.

If not for that, Minnesota would have had Lavine, Butler and Towns for the long term.

The reason Thibs didn't work out in Minnesota was simply that.

Man, I couldn't imagine how bad things would be for Chicago if they had Wiggins on a long term max instead of Lavine at $20m.

It also screwed Thibs from going after Kyrie Irving with that Butler package, when Irving had Minnesota on his shortlist. He very well could have ended up with Irving/Butler/Towns.

Glen Taylor is the real enemy of that franchise but from what I've observed, Minnesota fans, frankly, just don't care about winning all that much. They are maybe the least winning-concerned fanbase in the league, which I guess is a decent way of coping with the awfulness of their franchise.


They lived through the KG era and that killed their desire to win after he was dealt to the Celtics. Then they sucked for years after that.
dice
RealGM
Posts: 36,556
And1: 9,767
Joined: Jun 30, 2003
Location: chicago

Re: OT? Thibs to NY Knicks on 5 year deal 

Post#87 » by dice » Sun Jul 26, 2020 11:11 pm

coldfish wrote:
FriedRise wrote:I think Thibs didn't work in Minny because they gave him too much responsibility. They tried to turn him into Pop there with the coach + president of basketball operations role, and we all know there's only ever gonna be one Pop. When his role is limited to just coaching (a.k.a his Chicago stint), he's done pretty well.

It's kinda similar to what the Bulls did with Jim Boylen last year by giving him other responsibilities to do on top of being a head coach, like dealing with players agents, meeting with season ticket holders, etc. It's weird that we don't have the staff to do this kind of stuff, but I guess that's what you can expect from a small market mom and pop shop like the Chicago Bulls. Why spend more money hiring more people to do specialized things if you can do more with less? Maybe that's what AK/Eversley are thinking - that if Jimbo is limited to just coaching, he'll do better (which I highly doubt).


As far as Thibs in Minnesota, let's not forget that Thibs worked out a deal where the Bulls got Wiggins and not Lavine, minus an asset. Taylor stepped in and vetoed the trade. He forced Thibs to give up Lavine instead and then gave Wiggins a full max contract while telling Butler no on the same thing. Butler forced his way out as a result.

If not for that, Minnesota would have had Lavine, Butler and Towns for the long term.

The reason Thibs didn't work out in Minnesota was simply that.

Man, I couldn't imagine how bad things would be for Chicago if they had Wiggins on a long term max instead of Lavine at $20m.

another reason thibs didn't work out in minny is that he stopped being good at the thing he was known for: improving defenses
"all those muscles ain't gonna help you tonight. i'm gonna bust you up" - larry bird to rookie anthony mason before going for 29/18/11
Jimako10
Veteran
Posts: 2,696
And1: 984
Joined: Jun 16, 2010
   

Re: OT? Thibs to NY Knicks on 5 year deal 

Post#88 » by Jimako10 » Mon Jul 27, 2020 4:35 pm

dice wrote:
coldfish wrote:
FriedRise wrote:I think Thibs didn't work in Minny because they gave him too much responsibility. They tried to turn him into Pop there with the coach + president of basketball operations role, and we all know there's only ever gonna be one Pop. When his role is limited to just coaching (a.k.a his Chicago stint), he's done pretty well.

It's kinda similar to what the Bulls did with Jim Boylen last year by giving him other responsibilities to do on top of being a head coach, like dealing with players agents, meeting with season ticket holders, etc. It's weird that we don't have the staff to do this kind of stuff, but I guess that's what you can expect from a small market mom and pop shop like the Chicago Bulls. Why spend more money hiring more people to do specialized things if you can do more with less? Maybe that's what AK/Eversley are thinking - that if Jimbo is limited to just coaching, he'll do better (which I highly doubt).


As far as Thibs in Minnesota, let's not forget that Thibs worked out a deal where the Bulls got Wiggins and not Lavine, minus an asset. Taylor stepped in and vetoed the trade. He forced Thibs to give up Lavine instead and then gave Wiggins a full max contract while telling Butler no on the same thing. Butler forced his way out as a result.

If not for that, Minnesota would have had Lavine, Butler and Towns for the long term.

The reason Thibs didn't work out in Minnesota was simply that.

Man, I couldn't imagine how bad things would be for Chicago if they had Wiggins on a long term max instead of Lavine at $20m.

another reason thibs didn't work out in minny is that he stopped being good at the thing he was known for: improving defenses


BUT he became good at the thing he wasn't known for: improving offenses....I believe he had the 2 best offensive ratings in Timberwolves history.
User avatar
The Evidence
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,883
And1: 1,380
Joined: Dec 07, 2004

Re: OT? Thibs to NY Knicks on 5 year deal 

Post#89 » by The Evidence » Mon Jul 27, 2020 6:40 pm

Knicks need to be stealth tanking every year for a superstar.

