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Did we give up on Cameron Payne too early?

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Re: Did we give up on Cameron Payne too early? 

Post#61 » by Michael Jackson » Thu Jun 3, 2021 1:09 pm

ArtMorte wrote:Bump.

Wish we had kept him.



Honestly don’t think he gets better here. He needed to move on to shine, Phoenix was a good fit for him to grow. He was awful here and the coaching was not helping. He went to a good organization and found a role.
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Re: Did we give up on Cameron Payne too early? 

Post#62 » by ChettheJet » Thu Jun 3, 2021 2:01 pm

Excelling as a backup to Chris Paul is different from being expected to start for the Chicago Bulls.
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Re: Did we give up on Cameron Payne too early? 

Post#63 » by TheJordanRule » Thu Jun 3, 2021 2:04 pm

Those of you, like ArtMorte, who thought it would be best to keep him have been undeniably proven right by time. On the other hand, Cam Payne’s ascent may have been aided by things like mentorship from Chris Paul, a more clearly defined role with his new team, and playing time he wouldn’t have received with us. It’s fun to wonder what Cam Payne would have looked like on our roster, but I’m not grieving over his loss because he looked like such trash here most of the time.
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Re: Did we give up on Cameron Payne too early? 

Post#64 » by Wingy » Thu Jun 3, 2021 2:06 pm

Michael Jackson wrote:
ArtMorte wrote:Bump.

Wish we had kept him.



Honestly don’t think he gets better here. He needed to move on to shine, Phoenix was a good fit for him to grow. He was awful here and the coaching was not helping. He went to a good organization and found a role.


Are they a good org? The article I’ve kept in my sig. It’s Reinsdorf & co...and their owner Sarver. They’re in a period of hitting on their draft picks, and then getting Chris Paul. Much like Donald Sterling’s LA Clippers.

I think it’s more about him being bounced from the league, and seeing his basketball life flash before his eyes.

The only thing the Bulls could’ve done differently is to be the team to give him yet another chance.
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Re: Did we give up on Cameron Payne too early? 

Post#65 » by Chicago-Bull-E » Thu Jun 3, 2021 2:18 pm

Chris Paul is quite a force and has proven it in a variety of ways. Happy for Cam, but I'd attribute at least some of his success to Paul.
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Re: Did we give up on Cameron Payne too early? 

Post#66 » by WICKED17 » Thu Jun 3, 2021 5:56 pm

No, he was a straight scrub while playing for the Bulls
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Re: Did we give up on Cameron Payne too early? 

Post#67 » by HomoSapien » Thu Jun 3, 2021 6:36 pm

No.

1.) We don't have a Chris Paul to mentor him, so I'm not sure if he develops the same way.

2.) Although he's playing well, to invest three more seasons than we already did to get this version of Cam Payne isn't exactly the most earth-shattering/game-changing move. Is he significantly better than Coby White or Tomas Satoransky? Probably not enough to warrant such a long-term investment.

Regardless, if we did make a mistake, he's an upcoming free-agent so we'd have a shot at bringing him back without going through all the development headaches.
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Re: Did we give up on Cameron Payne too early? 

Post#68 » by sco » Thu Jun 3, 2021 8:15 pm

So say we are an over the cap team. Who would folks want on a 3 year up to MLE deal - Rose or Payne?
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Re: Did we give up on Cameron Payne too early? 

Post#69 » by TheJordanRule » Thu Jun 3, 2021 8:29 pm

sco wrote:So say we are an over the cap team. Who would folks want on a 3 year up to MLE deal - Rose or Payne?


Well, Payne played like such trash on our roster, and only played 18 mpg game with the Suns this year, but his PER 36 numbers look gaudy-- 16.8 ppg, 7.2 assists per game, 1.2 steals, along with elite efficiency (a TS % of 60.2-- above 60 for the second year in a row)! It might be crucial for our front office to figure out how much of this change in production is due to simply playing with Chris Paul, and how much of it is due to understanding the game better. Isn't this what FOs are for? They need to figure this out. I greatly prefer Devonte Graham because he has been productive when given a much larger role. A lot of these super subs fade when they're asked to shoulder more of the load.
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Re: Did we give up on Cameron Payne too early? 

Post#70 » by Leslie Forman » Thu Jun 3, 2021 8:49 pm

This has nothing to do with Chris Paul. He looked good as a rookie in OKC before the injuries. Seems he is finally back to 100%, which this franchise was never going to give him enough time to get to.
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Re: Did we give up on Cameron Payne too early? 

Post#71 » by TheFinishSniper » Thu Jun 3, 2021 8:59 pm

I dont wanna deal with more payne. Watching him took decades of my love for love of game of basketball. That's how terrible this $"#(/ man looked and played with Bulls. And I dont care what he is done in Suns jersey. He should never be able to wear Bulls uniform on just that fact again.
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Re: Did we give up on Cameron Payne too early? 

Post#72 » by Michael Jackson » Thu Jun 3, 2021 9:09 pm

Wingy wrote:
Michael Jackson wrote:
ArtMorte wrote:Bump.

Wish we had kept him.



Honestly don’t think he gets better here. He needed to move on to shine, Phoenix was a good fit for him to grow. He was awful here and the coaching was not helping. He went to a good organization and found a role.


Are they a good org? The article I’ve kept in my sig. It’s Reinsdorf & co...and their owner Sarver. They’re in a period of hitting on their draft picks, and then getting Chris Paul. Much like Donald Sterling’s LA Clippers.

I think it’s more about him being bounced from the league, and seeing his basketball life flash before his eyes.

The only thing the Bulls could’ve done differently is to be the team to give him yet another chance.


