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First Round picks for sale?

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Re: First Round picks for sale? 

Post#21 » by TheFinishSniper » Tue Jul 28, 2020 7:17 am

Yes, but Reinsdorf is one selling picks.
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Re: First Round picks for sale? 

Post#22 » by troza » Tue Jul 28, 2020 8:29 am

Forgetting everything about the Bulls reputation and so on... this would be a great time to get assets.

If the Bulls want some young player that is out there besides the picks they have, they should go for it.

What would be really interesting is deals that would get us future 1st round picks :P But if it is unlikely that the Bulls will buy picks for this year draft, it is even more unlikely that they will find deals to get the ones from this year and some more for the future.
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Re: First Round picks for sale? 

Post#23 » by Showtime23 » Tue Jul 28, 2020 9:36 am

HomoSapien wrote:Yeah, my fear is that we could end up being the sellers. That said, AK seems to be able to get hits outside of the lottery, so if there was ever a time to buy it's now.


If they can get rid of Otto and Thad like with some weird TPE coupled with some nice prospects, JR will be more than willing to sell the 7th pick judging by his past cheap history with the Bulls.
I wouldnt really hate this move as long as they buy multiple late first/early seconds and draft the next Bol, Jokic.
While this draft has no superstar, there will be a lot of sleepers that might even be better than #7. Something like a Garry Harris, Nukric level player would meet my expectations.
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Re: First Round picks for sale? 

Post#24 » by wonderboy2 » Tue Jul 28, 2020 9:40 am

Showtime23 wrote:
HomoSapien wrote:Yeah, my fear is that we could end up being the sellers. That said, AK seems to be able to get hits outside of the lottery, so if there was ever a time to buy it's now.


If they can get rid of Otto and Thad like with some weird TPE coupled with some nice prospects, JR will be more than willing to sell the 7th pick judging by his past cheap history with the Bulls.
I wouldnt really hate this move as long as they buy multiple late first/early seconds and draft the next Bol, Jokic.
While this draft has no superstar, there will be a lot of sleepers that might even be better than #7. Something like a Garry Harris, Nukric level player would meet my expectations.

Bulls should be trying to dump scrubs like Sato and his 10 million dollar contract.
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Re: First Round picks for sale? 

Post#25 » by dougthonus » Tue Jul 28, 2020 12:09 pm

meekrab wrote:I think you mean 2.5M. 25 million is not an amount that an NBA team is allowed to pay in a trade.


Not in cash, but in player payments you can.

You trade player X that has 3 years 30 million but is under performing + 1st rounder for player Y whom is worthless but has 1 year 10 million left, and you have effectively sold your draft pick for 20M dollars.

The cash in this case can also mean different things to different teams. The Thunder saved 40m+ by trading Carmelo Anthony to the Hawks due to the ridiculous luxury tax payments, but the Hawks gave them Dennis Schreider whom actually was owed more total money than Anthony so both teams saved money (the Thunder an absolute ton of it) and the Thunder got a somewhat useful player.

Salary dump trades have long been popular in the NBA. The Bulls trade Hinrich + a 1st rounder for nothing, in order to open up space for two max contracts in 2010. While our goal wasn't to save money, the Wizards effectively bought our pick 9.5M dollars.

The Warriors just traded a 1st rounder + Iguodala to Memphis for nothing, effectively, Memphis bought the pick for 15M.

The two most common scenarios where draft pick prices have gone through the roof were when teams need to open cap room to get a player they want or when they want to avoid massive luxury tax payments.
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Re: First Round picks for sale? 

Post#26 » by pipfan » Tue Jul 28, 2020 12:22 pm

Doug, that is not exactly true, since you are talking about cases for teams with cap space. I am not positive of the %, but teams must spend 90% of the cap no matter what. Therefore, when a team uses cap space to eat a contract and get a pick, it's kind of like a "free pick", since the team absorbing is always rebuilding, and they "eat" a contract with $ they had to spend somehow.

As for this draft, the top is very weak, but I like the middle and I would love to add a 15-25 pick somehow
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Re: First Round picks for sale? 