Not aiming for the 8 seed with their mediocre talent.

This is chess, not checkers.
User avatar
TheStig
RealGM
Posts: 12,688
And1: 3,034
Joined: Jun 18, 2004
Location: Get rid of GarPaxDorf

Re: OT? Thibs to NY Knicks on 5 year deal 

Post#90 » by TheStig » Mon Jul 27, 2020 7:01 pm

coldfish wrote:
FriedRise wrote:I think Thibs didn't work in Minny because they gave him too much responsibility. They tried to turn him into Pop there with the coach + president of basketball operations role, and we all know there's only ever gonna be one Pop. When his role is limited to just coaching (a.k.a his Chicago stint), he's done pretty well.

It's kinda similar to what the Bulls did with Jim Boylen last year by giving him other responsibilities to do on top of being a head coach, like dealing with players agents, meeting with season ticket holders, etc. It's weird that we don't have the staff to do this kind of stuff, but I guess that's what you can expect from a small market mom and pop shop like the Chicago Bulls. Why spend more money hiring more people to do specialized things if you can do more with less? Maybe that's what AK/Eversley are thinking - that if Jimbo is limited to just coaching, he'll do better (which I highly doubt).


As far as Thibs in Minnesota, let's not forget that Thibs worked out a deal where the Bulls got Wiggins and not Lavine, minus an asset. Taylor stepped in and vetoed the trade. He forced Thibs to give up Lavine instead and then gave Wiggins a full max contract while telling Butler no on the same thing. Butler forced his way out as a result.

If not for that, Minnesota would have had Lavine, Butler and Towns for the long term.

The reason Thibs didn't work out in Minnesota was simply that.

Man, I couldn't imagine how bad things would be for Chicago if they had Wiggins on a long term max instead of Lavine at $20m.

Glen Taylor really ruined things. Even with Wiggins, they were playing very well till Butler went down and still made the playoffs for the first time in a decade. They were set up to be a playoff team for years if Taylor would have just given Butler an extension.
User avatar
TheStig
RealGM
Posts: 12,688
And1: 3,034
Joined: Jun 18, 2004
Location: Get rid of GarPaxDorf

Re: OT? Thibs to NY Knicks on 5 year deal 

Post#91 » by TheStig » Mon Jul 27, 2020 7:04 pm

The Evidence wrote:Knicks need to be stealth tanking every year for a superstar.

Not aiming for the 8 seed with their mediocre talent.

This is chess, not checkers.

That's funny people say that. The Nets couldn't tank and aimed for the 8th seed and then got two superstars.

NY, like LA, are the places that guys really want to come if you're respectable. NY has been tanking for a star for a decade.
Red8911
RealGM
Posts: 10,376
And1: 2,422
Joined: Jul 13, 2010
Location: BROOKLYN

Re: OT? Thibs to NY Knicks on 5 year deal 

Post#92 » by Red8911 » Mon Jul 27, 2020 7:14 pm

I hate the Knicks so I hate it when they always pick up former Bulls players or coaches. Feel like it happens all the time with them, they have signed Rose, Noah, Gibson, and many others in the past years. Seems like they are obsessed with us lol.

Anyway Thibs was a very good signing for them and he will definitely get the best out of that no talent team. Having said that though it’s probably one of the toughest jobs to have right now. Many Knicks fans are excited but I’m sure in time they will probably hate him especially if they aren’t winning.
User avatar
TheStig
RealGM
Posts: 12,688
And1: 3,034
Joined: Jun 18, 2004
Location: Get rid of GarPaxDorf

Re: OT? Thibs to NY Knicks on 5 year deal 

Post#93 » by TheStig » Mon Jul 27, 2020 8:36 pm

Red8911 wrote:I hate the Knicks so I hate it when they always pick up former Bulls players or coaches. Feel like it happens all the time with them, they have signed Rose, Noah, Gibson, and many others in the past years. Seems like they are obsessed with us lol.

Anyway Thibs was a very good signing for them and he will definitely get the best out of that no talent team. Having said that though it’s probably one of the toughest jobs to have right now. Many Knicks fans are excited but I’m sure in time they will probably hate him especially if they aren’t winning.

I mean you have to be realistic about the turn around that you expect. The Knicks suck. That's up and down the roster. You have to get talent before you can be good. But if anyone can build a 8th seed offense around Julius Randle, it's Thibs.
User avatar
The Evidence
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,883
And1: 1,380
Joined: Dec 07, 2004

Re: OT? Thibs to NY Knicks on 5 year deal 

Post#94 » by The Evidence » Mon Jul 27, 2020 9:17 pm

TheStig wrote:That's funny people say that. The Nets couldn't tank and aimed for the 8th seed and then got two superstars.