As far as medical they were one of the best. They saved a few careers. The mishmosh of Hoiberg and Boylens and even this year with Billy wasn’t a great spot for a man trying to find his way in the league. The Bulls have made their players worse in recent years. WCJ, Lauri, Coby all declined. Just don’t see Cam blossoming under this regime at that time period. Next year maybe if Billy gets everything in place but up until that we were not a better place than Phoenix. Chris Paul helped a lot I am sure, Ayton progressed better this year than any of our recent pics. Can also wasn’t really a miss like Dinwiddie was, Payne got a fair shake here, just couldn’t make it happen, but the skills he does have have shown this year... we have to still see if it is sustainable but I don’t think that happens if he stays in Chicago.
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Re: Did we give up on Cameron Payne too early? 

Post#73 » by SalmonsSuperfan » Thu Jun 3, 2021 9:09 pm

HomoSapien wrote:No.

1.) We don't have a Chris Paul to mentor him, so I'm not sure if he develops the same way.

2.) Although he's playing well, to invest three more seasons than we already did to get this version of Cam Payne isn't exactly the most earth-shattering/game-changing move. Is he significantly better than Coby White or Tomas Satoransky? Probably not enough to warrant such a long-term investment.

Regardless, if we did make a mistake, he's an upcoming free-agent so we'd have a shot at bringing him back without going through all the development headaches.

some credit goes to CP3, but he was on this upward trajectory before CP3 joined the team, so can't put it all on him. I was thinking the same thing, that CP3 has a history of making his backups look better than they are...but I went back and looked, and the only player I can think of that fits this description is Darren Collison who looked great as New Orleans's backup, then had a nice career but slightly underwhelming relative to what we might have expected after his rookie season (especially when CP3 got hurt and Collison finished off the season. Think he averaged like 15/11 or something). This is to say, I don't think CP3 is some point guard whisperer but he's definitely a steadying presence for any team.


I don't think we really missed out on Cam though. He proved himself to be an NBA player but it's not like he solves our point guard woes. Like you say, I don't know that he's actually better than Sato or what Coby is projected to be (or even how he played following his return to the starting lineup).
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Re: Did we give up on Cameron Payne too early? 

Post#74 » by TheJordanRule » Thu Jun 3, 2021 10:14 pm

Leslie Forman wrote:This has nothing to do with Chris Paul. He looked good as a rookie in OKC before the injuries. Seems he is finally back to 100%, which this franchise was never going to give him enough time to get to.


That's not my perception at all, but here are some facts that may support your narrative:

1) He's always played 40 games or less every season except his rookie year, and this year
2) RIGHT after he left us the second time, he only played 9 games and 8 games the following two years respectively.

Personally, I'd argue that a lot of these DNPs were due to Cam just straight sucking, which put coaches in a position where they had to be careful about how much PT they gave him, or avoid him altogether if that were possible.

That said, your perspective and the surrounding supporting facts can't be easily ruled out, much to my dissatisfaction... :banghead:
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Re: Did we give up on Cameron Payne too early? 

Post#75 » by 2018C3 » Fri Jun 4, 2021 1:20 am

I think all guys develop at different rates. Some manage to put together at a earlier age, others take time to reach there peaks.

Payne has turned into a serviceable player, I don't think he will ever be a star. He was pretty lousy with us, I do not regret moving on. At the time he was moved, I was not eager to wait any longer.

18 minutes, 2.4 rebounds, 3.6 assists, .3 blocks, 8.4 points is decent, but also replaceable. And if we had to wait another two years for those stats, it was worth taking a shot on another player.

If you look at are 2018-19 Payne, and todays Payne, the only difference is one more rebound, one more steal, and a additional three pointer. Is that worth two more years of development time?
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Re: Did we give up on Cameron Payne too early? 

Post#76 » by kulaz3000 » Fri Jun 4, 2021 1:25 am

There are players like Payne who develop much slower and later in their careers, so no, to invest more time on him to wait for him in HOPES that he would develop would have been a mistake.

I mean, we did the same thing with Felicio in many ways, and on the flip side, sometimes it doesn't work out as you hope for. And investing all those seasons and money on Felicio has been a massive waste of time and money.

Absolutely zero regrets. Same with letting go of Derrick when we did, as much as he did for us a franchise it was time to move on when we did, and he even got a stage where he was thinking of quitting basketball all together, before he finally had a resurgence in his career with Detroit.

Sometimes players simply need to go through different things, bounce around a little for them to get it, and sometimes they bounce around and are simply out of the league. But just because they don't get it with OUR team in particular, I don't really think of those situations as lost opportunities.
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Re: Did we give up on Cameron Payne too early? 

Post#77 » by waffle » Fri Jun 4, 2021 3:31 pm

I always felt weird because I kinda liked him when he was here.

Glad to see him getting some success
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Re: Did we give up on Cameron Payne too early? 

Post#78 » by GoBlue72391 » Fri Jun 4, 2021 5:44 pm

Our only mistake in regards to Cam Payne was trading Taj for him.

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Re: Did we give up on Cameron Payne too early? 

Post#79 » by PlayerUp » Fri Jun 4, 2021 6:12 pm

Reality is Gar/Pax had 0 clue what they were doing at the PG position. They got lucky with Rose. Outside of Rose, they passed on so many talented PGs mainly for an abundance of low ceiling bigman.
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Re: Did we give up on Cameron Payne too early? 

Post#80 » by Jeffster81 » Fri Jun 4, 2021 6:27 pm

Cam Payne played his way out of Chicago. It's as simple as that. The Bulls gave up on him at the right time. Glad he is having success in PHX but I don't miss him in Chicago.
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