Post#27 » by 85Bears » Tue Jul 28, 2020 2:33 pm

Didn’t the Bulls buy the 7th pick from Suns to draft Deng?


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Re: First Round picks for sale? 

Post#28 » by ChettheJet » Tue Jul 28, 2020 4:07 pm

I can tell just about no one bothered to look at the other post with the speculation that teams would sell their LATE FRP, rather than add a rookie contract so they could keep more open space for 2021. I can't see how any team tries to sell tickets after they sell a lottery pick for cash and tell the fans that they're trying to make the team better.

June 24, 2004 — The Bulls acquired the rights to Luol Deng, the 7th overall pick in the 2004 Draft, from Phoenix in exchange for a Bulls future conditional first round pick, the rights to the 31st pick in the second round of the 2004 Draft (Jackson Vroman), and an undisclosed amount of cash.


Well they paid something that time and PHO at least made it look like a future FRP was part of it. But the hatred of the Bulls owners runs so deep and I know because I've seen it on display so often but that's the overriding belief when yo think the Bulls would cut and run on their chance to get a player to improve the team.

With a new approach by new management who its' hoped has better insight into scouting this just looks like the time to adjust your rebuild as the NBA picture changes like no one thought. Cut loose the end of the bench that no longer has any upside, like Arci, Shaq, Valentine, Dunn and draft some guys that won't be force fed into the rotation this year but can practice, learn and develop. Then when the expiring contracts are gone, the options on others maybe not picked up the roster is revamped to attract a quality FA or two and the dog days of tanking are in the past.

Or just mope around and call Reisndorf cheap like always and suffer until next year like always
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Re: First Round picks for sale? 

Post#29 » by ChiCitySPORTS#1 » Tue Jul 28, 2020 4:33 pm

Not high on more picks tbh. I wouldn't be opposed to getting rid of our pick if its outside the top 5 or worse.

This entire roster is so young. Even our best players -- Lavine, Lauri are super young. Then you throw in WCJ, White, Gafford, etc. We need a better balance with proven vets. Can't have the entire roster be an experiment of unproven players.
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Re: First Round picks for sale? 

Post#30 » by FriedRise » Tue Jul 28, 2020 5:36 pm

We need to figure out how to develop the young talents we already have first before adding in more young players to the roster (on top of the draft picks we already have). I don't think our player development program has been able to get the most out of our young guys, and don't even get me started with the head coach who hasn't been able to put most of our players in position to succeed. I'd rather that we fix those things first before we start making more drastic changes like moving guys for even more unproven talent.

But if all it takes is just $$ that's not even mine, then by all means.
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Re: First Round picks for sale? 

Post#31 » by mack2354 » Tue Jul 28, 2020 5:37 pm

Bulls ownership has been on the hot seat for years with the #firegarpax movement. The pressure is finally off of them. I can't see them opening themselves up again to national criticism by forcing the new front office to sell our pick. That isn't happening. I would be curious to see how desperate the teams with top 5 picks are for financial relief. Say a Bulls 7th pick for the 3rd pick and a bad contract. In whats perceived to be a weak draft, there may be some push by other teams to trade back and save some dough.
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Re: First Round picks for sale? 

Post#32 » by MisterRoy » Tue Jul 28, 2020 7:33 pm

What about using our pick to get a vet? We have enough young talent. We need veteran leadership. I think we sold Thad on a bad bill of goods and shame on the Bulls previous FO for that.


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Re: First Round picks for sale? 

Post#33 » by dougthonus » Tue Jul 28, 2020 11:07 pm

pipfan wrote:Doug, that is not exactly true, since you are talking about cases for teams with cap space. I am not positive of the %, but teams must spend 90% of the cap no matter what. Therefore, when a team uses cap space to eat a contract and get a pick, it's kind of like a "free pick", since the team absorbing is always rebuilding, and they "eat" a contract with $ they had to spend somehow.