NY, like LA, are the places that guys really want to come if you're respectable. NY has been tanking for a star for a decade.

Have the Knicks been tanking all-decade tho?

They tried going half-in with those Melo and Amar'e teams in the early teens.

They got unlucky with the start of their Post-Melo rebuild with the Porzingis injuries and then with 17 and 18 being weak drafts.

They have a terrible reputation as an organization and the Thibodeau style is outdated now. Not to mention the pressure of saving a starved franchise.

I just don't see the recruiting angle or FAs running to join the Knicks if they're the 6-8 seed (like the Brooklyn scenario which materialized for several reasons unrelated to their record).
MrSparkle
RealGM
Posts: 15,649
And1: 5,268
Joined: Jul 31, 2003
Location: chicago

Re: OT? Thibs to NY Knicks on 5 year deal 

Post#95 » by MrSparkle » Mon Jul 27, 2020 9:44 pm

Don't get me wrong, Wiggins isn't a total Bennett bust and KAT can fill a stat sheet, but what an absolutely terrible super-max tandem to build around.

Wolves were 19-45 this season. Thibs got fired last year with a 19-21 record in a much tougher West (healthy Durant GSW, better Spurs/Kings/Blazers... Lakers/Mavs were losers but still had superstars Lebron and Luka). When he took the job in 2016, he had the younger version of the Wolves at 31 wins.

My point is that Thibs deserved this 3rd shot. He's still pretty successful, if you look at his total head coaching results. I mean, GarPax's trigger-point was that he lost a series to Lebron, with 35yo Pau missing the last 2 games with injury, verge-of-huge-career-decline Noah/Kirk/Dunleavy running out of gas, and Rose having a career crisis against Dellavedova (and in a way, I don't blame Derrick for taking his foot off the gas - besides Beverley, I can't think of a more physical/"oops-I-accidentally-injured-you" PG to play against).

Similarly, that Butler meltdown wasn't Thibs' fault as much as Taylor's. Clearly Jimmy had a problem with Wiggins, and the owner somehow bet his franchise on a soft, high usage, 4th-year player coming off a 13 PER season with plenty of red flags (shooting, handles, efficiency, defense, toughness, work ethic).

I get that having a maniac boss can be tiring. But in his cases, he's pushed underachievers beyond their limits. NYK are classic underachievers, and their team has no superstar prospects on the horizon. He should at the very at least be able to get them to tune out the noise of MSG and put out a better product.
dice
RealGM
Posts: 36,556
And1: 9,767
Joined: Jun 30, 2003
Location: chicago

Re: OT? Thibs to NY Knicks on 5 year deal 

Post#96 » by dice » Mon Jul 27, 2020 10:16 pm

Jimako10 wrote:
dice wrote:
coldfish wrote:
As far as Thibs in Minnesota, let's not forget that Thibs worked out a deal where the Bulls got Wiggins and not Lavine, minus an asset. Taylor stepped in and vetoed the trade. He forced Thibs to give up Lavine instead and then gave Wiggins a full max contract while telling Butler no on the same thing. Butler forced his way out as a result.

If not for that, Minnesota would have had Lavine, Butler and Towns for the long term.

The reason Thibs didn't work out in Minnesota was simply that.

Man, I couldn't imagine how bad things would be for Chicago if they had Wiggins on a long term max instead of Lavine at $20m.

another reason thibs didn't work out in minny is that he stopped being good at the thing he was known for: improving defenses


BUT he became good at the thing he wasn't known for: improving offenses....I believe he had the 2 best offensive ratings in Timberwolves history.

they had the #12 offense under sam mitchell and improved to 10th in thibs's first season w/ a very young team. then they went to 4th by adding jimmy and slipped back to 11th after jimmy left. so really, it was jimmy butler who moved the needle on their offense
"all those muscles ain't gonna help you tonight. i'm gonna bust you up" - larry bird to rookie anthony mason before going for 29/18/11
User avatar
TheStig
RealGM
Posts: 12,688
And1: 3,034
Joined: Jun 18, 2004
Location: Get rid of GarPaxDorf

Re: OT? Thibs to NY Knicks on 5 year deal 

Post#97 » by TheStig » Mon Jul 27, 2020 11:58 pm

The Evidence wrote:
TheStig wrote:That's funny people say that. The Nets couldn't tank and aimed for the 8th seed and then got two superstars.

NY, like LA, are the places that guys really want to come if you're respectable. NY has been tanking for a star for a decade.