As for this draft, the top is very weak, but I like the middle and I would love to add a 15-25 pick somehow


:dontknow:

There are other times where a team dumps a guy at the deadline for someone who will expire at end of year when that player has more years left on his deal to a team that isn't under the cap.

Either way, if you want to be super literal, the most you can pay in cash is the ~5m dollars. However, teams have found ways that the benefit for the team trading the player is often vastly exceeding 5m dollars, and to give up a pick, they want a benefit for them that vastly exceeds 5m dollars.

That may not cost the team giving them the benefit that much, such as the Thunder saving 45M by trading Carmelo Anthony didn't cost the Hawks anywhere near 45M in the trade, but sometimes it does cost the team a very real amount of money.
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Re: First Round picks for sale? 

Post#34 » by nitetrain8603 » Wed Jul 29, 2020 1:45 am

The Bulls along with the Suns would be one of the few teams that sell for money.
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Re: First Round picks for sale? 

Post#35 » by TheStig » Wed Jul 29, 2020 2:10 am

dougthonus wrote:
meekrab wrote:I think you mean 2.5M. 25 million is not an amount that an NBA team is allowed to pay in a trade.


Not in cash, but in player payments you can.

You trade player X that has 3 years 30 million but is under performing + 1st rounder for player Y whom is worthless but has 1 year 10 million left, and you have effectively sold your draft pick for 20M dollars.

The cash in this case can also mean different things to different teams. The Thunder saved 40m+ by trading Carmelo Anthony to the Hawks due to the ridiculous luxury tax payments, but the Hawks gave them Dennis Schreider whom actually was owed more total money than Anthony so both teams saved money (the Thunder an absolute ton of it) and the Thunder got a somewhat useful player.

Salary dump trades have long been popular in the NBA. The Bulls trade Hinrich + a 1st rounder for nothing, in order to open up space for two max contracts in 2010. While our goal wasn't to save money, the Wizards effectively bought our pick 9.5M dollars.

The Warriors just traded a 1st rounder + Iguodala to Memphis for nothing, effectively, Memphis bought the pick for 15M.

The two most common scenarios where draft pick prices have gone through the roof were when teams need to open cap room to get a player they want or when they want to avoid massive luxury tax payments.

Bulls should have been doing this during the rebuild instead of signing people like Jabari Parker and then having to dump him.
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Re: First Round picks for sale? 

Post#36 » by TheStig » Wed Jul 29, 2020 2:11 am

nitetrain8603 wrote:The Bulls along with the Suns would be one of the few teams that sell for money.

As much as I kid about JR. No one is selling a top 10 pick.
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Re: First Round picks for sale? 

Post#37 » by dougthonus » Wed Jul 29, 2020 5:04 pm

TheStig wrote:Bulls should have been doing this during the rebuild instead of signing people like Jabari Parker and then having to dump him.


The opportunities to do so have been really poor recently though. The amount of money people were looking to dump for picks was extremely high.
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Re: First Round picks for sale? 

Post#38 » by Little Nathan » Wed Jul 29, 2020 6:55 pm

The Suns are selling their G-League team to Detroit. Sarver is out-reinsdorfing the Reinsdorfs for now. Though I wouldn't be surprised to see the Windy City Bulls being sold tomorrow now.
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Re: First Round picks for sale? 

Post#39 » by TheStig » Wed Jul 29, 2020 7:08 pm

dougthonus wrote:
TheStig wrote:Bulls should have been doing this during the rebuild instead of signing people like Jabari Parker and then having to dump him.


The opportunities to do so have been really poor recently though. The amount of money people were looking to dump for picks was extremely high.

Yes, it was a sellers market but deals were there. I think they could have been more aggressive about going for them and bottoming out instead of the moves that haven't led to real success like signing Parker, Young, Sato...... I'd rather have a late teens early 20's pick than Parker anyday.
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Re: First Round picks for sale? 

Post#40 » by Leslie Forman » Wed Jul 29, 2020 7:20 pm

nitetrain8603 wrote:The Bulls along with the Suns would be one of the few teams that sell for money.

Hey now, don't count out the Rockets and their new awful owner!

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