Have the Knicks been tanking all-decade tho?

They tried going half-in with those Melo and Amar'e teams in the early teens.

They got unlucky with the start of their Post-Melo rebuild with the Porzingis injuries and then with 17 and 18 being weak drafts.

They have a terrible reputation as an organization and the Thibodeau style is outdated now. Not to mention the pressure of saving a starved franchise.

I just don't see the recruiting angle or FAs running to join the Knicks if they're the 6-8 seed (like the Brooklyn scenario which materialized for several reasons unrelated to their record).

I'm sorry, they made the playoffs a couple of times in the last decade. It's been 7 years of sucking.

Their reputation can be erased easily. The Clippers had Donald Sterling as owner and got CP3 to agree to come there. The Knicks got Melo to come there despite their terrible rep.

If they get into the playoffs the reputation will change on them quick and people will want to come like they did to the Nets.
Mark K
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 80,264
And1: 23,554
Joined: Jan 24, 2004
 

Re: OT? Thibs to NY Knicks on 5 year deal 

Post#98 » by Mark K » Tue Jul 28, 2020 4:22 am

Thibs supposedly never played younger players, but routinely had Taj and Asik, two young and inexperienced players, closing games...

He put the ball in Mirotic's hands in the fourth quarter during his rookie season.

If you were good and worthy, Thibs played you.

There are very real flaws that Thibs has. Player development isn't one.
User avatar
Michael Jackson
RealGM
Posts: 15,051
And1: 1,774
Joined: Jun 15, 2001

Re: OT? Thibs to NY Knicks on 5 year deal 

Post#99 » by Michael Jackson » Tue Jul 28, 2020 3:57 pm

Leslie Forman wrote:
coldfish wrote:As far as Thibs in Minnesota, let's not forget that Thibs worked out a deal where the Bulls got Wiggins and not Lavine, minus an asset. Taylor stepped in and vetoed the trade. He forced Thibs to give up Lavine instead and then gave Wiggins a full max contract while telling Butler no on the same thing. Butler forced his way out as a result.

If not for that, Minnesota would have had Lavine, Butler and Towns for the long term.

The reason Thibs didn't work out in Minnesota was simply that.

Man, I couldn't imagine how bad things would be for Chicago if they had Wiggins on a long term max instead of Lavine at $20m.

It also screwed Thibs from going after Kyrie Irving with that Butler package, when Irving had Minnesota on his shortlist. He very well could have ended up with Irving/Butler/Towns.

Glen Taylor is the real enemy of that franchise but from what I've observed, Minnesota fans, frankly, just don't care about winning all that much. They are maybe the least winning-concerned fanbase in the league, which I guess is a decent way of coping with the awfulness of their franchise.


The Joe Smith penalty was extreme and sucked the wind out of their sails. It wasn’t even a good tampering example (and that’s why they could do it a star would make too much mess in the media) it also killed KG’s prime. I empathize. Plus wasn’t their first player in the expansion a man named Pooh? Nothing against Mr Richardson but it is tough starting off a team with Pooh. Not a good omen.
User avatar
Michael Jackson
RealGM
Posts: 15,051
And1: 1,774
Joined: Jun 15, 2001

Re: OT? Thibs to NY Knicks on 5 year deal 

Post#100 » by Michael Jackson » Tue Jul 28, 2020 3:59 pm

TheStig wrote:
The Evidence wrote:
TheStig wrote:That's funny people say that. The Nets couldn't tank and aimed for the 8th seed and then got two superstars.

NY, like LA, are the places that guys really want to come if you're respectable. NY has been tanking for a star for a decade.

Have the Knicks been tanking all-decade tho?

They tried going half-in with those Melo and Amar'e teams in the early teens.

They got unlucky with the start of their Post-Melo rebuild with the Porzingis injuries and then with 17 and 18 being weak drafts.

They have a terrible reputation as an organization and the Thibodeau style is outdated now. Not to mention the pressure of saving a starved franchise.

I just don't see the recruiting angle or FAs running to join the Knicks if they're the 6-8 seed (like the Brooklyn scenario which materialized for several reasons unrelated to their record).

I'm sorry, they made the playoffs a couple of times in the last decade. It's been 7 years of sucking.

Their reputation can be erased easily. The Clippers had Donald Sterling as owner and got CP3 to agree to come there. The Knicks got Melo to come there despite their terrible rep.

If they get into the playoffs the reputation will change on them quick and people will want to come like they did to the Nets.



They got CP3 and Rivers while Donald was there. If they could do that and become competitive any team should be. Of course being in LA helps even as a second fiddle but still, has there ever been worse management in sports since the browns or Charles Comiskey?

Return to Chicago Bulls